Puru_Das

If you go to this google newsgroup you can find a comprehensive answer to your question, submitted as a FAQ. http://groups.google.comsoc.religion.vaishnava?lnk=rgh excerpt: Frequently Asked Questions: * What is (a) Gaudiya? The term 'GauDiiya' means 'of GauDa-deSa', GauDa-deSa being an old name for West Bengal. Gaudiya Vaishnavism originated in what is now West Bengal, and is still very widely practiced there and in what is now Bangladesh. * Who is the founder of Gaudiya Vaishnavism? Gaudiya Vaishnavism as a widespread movement of bhakti or devotion was begun by Sri Chaitanya Mahaaprabhu (see http://www.goloka.com/gallery/html/cait01.html), who appeared in West Bengal in the late 15th century. He is accepted by all Gaudiya Vaishnavas as an incarnation of Krishna but in the "hidden" role of a devotee of Krishna, and this is supported by references from Srimad-Bhaagavatam, the Chaitanya Upanishad of the Atharva Veda, the Mahaabhaarata, and other scriptures. Gaudiya Vaishnavism was certainly influenced by many earlier personalities, such as Maadhavendra Puri (who also represents the connection of Gaudiya Vaishnavism to the Maadhva sampradaaya coming from Srimad Ananda Tiirtha or Madhvaachaarya) (see http://www.rit.edu/~mrreee/madhva/index.html) and Jayadeva Goswami, Chandiidaasa and Vidyaapati. Though Sri Chaitanya Mahaaprabhu was a great scholar, He left only 8 verses, called the shikshaashhTakam. His followers, most notably the Six Goswamis of Vrindavan (see http://www.goloka.com/gallery/html/rupsan.html), wrote numerous books setting down the tenets and rituals of Gaudiya Vaishnavism with support from scripture. rest of article is here: http://groups.google.comsoc.religion.vaishnava/browse_thread/thread/9b360f82caa6ca5d/0b0134e883797803#0b0134e883797803

<CENTER>Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj And Srila Narayan Maharaj </CENTER><CENTER>By Giridhari Das http://bvml.org/SGGM/sggmasnm.htm </CENTER>Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj glorifies Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayan Maharaj Eager to know more about the auspicious meeting between Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj and Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayan Maharaj in Jagannath Puri five years ago, disciples of nitya-lila-pravista Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj approached Sriman Subal Sakha Prabhu, who was personally present when these two acaryas met. The following account is based on the interview with Subal Sakha prabhu, who is a respected, senior member of the Gaudiya Vedanta Samiti: "In 1993 or 1994 Srila Narayan Maharaj stayed in the House of Singhania in Jagannath Puri. About 5.00 pm Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj arrived there with the intention to meet Srila Narayan Maharaj. As soon as Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj saw Srila Narayan Maharaj, he offered his full prostrated sastanga-dandavat pranams. Srila Narayan Maharaj humbly responded to this Vaisnava gesture, telling him that he is not qualified to receive so much respect from him: "You are staying in Jagannath Puri dham, so you are near and dear to Sri Jagannath. Please give me your blessings." Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj answered promptly answered: "No, you should bless me as you have come from Vraja, the topmost dhama." In this way they were exchanging affectionate words in a friendly and humorous mood. Finally Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj asked some important questions on: 1) dhama-tattva 2) Why did Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu reside in Jagannath Puri for 18 years, and especially 12 years in Gambhira? 3) What is the mood of Srimati Radharani when she sees Krsna in Kuruksetra ? Srila Narayan Maharaj then disclosed all the rasika purports of these questions. He especially quoted and explained two slokas from the Srimad Bhagavatam (10.82.48 and 10.82.39). As Subal Sakha Prabhu was sitting in front of Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj, he witnessed how Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj listened: "He was listening with utmost concentration, not uttering a single word. His face complexion changed, taking on a beautiful reddish colour and tears were coming from his eyes." After Srila Narayan Maharaj completed his exposition, Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj only said this much: "When I come to Vrindavan, I MUST SEE YOU!" He then confided Maharaj that he always wanted to speak more about these topics but the leaders of his institution were opposing him. Srila Narayan Maharaj encouraged him saying: "You are so fortunate to have such an exalted Guru in the line of Rupa Gosvami. If we don't speak about the pastimes of Bhagavan, what else shall we speak ?". When Subal Sakha prabhu accompanied Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj to his riksha, he asked for his blessings. Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj responded: "You are already so fortunate to have the association of such an elevated rasika-guru." Then with a very sweet smile on His face he waved his hands and departed. Some of Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja's disciples have witnessed how their spiritual master would fold his hands and bow his head with respect, as soon as he heard the name of Srila Narayan Maharaj. He once even announced. "Srila Narayan Maharaj is so many life-times more advanced than me !" Sriman Govinda Bhakta, a prominent disciple of Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj, recalls. "Whenever I gave him a book of Srila Narayan Maharaj, he would immediately read it on the very same day, from cover to cover. Then on the next day he would give a lecture on that book." Because of their intimate relationship, it was Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayan Maharaj who installed the murti of Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj in the Krishna-Balaram mandir in Bhubaneshvar. By the arrangement of Sri Guru and Krishna the majority of Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj disciples have taken shelter at the lotus feet of Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayan Maharaj. Ananta-koti-vaishnava-vrnda ki jaya! <HR><CENTER>Return to</CENTER>

