muralidhar_das

Radha Govinda dasa please tell me the name of your diksa and siksa gurus, if you want to have a discussion with me about these things. Obviously you know lots of gossip about various people such as Bhakti Vikasa Swami, T.Swami and Narasingha Maharaj so I find it hard to believe you just stumbled upon this site. Even though you say the people I mentioned don't like each other it is a fact that I get on very well with them all, save and except Puru das Prabhu. At the same time I'm very certain that Puru das is sincerely following his Gurudev and Sri Gauranga. Also, I'm still uncertain what particular thing you are talking about, when you say I have said negative things about Ananta das Babaji. In regard to googling to find references for Ananta das Babaji making statements about how the parampara of Prabhupada Srila Saraswati Thakur is not genuine, I firmly believe Ananta das Babaji has said this to people. I went through all this stuff years ago. Five years ago. It logically follows that Ananta das Babaji would say our parampara is invalid, of course, since he believes in the siddha-pranali theory while Prabhupada Srila Saraswati Thakur never told any of his disciples the siddha-pranali of Gaur-kisore-das-babaji. Uhhhhh.... It doesn't matter what Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura did or didn't practice. Prabhupada Srila Saraswati Thakur, Srila Sridhar Maharaj and A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada didn't advocate that practice. Have I read the books of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura? Since you ask, I will say this. I consider the books of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura to be the most important books I have read. More important, even, than the books of Srila Sridhar Maharaj. And if anyone knows me at all then they will know that I am an exclusively dedicated [insignificant] disciple of Srila Sridhar Maharaj.

Dandavats, All glory to Sri Guru and Gauranga. I do not know anyone called Radha Govinda dasa or Caitanya Nitai dasa. I might say I'm a little suspicious that someone would publish an open letter addressed to me on this forum. Someone who I don't know is inviting me to enter into a public discussion where my thoughts and beliefs are to be publicly examined. Hiding their real identity, someone may be using these names "Radha Govinda dasa" and "Caitanya Nitai dasa" as a cover. I just don't know... Anyhow having said that, I am not certain I know what you are talking about in regard to Ananta das Babaji either. Could you be more specific? I have never met Ananta das Babaji. Moreover, I have no desire to meet him. Perhaps it might seem arrogant to say I have no desire to meet Ananta das Babaji (or some other individual who some people regard as Vaishnava or sadhu). But I am an initiated disciple of Srila Bhakti Rakshak Sridhar Dev Goswami Maharaj and a descendent of Prabhupada 108 Sri Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura; and in view of some things I know Ananta das Babaji has said about Prabhupada Srila Saraswati Thakura I have no desire to see Ananta das Babaji. Specifically, Madhavananda das is an initiated disciple of Ananta das Babaji and Madhavananda has said Ananta das Babaji told him that the disciples in the lineage of Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura do not have a proper guru-parampara. I have read statements by other disciples of Ananta das Babaji saying the same thing. I guess I could go googling to find the exact statements. But why should I bother spending my time doing that? If you want to go and listen to Ananta das Babaji then go right ahead but I have no desire to enter into that kind of association. For several years I engaged in long, extensive debates with Madhavananda, Jagadananda, Minaketana Ramdas, Nitai das Delmonico, Premananda, Gaurasundara and other people who believe in the siddha-pranali notion taught by Ananta das Babaji and other like-minds. I was outraged and deeply disturbed by the allegations and viciousness of the attacks these people were making against my Guru-varga. Along with many others such as Puru das, Bhakti Vikasa Swami, Bhakti Sudhir Goswami, Narasingha Maharaj, etc. I spent many hours (years) of thought examining the arguments these "anti-party" individuals were presenting. The most extreme and abusive statements were made against Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura and Srila Saraswati Thakura. Again and again I responded to "posts" written by this vicious bunch of scholarly critics. Was it worth it? Perhaps not. But then again... I really believe Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura was pleased by the way those years of debate came to a climax and final conclusion. Jagadananda admitted the link between Bipin Bihari and Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura was severed. It became clear as daylight on these internet forums that it was not the siddha-pranali school and Lalita Prashad who are the real descendents of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura. Instead, Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura is the real heir of the spiritual tradition of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura. The siddha-pranali tradition of Ananta das Babaji is a hoax. Ditto to the so-called "raganuga bhakti" that the siddha-pranali tradition is teaching. If some "few ISKCON Swamis" want to attend the classes of Ananta das Babaji then good luck to them. What they do is none of my business and I'm not interested in slinging insults at them. But what I am convinced about is that Srila Saraswati Thakura, the true heir of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, did not teach his disciples to follow the type of sadhana that the followers of "ekadasa bhava" follow, and moreover that I don't need to go to Ananta das Babaji or anyone else of his tradition in order to learn about ekadasa bhava, siddha-pranali or anything else. Srila Saraswati Thakura is my hero and I'm not interested in associating with people who minimize the greatness of him. cira-gaura-janasraya-visva-gurum guru-gaura-kisoraka-dasya-padam paramadrta-bhaktivinoda-padam pranamami sada prabhupada-padam "Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Prabhupada is the eternal shelter and the Universal Guru for the souls surrendered unto Sri Gauranga. Absorbed in the service of his Gurudeva, Sri Gaura Kisora, he wholeheartedly adores Sri Bhaktivinoda Thakura. I make my obeisance unto him; perpetually do I make my obeisance unto the effulgence emanating from the toenails of the holy feet of my Lord." - sanskrit verse by Srila Sridhar Dev Goswami Maharaj

