muralidhar_das

Hmmm... the servant of the great god Jehovah has spoken! Misrepresenting me..... I quoted Gita, which is saying there is one individual soul in each body. Indeed, there are millions of DIFFERENT souls in different bodies. All souls and bodies are not "ONE" - I never suggested such a thing. <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Quote: <table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> as the sun alone illuminates all this universe, so does the living entity, one within the body, illuminate the entire body by consciousness. (Gita 13. 34) </td> </tr> </tbody></table> I said I think trees may not be individuals since they show no signs of ego consciousness, even though they are alive. Maybe they are all leaves of a greater thing - nature. Every living thing in this material world is part of that tree of life. I said there are [individual] souls in mountains In this quote from Sri Garga Samhita we see that the mountains are personalities and that Govardhana was born from the mountain Oronacal. The mountains moved, and came to see Govardhana. All of this happened - in the ocean of eternal consciousness called Brahman. Srila Bhakti Rakshak Sridhar Dev Goswami Maharaj: <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->

Wow this poor girl is having a difficult time lately! I know it isn't realistic but maybe she should stay away from cars for a while. It looks like the position of the god of automobiles in her horoscope is not good right now.

I believe there is one soul in a human body and that the cells are not individual jivas. Worms in your belly are a different matter. This then brings up the interesting fact that blood cells are kinda independent entities that bubble around inside our arteries and veins (and brain). If blood cells are not separate jivas, then maybe it can be argued that bacteria in the earth are not individual jivas but parts of "mother earth". I tend to think this way about things. I tend to think that there is a spirit in a forest, but that individual trees are not separate beings but instead hairs of the body of the forest. I will find the Bhagavat verses to support this, if someone wants. Pure speculation on my part, I admit. But this is the way I tend to see things. Trees don't seem to exhibit an individuality or ego, but then according to the Upanishads trees have feelings since trees bleed when you cut them. But are they conscious of their body or are trees in a state of consciousness like the deep sleep of a man who is unaware of sense perceptions entering his ears and nose? Even mountains are said to be souls in the Veda, and apparently the souls in mountains are jivas who are yogis meditating on "Earth" chakra. This, I think, is Srila Sridhar Maharaj's opinion (I base this on the fact that he talked about this sort of thing but I didn't get to speak with him and clarify things).

Goswami came to Sydney a few months ago

Yeah things are all perfect in this world. Especially at the American hospital in Germany where your war wounded get fitted with artificial arms and legs.

Ummm... please provide me with evidence that Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada is "the current link"

I believe you are wrong here.

http://www.scsmath.org/memories/02/020703b_sannyas.html Left to right: Sripad Bhakti Rasik Bhagavat Maharaj, Sripad Bhakti Jivan Parivrajak Maharaj, Sripad Bhakti Kiran Giri Maharaj, Sripad Bhakti Madhurya Mangal Maharaj, Sripad Bhakti Sudhanya Niskinchan Maharaj, Sripad Bhakti Dayita Damodar Maharaj, Sripad Bhakti Amal Paramahamsa Maharaj. Sripad Bhakti Prapanna Tirtha Maharaj is on the other side of the camera (he is taking the photo). Here is another one that you might find interesting Babhru Prabhu Saint Petersburgh - 2 August 2002 Left to right: Siddhanti Maharaj (Chidananda), Janardan Maharaj (Panca Dravida), Acharyya Maharaj and Srila Gurudev Gurudev will be back in St Petersburgh in a few weeks. He is just about to embark on his latest world tour - Bankok (new temple), Russia, Italy, London (new temple), California, Mexico (new temple at Veracruz) and Venezuela (the place where they devotees make the BEST KIRTAN in the world).

You may think that the rules of a corporation can save you but I choose to believe in the gracious love of an empowered, living Guru.

Srila Bhakti Saranga Goswami Maharaj most certainly did initiate before Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati departed. His first disciple was an Australian man! He brought that man back to India so he could meet Prabhupada Srila Saraswati Thakura. The sannyasi third from the left in this picture is an initiated, sannyasi disciple of Sripad Goswami Maharaj. This sannyasi is a Guru in Bengal. His name is Sripad Bhakti Kiran Giri Maharaj. Here in this picture you see him surrounded by disciples of Srila Bhakti Sundar Govinda Dev Goswami Maharaj and Srila Sridhar Maharaj, at the Kolkata Math. This sannyasi Sripad Bhakti Kiran Giri Maharaj is the leader of the Parikrama Sankirtan of Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math for the past 40 years.

