muralidhar_das

Not only are there an unlimited number of souls, but before this universe existed there were other universes filled with billions of billions of souls. There have been so many previous universes, in fact, that the number of them is said to be unlimited. You asked Every soul is beginningless (in the Sanskrit language -- anadi ). A soul can be liberated or it can incarnate in a physical body. Indeed, a physically incarnate soul can attain liberation, but then fall back down into physical life once again. A liberated soul is free from disturbances caused by the transformations of material existence - the liberated soul does not identify himself with a physical body that transforms from youthfulness to maturity, to old age. The liberated soul understands the eternal nature of the Self and they taste the nectar of immortality (amrta). In his commentary to verse 2.2.186 of Sri Brhadbhagavatamrtam, Srila Sanatan Goswami quotes this verse by Adi Shankaracharya, translation: “Even the liberated beings assume a form and worship the Lord in his pastimes”. Srila Sanatan Goswami then quotes Srimad Bhagavatam (6.14.5) which says: that is, “The liberated and perfected souls are engaged in service of Narayana (Vishnu).” Srila Sanatan Goswami then asks himself: “If liberated souls didn't have forms then how could they engage in the Lord's service?” He gives this answer: Translation: Even those who have merged into the Lord have a dormant human form [nri deha]. When souls are merged in Brahman they still have individual consciousness but they identify themself with the One known as Brahman. In one way of thinking (called Advaita) there is only one Self that is brahman, and all the individuals in Brahman are One. But in another way of thinking, as explained by Sanatana Goswami in the statements I just presented, Brahman is a Unity of many disembodied souls who are merged in a single thought technically called "sat-chit-ananda", or in other words "eternal-consiousness-[of]-bliss". Brahman is like an ocean of bliss - are there drops of water in the ocean or is the ocean just one pool of water? Some say it is One (Advaita) others say there is diversity. <o:p></o:p> Souls can arise from the Unity of Brahman and develop ears and mouths to sing and hear the Names of Hari, or souls can arise from Brahman and incarnate in the material world. Souls who enter Vaikuntha and become associates of Lord Hari never return to the material world Krishna says in the Gita: <o:p></o:p>

Cuba is not free. Especially Guantanamo Bay in Cuba.

Good to see this. If you wanted to preach about Krishna in Mecca or Jerusalem would the local people allow that?

Sometimes people get attacked for the most inane reasons I don't agree with Srimate Syamarani's ideas, but gawd... she deserves some respect, that's for sure.

It occurred to me that the usual translation of statements in the Puranas is that the translators say Varaha lifted the earth from the water. But has the earth planet come from water, or has land emerged from water?

Quote: <table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Originally Posted by Murali_Mohan_das ...and, in the Dasavatara Stotaram, one can (if so inclined) see a Divine Evolution of the Species. The Lord comes as fish, tortoise, boar, etc. in ever-increasingly complex forms. </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> from "Sri Chaitanya's Teachings" by Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura. I read a reference someplace, showing that this "ten stages" of evolution was initially proposed by an English scientist living in India, and that the idea was picked up by Thakura Bhaktivinode and later by Saraswati Thakur. Has anyone else seen the reference to that scientist? I remember reading his whole ten stages info on Wiki. He was a nineteenth century scientist and a socialist.

the earth arose from the ocean through the power of varaha life arose from the ocean, from the womb of the oceanic brahman.

I was studying Brhadbhagavatamrtam by Srila Sanatana Goswami, looking at the things he says about the svarup of the jiva-atma. I found that Sanatana had said that the jiva has senses and sense organs such as the prototype ear and nose, even when merged in Brahman (((sleeping atma-vigrahas who are not on earth but in Vaikuntha, please stop reading now!!! what I say after this will be incomprehensible to you))). Because the soul is consciousness he can manifest from his subtle [astral or mental] body a nose, ear, eyes etc in order to experience a reality outside of brahmaloka (nirvisesha brahman). According to Sankhya, with the description of 24 elements of creation, etc., SB 3.26.35 etc.. the sky or space is produced from mind, and when the sky is produced the ear which hears sound moving in the sky also manifests. Anyhow, I was thinking about this and about something someone from the Gaudiya Math said: Where Guru Maharaj speaks of the sun and moon he means the DEVA who is a celestial body or celestial being; he doesn't mean the physical sun and moon which are the bodies that become manifest from tamoguna (earth,water-hydrogen-oxygen,fire). And it ocurred to me that maybe there is a third option for the creation of life on this planet besides creationism and evolution through chance. It occurred to me that maybe little minds inside of little embryos that are first a single cell and are then dividing and sub-dividing, maybe these little minds emerging from the universal mind of "mahat-tattva" are the causes of evolution. Personally, I do believe souls in ignorance enter into water and then wriggle like sperms or tadpoles and evolve to a higher stage of life. Some only have a limited creative drive and they form less complex bodies, but others with backing from a higher consciousness, those souls may conceive a more complex "eye" and "ear" that will evolve on their head. So then, from the sperm of a rishi like Kasyapa there can be one son who evolves a bird head (Garuda) and another who has a snake head (Vasuki). anyhow, just some random thoughts.... and you creationists and guruvani (the destructionist), don't bother trying to drag me into debates about Creationism because I'm a committed evolutionist (of some sort). Theoretically, I'm not opposed to the idea that living creatures can arise from slime that evolves from chemicals on the seashore. What is the sea, anyhow? Mother ocean? Prakriti? And besides that, a human baby grows from some slime that comes from a man's body. What interests me more, however, is the mental energy [mind-stuff] within that slime which is trying to evolve into a "happy" state of mind.