1) So Sridhara Maharaja and his two associate gentlemen unauthorizedly selected one acarya and later on it proved to be a failure. Srila Sridhar Maharaj was not a member of the Gaudiya Math GBC. Srila Sridhar Maharaj said he would accept whatever decisions the GBC made in relation to the future directions of the Gaudiya Math. Srila Sridhar Maharaj was not present in the meeting where the GBC split (Anatavasudeva's group against Bhaktivilasa Tirtha). He did not vote when the majority voted to make Anatavasudeva the Acharya. Why should Srila Sridhar Maharaj be criticized for something he did not do? To spread false allegations about someone is what we call slander. 2) So his (Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur's) idea was that amongst the members of the GBC who would be successful a self-effulgent acarya would be automatically selected Note that Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada said here that the self-effulgent acarya would be someone "amongst the members of the GBC". One of the GBC would be "self effulgent". The GBC did select a person who they felt was "self-effulgent". The majority picked Anatavasudeva. Again, I repeat, Srila Sridhar Maharaj was not present in the meeting. Srila Sridhar Maharaj did not vote for Anantavasudeva. 3) Sridhara Maharaja is responsible for disobeying this order of Guru Maharaja, and he and two others who are already dead unnecessarily thought there must be one acarya. Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada takes the view that that there should not have been one acarya. This position was argued in that GBC meeting by Bhaktivilasa Tirtha. When Anantavasudeva and his supporters refused to accept this, Bhaktivilasa Tirtha objected. Together with Bon Maharaj and Paramananda Vidyaratna, they walked out. This point of dispute was THE reason the Gauidya Math broke up. Bhakti Dayita Madhava Goswami Maharaj was a Gaudiya Math GBC member who sided with Anantavasudeva. He also wanted to have many acharyas, but he sided with the majority. He voted with Anantavasudeva to maintain unity of the GBC. That was his decision. But the fact remains, Srila Sridhar Maharaj was not a member of the GBC, he didn't vote, and he only told people "I will abide by the decisions of the GBC". Why is he blamed for breaking up the Gaudiya Math? That type of attack against him is totally unwarranted. Anantavasudeva and his allies, who were a majority in that Gaudiya Math GBC committe, those men were not puppets controlled by Srila Sridhar Maharaj. Srila Sridhar Maharaj had no power, no vote, and no membership of the GBC. Anantavasudeva and his allies voted to make one person, Anantavasudeva the acharya. Why blame Srila Sridhar Maharaj for something Anantavasudeva and his allies did when they voted together in that meeting. This sort of slanderous attack is wrong.

