muralidhar_das

Theist, I appreciate your view on this point (and on many others). Like you, I also feel we need to be sensible when we read statements in the scriptures, be they stories of Noah and the Ark, or of Varaha and the earth-goddess he lifted from the sea. But for me there is a clear message in Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur's writings, most specially Sri Krishna Samhita and Tattva Viveka/ Tattva sutra, which allow me to reconcile modern day thinking and the stories of the Veda. I happen to be one of the people who think the earth we are standing on is not flat, or shaped like a lotus.

Theist, What do you think about the "virgin birth", "december 25" and "resurrection" and other similarities between Mithraism and Christianity? See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithras In this document uchicago.edu, it discusses the archeological and other evidence which prove that in Persia, 200 years before Christ was born, the Mithras cult follwers believed their god Mithras was born of a"virgin birth", on "december 25" and that he was buried in a tomb and then had a "resurrection from the dead" Apparently, Constantine was opposed to Mithraism because Mithraism originated in Persia and Persia was the arch-enemy of Rome.

Theist:<blockquote> Muralidhar, I am wondering how lieteraly you accept the Varaha incarnation of Vishnu and the whole falling of the earth planet into the universal ocean? Also a myth? </blockquote> There is a realm of "mind-stuff" above the material, physical plane of existence. In the beginning of the world, the earth arises out of the "waters of devastation", lifted into the light of day by Lord Narayana, who appears in a form with the features of a forest animal. Varaha. Before the earth came into being, Hiranyaksa and his brother Hiranyakasipu was living. All the devas were living in the ethereal realm. I have no problem seeing the Varaha-avatara story as a fact. Theist, I appreciate your view of Christianity and that you can find good things in the Bible, which are inspirational. I have always had a great deal of respect for you personally, through all these years of "cyber conversations". But I find the following facts of history to be undeniable: 1) Constantine used to be a follower of Mithraism 2) After Nicea there was an incorporation of myths about "December 25", "virgin birth", and "rising from the tomb", "sunday is the sabbath" and so forth into the Romanized Christian religion. 3) Constantine established a state religion of Christianity, which was the ONLY RELIGION of the empire, and people who had alternative religious views were persecuted. 4) Christians like to say they were persecuted, "fed to the lions", which is true. But in the next period, after the deal was struck with Constantine, the leading Christians used the power they were given to persecute followers of other faiths. The Christians arose as a political power in the 4th century, and ever since then they have not been "meek" but instead they have been crusaders against people of other faiths. Further, Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur wrote many things about Christianity. About Adam and eve and Satan, etc., and I accept his view of things. He said the myth about "atonenemt for mankind's sins through the crucifixion of God" is a story that he could not accept as true.

<blockquote> He (Abba Hashem) is going to allow his beloved Son Jesus , or Y'shua for you jewish folks, be crushed on a tree for our iniquities. get it?? His blood was spilled to pay for our , your and mine, iniquitous sins, and all of upanishads and vedas and gurus in disciplic succession can't save you from your sin nature that is head long on it's way to eternal death!!! </blockquote> This is so stupid. All I can do is laugh at your foolishness, and hope that in the future you will open your eyes and see that you believe in a bad religion. The idea that God arranged a human sacrifice (Jesus crucifixion) to atone for the sins of mankind is stupid. The question arises, if God is all knowing and all powerful then why did he plan the whole Adam & Eve & the serpent episode, and then the crucifixion of Christ? Clearly, (if you believe in this myth and the logic it presents), it was God's choice that Jesus should be crucified. Jesus was crucified because God wanted that to happen. He was killed because it was the plan of the Almighty, and not because of some "sins" that were needing to be abolved. The idea that there was somehow some sort of absolving of humankind's sins by this act of atonement raises this question from the Vaishnava Acharya Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur: why did God have to orchestrate this strange series of events whereby humankind would be saved? Why didn't God (who is supposed to be all powerful) simply think "I absolve them from sin", and have humankind freed from sin by that. If it were true that God needed to have this human sacrifice perpetrated, then this God must be a very strange, inhumane being. This sort of God is not a good person at all, but rather someone satanic in my opinion. And by the way, Muslims don't believe that Jesus was crucified at all. In the Qur'an, it states that the crucifixion did not take place and Jesus was neither killed nor died on the cross. He just ascended to heaven to be with God. Mithraism is probably the source of this crucifixion myth. But myths have a tendency to endure, long after the people who dreamed them up have died and gone from this world. I choose to believe in the living God, Sri Krishna Chaitanya, who appeared in Nabadwip 500 years ago, in order to save not just mankind but even the animals and trees from their karma and from bad religion. Believe what you like, mataji, but I know that Sri Krishna Chaitanya really existed and that he is a Divine Being. Whereas the loony Fundamentalists only have a mythology, and Mithraism, as the basis of their belief system.