<CENTER>Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj Did Meet Srila B.V. Narayan Maharaj </CENTER><CENTER>by Giridhari Das http://bvml.org/SGGM/sggmdmsbvnm.htm </CENTER>Dear Rasikananda Prabhu, Please accept my humble obeisances. Sri Guru-Gaurangau jayatah ! It is an irrefutable fact that Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj met Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayan Maharaj, when His Divine Grace stayed in Jagannath Puri in the house of Singhania. The dates I have presented might be incorrect (1994 or 1995 ?), but these are really external considerations. I think it is more important, at least to my understanding, how these two acaryas dealt with each other and what they spoke. For this reason I have interviewed an eyewitness, Sriman Subal Sakha Prabhu, a senior disciple of Srila Bhaktivedanta Vaman Maharaj who serves in Keshavji Gaudiya Math Mathura, during Srila Gurudeva's preaching tour in Holland this summer. About one dozen Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja's disciples were present at that time. Sriman Govinda Bhakta Prabhu, temple president of Gour Govinda Gaudiya Math, Birmingham, taped this gosthi. As far as I can remember Subal Sakha Prabhu mentioned that a brahmacari-disciple of Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj was also present there, but he couldn't recall his name. The conversation between these two acaryas was in Hindi and lasted nearly an hour. If you want to know more, why don't you consult Subal Sakha prabhu? I forgot to say, however, that this meeting was gupta, secret, as the GBC forbade Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj to closely associate with Vaisnava acaryas outside of GBC-ruled ISKCON. So, it is no wonder that you haven't found any written records of that meeting. If the GBC knew about it, they would have pressurized him even more. Anyhow, prior to being banned from GBC-ISKCON he left that kanistha-institution for good. And so have many faithful disciples of His Divine Grace, in order to join ISKCON as it is. The GBC could never accept Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja's teachings on jiva-tattva, guru-tattva, rasa-tattva etc. You can imagine how the GBC was upset when they read following words by Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja in Krishna-Kathamrta: "In Ujjvala-nilamani, our authority, Rupa Gosvami, who is known as the rasa-acarya, gives the definition of prema...Prabhupad has said it in one line, but it has a very deep purport to it. Rupa Gosvami has explained it in Ujjvala-nilamani, but unless you understand that, how can you understand Prabhupad ? "Oh, Prabhupada's books are there, I will just read them and understand it." But how can you understand these points ? No, Prabhupad gave a very short purport here, but so many things are there." (lecture on Bhagavad-gita, June 1, 1993) Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayan Maharaja preaches these same tattvas, and is also heavily criticized by the GBC. Rasikananda prabhu, you will surely understand that many of your god-brothers and god-sisters don't want to be part of an institution governed by a Guru-aparadhi GBC. The main motive, however, why many of Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja's initiated disciples and aspirant disciples are taking siksa and diksa from Srila Narayan Maharaj is, that they are confident that their bhakti-lata will grow under his expert guidance. After all, sadhu-sanga is the birth-place of bhakti. There is no doubt that Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj regarded Srila Narayan Maharaj as an elevated Vaisnava acarya. He is certainly happy that Srila Gurudeva takes care of his sisyas. Otherwise what hope is there that our bhakti will grow without sadhu-sanga? I request you to read the VNN article of Aug 8 again like a sara-grahi (one who takes the essence), and not like a bhara-grahi (one who gives only importance to external considerations). Some further observations inspired by interesting comments to your letter in "VNN forum": The statements which Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj made about not leaving ISKCON were made in 1992 and 1994. At that time the GBCs have been more or less free to worship Srila Narayan Maharaj as their siksa-guru. In the book Sri Navadvip-dham parikrama published by Gaudiya Vaisnava Press there is a picture which shows Srila Narayan Maharaj giving a lecture in a packed temple hall of the ISKCON Mayapur Candrodaya Mandir. That was in 1993. However, at the annual GBC meeting at 1995, when it became an official ISKCON mandate that the members were to no longer associate with Srila Narayan Maharaja, Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj did not approve of this and said that he would challenge the GBC to a debate on this issue. Unfortunately, Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj left this planet prior to the annual GBC meeting in 1996. After that meeting the GBC passed the infamous resolutions against Srila Narayan Maharaj, calling him a sahajiya who should be avoided. This paper was then sent to all ISKCON centers. I am confident that Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja with his bold and uncompromising nature would have strongly opposed this superlative vaisnava-aparadha. But again, he himself was about to be banned from GBC ISKCON. So, it is significant to note the contrast of Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja's feelings on the "Don't leave ISKCON-matter" before the 1995 meeting and after. The GBC resolutions of 1996 say that Srila Narayan Maharaj is a sahajiya. ISKCON members should not associate with him, nor read his books, nor glorify him. Yet, Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj relished reading his books and lecturing on them, he went to meet Srila Narayan Maharaj in Puri (offering his dandavat-pranams at his lotus-feet and humbly asking him questions related to Radha-Krishna-lila) and he glorified him as an elevated rasika acarya. Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj would have never touched any book written by a sahajiya, what to speak of associating with or glorifying such a person. Rasikananda prabhu and all of you GBC-devoted Gour Govinda Maharaja disciples! Why don't you write any letter against the defamation of Srila Narayan Maharaj by the GBC body. Please follow your Guru Maharaj ! When it comes to vaisnava-aparadha you are either part of the solution or part of the problem. In one letter you reproduced Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj says: "It is a fact that if an elevated Vaisnava is there, ONE SHOULD GO AND TAKE HIS ASSOCIATION." (my emphasis) I conclude my letter here. Vaisnava-dasanudas Giridhari das

Then it is only your supposition that SGGM was making a value judgement concerning Janardana Maharaja's decision to leave iskcon because of gbc aparadhas and politics and take shelter elsewhere Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja did his level best try to please Srila Prabhupada, and could not happily watch as the iskcon mission started to crumble before everyone's eyes However he never compromised Gaudiya tattva or siddhanta to placate gbc politics, and as a result was kicked out of Australia, and "banned" from Europe by both Bhagavan and Harikesa. He was always on the right side of the wrong side of gbc law, and any effort he made to keep iskcon in tact should not be misunderstood A careful read of his last public lecture makes his understanding of what iskcon should have been very clear. A Society Without Envy<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> by Srila Gour Govinda Mahar http://bvml.org/SGGM/aswe.htm

The excerpt from Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja's Bhubaneswara lecture is dated l992. Srila Bhakti Raksak Sridhar Maharaja entered maha samadhi on August 12th, 1988 SGGM was unhappy with the use of His Divine Grace Srila A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada's picture appearing in a publication printed by some of Srila Bhakti Sundar Govinda Dev-Goswami Maharaj's disciples. He felt they were using his diksa guru's picture in an effort to recruit devotees from iskcon's ranks. He was unhappy about anyone who: ". . . are now criticising ISKCON, criticising Srila Prabhupada, committing such great offense. " Why conclude that SGGM was committing aparadha when he is actually concerned about those who were doing exactly that? In the other excerpt posted by Rasikananda, the devotee asked SGGM about someone who left iskcon to be "reinitiated." Was that question an accurate description of Sripad Janaradana Maharaja's behavior.? He took a sannyasa name from SBRSM,and siksa from him, in a similar way that some other iskcon sannyasis also did. Have any of them ever "rejected" their diksa guru. I don't believe they would agree that is the case. The question may have been pointing to the actions of an individual, but seems to me SGGM's answer was directed at the princple of guru tyagi and not at any individual. He said: " That means he belittled Prabhupada. Left Prabhupada,saying he is not a bona fide guru. That means he has committed a great offense, an inexcusable offense. . . " The inexcusable offense SGGM is pointing to is applicable only to someone who did that, "belittled Prabhupada and left saying he was not bona fide. . ." We know the names of two such individuals who did exactly that, also rejected SBSST and turned to the babaji camp and continue to preach on their behalf today. SP often answered questions this way, almost ignoring the direct inquiry and only speaking in a way to benefit the listener with a deeper answer than the question even asked,or to address another point altogether "It may be noted that Srila Gour Govinda Swami also had a siksa guru in the Gaudiya Matha, whose name was Bhakti Charan das Babaji Maharaja, from the Kendrapura Gaudiya Matha. Gurudeva would visit him sometimes, and sometimes his siksa guru would visit him. Beside this, he had another close friend from the Gaudiya Matha named Sriniketan Maharaja, who would sometimes come and stay in our Iskcon temple. "Does that mean my Guru also left Iskcon (according to Rasikananda.)?" Dear readers please try and understand that leaving Iskcon means giving up Krsna and chanting and instead engaging in sinful activities. It does not mean receiving sadhu sanga from the line of the 6 Gosvamis and Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura." http://bvml.org/SGGM/iani.htm Jagadish Pandit

Read what Rasikananda says SGGM said as you will. His material is suspect. It is crystal clear that his motive in offering that VNN article was clearly to discourage sincere devotees from taking sadhu-sanga outside of iskcon.Why do you believe him. Did you bother to read Jagadish Pandit's responce? Looks to me that Rasikananda was making the offense to SBRSM by misrepresenting his spiritual master's mood and likely distorting his words Can we find a tape to verify Rasikananda's account, otherwise why should we accept it? Why you feel so impelled to commit Vaisnava aparadha in the name of exposing the same is another mystery. BTW when were you initiated and where?

this Vnn article was posted by Rasikananda prabhu. Read in its entirety. Try to understand the perspective of the person offering the excerpts. http://www.vnn.org/editorials/ET9908/ET20-4547.html One direct responce to his article is posted here: Iskcon And Non-Iskcon by Jagadisa Pandit Dasa It is easy enough to see that SGGM was concerned that iskcon should not disintegrate. Even in the letters he doesn't reject sadhu sanga, or criticise Srila Sridhar Mahraja. He was clearly pained by criticisms of His Divine Grace and saddened that anyone felt impelled to leave iskcon. You can also read at the end of the VNN article that Rasikananda can't quite believe that SGGM visited Srila B.V. Narayana Maharaja in Puri. You can read the other perspective on that issue here: Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj And Srila Narayan Maharaj by Giridhari Das Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj Did Meet Srila B.V. Narayan Maharaj by Giridhari Das I question the reliability and slant of the material posted by Rasikananda . And who are you? and what good do you hope to accomplish by trying to establish that SGGM was offensive to senior Vaisnavas. I don't believe it. But I do believe you have some hidden motive in dragging up old controversies.