In the beginning, during the presence of Oḿ Viṣṇupāda Paramahaḿsa Parivrājakācārya Aṣṭottara-śata Śrī Śrīmad Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura Prabhupāda, all the disciples worked in agreement; but just after his disappearance, they disagreed. One party strictly followed the instructions of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, but another group created their own concoction about executing his desires. Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, at the time of his departure, requested all his disciples to form a governing body and conduct missionary activities cooperatively. He did not instruct a particular man to become the next ācārya. But just after his passing away, his leading secretaries made plans, without authority, to occupy the post of ācārya, and they split into two factions over who the next ācārya would be. Consequently, both factions were asāra, or useless, because they had no authority, having disobeyed the order of the spiritual master. Despite the spiritual master's order to form a governing body and execute the missionary activities of the Gauḍīya Maṭha, the two unauthorized factions began litigation that is still going on after forty years with no decision. - purport to Adi-lila Chapter Twelve, Text 8. In this quote we find that the secretaries being blamed for the break up of the Gaudiya Math. Anantavasudeva, Kunjabihari and Paramananda Vidyaratna were the secretaries. Srila Sridhar Maharaj was not a secretary to Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura. This quote in fact contradicts the things said against Srila Sridhar Maharaj in the letter to Rupanuga.

Letter to Rupanuga 28 Apr, 1974 I do not wish to discuss about the activities of my godbrothers, but it is a fact that they have no life for preaching work. All are satisfied with a place for residence in the name of a temple, they engage disciples to get foodstuffs by transcendental devices and eat and sleep. They have no idea or brain how to broadcast the cult of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. My Guru Maharaja used to lament many times for this reason and he thought that if one man at least had understood the principle of preaching then his mission would achieve success. In the later days of my Guru Maharaja he was very disturbed. Actually, he left this world earlier, otherwise he would have continued to live for many years. Still he requested his disciples to form a strong governing body for preaching the cult of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. He never recommended anyone to be acarya of the Gaudiya Math. But Sridhara Maharaja is responsible for disobeying this order of Guru Maharaja, and he and two others who are already dead unnecessarily thought there must be one acarya. If Guru Maharaja could have seen someone who was qualified at that time to be acarya he would have mentioned. Because on the night before he passed away he talked of so many things, but never mentioned an acarya. His idea was that acarya was not to be nominated amongst the governing body. He said openly that you make a GBC and conduct the mission. So his idea was that amongst the members of the GBC who would be successful a self-effulgent acarya would be automatically selected. So Sridhara Maharaja and his two associate gentlemen unauthorizedly selected one acarya and later on it proved to be a failure. The result is that now everyone is claiming to be acarya even though they may be kanistha adihikary with no ability to preach. In some of the camps the acarya is being changed three times a year. Therefore we may not commit the same mistake in our ISKCON camp. Actually amongst my godbrothers no one is qualified to become acarya. So it is better not to mix with my godbrothers very intimately because instead of inspiring our students and disciples they may sometimes pollute them... They cannot help us in our movement, but they are very competent to harm our natural progress.