Mataji said:<blockquote> the bible is older than the nicean councel of 325! The dead sea scrolls prove that! a large part of the bible are the dead sea scrolls and they are thousands of years old. besides mithra worship was acceptable in pagan rome, as long as you worship the emperor or the caesar, you could worship as you please. Christians were persecuted and killed for worshiping the good shepard Christ, and not the bull god mithra! </blockquote> This is really absurd, Mataji. Texts such as the book of Enoch have been found among the dead sea scrolls, but there are no scrolls that mention Jesus or his followers. There are references to baptism and a wandering preacher, but from the descriptions in the scrolls it is clear that this person is not presenting the same teachings as the Jesus in the New Testament. He was preaching about "purity" and Jewish rules of cleanliness. Further, the main reason that Constantine arranged for the council of nicea was so that he could get the bishops to work out a unified doctrine, so that they could begin a persecution of the heretic Arians. What was the principal thing that the Christians hated about Arianism? The Arians said that Jesus was a man, not God. And for this they were persecuted by the Christians and the Romans. In fact, Christians have persecuted and executed many millions of people who have the audacity to say that Jesus was a man, not God. Indeed, Mohammed said that Jesus was a man, not God.

Matadevi, where in the Bible does it say that Jesus was born on December 25 (christmas day)? I know the answer. It isn't written anywhere. The idea that the "saviour god" was born on December 25 is something borrowed from Mithraism. And where does it say that Jesus was born from a virgin, his mother Mary? Again, this is nowhere in the bible. Again, this idea is simply an idea that was taken from Mithraism. Where in the Bible does it say that Sunday should be regarded as the sabbath? The Jews always regarded Saturday as the sabbath, and, once again, there is nothing in the Bible to say that Sunday should be the sabbath. But Sunday was the sabbath for followers of Mithraism, since Mithra is a sun-god type deity. And again, may I ask, what is the origin of the "halo" that we see in Christian paintings. The "halo" is not mentioned in the Bible either, is it? The holy ghost came down upon people's heads like a flame, but that flame is not described as circular in the Bible. The circle of the "halo" was symbolic of the sun, and once again, it is something that was in Mithraism and which was brought into Christian belief from Mithraism. According to Mithraism, Mithra was called the son of God, was born of a virgin, had disciples, was crucified, rose from the dead on the third day, atoned for the sins of mankind, and returned to heaven. And the followers of Mithraism believed in these doctrines BEFORE CHRIST WAS BORN. They didn't copy these ideas from the Christians. Really, it was the other way around. Mataji, what proof or evidence do you have, that Christianity didn't borrow the ideas of crucifixion, resurrection and all the rest from Mithraism? You have your faith, but what is the basis of your faith? The Bible? The Bible that the Roman Emporer Constantine fabricated? Sorry if I seem a little forceful in what I'm saying, but truly I feel that the religion of Christianity is a hoax.

<blockquote>matadevi wrote: the bible is older than the nicean councel of 325! </blockquote> This is untrue. At the time of the congress at Nicea there was no 'bible', just a lose assemblage of writings on papyrus reed paper, scrolls, sheep skin documents and tablets. The 27 books of the New Testament that most Christian groups today accept were assemled as "the Bible" in 367 by a man named Athanasius. This happened after the congress at Nicea. Many texts that the Bishops regarded as unacceptable for various reasons were left out of the Bible. But then outside the Roman Empire there were churches that accepted different books in their "Canon". The largest Bible today is that of the Ethiopian Orthodox church, which has 81 books. Among these is the Book of Enoch, which talks about how some types of demons are reborn again and again through reincarnation. Enoch also describes the Sun and Moon as living beings, gods. The concept that the planets have an influence on our lives (astrology) is also described in Enoch.