I'd like to hear the tape or see the transcripts of such alleged conversations And also who are YOU? An anonymous source of information from where? Here or there from the internet doesn't seem too credible. There are some present day followers of SGGM who would like us to believe he supported the institution above and beyond our siddhanta That is not true either;neither is it true that His Divine Grace institutionalized Gaudiya Vaisnavism when he started his iskcon mission What you allege sounds entirely out of character for someone as Krsna Conscious as SGGM, and implicates him in zonal acarya consciousness and accuses him of Vaisnava Aparadha. I don't believe he was either a victim or adherant of iskcon gbc policies. He cooperated with them, externally, to some extent, for keeping peace in SP's mission. As far as I read in his lectures and books he was against criticising Vaisnavas. Read his last public lecture: http://bvml.org/SGGM/aswe.htm an exceprt: Vaisnava aparadha<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> So who are offenders? Skanda Purana states that there are six types of offenders and they all fall down and go to raurava, naraka (hell). <o:p></o:p> nindam kurvanti ye mudha<o:p></o:p> vaisnavanam mahatmanam<o:p></o:p> patanti pitrbhih sardham<o:p></o:p> maharaurava-samjnite<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> hanti nindati vai dvesthi<o:p></o:p> vaisnavan-nabhi-nandati<o:p></o:p> krudhyate yati na harsam<o:p></o:p> krudhyate yati na harsam<o:p></o:p> darsane patanani sat<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Skanda Purana says, nindam kurvanti ye mudha vaisnavanam mahatmanam --- those who blaspheme a mahatma Vaisnava, they are great offenders. Patanti pitrbhih sardham maharaurava-samhnite - they definitely go to maha-raurava, naraka. Not only them, but pitrbhih (all his ancestors also). The six types of offenders are: those who try to kill a Vaisnava; those who blaspheme a Vaisnava; those who upon seeing a Vaisnava do not pay pranama, obeisances, those who become angry with a Vaisnava; those who develop enmity with a Vaisnava; and those who upon seeing a Vaisnava do not become jolly, but instead curve their faces, "Oh who is he!" They are offenders. Here Prabhupada says, "Instead of being envious of a more qualified man, one should be jolly to receive him." Instead of becoming jolly, such a person becomes envious and covers his face. He is an offender. These six types of offenders fall down to maha-raurava, naraka.

Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja's remarks certainly appear to be aimed at a disciple who rejected Srila Prabhupada directly during his nara lila, a guru tyagi, and not anyone who sought Vaisnava association or a siksa guru outside of iskcon post samadhi, after l977 . SGGM is quoted to say: "That means he belittled Prabhupada. Left Prabhupada,saying he is not a bona fide guru. That means he has committed a great offense, an inexcusable offense. . . ." That is why I said we really need to see all the specifics, names and dates etc Otherwise how are we to fully understand what principle SGGM is discussing? Seems pretty clear that SGGM is talking about the mentality of a guru tyagi, one who rejects a bona fide spiritual master. Names of such individuals are unecessary to repeat. We know that there were some initiated disciples who rejected His Divine Grace, and went to other lineages for instructions. These same persons also rejected the "legitimacy" of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura and opted to follow the "traditional" followers of SCM. Some of them are active on the inernet and you can go here http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/index.php?showforum=67 to examine their perpective if you have any interest. They should not be confused with disciples of His Divine Grace who left institutional iskcon for association from other bona fide followers of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, like Srila Bhakti Raksak Sridhar Maharaja or other bona fide acaryas in the guru parampara.from Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura through SBSST.

Without more specifics(names, time frame etc) SGGM's remarks are left entirely out of context. Such incomplete information makes the false impression that SGGM was a sectarian thinker, which he was not. The iskcon gbc was making preparations to eject him from the iskcon institution because he was simply too Krsna Conscious and too rasika for their taste By Krsna's divine plan, SGGM left the planet before they could eject him Had he stayed with us longer he would have been forced to more openly oppose them, both philosophically and organizationally. He had read Jaiva Dharma and many other Vaisnava granthas (commentaries) in their original languages and knew that the gbc "position" on the fall of the jiva,guru tattva, sadhu-sanga, nama tattva and many other established truths of our sampradaya were innacurate The fact is that Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja accepted a siksa guru from outside of iskcon, after Srila Prabhupada's maha samadhi. He took the kind association of one of Srila Prabhupada's babaji sannyasa god brothers, and even took his disciples with him when he went to visit him. Unfortunately I don't know his name, but can try to find out with a little research.