I know I have a debt to Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. But then when I read the letter to Rupanuga where he was criticizing Srila Sridhar Maharaj I lost the faith I had in him. He asserted that Srila Sridhar Maharaj caused the break-up of the Gaudiya Math and that " Sridhar Maharaja is responsible for disobeying this order of Guru Maharaja". But I know for certain that Srila Sridhar Maharaj was never a member of the Gaudiya Math GBC and he was not present at the GBC meeting where Anantavasudeva and Bhaktivilasa Tirtha had breakup and broke up the Gaudiya Math. To assert that Srila Sridhar Maharaj caused the breakup of the Gaudiya Math and that he disobeyed his Guru is, well, to use a respectful word, untrue. -Muralidhar das

Thank you too, for showing your understanding. What about this though: "The direct disciple of Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami was Srila Narottama dasa Thakura" and Śrī Lokanātha Gosvāmī was a personal associate of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and a great devotee of the Lord. He was a resident of a village named Tālakhaḍi in the district of Yaśohara (Jessore), in Bengal. Previously he lived in Kācnāpāḍā. His father's name was Padmanābha, and his only sibling was a younger brother named Pragalbha. Following the orders of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Śrī Lokanātha went to Vṛndāvana to live. He established a temple named Gokulānanda. Śrīla Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura selected Lokanātha dāsa Gosvāmī to be his spiritual master, and Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura was his only disciple. Because Lokanātha dāsa Gosvāmī did not want his name mentioned in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, we do not often see it in this celebrated book. (See Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila 18.49.)

Muralidhar wrote: I particularly liked the refence about Bhaktisvarup Damodara Maharaja, who I am sure was a genuine Guru. JNDas wrote to Muralidhar: Yet you have serious doubts about the legitimacy of Srila Prabhupada, his guru, simply because someone posted one letter where he criticized his god brothers. What is the use of such weak or sentimental faith? You will glorify Bhaktiswarup Damodar Maharaj while questioning his own guru.

The message above is in answer to something JNDas wrote to me on another thread. -muralidhar.

I regard Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada as a nitya-siddha Vaishnava Acharya who descended from Goloka to engage the people of this degraded age of Kali in the nirguna kirtana of Sri Krishna's holy names. At the same time, I agree with various ISKCON philosophers who are of the view that Sri Guru, that is Srila Prabhupada, is not an omniscient being. To take it a step further, I believe my own Guru Maharaj, Srila Bhakti Rakhsak Sridhar Dev Goswami Maharaj, made some various kinds of "mistakes" such as forgetting where he put his glasses, and so forth - Guru Maharaj never claimed to be infallible in all matters, and I am not being offensive to him by saying he is not infallible. Further to this, Srila Sridhar Maharaj taught us "no book is without its errors" (quoting Bhaktivinode Thakur) and thus that we are not blind followers of words written in books. Rather, we were taught to look for truth inwardly, and to follow the living senior vaishnavas guidance when matters of dispute in the philosophy of Vaishnavism. You, however, follow the school of thought that nobody should change Prabhupada's books. And that every word in the books is perfectly true and correct. In the books you have statements such as the following untrue statements: "Srila Jagannatha dasa Babaji ... initiated Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura" "Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura ... initiated Srila Gaurakisora dasa Babaji" "The direct disciple of Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami was Srila Narottama dasa Thakura" Think what you like about these statements, but there is no doubt whatosoever that these things are not true. Leave the books as they are if you want. Don't change them. But don't demand that I accept these things are true. Blind faith in books is, to me, completely equivalent to the Islamists view that their book is to be followed as "the only authentic religious code of instruction". In fact Vaishnavas are supposed to look for inner revelation and not be slaves to words written in books - book's statements are open to interpretation. The message of living saints is more valid. Find a sadhu and serve him - he knows best. Thus, I believe Bhaktisvarupa Damodara Maharaj was a better source of knowledge than a council of clowns (or ritviks). Now in regard to that letter to Rupanuga, JNDas, I will tel you what I really think today. In the past I've been cautious. But let my words stay on your public forum this time. People can say that I am scum because I say what I am about to say. Let them brand me as scum. I really don't care. Here is what I really feel: The letter to Rupanuga contains many statments that are patently false. There are untrue things in that letter that I and others see as serious Vaishnava-aparadha. Mostly for the reason that what is written in that letter is an intentional distortion of the real facts of history. We have physical evidence, we have the testimony of witnesses. We know what really happened and what is written in that lette is untrue. No doubt Guru Maharaj forgave him. He saw only the good things in his old friend. But that letter is full of aparadha. It wasn't for no reason at all that Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami asked for forgivenesss from his Godbrothers representative, Puri Maharaj, in his final period on this earth. - Muralidhar das