Commentary to the Hare Krishna Mahamantra by Srila Bhakti Saranga Goswami Maharaj:

It is this thread http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/spiritual-discussions/37011-physically-present-spiritual-master-required-34.html For some strange reason it didn't appear on the list. Then I saw it was way down the list. Very odd. I had just posted the article below, then I found the thread was "disappeared" when the page reloaded - I was put onto the main menu. =========================== Gaudiya Vaishnava Theology by Srila Bhakti Saranga Goswami Maharaj <o:p> </o:p> The Hindu Scriptures teach us, according to Sri Krishna Chaitanya, nine principle doctrines:<o:p></o:p> <!--[if !supportLists]-->1)<!--[endif]-->Hari (the Almighty) is One without a second.<o:p></o:p> <!--[if !supportLists]-->2)<!--[endif]-->He is full of infinite power.<o:p></o:p> <!--[if !supportLists]-->3)<!--[endif]-->He is the ocean of Rasa (beauty and sweetness).<o:p></o:p> <!--[if !supportLists]-->4)<!--[endif]-->The individual souls, the living beings, are His separated parts.<o:p></o:p> <!--[if !supportLists]-->5)<!--[endif]-->Certain souls are engrossed in Maya, the illusory energy of the Lord.<o:p></o:p> <!--[if !supportLists]-->6)<!--[endif]-->Certain other souls are released from the bondage of Maya.<o:p></o:p> <!--[if !supportLists]-->7)<!--[endif]-->All spiritual and material phenomena are connected to the Lord but distinct from Him.<o:p></o:p> <!--[if !supportLists]-->8)<!--[endif]-->Bhakti, or devotion to God, is the only means of attaining the final and highest objective of life, the attainment of spiritual existence.<o:p></o:p> <!--[if !supportLists]-->9)<!--[endif]-->Prema, or holy love for Krishna, is alone the final and highest objective of life.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> This Theistic vision is not attainable by the theories of mundane science. It is, however, not opposed to a truly rational conclusion or understanding. It satisfies, fully, the needs of our real moral sense. It floods our life with peace, joy and hope, freeing us from all evils and solving the mystery of pain, vice and death.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> There can be no real intellectual assent to the truths of Theism without giving our whole higher selves to God in the fullest trust, love and obedience. Then only are we really convinced, when we actually realise the imperative necessity for ourselves and for all animation of attaining the spiritual service of Krishna, who is all-love. The process of Bhakti (devotion) then is no longer a mundane theory or a set of mundane propositions but instead something that brings about the complete dedication of all we do and think and say to the constant service of Transcendence. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> We should begin to allot some time and energy to learn of the Absolute Truth, revealed by the scriptures through the living scripture, by which I mean the sadhu (saintly devotee of God). The more we practice associating with saints, the more we can detect our hallucinations in our current conceptions of God; and our faith will rise higher and higher till it reaches the Divine Holy Feet of Krishna. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> When this faith in Krishna is kindled in the doubting heart and we really seek to be enlightened in perfect humility, Krishna sends to us a good preceptor to guide us in the path of the Absolute. I am engaged today in carrying out the precepts of my Divine Master, Sri Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur. I am trying in my humble way to explain religion as I have heard from his holy lips. Hearing about true religion is the one needful thing for both the theists and the atheists. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Religion means the spiritual process by which our souls are re-united to the Absolute Lord by the bond of his eternal willing service, which is the proper function of each individual soul. Religion establishes our relationship with God. It provides a means to go deeper into the profundity of the Divine. And it leads to our attaining holy love – the supreme purpose of spritual pursuits. Religion is harmonious and universal. God is one without a second, and His religion also is one for humanity as a whole, though exoterically or morphologically it may vary in certain external circumstances. The esoterical or morphological aspect of all true religion is one and the same, viz., Divine Love. And that religion which warrants the highest loving devotion to God is the best of all and should be followed by all intelligent human beings.