There is no harm in exposing a Sri Vaisnava to the realizations of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, especially if they have already said they respect Guadiya Vaisnavism. No one expects Sri Vaisnavas to become Gaudiya Vaisnavas. However it has happened in the past. Sree Prabodhananda Saraswati was the contemporary of Sree Chaitanya. He was a native of Southern India and the younger brother of Sree Venkata Bhatta at whose house at Sree Rangam Sree Chaitanya resided for the period of four months during His travels in the South. Sree Prabodhananda Saraswati was the uncle and preceptor of Sree Gopal Bhatta, one of the six Goswamins. They were all Sri Vaisnavas and Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu exposed the entire family to Gaudiya Vaisnavism during his four month stay with them at Sree Rangam. You can read something about it in SB 5.18.23: I don't see any harm in exposing Sri Vaisnavas to this history either. TEXT 23 <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> TEXT <o:p></o:p> sa tvam mamapy acyuta sirsni vanditam karambujam yat tvad-adhayi satvatam bibharsi mam laksma varenya mayaya ka isvarasyehitam uhitum vibhur iti <o:p></o:p> SYNONYMS <o:p></o:p> sah--that; tvam--You; mama--of me; api--also; acyuta--O infallible one; sirsni--on the head; vanditam--worshiped; kara-ambujam--Your lotus hand; yat--which; tvat--by You; adhayi--placed; satvatam--on the head of the devotees; bibharsi--You maintain; mam--me; laksma--as an insignia on Your chest; varenya--O worshipable one; mayaya--with deceit; kah--who; isvarasya--of the supremely powerful controller; ihitam--the desires; uhitum--to understand by reason and argument; vibhuh--is able; iti--thus. <o:p></o:p> TRANSLATION <o:p></o:p> O infallible one, Your lotus palm is the source of all benediction. Therefore Your pure devotees worship it, and You very mercifully place Your hand on their heads. I wish that You may also place Your hand on My head, for although You already bear my insignia of golden streaks on Your chest, I regard this honor as merely a kind of false prestige for me. You show Your real mercy to Your devotees, not to me. Of course, You are the supreme absolute controller, and no one can understand Your motives. <o:p></o:p> PURPORT <o:p></o:p> In many places, the sastras describe the Supreme Personality of Godhead as being more inclined toward His devotees than toward His wife, who always remains on His chest. In Srimad-Bhagavatam (11.14.15) it is stated: <o:p></o:p> na tatha me priyatama atma-yonir na sankarah na ca sankarsano na srir naivatma ca yatha bhavan <o:p></o:p> Here Krsna plainly says that His devotees are more dear to Him than Lord Brahma, Lord Siva, Lord Sankarsana (the original cause of creation), the goddess of fortune or even His own Self. Elsewhere in Srimad-Bhagavatam (10.9.20) Sukadeva Gosvami says, <o:p></o:p> nemam virinco na bhavo na srir apy anga samsraya prasadam lebhire gopi yat tat prapa vimuktidat <o:p></o:p> The Supreme Lord, who can award liberation to anyone, showed more mercy toward the gopis than to Lord Brahma, Lord Siva or even the goddess of fortune, who is His own wife and is associated with His body. Similarly, Srimad-Bhagavatam (10.47.60) also states: <o:p></o:p> nayam sriyo 'nga u nitanta-rateh prasadah svar-yositam nalina-gandha-rucam kuto 'nyah rasotsave 'sya bhuja-danda-grhita-kantha- labdhasisam ya udagad vraja-sundarinam <o:p></o:p> "The gopis received benedictions from the Lord that neither Laksmidevi nor the most beautiful dancers in the heavenly planets could attain. In the rasa dance, the Lord showed His favor to the most fortunate gopis by placing His arms on their shoulders and dancing with each of them individually. No one can compare with the gopis, who received the causeless mercy of the Lord." In the Caitanya-caritamrta it is said that no one can receive the real favor of the Supreme Personality of Godhead without following in the footsteps of the gopis. Even the goddess of fortune could not receive the same favor as the gopis, although she underwent severe austerities and penances for many years. Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu discusses this point with Vyenkata Bhatta in Caitanya-caritamrta (Madhya 9.111-131): "The Lord inquired from Vyenkata Bhatta, 'Your worshipable goddess of fortune, Laksmi, always remains on the chest of Narayana, and she is certainly the most chaste woman in the creation. However, My Lord is Lord Sri Krsna, a cowherd boy engaged in tending cows. Why is it that Laksmi, being such a chaste wife, wants to associate with My Lord? Just to associate with Krsna, Laksmi abandoned all transcendental happiness in Vaikuntha and for a long time accepted vows and regulative principles and performed unlimited austerities.' "Vyenkata Bhatta replied, 'Lord Krsna and Lord Narayana are one and the same, but the pastimes of Krsna are more relishable due to their sportive nature. They are very pleasing for Krsna's saktis. Since Krsna and Narayana are both the same personality, Laksmi's association with Krsna did not break her vow of chastity. Rather, it was in great fun that the goddess of fortune wanted to associate with Lord Krsna. The goddess of fortune considered that her vow of chastity would not be damaged by her relationship with Krsna. Rather, by associating with Krsna she could enjoy the benefit of the rasa dance. If she wanted to enjoy herself with Krsna what fault is there? Why are you joking so about this?' "Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu replied, 'I know that there is no fault in the goddess of fortune, but still she could not enter into the rasa dance. We hear this from revealed scriptures. The authorities of Vedic knowledge met Lord Ramacandra in Dandakaranya, and by their penances and austerities, they were allowed to enter into the rasa dance. But can you tell me why the goddess of fortune, Laksmi, could not get that opportunity? ' "To this Vyenkata Bhatta replied, 'I cannot enter into the mystery of this incident. I am an ordinary living being. My intelligence is limited, and I am always disturbed. How can I understand the pastimes of the Supreme Lord? They are deeper than millions of oceans.' "Lord Caitanya replied, 'Lord Krsna has a specific characteristic. He attracts everyone's heart by the mellow of His personal conjugal love. By following in the footsteps of the inhabitants of the planet known as Vrajaloka or Goloka Vrndavana, one can attain the shelter of the lotus feet of Sri Krsna. However, the inhabitants of that planet do not know that Lord Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Unaware that Krsna is the Supreme Lord, the residents of Vrndavana like Nanda Maharaja, Yasodadevi and the gopis treat Krsna as their beloved son or lover. Mother Yasoda accepts Him as her son and sometimes binds Him to a grinding mortar. Krsna's cowherd boy friends think He is an ordinary boy and get up on His shoulders. In Goloka Vrndavana no one has any desire other than to love Krsna.' " The conclusion is that one cannot associate with Krsna unless he has fully received the favor of the inhabitants of Vrajabhumi. Therefore if one wants to be delivered by Krsna directly, he must take to the service of the residents of Vrndavana, who are unalloyed devotees of the Lord. SB 5.18.23 Purport by HDGACBSP If anyone is sincerely following Ramanjuacarya and wants to worship Laxmi Narayana we cannot object. Murari Gupta could not worship Sri Sri Radha Krsna and give up his Rama seva even after trying to do so at the encouragement of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Every jiva has an eternal svarupa and should follow the principle of sngdha (affectionate) and sajatiya (like minded) association. Still we cannot give up our personal enthusiasm for Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, The Navadwipa Mahatmya and the glories of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu,the Srimad Bhagavatam and Sri Caitanya Caritamrta even if members of other sampradayas or others only want to accept evidence from shruti. We still must accept What Srila Rupa Gosvami advised us: sruti-smrti-puranadi-pancaratra-vidhim vina<o:p></o:p> aikantiki harer bhaktir utpatayaiva kalpate<o:p></o:p> Brahma-yamala, quoted in<o:p></o:p> Sri Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>