Message From Guru Maharaja Thu, 17 Aug 2006 08:32:14 +0530 (Note: As heard and noted by Vrajapati Das while Guru Maharaja was speaking from a cell phone, which was not very clear there are some gaps due to poor signal, from the hospital room) Dear Devotees, I pray for Srila Prabhupada's and Lord Krishna's blessings upon you. We are sorry for the sad news from ISKCON Manipur incident. It is due to the unlimited blessings of Sri Sri Radha Krishnachandra that the casualities are relatively less. We sincerely pray for the departed souls and for speedy recovery of the injured. I was supposed to attend URI Global Council Tele conference call when the incident happened. I was delaying to attend the call in order to give company to the important guests and devotees during the Rasalila Performance. I am sitting together with important guests and devotees when the hand grenade was exploded in the pandal. Bhojdeva Prabhu was sitting near to me and he was severely injured. M. M. Singh, and his wife are also sitting near me and got injured. But their grandson could not survive. Also a devotee who was initiated as Brahmin yesterday also could not survive. The child who was playing the role of Lord Krishna was also injured. Liladra Mataji from New York but presently staying in Vrindavan(yesterday initiated as 'Lakshmipriya Devi Dasi'); Kavita Mataji (Indian, staying in Swiss, yesterday initiated as 'Kritida Devi Dasi')and about 30 to 40 local and visiting devotees also got injured. All of them are getting medical treatment in the hospitals. I am also still in the hospital. A chunk of flesh was removed from my hand. About 10:00 AM today, there will be surgery for myself, Bhojdev, Lakshmipriya, Kritida and others who are injured. It was again by the blessings of the Lord that an earlier attempt (5 minutes before the blast in pandal) was not successful. A bomb was thrown into the main temple but did not explode. Had that been exploded inside the temple the causalities would be hundreds. Ramachandra Das saw some stone-like thing coming inside the temple with some sparks but he could not understand at that time. All this reminds us the words of scriptures and the saintly people that this place is full of danger and we should be serious in pursuing the purpose of our human life. Please pray for the departed souls, and for the speed recovery of those who are injured, especially Bhojdeva Prabhu (by his symptoms we are confident that his life will be saved). Please observe nice Janmastami and Vyasapuja of Srila Prabhupada. Hare Krishna! Your well-wisher Bhaktisvarupa Damodara Swami 6:50 AM IST; Aug 17, 2006 hare krishna hare krishna / krishna krishna hare hare hare rama hare rama / rama rama hare hare

Guru Maharaja out of danger Wed, 16 Aug 2006 21:22:01 +0530 Dear Prabhus and Matajis, Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhuapa. Guru Maharaja is discharged from the hospital and is out of danger. There is an injury on his leg. Bhojdeva Prabhu was serious still. We hear that he saved Guru Maharaja, second time in the life of Guru Maharaja. One devotee and a local devotee passed away. 50 are injured. Guru Maharaja and others who are serious will be taken to either Calcutta or Bombay tomorrow. Hare Krishna! Your servant vrajapati das

I offer my sastanga dandabats to the Lotus Feet of Sripad Bhaktisvarupa Damodara Maharaja I pray that he is not badly injured and that he will soon recover. humbly, Muralidhar das

An email I just received::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Dear Prabhus and Matajis, Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhuapa. We just received a call from Ajit Prabhu from Manipur. There was a bomb blast during the Janmastami celebrations inside the pandal. One Devotee, Brahmin Initiated today, also passed away and Bhojdeva Prabhu (ACBSP) is injured and his condition is serious. Many people also seriously injured. Guru Maharaja is also injured and is also in the hospital. Furhter details not known now. Please pray for the protection of the Lord. Please do not make calls here now. Phone may be needed for urgent calls. Hare Krishna! Your servant vrajapati das