Mataji, You started out by asking, what if the prophesies of the Bible about hell and Jesus are true. But then, what if the things written in "the Bible" are untrue? What if the modern day Bible is a book that was fabricated from "politically correct texts" by servants of the Roman emporer Constantine who had gathered at the assembly of Bishops convened as a church council in the city of Nicea in the year 325? What if "Christianity" is really a fusion of religious ideas, many of which arose from the pagan religion of Mithraism? Mithra was a character who was worshipped as a Good Shepherd, the Way, the Truth and the Light, the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah and a solar deity. His religion was founded in the 6th century BCE, six hundred years before Christ was born. Mithraism was one of the most popular religions in the Roman Empire, especially among soldiers and civil servants. Mithra was believed to have been born of a virgin on the 25th December. He was visited by shepherds and by Magi. He traveled through the countryside, taught, and performed miracles with his twelve disciples[?]. He cast out devils, returned sight to the blind, healed the lame and so on. Symbols associated with Mithra were a lion and a lamb. He held a last supper, was killed and buried in a rock tomb. He rose again three days later, at the time of the spring equinox, circa 21st March. Later he ascended into heaven. Mithraism celebrated the anniversary of his resurrection, similar to the Christian Easter. They held services on Sunday. Rituals included a Eucharist and six other sacraments that corresponded to later Christian rituals. Many people who are skeptical about stories of Jesus' life suspect that Christianity may have appropriated many details of Mithraism in order to make their religion more acceptable to Pagans. Indeed, St. Augustine even stated that the priests of Mithra worshipped the same God as he did.

Krsna is raso vai sah, the reservoir of all pleasure, and akhila rasamrta murtih, ecstasy Himself. Krsna's very nature is sweet: madhuram madhuram vapur asya vibhor madhuram madhuram vadanam madhuram madhu gandhi mrdu smitam etad aho madhuram madhuram madhuram madhuram "O, Lord Krsna! The beauty of your transcendental form is sweet, but your beautiful face is even sweeter. The sweet smile on your face, which is like the sweet aroma of honey, is sweeter still."

<blockquote> matadevi, Kulapavanna's answer is also my answer. You are trying to motivate us to accept Christ under the fear of hell. While vaisnava's are busy to learn unmotivated loving service to the Lord. </blockquote> Yes.

you said to me: "non sense interpretation aye? what if it is true??? " I don't believe in the Bible or Christianity. I believe in none of it. There are just too many stories in the Bible that I will never accept. And the type of God we read about in the Bible is not the sort of person I want to worship. Specifically, the answers Jehovah gave to Job are harsh and unkind. But the true God is not unkind. He appears as Sri Krishna Chaitanya just to save the fallen souls. Satan, Adam and Eve = and Noah's boat full of elephants and dinosaurs and turkeys = they are only stories made up by some meat-eating people living in the desert.

In his commentary to Sri Chaitanya Charitamrta, Srila Prabhupada mentions that there are three scriptures of the meat eaters. The Old Testament, the New Testament, and the Koran. These books are not eternal scriptures, like the Vedas. In the Vedas, there is no mention of any such thing as an eternal hell. A person may live in a hellish circumstance for a time, in order to make up for his exceedingly bad karma (people who eat meat, etc). But nobody will go to hell forever. Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur states in his Bhagavata lecture: <blockquote> In the common-place books of the Hindu religion in which the rajo and tamo-guna have been described as the ways of religion, we have descriptions of a local heaven and a local hell; the Heaven as beautiful as anything on earth and the Hell as ghastly as any picture of evil. Besides this Heaven we have many more places, where good souls are sent up in the way of promotion! There are 84 divisions of the hell itself, some more dreadful than the one which Milton has described in his 'Paradise Lost' . These are certainly poetical and were originally created by the rulers of the country in order to check evil deeds of the ignorant people, who are not able to understand the conclusions of philosophy. The religion of the Bhagavata is free from such a poetry. Indeed, in some of the chapters we meet with descriptions of these hells and heavens, and accounts of curious tales, but we have been warned somewhere in the book, not to accept them as real facts, but as inventions to overawe the wicked and to improve the simple and the ignorant. The Bhagavata , certainly tells us a state of reward and punishment in future according to deeds in our present situation. All poetic inventions, besides this spiritual fact, have been described as statements borrowed from other works in the way of preservation of old traditions in the book which superseded them and put an end to the necessity of their storage. If the whole stock of Hindu theological works which preceded the Bh.gavata were burnt like the Alexandrian library and the sacred Bhagavata preserved as it is, not a part of the philosophy of the Hindus except that of the atheistic sects, would be lost. The Bhagavata therefore, may be styled both as a religious work and a compendium of all Hindu history and philosophy. </blockquote>

The religions that are bad religions are those religions where the gurus are not spiritual leaders, but religious leaders. Leaders who are "Ecclesiastical Gurus" and who follow "religious traditions" and rituals but who don't have a substantial or deep personal realization of the TRANSCENDENTAL REALITY OF GOD. This topic is dealt with in great detail in the writings of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura. See "Sri Krishna Samhita", for example. Then again, some people say that "everything is in Prabhupada's books and we don't need to read the books of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura". But then, I hope that God will some day grant these people some deeper understanding, if not in this lifetime then hopefully in the next.