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Philosophically, our eternal self is something other than the physical body made of earth, water, fire, air and ether, and the subtle body made of mind, intelligence and perverted ego. The soul is a spiritual entity quite distinct from the physical body and the astral body made of matter – either in gross or subtle forms. The soul is the proprietor of these two properties, the gross and subtle bodies, which are perishable. The soul is neither born nor does it die. The soul has everlasting existence. It is exempt from liability to extinction. Under the influence of Maya, the illusory energy of God, which manifests itself in the shape of this mundane world, the soul is again and again vested with a corporeal frame and each conditioned soul passes after death into a series of new existences in heaven and hell or in the bodies of men, beasts, birds, insects, or plants on earth, where it is rewarded or punished for all the deeds committed in a former life. The soul may soar so high as to become a divine being fully conscious of his own true nature as an eternal servant of the Supreme Lord in the spiritual kingdom, or it may descend so low as to appear no better than sticks and stones.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> The destiny of each individual soul is thus made or marred by himselft. As spiritual beings, all individual souls possess the faculty of free will divinely bestowed upon them. They can abuse this gift of God or they can make the best use of it. The Supreme Lord does not interfere with His gift, viz., the soul’s freedom of choice. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> All individual souls though intrinsically of the same nature with God are but infinitessimal Absolutes when compared with the Infinite Absolute Personality and are therefore servants of God.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Just as the rays of the sun are always associated with the sun, so also, as associated parts of the Absolute-Sun, all individual souls are expected to exist with the Eternal Existent Lord, to know the Omniscient Lord and to enjoy Infinite Bliss by eternally rendering loving service to Him. But, for the transgression of deviation away from Him through misuse of their free will, the external potency of God, Maya, suppresses them by way of showing a diversity of existence, in the same way as rays of sunlight streaming away from the sun get their normal aspect of brightness diminished and suppressed when they are reflecting upon dark material things. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> The natural function of rendering eternal service to God which is common to all souls lies hidden under the cover of manifold miseries when they want to lord it over the universe instead of serving the Supreme Lord. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> To explain further, just as the luminous substance of the sun appears as 1) the solar disk, 2) the individual rays, and 3) the reflection; so also the inconceivable power of the Absolute-Sun manifests Himself in three ways: 1) the Internal Potency; 2) the Intermediate Potency, and 3) the External Potency. The Intermediate Potency resolves into individual souls like us, which correspond to the individual rays of sunlight. The External Potency or Maya corresponds to the reflection (as when light reflects upon the surface of the sea). And the Internal Potency corresponds to the solar disk, the Spiritual Sun itself – the kingdom of God. The orb of the sun contains the individual rays, yet the rays are found to be scattered away from the sun; similarly the individual souls, though ultimately contained within the same Reservoir of Light (God) are scattered away by reason of their being averse to the service of God from beginningless time. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Religion seeks to reestablish our relationship with our eternal Lord, and our living service to Him, by attaining Divine Love, which is the panacea for all evils in this world. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p>