OK But Jagat, really it is absurd or a bit heavy handed to say you know someone better than a person who was intimately connected to them. This is a similar problem as I am facing elsewhere. Someone who never associated with my Guru Maharaj says they are his "siksa-disciple" and that they know him better than the people who were my Guru Maharaj's constant associates. You must see how it irks me. If I were to say that I know someone, for example, Kesava Maharaj, better than one of his disciples who lived with him, then people would say I am being stupid. But this sort of nonsense is going on. Anyhow, I guess that is it, isn't it? I notice from the statistics that I have posted 199 posts on this forum. I would like to make my exit now and never post a comment number 200. Bye

"One of his (Jayadeva's) famous books is Gita-Govinda, which is full of transcendental mellow feelings of separation from Krishna. ... "Sri Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura comments in this connection that such feelings of separation as Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu enjoyed from the books of Vidyapati, Chandidasa and Jayadeva are especially reserved for persons like Sri Ramananda Raya and Svarupa Damodara, who were paramahamsas, men of the topmost perfection, because of their advanced spiritual consciousness. Such topics are not to be discussed by ordinary persons imitating the activities of Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu." — Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaj Prabhupada (Sri Chaitanya-charitamrita purport. CC Adi 13.42) Jagat, Please stop saying you know Saraswati Thakur's thinking better than Srila Sridhar Maharaj, who knew him, lived with him, and dedicated his life to him. Your statements along those lines are absurd. While in response to your statements about Freud, rasa and wotnot, I really find it odd that you are quoting Freud Freud is of little importance these days in the academia I am familiar with. At least in my country. (My wife teaches literary theory and postmodernism for a job, by the way). I wrote a Thesis on Lacan when studying for my degree (fifteen years ago). My degree is in Media-Communications and I studied psych because if you understand Psych you understand much better how Media-communications has an impact on society and individuals. I did a critique of Freud and Jung in my thesis, arguing from Lacan's perspective (Lacan considered himself to be a Freudian but he de-emphasised the sex issue in favour of LACK and that was really a very deep shift from Freud). In what I wrote, I was going with the flow of my contemporaries -- Freud was wrong in his analysis about the basic drives that motivate people. Jung, also, was basing his premises on unprovable and unscientific hypotheses. Lacan talks about hunger, lack, and need. Well, I still have some sympathy for Lacan's ideas. But Freud? Honestly, mate. Why hang on to his sex philosophy? There are many more important things in the struggle of life than sex. I came back because I believe we ought to finish our conversation. If you are finished talking to me, please say so. I will be glad to finish this. I would wish that the statement below is my final statement to you here. So let me say goodbye with this, Jagat:

Jagat, I have decided I won't be looking back at this page again. If you want to continue this conversation you can contact me at sydney {at} scsmath.com

I can say one thing for sure. The person who wrote the statement above has no connection whatsoever with Srila Bhakti Sundar Govinda Maharaj.

bahu-bhagye keha sei dughasvada paya chidananda-deha labhi krsna-loka yaya "Sometimes, by great fortune, someone will get to taste the water of Govinda Kunda as the milk of Surabhi, the divine cow, attain a transcendental form, and go to Krishna Loka." From the Sri Govinda Kunda Mahima, translation by Srila Govinda Maharaj