One of the topics raised in Vedanta Sutra is "the form of the liberated soul". Badarayana (Vyasa) considers whether a soul who has become liberated gets a new body, or whether they exhibit the eternal form of their self which has always been within them. Vyasa concludes that the soul, on attaining liberation, does not get a new "spiritual" body. Rather the soul manifests its own innate spiritual form. This is discussed in detail in the Govinda Bhasya commentary to Vedanta, written by Baladeva Vidyabhusana. Souls may manifest in male or female forms in Vaikuntha and Goloka, depending on their innate personality-type. You can download the section of Vedanta dealing with this here http://www.mandala.com.au/books/Vs-4-4-1.doc Also, please consider this: <blockquote> Srila Sridhar Maharaj: Faith in Krsna, the Absolute Truth, is innate in every soul. Faith is coexistent with the soul, but at present it is covered by maya. Maya means miscalculation, misunderstanding, and wrong interest. Because our faith is covered, we cannot trace it out, but it is there within us. Only when we have come in connection with a real saint will our inner faith awaken. </blockquote>

Sorry!

I understand that Srila Prabhupada did go and ask Sripad Bhakti Vilasa Tirtha Maharaj for sannyas.

<blockquote> I understand that Sridhar Maharaja sent Prabhupada (Swami Maharaja) to Keshava Maharaja for sannyasa initiation. </blockquote> No. Srila Sridhar Maharaj told him to go to Sripad Bhakti Vilasa Tirtha Maharaj. May I ask, please find out the real facts about the life of Srila Sridhar Maharaj before you go making statements about how he was "like a babaji" and wotnot. This is just untrue. Besides the temple in Nabadwip which Srila Sridhar Maharaj established after he separated from Keshava Maharaj in the early 1940's, Srila Sridhar Maharaj opened up a temple in Calcutta too. Srila Sridhar Maharaj sent his disciple Gaurendu Brahmacari (Srila Govinda Maharaj) to live at that temple. Where was that temple? It was upstairs at 7 Sitakanta Banerjee Lane - the family home of Srila Bhaktivedanta Abhay Charan De. Srila Sridhar Maharaj had hundreds of disciples in Bengal and he preached widely in India in 1940-1960. Get your facts right. Please. Srila Govinda Maharaj: <blockquote> Even when Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math was just two thatched houses, there would be many thousands of people coming to attend the festivals and take prashadam - just like now. Srila Guru Maharaj was able to provide prashadam for everyone by the energy of the devotees' collection. Every year Madhusudan Maharaj would go out to collect for the festivals with us, and sometimes Jajavar Maharaj would also come. </blockquote> And also, Srila Sridhar Maharaj was never against holding Ratha Yatra festivals "in the big cities of the world". Before saying anything about this, please understand exactly what Srila Sridhar Maharaj really taught us about Ratha-yatra, Gaura-lila, the meeting of Radha-Govinda at Kurukshetra and other related events. It is there in the books. Read these books carefully, before making any more scrambled-brains statements about what Srila Sridhar Maharaj said or did.

matala harijana kirtana range pujala raga-patha gaurava bhange - Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur Go to this page to read the explanation: http://scsmath.com/memories/04/040114_nbdwp_jms_webpage/index2.htm I have just decided to change my signature to the Hare Krishna Mahamantra. See below.

Srila Sridhar Maharaj: "I avoided Keshava Maharaj, Madhava Maharaj and so many others. I came to live alone." Just leave this. There is no need to continue. You won't make any progress on the path back home, back to Godhead, by stirring up controversy.

You people shouldn't talk about these things since neither of you know the real facts.

