muralidhar_das

God is everywhere,

Not only in the sky, earth and sea,

But even in the heart of disturbed people with serious mental illnesses who are unable to recognize the fact that they are suffering from a psychosis.

The historical Buddha who appeared on earth 2,600 years ago.

This sutra is the last instruction Buddha gave before dying:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahayan...inirvana_Sutra

 

The Nirvana Sutra is an enormously important scripture, not least because of its influence on Zen Buddhism and in view of its traditional status as the final Mahayana pronouncements of the Buddha on the eve of his physical death. It is striking for its teachings on the eternal, unchanging, blissful, pure, inviolate and deathless "Self" of the Buddha. Here the sutra controverts the familiar Buddhist dictum that "all dharmas [phenomena] are non-Self", and in the Dharmakshema version the Buddha even declares that "in truth there is Self (Atman) in all dharmas". That Self is "indestructible like a diamond". Any idea that the Buddha (who is the immortal Self) is impermanent is vigorously rejected by the Buddha in this sutra, and those who teach otherwise are severely criticised. He insists: "Those who cannot accept that the Tathāgata is eternal [nitya] cause misery." In contrast, meditating upon the eternality of the Buddha is said to bring happiness and protection from rebirth in evil realms.

 

 

Much of the central focus of the Nirvana Sutra falls on the existence of the salvific Buddha-dhatu (Buddha-nature, Buddha element, or Buddha principle), also called the Tathagatagarbha ("Buddha-matrix" or "Buddha embryo"), in every sentient being (animals included - hence the Buddha's strong support for vegetarianism in this sutra), the full seeing of which ushers in Liberation from all suffering and effects final deliverance into the realm of Great Nirvana (maha-nirvana). This "True Self" or "Great Self" of the nirvanic realm is said to be sovereign, to be attained on the morning of Buddhahhood, and to pervade all places like space. The Buddha-dhatu is always present, in all times and in all beings, but is obscured from worldly vision by the screening effect of tenacious negative mental afflictions (kleshas) within each being (the most notable of which are greed, hatred, delusion, and pride). Once these negative mental states have been eliminated, however, the Buddha-dhatu is said to shine forth unimpededly and the Buddha-sphere (Buddha-dhatu/ visaya) can then be consciously "entered into", and therewith deathless Nirvana attained.

 

 

The Tathagatagarbha is presented by the Nirvana Sutra as a wholly positive, liberational power, and is stated by the Buddha, in the earliest extant version of the sutra (the "six fascicle text" of Fa-xian, q.v.), to "nurture/sustain the person". It is further called "true life" (true "jiva"), and said to be utterly invulnerable to all harm. It is likened to a "precious jewel" and is described as being "indestructible like a diamond" - the hardest substance known to mankind.

 

 

If you seriously search for a real Guru you will find one.

In the Earliest Buddhism as recorded in the Nirvana Sutra or Mahāparinirvāṇa Sūtra we find Buddha promoting Vegetarianism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahayana_Mahaparinirvana_Sutra

But in different places Buddhism evolved in different ways, according to the tastes and culture of the people.

The Nirvana Sutra, by the way, Buddha also says that God [buddha-nature] exists in the heart of every being.

In this sutra, his last sermon before dying, Buddha states that the philosophy he has taught is not nihilism. Buddha says it is wrong to think that we have no eternal self. He says the Self is "indestructible like a diamond".

The light emitted by the Divine drives away all worldly ignorance and misery and draws the purified soul unto itself. It is as if a great light draws to itself one of its own rays gone astray. What happens to the individual ray after it is merged in the great light, is left undescribed. No vocabulary, it is urged, can carry us into the mystic depths of existence inside the great light. This is the semitic psychology represented by the idea of the undefinable personality of Godhead.

 

from Vaisnavism - Real and Apparent, by Sri Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura

In the way of thinking that Sri Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura categorized as "semitic psychology" God is thought to be an invisible being.

In the New Testament we find Paul declaring that God is invisible and that this invisible God incarnated as Jesus.

Paul also says this person Jesus was the "firstborn of every creature" and that Jesus created "all things".

[12] Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

[13] Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

[14] In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

[15] Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

[16] For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

[17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

 

This type of Semitic psychology, with it's invisible God and its insistence that the [possibly fictional] prophet Jesus is God Himself, is a totally different psychology from the spiritual psychology taught by Sri Chaitanya.

The subject of this thread is "Origin of Biblical Monotheism".

The monotheism of the semites is a form of Mayavada. It is worship of an invisible God who is the source of light - like the Sun.

I respect the Dalai Lama for the fact that through his own personal display of integrity he has made the whole world aware of Tibet and its ancient Buddhist culture.

Pity he is a meat eater

Theist you may call me a bigot and feel that (in your own self righteous way)

But take a look at the things the Hebrews did to other races, as recorded in their own testament.

They were not godly people, and out of all of them, their prophets (in the style of Bin Laden) were the worst of the bunch.

Is there one crime against humanity that Bin Laden is accused of that the Hebrews did not do many, many, many, many times?

This Yahweh is a psychopath.

He is always threatening to kill people.