<CENTER>Sri Vaikunthapura, Rudradvipa, and Pulina </CENTER><CENTER>All glories to Gauranga and the Panca-tattva! </CENTER><CENTER>All glories to Navadvipa, the abode of Sri Caitanya! </CENTER>Coming to Vaikunthapura, Nityananda Prabhu spoke to Sri Jiva while mildly smiling, "On one side of the eight-petaled Navadvipa is this Vaikunthapura. Listen, without doubt. This is Vaikuntha, the abode of Narayana, situated in the spiritual sky beyond the Viraja River. Maya can never enter this place, where Lord Narayana is served by His energies, Sri, Bhu, and Nila. The effulgence radiating from this spiritual abode is the Brahman. With material vision, people see only the material world. But with his transcendental vision, Narada once saw Narayana manifest as Gaurasundara in this spiritual abode. After seeing this, the best of the munis stayed here for some time. "There is one more confidential story. Ramanujacarya once came to Puri and pleased the Lord with many prayers. Jagannatha appeared before him and said, 'Go and see Navadvipa-dhama, for I will soon appear there in the house of Jagannatha Misra. The entire spiritual sky is situated within one corner of Navadvipa, My very dear abode. As My eternal servant and leading devotee, you should see Navadvipa. Let your students, who are absorbed in dasya-rasa, stay here while you go. Any living being who does not see Navadvipa has been born uselessly. Just one portion of Navadvipa contains Ranga-ksetra. Sri Venkata (Tirupati), and Yadava Acala. O son of Kesava go to Navadvipa and see the form of Gauranga. You have come to the earth to teach bhakti, so let your birth be successful with the mercy of Gaura. From Navadvipa, go to Kurma-sthana and join again with your disciples.' "With folded hands, Ramanuja submitted to Jagannatha, 'In Your narration You have mentioned Gauracandra, but exactly who He is, I do not know. "The Lord mercifully replied to Ramanuja, 'Everyone knows Krsna, the Lord of Goloka. That Krsna, whose vilasa-murti is Narayana, is the Supreme Truth, and He resides in Vrndavana. That Krsna is fully manifest in the form of Gaurahari, and that Vrndavana is fully manifest in the form of Navadvipa-dhama. I eternally reside as Lord Gauranga in Navadvipa, the topmost abode in the universe. By My mercy that dhama has come within Bhu-mandala, yet it remains without a scent of maya. This is the verdict of scripture. If you say that Navadvipa is part of the material world, then your devotion will dwindle day by day. I have placed this spiritual abode within the material world by My desire and inconceivable energy. Simply by reading scriptures one will not get the highest truth, for the highest truth surpasses all reasoning power. Only the devotees can understand by My mercy. ''Hearing this, the sober-minded Ramanuja was agitated with love for Gauranga. He said, 'Lord, Your pastimes are truly astounding. The scriptures cannot know Your opulences. Why isn't gauranga-lila clearly described in the scriptures? When I closely examine the sruti and Puranas, I find only some hint of the Gaura-tattva. After hearing your instructions, my doubts are gone and the sweet mellows of Gauranga's pastimes have arisen in my heart. If You order me, after going to Navadvipa, I will preach gaura-lila throughout the three worlds. I will give people evidence from the hidden scriptures and establish devotional service to Gauranga throughout the universe. Please instruct me. "Seeing Ramanuja's eagerness, Jagannatha said, 'Ramanuja, do not broadcast like this. Keep the confidential pastimes of Gauranga secret. Only after Gauranga has finished His pastimes will the general public receive them. For now, preach dasya-rasa, while in your heart worship Gauranga constantly. "Taking the Lord's advice, Ramanuja secretly cultured his attraction for Navadvipa. So that Gauranga's pastimes were not revealed prematurely, Lord Narayana then led Ramanuja here to Vaikunthapura and mercifully showed Ramanuja His transcendental form served by Sri, Bhu, anti Nila. Ramanuja considered himself fortunate to obtain darsana of his worshipable Lord, when suddenly he saw the Lord assume the enchanting form of Gaurasundara, the son of Jagannatha Misra. Ramanuja swooned at the brilliance of the form. Then Gauranga put His lotus feet on the head of Ramanuja, who was thus divinely inspired and recited prayers of praise. 'I must see Gaura's actual lila on earth. I can never leave Navadvipa!' "Gauranga said, 'O son of Kesava, your desire will be fulfilled. When the Nadia pastimes will be revealed in the future, you will take birth here again. "Gauranga disappeared and Ramanuja, contented, resumed his journey. After some days he arrived at Kurma-sthana and saw the place with his disciples. During his life he preached dasya-rasa throughout South India, while internally he was absorbed in gaura-lila. By Gauranga's mercy, he took birth in Navadvipa as the devotee Sri Ananta. He went to Vallabhacarya's' house and saw the marriage of Laksmipriya and Gauranga. "See the house of Ananta, where many devotees of Narayana gathered. It is well known that the kings of that time established Narayana worship here. As the devotees saw Nihsreyasa Forest, situated on the other side of the Viraja River, they attained unlimited bliss. In this way, while reciting these narrations, they arrived at Mahatpura. Nityananda explained, "This place is Kamyavana of Vraja. See it with great devotion. there were five banyan trees here in ancient rimes, but these have now disappeared. This place is now called Matapura, but according to scripture, the name was previously Mahatpura. When the five Pandavas and Draupadi were living incognito during exile, they came to Gauda-desa, Bengal. While in Ekacakra, Yudhisthira Maharaja had a dream in which the glories of Navadvipa were revealed to him. The next day he became anxious to see the place, so they all happily came here. Seeing the splendor of Nadia, they praised the good fortune of the residents. And while living here for some time, they killed many demons. See, here is Yudhisthira-tila, and here is Draupadi's kunda. Aware of the glories of this place, Yudhisthira stayed here for some time. Then one day in a dream, he saw Gauranga, whose extraordinary form illumined all directions. "Smiling, Gauranga said, 'See My rare form. At your house, I am Krsna, the son of Nanda, and I always stay with you as a friend. This Navadvipa-dhama is the topmost abode, and in Kali-yuga it will manifest and drive away all darkness. As you have all been My servants for a long time, when My pastimes take place, you will again take birth. I will stay with you day and night on the shore of the ocean at Jagannatha Puri in Orissa. Please go now to Orissa, purify the place, and eliminate the suffering of the living entities. "Yudhisthira explained this dream to his brothers. After deliberation, they all went to Orissa. It was painful to leave Navadvipa, but the order of the Lord had to be obeyed. "Madhva and his disciples also stayed here for some time. Gaurasundara mercifully appeared to him in a dream and while smiling said, 'Everyone knows that you are My eternal servant. When I appear in Navadvipa, I will accept your sampradaya. Now, go everywhere and carefully uproot all the false scriptures of the mayavadis. Reveal the glories of worshipping the Deity of the Lord. Later, I will broadcast your pure teachings. "Saying this, Gauracandra disappeared, and Madhva awakened dumbfounded. 'Will I ever see that beautiful golden form again?' he cried. "In reply, a voice from the sky said, 'Worship Me secretly, and you will come to Me.' With this instruction, Madhva went on with great resolution and defeated the mayavadi philosophers." While relating these stories, the party arrived at Rudradvipa and looked around. "Rudradvipa has been cut in two pieces by the Ganges. See how this western island has now moved to the east bank. By the Lord's desire, no one lives on this side now. From here see Sri Sankarapura. Even from a distance, see how it beautifies the bank of the Ganges. When Sankaracarya went out to defeat all opponents, on his way to Navadvipa, he first arrived there. Within his heart, he was the topmost Vaisnava but externally he played the role of a mayavadi, a servant of Maya. Actually, he was an incarnation of Siva, and by the Lord's order he expertly preached a covered form of Buddhism. While engaged in this way, he came to Nadia. "When Sankaracarya came to this place, Gauracandra appeared to him in a dream and mercifully spoke to him in sweet words, 'You are My servant. Following My orders, you are preaching effectively the Mayavada doctrine. But as Navadvipa-dhama is very dear to Me, the Mayavada philosophy has no place here. On My behalf, Vrddha Siva and Praudha Maya spread the imaginary impersonal interpretations of scriptures, but only to those people who envy the devotees of the Lord. In this way I cheat them. Since this Navadvipa-dhama is generally a place for My devotees, not for the envious, you should go somewhere else. Do not contaminate the inhabitants of Navadvipa.' "Realizing the truth about Navadvipa in his dream and with devotion instilled in his heart, he went elsewhere. "In this Rudradvipa, the eleven Rudras reside. Headed by Nila-lohita Siva, the Rudras chant Gauranga's glories and constantly dance in bliss. As the demigods watch their dancing, they become happy and shower flowers from the sky. "One time, Visnusvami came here during the course of his tour to defeat opposing philosophies. He stayed the night with his followers here in Rudradvipa. The disciples began dancing and singing, 'Hari bol' while Visnusvaml recited prayers from the Sruti. Pleased by the discussion of bhakti, Nila-lohita mercifully appeared there. Upon Siva`s arrival in the assembly, Visnusvami became startled. He folded his hands in prayer and recited appropriate praises. Siva spoke to him, 'All of you Vaisnavas are dear to me. Your discussion on devotional service has pleased me. Ask a boon, and I will grant it. There is nothing I will not give to the Vaisnavas. "Visnusvami offered his dandavats and, filled with ecstatic love, he said, 'Give us this one gift; that henceforth we will perfect a sampradaya teaching devotional service. "In great bliss, Rudra consented and named the sampradaya after himself. Thus Visnusvami's sampradaya is called the Rudra-sampradaya. With the mercy of Rudra, Visnusvami staved here and worshipped Gauracandra with a desire to attain love of God. "Gauranga appeared to him in a dream and said, 'By Rudra's mercy you have become My devotee. You are fortunate to attain the treasure of bhakti in Navadvipa. Now go out and preach the philosophy of suddhadvaita (purified monism). The time of. My appearance on earth will soon come. At that time you will appear in the form of Sri Vallabha Bhatta. You will meet Me in Puri, and you will perfect your sampradaya when you go to Mahavana.' "O Jiva! Sri Vallabha is now in Gokula. When you go there, you will be able to see him." Saying this, Nityananda happily went south to Paradanga in Sri Pulina. Here he showed the place where Sri Rasa-mandala and Dhira-samira of Vraja were located. He said, "O Jiva,' this is Vrndavana. One can see the Vrndavana pastimes here." Upon hearing the word 'Vrndavana,' Jiva began trembling and tears flowed from his eyes. The Lord continued, "Gauranga brought His devotees here, and they performed kirtana describing the rasa-lila. The place of the rasa-lila in Vrndavana is situated here on the bank of the Ganges. The rasa-lila pastimes, with the gopis, which are eternally enacted here, are sometimes seen by fortunate persons "'Listen sober-minded one, west of here, see Sri Dhira-samira, a nice place for worship of the Lord. In Vrndavana, Dhira-samira is situated on the bank of the Yamuna, and here it lies on the bank of the Ganges. Actually what you see, however, is not the bank of the Ganges, but that of the Yamuna, which flows on the western side of the Ganges. As this beautiful Pulina lies on the bank of the Yamuna, Visvambhara therefore calls this place Vrndavana. You should know that all the pastime places of Vrndavana are situated within this place. Make no distinction between Vrndavana and Navadvipa nor between Gauranga and Krsna.'' In this way, overwhelmed with ecstatic love, Nityananda Raya took Jiva and showed him around Vrndavana. Then, heading some distance to the north, they spent the night in Rudradvipa. With the lotus feet of Nitai and Jahnava as my only wealth, Bhaktivinoda sings this glorification of Nadia." SNM Ch. 15 FYI, guest, I posted this material once before on a forum and a modern day follower of Ramanujacarya took great acception to Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura's assertions. Sadly not everyone will accept the Nabadwipa Mahatmya of the Thakura to be written in samadhi-bhasya. Apprecaiation of this book requires sraddha in Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura and Lord Nityananda and Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. You can read on these forums that even the divinity of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, rather than being appreciated and understood, can become a matter of debate and contention.