A human ego thinks of himself in terms of the body he feels and controls with his mind and senses. Brahma emerged from Brahma (Brahman) and he sees everything as Brahma

Sorry, I must apologize. That was my mistake I see the thread is still active - but it suddenly appeared way down the list.

Moderator Why did you delete the thread about Srila Bhakti Saranga Goswami? There was nothing controversial in it! Why did you do that?

Gaudiya Vaishnava Theology by Srila Bhakti Saranga Goswami Maharaj <o:p> </o:p> The Hindu Scriptures teach us, according to Sri Krishna Chaitanya, nine principle doctrines:<o:p></o:p> <!--[if !supportLists]-->1) <!--[endif]-->Hari (the Almighty) is One without a second.<o:p></o:p> <!--[if !supportLists]-->2) <!--[endif]-->He is full of infinite power.<o:p></o:p> <!--[if !supportLists]-->3) <!--[endif]-->He is the ocean of Rasa (beauty and sweetness).<o:p></o:p> <!--[if !supportLists]-->4) <!--[endif]-->The individual souls, the living beings, are His separated parts.<o:p></o:p> <!--[if !supportLists]-->5) <!--[endif]-->Certain souls are engrossed in Maya, the illusory energy of the Lord.<o:p></o:p> <!--[if !supportLists]-->6) <!--[endif]-->Certain other souls are released from the bondage of Maya.<o:p></o:p> <!--[if !supportLists]-->7) <!--[endif]-->All spiritual and material phenomena are connected to the Lord but distinct from Him.<o:p></o:p> <!--[if !supportLists]-->8) <!--[endif]-->Bhakti, or devotion to God, is the only means of attaining the final and highest objective of life, the attainment of spiritual existence.<o:p></o:p> <!--[if !supportLists]-->9) <!--[endif]-->Prema, or holy love for Krishna, is alone the final and highest objective of life.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> This Theistic vision is not attainable by the theories of mundane science. It is, however, not opposed to a truly rational conclusion or understanding. It satisfies, fully, the needs of our real moral sense. It floods our life with peace, joy and hope, freeing us from all evils and solving the mystery of pain, vice and death.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> There can be no real intellectual assent to the truths of Theism without giving our whole higher selves to God in the fullest trust, love and obedience. Then only are we really convinced, when we actually realise the imperative necessity for ourselves and for all animation of attaining the spiritual service of Krishna, who is all-love. The process of Bhakti (devotion) then is no longer a mundane theory or a set of mundane propositions but instead something that brings about the complete dedication of all we do and think and say to the constant service of Transcendence. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> We should begin to allot some time and energy to learn of the Absolute Truth, revealed by the scriptures through the living scripture, by which I mean the sadhu (saintly devotee of God). The more we practice associating with saints, the more we can detect our hallucinations in our current conceptions of God; and our faith will rise higher and higher till it reaches the Divine Holy Feet of Krishna. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> When this faith in Krishna is kindled in the doubting heart and we really seek to be enlightened in perfect humility, Krishna sends to us a good preceptor to guide us in the path of the Absolute. I am engaged today in carrying out the precepts of my Divine Master, Sri Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur. I am trying in my humble way to explain religion as I have heard from his holy lips. Hearing about true religion is the one needful thing for both the theists and the atheists. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Religion means the spiritual process by which our souls are re-united to the Absolute Lord by the bond of his eternal willing service, which is the proper function of each individual soul. Religion establishes our relationship with God. It provides a means to go deeper into the profundity of the Divine. And it leads to our attaining holy love – the supreme purpose of spritual pursuits. Religion is harmonious and universal. God is one without a second, and His religion also is one for humanity as a whole, though exoterically or morphologically it may vary in certain external circumstances. The esoterical or morphological aspect of all true religion is one and the same, viz., Divine Love. And that religion which warrants the highest loving devotion to God is the best of all and should be followed by all intelligent human beings.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Philosophically, our eternal self is something other than the physical body made of earth, water, fire, air and ether, and the subtle body made of mind, intelligence and perverted ego. The soul is a spiritual entity quite distinct from the physical body and the astral body made of matter – either in gross or subtle forms. The soul is the proprietor of these two properties, the gross and subtle bodies, which are perishable. The soul is neither born nor does it die. The soul has everlasting existence. It is exempt from liability to extinction. Under the influence of Maya, the illusory energy of God, which manifests itself in the shape of this mundane world, the soul is again and again vested with a corporeal frame and each conditioned soul passes after death into a series of new existences in heaven and hell or in the bodies of men, beasts, birds, insects, or plants on earth, where it is rewarded or punished for all the deeds committed in a former life. The soul may soar so high as to become a divine being fully conscious of his own true nature as an eternal servant of the Supreme Lord in the spiritual kingdom, or it may descend so low as to appear no better than sticks and stones.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> The destiny of each individual soul is thus made or marred by himselft. As spiritual beings, all individual souls possess the faculty of free will divinely bestowed upon them. They can abuse this gift of God or they can make the best use of it. The Supreme Lord does not interfere with His gift, viz., the soul’s freedom of choice. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> All individual souls though intrinsically of the same nature with God are but infinitessimal Absolutes when compared with the Infinite Absolute Personality and are therefore servants of God.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Just as the rays of the sun are always associated with the sun, so also, as associated parts of the Absolute-Sun, all individual souls are expected to exist with the Eternal Existent Lord, to know the Omniscient Lord and to enjoy Infinite Bliss by eternally rendering loving service to Him. But, for the transgression of deviation away from Him through misuse of their free will, the external potency of God, Maya, suppresses them by way of showing a diversity of existence, in the same way as rays of sunlight streaming away from the sun get their normal aspect of brightness diminished and suppressed when they are reflecting upon dark material things. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> The natural function of rendering eternal service to God which is common to all souls lies hidden under the cover of manifold miseries when they want to lord it over the universe instead of serving the Supreme Lord. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> To explain further, just as the luminous substance of the sun appears as 1) the solar disk, 2) the individual rays, and 3) the reflection; so also the inconceivable power of the Absolute-Sun manifests Himself in three ways: 1) the Internal Potency; 2) the Intermediate Potency, and 3) the External Potency. The Intermediate Potency resolves into individual souls like us, which correspond to the individual rays of sunlight. The External Potency or Maya corresponds to the reflection (as when light reflects upon the surface of the sea). And the Internal Potency corresponds to the solar disk, the Spiritual Sun itself – the kingdom of God. The orb of the sun contains the individual rays, yet the rays are found to be scattered away from the sun; similarly the individual souls, though ultimately contained within the same Reservoir of Light (God) are scattered away by reason of their being averse to the service of God from beginningless time. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Religion seeks to reestablish our relationship with our eternal Lord, and our living service to Him, by attaining Divine Love, which is the panacea for all evils in this world. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p>