But why didn't moses die when Yahweh wanted to kill him? If Yahweh was all-powerful then Moses would just have died instantly, simply because Yahweh wanted him dead. So it is pretty obvious that Yahweh is just a symbol for some wrathful "demon" force that the Jews were frightened of. Yahweh is no god at all.

But then not only is Yahweh imaginary, but Moses too!

Yahweh wanted to kill moses so Moses wife cut off the foreskin of her son to make Yahweh happy. A barbarian religion? Yes it is!

***************************

Exodus 4:24

God attacked Moses and tried to kill him.

Exodus 4:25

Then Zipporah, taking up a flint knife, cut off her sons's foreskin.

And with the foreskin, she touched Moses's feet and said, 'You are my blood-bridegroom!'

Well there is no evidence of that - it's really just speculation - however - there is a great deal of evidence that krishna is a literary creation developed over time.

 

<big> Krishna is a fiction - he is NOT real.</big>

 

500 years ago Krishna walked on this earth. There is no doubt whatsoever that He lived on earth.

And if you believe the soul does not die then that REAL PERSON who came to earth 500 years ago is still living.

On the other hand, there is no evidence at all that Moses actually existed.

<!--mstheme-->Most archaeologists who are not conservative Jews or Christians, believe that Adam, Eve, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Joshua, and other leaders mentioned in the Bible prior to King David were probably the product of myth; they did not exist as actual people. Archaeologists are debating about how much of David's and Solomon's stories are accurate.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_arhs.htm

Exodus 4:24 says that God tried to kill Moses?

What a strange thing this bible is ... absurd and irrational.

http://www.thebricktestament.com/exodus/god_attacks_moses/ex04_24b.html

My best friend is a brahmachary named Nitai Prasada (my son)

Nice name.

I have a son named Nitai Sharan

Thanks. Yeah--isn't Sanatan Goswami cool?

Totally wonderful. Totally amazing.

That was beautiful Babhru Prabhu.

Sanatana Goswami:

Brhadbhagavatamrtam 2.7. 12

 

Sri Pariksit said: Seeing that the wealth of spiritual love had not yet appeared in the brahmana, Sarupa placed his hand on the brahmana's head.

 

Brhadbhagavatamrtam 2.7. 13

 

Then, by the mercy of that great soul, the brahmana could see in his heart everything that Sarupa had seen.

 

Sarupa is Gopa Kumara's other name.

What a joke.

My Guru Maharaj's divine commentary on Gayatri, a mantra that only an initiate is supposed to know, is turned into a point of discussion for ritviks and non-believers such as Kshamabuddhi.

If it wasn't such a tragic abuse and offence against everything that I consider holy, it would be merely nauseating. But since this whole topic is an aparadha all I can do is go away.

What will we see next? Maybe some genius will invent a robot that walks around and speaking the words in "Prabhupada's books". It's head can be a 1973 edition of Gita as it is. And this robot can give you diksa if you sit in front of it. Just offer a flower and the robot will say "om bhu bhuvah swah" etc. Everything is in Prabhupada's books, we hear them say. So if you get a robot and load all the books into a few Gb of RAM then the robot will be better than any living guru - oh I forgot, it is "bad" to suggest that a guru can be anything other than living. If you say a Guru is departed, the Book-Vani crowd will call you a fool.

WHY NOT?

 

Is it bad PR?

Yes, without a doubt.

Why are we still seen as a brain-washing cult?

In my experience this is exactly how people think of the Krishna-bhaktas.

I just came back from the city, I went to see the Dalai Lama speak in a park.

It was raining and there were several thousand people standing in the rain listening.

He was asked, "What is the meaning of life".

The Dalai Lama answered, "I don't know".

He went on to say that people are full of hope and desire to find things in this world but in this life you don't find real joy. Joy comes through liberation from this life of material existence.

One thing I was amazed to realize today is that Buddhism is acceptable to all kinds of ordinary people in Australia.

Both the Prime Minister and the leader of the opposition Labor party met with the Dalai Lama. Football stars, famous actors and musicians, the CEO of Virgin airlines in Australia, all of these met with the Dalai Lama.

I guess Buddha's religion is regarded as a real spiritual tradition. I wish our faith was regarded with that kind of respect. Unfortunately, it is not.

Kshamabuddhi if you want to think what you think then go right ahead. I am not the thought police.

Theist I don't think anyone has to be pure to get diksa. Getting diksa is the means by which we become a pure devotee, so by definition a person will get diksa and then get pure devotion. After diksa comes bhajana-kriya, chanting and service. All this is described in Bhaktirasamrtasindhu, or Nectar of Devotion if you prefer. You know that already. I'm not saying anything new.