Thre is no reason to suspect that the four sampradaya acaryas did anything but respect and appreciate each other. It seems more important to understand how the four sampradaya acaryas are part of the Supreme Lord's plan to eventually offer the jiva souls the philosphy of acintya beda beda tattva by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, than concerning our selves about the subtle differences between their presentations of visistadvaita, suddadvaita, etc. or if they said anything about each other. These men were surrendered liberated souls, who acted under the direction of the Supreme Lord, and did not present their philosphies with any egoistic motive. The modern day followers of the line from Madhva who do not accept Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu have created some distance between them and the Gaudiyas of today. That is unfortunate. Therefore they may not preach as the Gaudiya followers do concerning the glory of all the 4 sampradaya's, their teachings and their founder-acaryas. What matter? Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura points out in Nabadwipa Mahatmya that all four of the sampradaya acaryas had the darshan of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu in Nabadwipa dhama, and accepted His directions to them to establish their particular schools of thought. "Nimbarka offered his obeisances and humbly introduced himself. Sanat-kumara smiled and said, 'The all-merciful Supreme Lord, knowing that Kali-yuga would be very troublesome, decided to propagate devotional service. He empowered four men with devotional service and sent them into the world to preach. Ramanuja, Madhva, and Visnusvami are three of these men. You are the fourth of these great devotees. Sri, Laksmi, accepted Ramanuja, Brahma accepted Madhvacarya, Rudra accepted Visnusvami, and we, meeting you today, have the good fortune to teach you. . . " "The four brothers gave him the Radha-Krsna mantra and instructed him how to worship Radha and Krsna filled with sentiments of great love, called bhava-marga. Having obtained that mantra, Nimbaditya resided at this sacred place and worshipped according to the injunctions of that samhita. "Radha and Krsna bestowed Their mercy by appearing before Nimbarka. Lighting up all directions and gently smiling, They said, 'You are very fortunate. You have performed sadhana in Navadvipa, Our dear abode. Here We take on one form, as the son of Sacidevi. "While saying this, They combined in one form as Gauranga. Nimbarka was astounded on seeing that form and exclaimed, 'Never have I seen or heard of such a remarkable form anywhere!' "Mahaprabhu said, 'Please keep this form secret now. Just preach krsna-bhakti and the pastimes of Radha and Krsna, for I am very happy in those pastimes. When I appear as Gauranga, I will enjoy educational pastimes. At that time, you will take birth in Kashmir and tour India as a champion scholar out to defeat all opponents. Your name will be Kesava Kasmiri, and you will be celebrated everywhere for your great learning. While wandering on tour, you will come to Mayapur. The learned scholars of Navadvipa will flee when they hear your name, but I will be intoxicated with learning and take pleasure in defeating you. By the mercy of Sarasvati, you will realize My identity, give up your pride, and take shelter of Me. Then I will give you the gift of bhakti and send you out to preach devotional service again. So you can satisfy Me now by preaching the philosophy of dvaitadvaita (monism and dualism), keeping My identity secret." http://bvml.org/SBTP/SNM/rudra2.html Why not examine Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura's Nabadwipa Mahatmya to get the larger picture? http://bvml.org/SBTP/SNM/index.html In chapter 15 SBT gives information how Madhvacarya, Visnuswami and Ramanujacarya were similarly blessed by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and received his darshan and instructions . I put it up with highlights in another post for you.

There is a very thorough explanation of all four of the Vaisnava sampradaya acarya's and the respective philosophies they expounded here, VII THE FOUNDER-ACHARYAS<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> http://bvml.org/contemporary/TCATOTSLSKC/00intro7.html written by a disciple of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, Sri Narayan Das Bhakti Sadhukar [Professor Nishi Kanta , Sanyal, M. A.] and from his book: The Career and Teachings of the Supreme Lord Sree Krishna-Chaitanya. <o:p>http://bvml.org/contemporary/TCATOTSLSKC/index.html</o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p>". . . The views of the four Founder-Acharyas of the respective Vaishnava communities (sampradayas) briefly noticed above, stand in such close and organic relation to the teaching of Sree Chaitanya and to one another that their relationship will be best brought out in course of the narrative and at the proper place, in the light of the philosophy of Sree Chaitanya which, as I have already noticed, reconciles, harmonizes and perfects them. For the present it will be sufficient for our purpose to notice in regard to these four schools that the system of Sree Chaitanya, although it is identical with none of them, either wholly or partially admits the special excellence of certain features of each. Thus, for example, Sree Chaitanya accepts more or less the eternal specific Form of the Divinity as Embodiment of all-existence, all-knowledge and all-bliss sachchidananda nitya Bigraha) of Madhva, the postulations of Ramanuja regarding Divine Power, the principle of unalloyed non-dualism and of Godhead as ‘the All of His Own’ and the eternal dualistic-monotheism of Nimbarka which last has been perfected by Sree Chaitanya into the truly scientific Truth of the Doctrine of inconceivable simultaneous distinction and non difference.<o:p></o:p> The act of Sree Chaitanya in preferring the Brahma community (sampradaya) byHis entry into it as Disciple, to which Sree Madhvacharya also belongs, to the other Vaishnava schools, is explained by the fact that the doctrine of unalloyed differentialism propounded by Sree Madhvacharya which makes the mutual difference, as between, Godhead, individual soul ( jiva) and the material world, definite and permanent and also recognizes their eternal separate existence, keeps all individual souls (jiva) most clearly and frankly at a great distance from the fell disease of absolute monism which is the opposite pole, being the empirical denial of the essence of all theistic thought passing itself off as theism to the insidious seductions of which most worldly people are so easily liable to succumb. We shall return to this important subject in its proper place." Sri Narayan Das Bhakti Sadhukar </o:p><o:p></o:p><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p>Sorry I can't offer any direct statements of Srila Madhavacarya regarding Srila Ramanujacarya. However I can offer you this additional information from </o:p><o:p>Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura 's Nabadwipa Mahatmya,which corroborates the observations of Sri Narayan Das Bhakti Sadhukar but are more simply stated. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Gauranga, is speaking to Nimbarka aka Nimbaditya, the acarya of the Kumara sampradaya "'Later, when I begin the sankirtana movement, I Myself will preach the essence of the four Vaisnava philosophies. From Madhva I will receive two essential items: his complete defeat of the Mayavada philosophy, and his service to the Deity of Krsna, accepting the Deity as an eternal spiritual being. From Ramanuja I will accept two great teachings: the concept of bhakti unpolluted by karma and jnana, and service to the devotees. From Visnusvami's teachings I will accept two main elements: the sentiment of exclusive dependence on Krsna, and the path of raga-bhakti And from you I will receive two excellent principles: the necessity of taking shelter of Radha, and the high esteem for the gopis' love of Krsna.' " </o:p><o:p>http://bvml.org/SBTP/SNM/rudra2.html</o:p>