Jagat it is true there are many wonderful things in the scriptures, such as Kaviraj Goswami's commentary to ahus ca te nalina-nabha padaravindam yogesvarair hrdi vicintyam agadha-bodhaih samsara-kupa-patitottaranavalambam geham jusam api manasy udiyat sada nah But these are not things that people should discuss in chat sessions. The highest acme of devotional life, and it becomes an item of discussion for people who are engaged in mudane life! Even the rishis who are engaged for meditation in siddha-loka for aeons and aeons don't get to hear about the Name of Srimate. How many aenos will it be, before they hear the Gaura-sankirtana? Before they hear about how Sri Radhika has become a brahmana and become engaged in service of Tota-Gopinatha. As Gadadhara Pandit, the Absolute Being (one aspect of the five, the five aspects in Panca Tattva (bhakta-akhyam)) was told "You cannot go to Vrindaban" -- what degree of surrender, vipralambha and bliss was there in that Brahmana serving Tota Gopinath? Do the siddhas understand that? NO, The siddhas are all so exalted, so why should a worm like me think he has should have the ability to, like an epicure, dally in readings about aesthetic wonders such as madhura-rasa. Have I undestood how the brahmana serving in the Gaura-kirtan is feeling, when the brahmana in Gaura-lila is looking up towards the Vraja-lila on the slopes of Govardhana? Have I undestood the things the brahmana said, when he was reading bhagavatam and washing the words off the pages with the tears falling like a stream from those lotus eyes? I belong within the Sankirtan group who are Gaura-bhaktas and who are listening to the Gaura-kirtan. Somewhere in this group doing Gaura-kirtana there is that brahmana who serves Tota-Gopinatha. Should I go off to Radha-kunda when I know that brahmana is in Puri crying tears that flow like a river. Who is that Brahmana? Who am I? Should I go to a pancaratrika-mantra trader and get him to sell me a siddha-deha for a cheap price? So many things are bubbling around in my mind. It is best if I simply chant my prescribed number of rounds, concentrating on the sound (as my Guru taught) instead of trying to "picture" things with my mind. Gaurahari bol!

Jagat I didn't mean to rude but if I put the words there in a straightforward way I am simply speaking about a plain and simple fact. No offence intended but you get the gist of what I mean to say, I hope.

The meaning you have given is the same one we have heard from Guru Maharaj. My commentary here is that Guru Maharaj taught us we should always seek to be in the servitor group and not in the group who feel some more bold feelings than that of the servitors.

This shows how far apart we really are Jagat. I have been told that I should not "seek" (desire to aquire attainments such as Prema (which the Lord can grant or not grant according to His Sweet Will)) but that I should "serve". That is, in Srila Sridhar Maharaj's words, become "self forgetful". Or in other words, "Die to Live".

Can you advise me which verse of BRS state this. If this were the case, how does this relate to your statement "How then can I consider as an ultimate authority a person who states that he never read Rupa Goswami's most important contribution, Ujjvala-nilamani?" But then, if I say "OK", should married me engaged in sex should study madhura rasa but not babajis? Maybe the monkey babajis who have girlfriends (or widows) as their consorts are doing the right thing to improve the quality of their bhajan. Does this naturally follow on from what you say? Not meaning to be harsh, Jagat, and not meaning any personal critique, but the question is fair, isn't it?

I want to also bring attention to another aspect of this thing you said, Jagat. Das Goswami said: sakhyaya te mama namo'stu namo'stu nityam dasyaya te mama raso'stu raso'stu satyam This verse is also found in Sudhir Goswami's "Getting Beyond Narayan". He didn't elaborate on this when he quoted it, but for those who know Guru Maharaj's teachings just the mention of that verse brings up a whole panorama and a scenery we see through insight, remembering what Guru Maharaj revealed to us. This verse, factually, is one of Srila Saraswati Thakur's most favourite quotes, according to my Guru Maharaj. Your logic is strange, Jagat. Your logic seems to be "How can these devotees who are constantly feeling lowly and insignificant ever get raga?" But my Guru Maharaj taught us that this approach, this realizing that we are lower than worms, in relativity to the chintamani realm where every person is "Guru" to us, this approach is the very mood of Das Goswami himself. If we appreciate his mood, perhaps then we will get to render service within his group of servitors. sakhyaya te mama namo'stu namo'stu nityam dasyaya te mama raso'stu raso'stu satyam