Hari bol

nama vina kali-kale nahi naya dharma

sarva-mnatra-sara nama ei sastra-marma

 

"In the age of Kali, there is no religion other than the chanting of the Holy Names. The Holy Name is the essence of all sacred utterances - this is the conclusion of all the scriptures." (Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi 7.74)

 

We do not have to memorize a large number of different mantras. There are just a few things to pay attention to with this, our essential mantra: you must chant it properly, avoiding offences. But that will not happen simply by carrying a japa-mala around in your hand. Many people carry a mala but are busy gossiping with one another. Our motto is aviksepena satatyam - 'chant constantly, without distraction.' That is why when people ask me, 'Are we to never meditate on Krsna's pastimes? Are we to be bereft of this nectar forever?' I answer, 'Go ahead. Meditate on them. And instruct others to do the same. But the price of that meditation is steadfastness (nistha) in the Holy Name' This is stated in the Bhakti-rasmarta-sindhu (1.4.15-17):

 

Adau sraddha tatah sadhu-sangah - at the stage of sadhu-sanga you take shelter of the spiritual master's lotus feet. Then bhajana-kriya follows -

 

kona bhagya kona jivera sraddha yadi haya

tabe sei jiva sadhu-sanga je karaya

sadhu-sanga haite haya sravana-kirtana

sadhana-bhaktye haya sarvanartha-nivartana

anartha-nivrtti haile bhaktaye nistha haya

nistha haite sravanadye ruci upajaya

ruci haite bhaktye haya asakti pracura

asakti haite cite janme krsne prity-ankura

sei bhava gadha haile dhare prema-nama

sei prema prayojana sravanananda dhama

 

"If, by good fortune, a living entity develops faith (sraddha) in Krsna, then he begins to associate with devotees (sadhu-sanga). From the association of devotees, one begins devotional service by hearing and chanting about Krsna. This is called sadhana-bhakti and through it one becomes free from all unwanted contaminations (anartha-nivrtti). When one is freed from all unwanted contamination, he becomes steadfast in his devotional practices (nistha). When fixed in devotional practice, a taste (ruci) is awakened. After such taste is awakened, a deep attachment (asakti) arises, and from that attachment the seed of love for Krsna grows in the heart. When the ecstatic emotional stage intensifies, it is called love of Godhead. Such love is life's ultimate goal and the reservoir of all pleasure." (Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya 23.9-13)

 

As Puri Maharaj says in the quote above, at the stage of sadhu-sanga you take shelter of the spiritual master's lotus feet.

At the stage of sadhu-sangha, you take diksa and begin bhajana-kriya.

Diksa happens at the beginning of your spiritual practice. Diksa is not something you achieve only when you are totally pure and liberated. Diksa is for beginners, for people infested with anarthas. Later on, after diksa, you get free from all your bad habits (anartha-nivritti).

I have the recording (mp3) of this conversation some place. I'll have to dig it out from among the 1500 lectures I have, mostly unindexed.

Whether he said formal i don't remember. What he was saying is that being told "chant Hare Krishna" is not necessarily initiation. There are general instructions or statements such as saying "chant Hare Krishna" on the one hand and Diksa on the other. He was very clear in telling me that I had not received diksa, simply because Prabhupada had said to me (personally) that I should chant hare krishna, follow the regs, read his books.

Important for what?

 

I asked this question:

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He told me if the Guru accepts you as a disciple you are his disciple.

Simply having him telling you "chant hare krishna" is not the same as getting diksa

Acceptance by the Guru is what was important. That is what Srila Sridhar Maharaj told me.

Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Ādi 1.35:

mantra-guru āra yata śikṣā-guru-gaṇa

tāńhāra caraṇa āge kariye vandana

I first offer my respectful obeisances at the lotus feet of my initiating spiritual master and also to all my instructing spiritual masters.

Just a bit of history, here.

I saw Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada during three visits to Australia in the ealy 70's. I also wrote to Prabhupada, and in a letter he told me "chant hare krishna, follow the four regs, thoroughly read and assmilate my books" and some other instructions. I still have the letter.

When I went to Srila Sridhar Maharaj I asked him

"What is the difference between being told by a suddha-vaishnava to chant Hare Krishna and getting initiation into the Hare Krishna mantra from that Vaishnava?"

 

I was feeling that maybe I'm a disciple of Srila Prabhupada because he had, in fact, given me Hari-Nama personally, in personal instruction. And indeed I rendered personal service to him and had some one-on-one connection to him (In the video about Prabhupada in Australia you see standing beside Prabhupada and doing some various sorts of service in a section that goes on for maybe 20 minutes.)

Anyhow, this is the background.

Srila Sridhar Maharaj told me that diksa is when the Guru accepts you. So unless he formally accepts you as his disciple then it is not initiation. Some kind of relationship may be there. Certainly. But you cannot just say you got diksa from some Vaishnava simply because he said to you "chant Hare Krishna". That is not diksa. Diksa involves being personally accepted as a disciple by the Guru.

We've all heard the story about how Narottama das Thakura was not accepted by Lokananatha Goswami in the beginning, and how Gaura Kishore das Babaji initially did not accept Saraswati Thakura. Only after repeated efforts by the prospective disciple did the Guru accept the disciple. That's the way things are.

Yes good points Vedesu

A crisis of faith can be a very positive experience because a person realizes that they can no longer be guided by "blind faith" but instead that they need to get some internal inspiration and spiritual realization.

I don't think Guest123 has fallen down

I think he has just started to see things properly

(as i think its silly to practice something in which my bhakti is not real)

 

Guest123 wants to attain real bhakti.