If you require you can confirm a portion of SBVNM's statement in a book called Sri Gaura Ganoddesha Dipika [The Shining Lamp on the Associates of Sri Gaura] by Kavi Karnapura http://bvml.org/SCM/sggd.html This is a unique work of Kavi Karnapura, describing the other-worldly identities of the prominent associates and followers of Sri Caitanya, who are understood to have descended with Him from Goloka, the Acme of spiritual abodes. 215. This book was written in the year 1498 of the Saka era (corresponding to 1576 A.D.). I pray that those great devotees whose minds are immersed in the nectar of Lord Caitanyacandra's pastimes may read this book critically and correct all its faults. 180. Sri Rupa-manjari, who had been famous in Vrndavana-dhama, appeared as Srila Rupa Gosvami. 181. Rupa-manjari's closest friend, who was known by the names Rati-manjari and Lavanga-manjari, appeared as Srila Sanatana Gosvami, who was honored by everyone, and who was considered to be like an extension of the transcendental body of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Sanatana Kumara, the jewel among the sages, entered the body of Sanatana Gosvami, who is therefore also considered to be an incarnation of Sanatana Kumara. 182. Sivananda Cakravarti, who lived in Vrndavana, is also considered to be an incarnation of Srimati Lavanga-manjari. 184. Ananga-manjari appeared as Srila Gopala Bhatta Gosvami. Some say that Gopala Bhatta Gosvami was actually the incarnation of Sri Guna-manjari. 185. Raga-manjari appeared as Srila Raghunatha bhatta Gosvami, who lived in a cottage by the shore of Radha-kunda. 186. Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami was the incarnation of Rasa-manjari. Some say that Raghunatha das Gosvami was the incarnation of Rati-manjari, and others say he was the incarnation of Bhanumati-devi. 187. Bhugarbha Thakura was the incarnation of Prema-manjari. Lokanatha Gosvami was the incarnation of Lila-manjari. 188. The vraja-gopis Kalavati-devi, Rasollasa-devi, and Gunatunga-devi, who sang the songs composed by Visakha-devi, later appeared as Govinda, Madhavananda, and Vasudeva respectively. . . " Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura revealed his transcendental identity in two of his books, Sri Navadvipa-bhava-taranga and Gita Mala. I was told that one of SBSST's disciples declared his guru's manjari identity and that SBSST confirmed the information as well during his nara lila The Deities of Radha and Krsna installed at SBSST's birth site in Jagannatha Puri, are named Sri Sri Radha Nayana Mani. The pujari there told me that in addition to pointing to SBSST's svarupa that Thakurji's name also means the dark portion of the pupil of Sri Krsna's eye in which the reflection of Srimati Radhika can be seen. . Srila Prabhupada (HDGACBSP)never made any public declaration as to his eternal svarupa, though some believe he revealed it to Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja in Bhubanesara in l976-77, during his last visit there. If you can accept SBVNM as a sad-guru and an acarya then it is not inconceivable to believe he would know the manjari identities of predecessor acaryas by direct realization and understanding of his own eternal transcendental connection to them,otherwise not. Clear from his statement that the svarupa of an acarya cannot be understood by his disciples cheaply, and only those who are qualified to realize it by the strength of their own sadhana, bhajana and adhikara and ultimately the mercy of Sri Guru and Gauranga can actually understand and digest such information.

Indeed. SBRSM's remarks very clearly guide us to stay within our guru varga and not be influenced by prakrta sahajiya conceptions. "For our own interest, whatever we find which is akin to what was given to us by our guru maharaja, whatever we find that will enlighten us further, and whatever will help us to understand more clearly what we heard from our guru maharaja, must be accepted." It still behooves us to maintain a sectarian attitude toward the bona fide guru parampara, that comes in the line of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarsavati Thakura despite abuses outside that line in the name of plurality of guru, gurun. ". . . Gentlemen, the offering of such an homage as has been arranged this evening to the acaryadeva is not a sectarian concern, for when we speak of the fundamental principle of gurudeva or acaryadeva, we speak of something that is of universal application. There does not arise any question of discriminating my guru from yours or anyone else’s. There is only one guru, who appears in an infinity of forms to teach you, me and all others. In the Mundaka Upanisad (1.2.12) it is said: <CENTER>tad-vijnartham sa gurum evabhigacchet samit-panih srotriyam brahma-nistham </CENTER>"In order to learn the transcendental science, one must approach the bona fide spiritual master in disciplic succession, who is fixed in the Absolute Truth." Thus it has been enjoined herewith that in order to receive that transcendental knowledge, one must approach the guru. Therefore, if the Absolute Truth is one, about which we think there is no difference of opinion, the guru cannot be two. The acaryadeva to whom we have assembled tonight to offer our humble homage is not the guru of a sectarian institution or one out of many differing exponents of the truth. On the contrary, he is the jagad-guru, or the guru of all of us, the only difference is that some obey him wholeheartedly, while others do not obey him directly. Abhay Charan Das [early name of His Divine Grace Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada]Given originally as an address before the Members of the Sri Gaudiya Math, Bombay Circa February l936 http://bvml.org/ACBSP/oeg.htm

Who Is The Perfect Guru? (A Vyasa-puja lecture) http://www.purebhakti.com/lectures/lecture20020213a.shtml It is a good idea to read this entire offering, rather than just a short part of it out of context .