Thanks for that Mahak I've always appreciated your perspective too. BTW, I was with Tusta for a few years. So we have some history in common.

Posted on dandavats.com::::: In the final paragraph of his purport to Nectar of Instruction verse 5 His Divine Grace says: “Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has given some practical hints to the effect that an uttama-adhikārī Vaiṣṇava can be recognized by his ability to convert many fallen souls to Vaiṣṇavism. One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikārī. A neophyte Vaiṣṇava or a Vaiṣṇava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikārī as a spiritual master.” Unfortunately many people do not seek to find a highly advanced Guru but instead the accept someone who is popular or regarded as “advanced” within their region. Sometimes the disciple also thinks that by sadhana he can make advancement, or that by associating with many Vaishnavas he will get their blessings and make advancement. What then might happen, hypothetically speaking, if someone takes diksa from a kanistha Vaishnava who is doing a good imitation of being a Vaishnava on a higher level? Might the disciple later regret that he accepted the person who his friends said was “advanced”? Do things like this happen, ever? <!-- end .comments-middle --> Comment posted by Murali Das on June 10th, 2007

This thread wasn't meant to be about ISKCON anyhow. It's about Gaudiya Math, which any ISKCON baba will tell you is separate from ISKCON. Kshambuddhi wanted everyone to remember all the bad things that somebody he adores said about Bhaktivilas Tirtha Maharaj. What to do? If you look at the things I've written on this thread about ISKCON I haven't said things that are not true. Sadly, the fact that ISKCON is creating a bad image is true.

Ha! Prove that! The development work at Govinda Kunda and other things done at the Math is mostly paid for by Bharati Maharaj in Russia, who was previously the owner of one of the largest Telco companies in Russia. Other ashrams are mostly supported by donations from families. Devotees of SCSMath have a lot of different ideas from the devotees of Sripad Narayana Maharaja but one thing we have in common is that we don't make money from "the pick". Certain attitudes, such as the idea that the individuals are more important than "temples" are shared ideals.

So true.

Sannyasis falling down, taking drugs or getting laid, that's not the big problem I'm seeing in front of me. It's the big public scandals, like when it was on TV that when Bhavananda was at the airport he had to get an "internal examination" if you know what I mean, to see if Bhavananda had any rolls of money concealed in his private parts. They didn't find any that time. But the news report said that the police had good reason to believe that Bhavananda was leader of an organization that was involved in illegal activities and that he was taking money out of the country illegally etc.. He did drive a Jaguar car, after all -- not a good look. And the bullying of ISKCON devotees against all other sects such as people who do yoga (the mayavadis) or who are mere vegetarians (even pidgeons are vegetarians), that kind of egotistical bullying has created a very negative opinion in many people's minds. What to speak of the "wigs" and books catastrophe that was played out in every shopping centre and other place that large numbers of people congregate. Ordinary folks think this type of organization is weird.

You are such an arrogant person. Unbelievable! According to Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura, this Bhaktivilasa Tirtha is his eternal servant Bimala Manjari. Saraswati Thakura wrote that in a letter. It is there in print, for the world to see.

You are right to some extent. But it's true that nearly everywhere I go, my kids' school, or when I go out distributing books, etc. , I have to tell people I'm not a part of that cult. Really, I'm telling the truth here. People I meet think of ISKCON in that way. But you are right about the debt. And that the ideal of ISKCON is beautiful. It's just that I'm not living in an ideal world I'm living in the town where Bhav's used to sit on a big throne and where you used to see scary posters with Bhav's photo on it and the big print words "THIS MAN SEEKS GOD HE CAN SHOW GOD TO YOU". People in my town know about Bhav's, the money making scams, the wigs on shaved heads, the dishonesty and the rest of what happened. It is no secret.

ISKCON is irrelevant to me. Most devotees I know, including many disciples of past ISKCON gurus such as Tamal and Bhaktisvarupa Damodara Maharaj l know feel the same way. Actually ISKCON isn't totally irrelvant. It is more of an embarassment. For me the big problem is that if I walk out my front door wearing the tilak of my Parampara and go travelling around, talking to people on the street or on trains, I always have do deal with the inevitable question "are you a Hare Krishna" or "are you with ISKCON". I always answer "No". Nearly every new (white bodied) person I have tried to talk to about Krishna and Mahaprabhu ask me about the HK's. Ordinary people think the HK's are a cult. I don't disagree with that conclusion. Indian people are more sympathetic to ISKCON but maybe they are naive. I feel embarassed when people mention the Hare Krishna's because ordinary people know a lot about the Hare Krishna's and what they know is not good. What they know is true, but not good.