Beautiful.

Yes. And I will add I'm virtually certain I know who this person Vigraha/Sarva Gatah/Pradyumna Swami really is Gaura Gopala dasa (ACBSP). If you are not, Vigraha, then tell us who you really are!

There are two kinds of souls in Vaikuntha. Those who are eternal associates of the Lord, and those who have entered Vaikuntha, coming from the outside.

I've come in contact with a lineage of devotees who are from Chennai (Madras) whose parampara comes down from Sri Chaitanyadeva, from when Mahapabhu visited the south 500 years ago. The say that Mahapabhu has remained in this world in the form of the Mahamantra, and that if you chant the mahamantra you are automatically given diksa by the mantra since Sri Guru / Govinda are non-different from Sri Nama. Interestingly, they say the ultimate reality is Brahman - and they are Advaitins. They say bhakti is the means to attain liberation. see here for more info: http://www.ozmadhuramurali.org/ They offer honour to all sages, and quote the Advaita-vada sages such as Vivekananda, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Shirdi Sai Baba, Ramana Maharsi etc. In many ways I like this idea that we should not abuse the mystics but instead that we should see they are advanced mystics on the path towards God. I never really felt comfortable attacking the mayavadis. But then let them dissolve in Brahman if they want, I guess. They are all somewhat like the Muslim Sufis who believe matter, man and God are in effect one single entity and essence- and that God in his ultimate state is a formless oneness of being (wihdat al-wujood). If you have no connection to great, living Vaishavas who can explain the truth about the Nama, Guna, Rupa and Lila of Krishna, then the path of monism can seem like the eternal path of the great sages. If you promote the idea that you don't need personal contact with a Guru, then it's not a great step further to say Personal relationships are superseded when you realize the omnipresence of pure Spirit.

Kshamabuddhi Sorry to hear that your daughter had this frightening thing happen to her The car can be replaced but your children are priceless.

Srila Prabhupada made a rule that devotees living at Chaitanya Math must all chant 64 rounds. I chant 64 rounds a day (or more) when I can and lots of "Gaudiya Math" devotees I know do 64 rounds every day.

Both siksa and diksa are necessary. All of the Acharyyas in the Parampara of Sri Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura went to a walking, talking person and heard the diksa mantras from him.

OK, so according to this rule they should ban Christians from saying prayers at your Senate since Christians believe in the existence of four gods: Father, Son, Holy Ghost and Satan. Satan used to be an integral part of Yahweh and Yahweh even said the Hebrews should worship the idol of a serpent called Nehustan, but after the Hebrews came in contact with Zoarastrianism they started to believe Satan is evil.