This is the statement I find most peculiar: <blockquote> Bhakti Caru Swami: But the 1st initiation, the harinam initiation, the receiving of mantra, is not actually important. Why? Because the mantra has been given by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and it is public. You have been chanting the Hare Krsna maha-mantra even before initiation. So the mantra you have already gotten. </blockquote> I don't believe I got the Hare Krishna Mahamantra from Mahaprabhu. I got it from Srila Sridhar Maharaj, my Guru. And by the way, the giving of Harinama "initiation" is described in Chaitanya Bhagavat, in the example of the prostitute who became a disciple of Haridas Thakur. That lady did not get "gayatri mantra diksa" - she received Harinama. The giving of Harinama initiation has always been a part of Gaudiya tradition. It is just not true that because Mahaprabhu told everyone "chant hare krishna" that consequently everyone has received the Hare Krishna mantra from Mahaprabhu.

In reply to:<blockquote> As a matter of fact, before you got to know me, you got to know ISKCON and Srila Prabhupada. So ISKCON is actually the most important factor for our spiritual advancement. </blockquote> Theist said: Does that sound right ? <hr> There are several things in this talk that don't seem right to me. One thing he says really sticks out: <blockquote> Bhakti Caru Swami said... Another consideration of diksa is receiving of mantra. But the 1st initiation, the harinam initiation, the receiving of mantra, is not actually important. Why? Because the mantra has been given by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and it is public. You have been chanting the Hare Krsna maha-mantra even before initiation. So the mantra you have already gotten. But the gayatri mantra, which one receives during 2nd initiation, is still a secret. That mantra is received through the process of initiation. The spiritual master gives the mantra. But in ISKCON, Srila Prabhupada introduced something quite unique, namely that even harinam is considered to be initiation. In the Gaudiya Matha, Harinam is not considered to be initiation. Only the brahmana diksa, the gayatri, is considered to be initiation. But Srila Prabhupada introduced the custom that even harinam is given officially, and one takes a vow to chant a certain number of rounds a day, namely 16 rounds. </blockquote> I cannot accept this statement and the reasoning he employs: "But the 1st initiation, the harinam initiation, the receiving of mantra, is not actually important." I received Harinama and Gayatri Diksa from Srila B.R. Sridhar Maharaj, a "Gaudiya Math Acharya", and what Bhakti Caru Swami says is definitely different from what Srila B.R. Sridhar Maharaj said to me (and all my Godbrothers and Godsisters) when I received Harinama from him. <blockquote> Student: I have heard that one has an eternal connection with the spiritual master who first initiates one into the chanting of the Hare Krsna maha-mantra (harinama guru). Does he have a similar connection with the mantra guru? Srila Sridhara Maharaja: Yes. We may see it as similar, with a slight difference. Student: Some devotees who took harinama initiation from Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada later took their gayatri mantra initiation from one of his disciples. Can you explain the distinction between the two initiations and how a disciple should view his relationship with two different spiritual masters? Srila Sridhara Maharaja: The first importance should be given to the nama guru, or the guru who initiates one into the chanting of the holy name of Krsna, and second to the guru who gives initiation into the gayatri mantra. The diksa guru, initiating spiritual master, must be shown respect, and then all the other disciples of Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. First, honor must be shown to Prabhupada, who is the nama guru, the guru of guru, the second honor will go to the diksa guru, and then to the rest, accommodating all. They should all be recognized according to their status. </blockquote> There is also this: <blockquote> Student: How many rounds did your guru maharaja ask his initiated disciples to chant each day? Did he prescribe any set number? Srila Sridhara Maharaja: His general recommendation was to chant twentyfive thousand names, sixteen rounds, daily, or at least four rounds minimum. When someone had no work, he could chant one hundred thousand names, or sixty-four rounds. Student: Would Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura give harinama initiation to someone who could only chant four rounds daily? Srila Sridhara Maharaja: There was no such consideration. Formally, one had to do some counting, but there was no rigid limitation. What he wanted from us was intense engagement in the service of the Lord, under the guidance of a Vaisnava, because the all-important point is service. </blockquote>