Finn Masden makes a number of fundamental errors in his presentation. 1) He didn't grasp the real status of Kunja Da (Bhakti Vilasa Tirtha Maharaj) within the Gaudiya Math of Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura. 2) He failed to mention the sexual fall of Anantavasudev 3) He neglected to mention that after Anantavasudeva's fall, perhaps in 1940, many of the leading sannyasis, brahmacaris and married devotee supporters left the Gaudiya Math. 4) Masden states that Anantavasudeva took "samnyas from Rupavilasa Brahmachari with the sannyas name Bhakti Prasad Puri Goswami". How a brahmacari could give sannyasa is not explained. He also said "Rupavilasa Brahmachari .. later became Bhagavat Maharaja and acharya from 1982-1993". I met Bhagavat Maharaj when he was Acharya of Bagh Bazaar Gaudiya Mission. I spent about a half hour talking with him in 1983. 5) Masden's poorly researched article does not provide other important details about the Gaudiya Math breakup, such as the fact that when the sannyasis and brahmacaris left the Gaudiya Math in 1940 they did not join Kunja Babu (Bhaktivilasa Tirtha) because they also felt Kunja Babu had acted in a disruptive way when he walked out of the first GBC meeting. Masden really had only a very small understanding of the complexity of the situation that developed after the disappearance of Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura.

The war is over. And before the war, Kshamabuddhi, your revered Guru Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada approached Srila Bhakti Vilasa Tirtha Maharaj and asked him for sannyasa. Tirtha Maharaj said no. He gave some conditions and if they weren't fulfilled the answer was no. After that Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada went to Keshava Maharaj and took sannyasa and went to America. After going to the USA Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada performed a miracle and spread the seeds of Krishna bhakti all over the world. But before going to America he had not performed any miracles in the almost 25 years that had passed since the time of the disappearance of Srila Saraswati Thakura. In fact, Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada had not become famous in the Gaudiya Math in those 25 years because of any grand SUCCESSES because he had not had any successes at all. His godbrothers offered him respect but he had not shown his Acharya-Leela then, so nobody knew anything about that. He was not an Acharya, he was an enthusiastic servant of his Guru - but he had not done any noteworthy service in those 25 years. In the same time period, Bhakti Saranga Goswami, Srila Keshava Maharaja, Sripad Madhava Maharaj, my Guru Maharaj, Yajabara Maharaj, etc. had opened lots of temples and initiated tens of thousands of disciples. The attached image is a picture of the Vaishnava Acharyas who left the Gaudiya Math in 1940 and began preaching independently from the Gaudiya Math & Gaudiya Mission. The photo was taken at the time of the grand meeting of Vaishnavas at the home of Sakhi Charan Raya in Kolkata. They were seriously dedicated to spreading the Mission of Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura, and they succeeded. The Gurus pictured in this image have initiated literally tens of thousands of devotees. Srila Abhay Charan De Prabhu became affilated with this group of devotees for a while. A temple was opened above the home and chemist shop of Abhay Charan Prabhu in Sitabannerjee Lane Kolkata, and the boy in the right side of the picture who is holding a mrdanga became the "manager" and Pujari at that temple. That boy with the mrdanga also became the first distributor of "Back to Godhead" magazine. That boy is now an Acharya and he has initated thousands of disciples. Anyhow, we often hear ISKCONites criticizing the Godbrothers of Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, saying those godbrothers had little success in their preaching. But if the amassing of "men and money" is the criteria that you judge success by, what sort of devotee are you? Kanistha. This is the truth.

Mahaprabhu said: Kshamabuddhi I don't know why you refuse to follow this most elementary instruction. You are a lonely many today, with few friends. Nothing will change, if you don't change.

Yes I do believe this statement made by Srila Saraswati Thakura

<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Quote: <table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> "The secretary of the Sri Gaudiya Math, Sripada Kunjabihari Vidyabhusasa is The central jewel in the Sri Gaudiya Math’s jewelled necklace of devotees. </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->

Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura Prabhupada ordered that these words be inscribed on the wall of Bagh Bazaar Gaudiya Math. Kshamabuddhi you may not like to hear that Saraswati Thakura had these words inscribed on the wall but that is what happened. Kunjabihari Prabhu is: These are the words of Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura. Your own Guru, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, even he had enough respect to go and ask Kunja Prabhu (Bhaktivilasa Tirtha) to give him sannyasa. To say that Kunja Babu was merely a manager, as Masden does, is pure ignorance. Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura said to Kunja Babu that he is eternally connected to him and that in Vraja Leela this Kunja Babu is "Bimala Manjari". 25 years ago I realized it was wrong to say anything bad about this exalted devotee, Kunjabihari das Vidyabhusasa, and I've never been swayed even once since then to rejoin the camp of people who abuse him.

This is amazing. I was listening to that talk about Judas only yesterday

When I went there on Guru Maharaj's instruction, so I could have darshan of the room and bed where Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura breathed his last breath in this world, Guru Maharaj told me and my godbrother "you cannot offer incense at the alter there". Why? Because Anantavasudeva's picture is on the alter