Gaurasundara asked me not to "interact" with him on this forum. But Gaurasundara then comes out and makes all sorts of snide comments against my Gurus, which he justifies by the logic that I criticized the tradition of the "traditional guru" named Tinkori babaji. Did I abuse Tinkori, or Kunjabihari das Babaji? If you read what I have said about them here you will see that I made no personal attacks at all against them. I just happen to feel that they are preaching a bad religion. OBL Kapoor: <blockquote>Tinkadi Gosvami then tried to take vesa from some other saint. But no one gave him vesa, because he was an acarya. Therefore, one day he took vesa of a renounciant Babji by putting on an old kaupina of Baba Manohara Dasa and taking a vow never to return home. He did not need initiation, because he was already initiated by his father. </blockquote> This is a bad religion. Look at the ignorance and injustice it promotes. Professional gurus. And Babaji's who give authority and power to high caste gurus who cheat the ignorant people and take their money. It was necessary for Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur and Srila Saraswati Thakur to reform the Gaudiya Vaishnava religion. Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur wrote: <blockquote> What sort of a thing is the Bhagavata, asks the European gentlemen newly arrived in India. His companion tells him with a serene look, that the Bhagavata is a book, which his Oriya bearer daily reads in the evening to a number of hearers. It contains a jargon of unintelligible and savage literature of those men who paint their noses with some sort of earth or sandal, and wear beads all over their bodies in order to procure salvation for themselves. Another of his companions, who has traveled a little in the interior, would immediately contradict him and say that the Bhagavata is a Sanskrit work claimed by a sect of men, the Goswamis, who give mantras, like the Pope of Italy, to the common people of Bengal, and pardon their sins on payment of gold enough to defray their social expenses. A third gentlemen will repeat a third explanation. Young Bengal, chained up in English thoughts and ideas, and wholly ignorant of the Pre-Mohammed history of his own country, will add one more explanation by saying that the Bhagavata is a book, containing an account of the life of Krishna, who was an ambitious and an immoral man! This is all that he could gather from his grandmother while yet he did not go to school! Thus the Great Bhagavata ever remains unknown to the foreigners like the elephant of the six blind who caught hold of the several parts of the body of the beast! </blockquote>

I don't smoke or take any other type of intoxication. None of the devotees in senior, responsible positions in SCSMath smoke. Some disciples smoke. But Srila Sridhar Maharaj and Srila Govinda Maharaj wish they wouldn't do that. Srila Sridhar Maharaj's advice in regard to smoking: <blockquote> Student: I have a problem. For ten years I've tried to take up this process. For ten years, I have kept from eating meat, fish, and eggs. I avoid material things - I have no attraction for them. I have left all this behind. But there is one thing I want to give up and also I don't want to give up. This is ganja (marijuana). Srila Sridhara Maharaja: That is a small thing. There are three real difficulties: the first is women, the second is money, and the third, good name and fame. These three are our enemies. Marijuana intoxication is a small thing. Anyone can give it up easily. But these three things are the fundamental aspiration of every animal, tree, bird, man, or god. These three are everywhere. But intoxication and other fleeting habits are very negligible things and can be conquered very easily. As we have gradually come into the habit of intoxication, we have to come out; gradually, and not suddenly. Just after World War Two, we read in the newspaper that Goering, Hitler's air general, was habituated to taking much intoxication. But when he was put into jail, no intoxication was supplied to him. He became sick, but treatment went on and he was cured. His disease was cured by the medicine. We also have seen so many opium-eaters who came here, joined the temple, and gradually left their habit. Many so-called "sadhus" smoke marijuana. It helps concentration, but that is the material mind. It disturbs faith. It is an enemy to faith. No material intoxication, but only faith can take us to our desired goal. The misguided souls think that marijuana, hashish, and so many other things can help us in our meditation. It may do something, but that is mundane and that will frustrate us in our time of need. These things cannot help us rise up very high. Srimad Bhagavatam (1.17.38) advises that these five things should be rejected: dyutam: gambling, or diplomacy; panam: intoxication, including tea, coffee, betel, and everything else; striyah: unlawful, illegal womanlove; suna: butchering, and the transaction of gold. Trade in gold makes one very apathetic towards progress in the line of faith. These five are very tempting. What to speak of the mania that intoxication will help us in our meditation upon the transcendental, Devarsi Narada says, yamadibir yoga-pathaih kama- lobha hato muhuh: even what we acquire by meditation is temporary and has no permanent effect. Only real faith in the line of pure devotion can help us. </blockquote> If some people smoke then they will suffer the consequences. Cancer. Bob Marley died from cancer. He was like a sadhu but he couldn't consume poison without suffering from it. Poisons such as ganga kill people.

criticizes my Gurudev for watching TV and taking an interest in Russia and China. Here is the fruit of my Gurudev's interest in China: Radhastami in China: http://scsmath.com/memories/04b/040922-china-radhastami/040922-china-radhastami.html