Not at all. Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura explains in the 62nd anga of bhakti: 62) Sajåtîya-snigdha-mahattara-sådhu-sanga? Association of like-minded, affectionate, advanced devotees ". . . In the same way, sådhakas who worship Krsna should associate with devotees of Krsna, and sådhakas who worship other incarnations of the Lord should associate with devotees who worship the same forms of the Lord. Although a sådhu may be of the same spiritual disposition, one should associate with those sådhus who are affectionately disposed to oneself ( snigdha). The word snigdha refers to those who are affectionate, well-wishing and rasika – not those who are harsh, unsympathetic or indifferent. The esoteric mysteries of bhajana and genuine instruction regarding the method of performing bhajana cannot be obtained from sådhus who are indifferently disposed or who are not affectionate. Therefore to associate with saintly devotees who are soft-hearted and affectionate is of the greatest utility. . . " Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu-bindu Translation and commentary by Srila B.V. Narayana Maharaja http://bvml.org/SBNM/books/index.html Good advice. Srila Gaura Govinda Maharaja gave some nice advice to us all regarding who can actually be compassionate. In Mayapura, just prior to his physical departure, he had this short conversation with Hari Vilasa after his last public lecture. QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS Real Compassion? Devotee: But if one has theoretical understanding that he has gotten form the words of the spiritula master, then one is rightly situated. So in your class you said that only the topmost devotee can be compassionate. Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, only one who sees Krsna. Devotee: So my question is, does that mean no one else can be compassionate? Gour Govinda Swami: One may be compassionate to fulfill his own selfish desire. One may be compassionate to some and not compassionate to others. He has raga and dvesa, liking and disliking. He is not equal to one and all. He cannot be. Unless one sees Krsna how can he be compassionate? He will see, this is Krsna's jiva suffering. His heart bleeds. He cannot sit tight. He will go out and preach Krsna consciousness. And who preaches? Prana ache yara, sei hetu pracara; one who has life? What is life? Jivanam sarva-bhutesu. Krsna says, "I am jivan, I am the life in all living entities." One who sees Krsna everywhere. Who sees Krsna's jiva suffering because of forgetfulness of Krsna, because of a lack of Krsna conscoiusness; he has prana, life. He goes out and preaches. He is completely surrendered to Krsna. Therefore Krsna came as Mahaprabhu, as a bhakta (a devotee), to teach devotion, to teach how to surrender unto Krsna (sikhaya sarangati bhakater prana). Saranagati is the life of the devotee who is completely surrendered. Krsna tare kore atmasara (then Krsna accepts him). Prana ache yara, sei hetu pracara (he has got life, therefore he goes out and preaches). Otherwise, who can preach? How can one preach unless one sees Krsna, sees Krsna's jiva suffering? He does not want anyone to suffer. Everyone should be Krsna conscious. Therefore, here Narada Muni says that everyone should act like this. This is the purpose of Srila Prabhupada forming the society for Krsna consciousness. http://bvml.org/SGGM/aswe.htm ISKCON means wherever you find devotees who are conscious of Krsna. Srila Prabhupada wrote in chapter 19 of the Nectar of Devotion: ". . . Although many different processes for developing love of Godhead have been explained so far, Srila Rüpa Gosvämi now gives us a general description of how one can best achieve such a high position. The beginning of ecstatic love of Godhead is basically faith. There are many societies and associations of pure devotees, and if someone with just a little faith begins to associate with such societies, his advancement to pure devotional service is rapid. The influence of a pure devotee is such that if someone comes to associate with him with a little faith, one gets the chance of hearing about the Lord from authoritative scriptures like Bhagavad-gitä and Srimad-Bhägavatam. other suggested reading: Non-Sectarian Vaisnava-Dharma Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur on the nature of sectarianism from the introduction to the Sri Krsna Samhita: http://bvml.org/SBTP/nsvd.htm Organised Religion by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura http://bvml.org/SBSST/organised_religion.htm Sri Guru & His Grace by Srila Bhakti Raksaka Sridhara Maharaja Chapter Five God Consciousness vs. Society Consciousness http://bvml.org/SBRSM/SGaHG.html#5 The Mental Prison Of The Institution Editorial (VNN) - by Atulananda das http://www.vnn.org/editorials/ET9809/ET19-2250.html Srila Jiva Gosvami says: Paramartha-gurasrayo vyavaharika-gurvadiparityagenapi kartavyah "One should not accept a spiritual master based on hereditary, social or ecclesiastical conventions. Such a professional guru should be rejected. One must accept a qualified spiritual master, who can help one advance toward the ultimate goal of life, krsna prema (Bhakti-sandharba, annucheda 210) What matter from which Vaisnava Mission you find such sad guru, as long as you find someone qualified?

Perhaps this is the verse you are thinking of: vaco vegam manasah krodha-vegam jihva-vegam udaropastha-vegam etan vegan yo visaheta dhirah sarvam apimam prthivim sa sisyat "A sober person who can tolerate the urge to speak, the mind's demands, the actions of anger and the urges of the tongue, belly and genitals is qualified to make disciples all over the world." NOI ,Verse 1 Nectar of Instruction (The Sri Upadesamrta of Srila Rupa Gosvami) translated and purported by HDGACBSP You can read His Divine Grace's purport here: http://bvml.org/books/TNoI.html Indeed! Here is a nice corroboration of this point,with regard to accepting a siksa guru, from Srila Bhakti Rakshak Sridhara Maharaja: "The relative and absolute considerations are always coming in clash. The absolute should be accepted and the relative sacrificed. Still the relative is necessary. After graduation from primary school another teacher is accepted for higher education, but that does not mean that the primary teacher is neglected or insulted. For our own interest, whatever we find which is akin to what was given to us by our guru maharaja, whatever we find that will enlighten us further, and whatever will help us to understand more clearly what we heard from our guru maharaja, must be accepted. Is my realization a living thing, or is it dead? Anyone who has come in connection with the infinite cannot but say this: "I am nothing." That should be the salient point. . ." SBRSM Sri Guru and His Grace http://bvml.org/SBRSM/SGaHG.html#5

". . . The real importance of the name is not to be found merely in the arrangement of its syllables, but in the deep meaning within that divine sound. Some scholars argue that in the Kali-santarana Upanisad, Lord Brahma says that the Hare Krsna maha-mantra is properly pronounced only when the name of Rama precedes the name of Krsna: "Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare/ Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare." <CENTER>Krishna Nama </CENTER>In the Kali-santarana Upanisad, the Hare Krsna maha-mantra is given in that way. But to say that the name of Rama must precede the name of Krsna in the mantra is a superficial understanding. It is said that because it comes from the Upanisads, the Hare Krsna mantra is a Vedic mantra, and therefore, because the ordinary people may not have any entrance into Vedic mantras, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu readjusted this mantra by reversing the order of the words. In that way, it is said, the concern that it is a Vedic mantra is thereby canceled, and so Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu gave it to all without breaching the injunctions of the Vedas. Some devotees in Uttar Pradesh who have great affection for Sri Caitanyadeva like to give this opinion. But our faith is that the mentioning of "Hare Rama" first is only superficial. It concerns the idea that since the Rama avatara appeared first and the Krsna avatara afterwards, the name of Rama, "Hare Rama," should come first in the maha-mantra. A deeper reading will consider that when two similar things are connected together, the priority will be ordered not on the basis of historical precedent, but in consideration of the most highly developed conception. The holy name of Krsna is higher than the holy name of Rama. This is mentioned in the Puranas: three names of Rama equal one name of Krsna. The name of Krsna is superior to the name of Rama. Where the two are connected together, the first position should be given to the one that is superior. Therefore, the name of Krsna must come first in the maha-mantra. This is one point. Another point is that within the eternal plane, everything is moving in a cyclic order. In an eternal cycle, which is first and which is next cannot be ascertained, and so, in the eternal plane of lila, it cannot be determined whether Krsna is before Rama or Rama is before Krsna. So from that consideration also, since the names of Krsna and Rama are eternal and unrelated to any historical event, we may begin the mantra from any place. <CENTER>Rama Means Krishna </CENTER>But above these considerations, our sampradaya has given another, higher consideration. A deeper understanding will reveal that the Hare Krsna mantra is not at all concerned with rama lila. In the name of Rama within the Hare Krsna mantra, the Gaudiya Vaisnavas will find Radha-ramana Rama. That means "Krsna, who gives pleasure (raman) to Srimati Radharani." In our conception, the Hare Krsna mantra is wholesale Krsna consciousness, not Rama consciousness. Sri Caitanya's highest conception of things is always svayam bhagavan, krsna lila, radha-govinda lila. That is the real purpose of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's advent and teachings. In that consideration, the Hare Krsna mantra does not mention the rama lila of Ayodhya at all. There is no connection with that in the highest conception of the Hare Krsna mantra. And the inner conception of the mantra is responsible for our spiritual attainment. When one pronounces the name Rama, if he means Dasarathi Rama, his attraction will take him there, to Ayodhya; if he means Parasurama, he will be attracted to another place. And if Rama means Radha-ramana Rama, he will go to Goloka. The inner conception of the devotee will guide him to his destination. My original name was Ramendra Candra. When I was given initiation, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura gave me the name Ramendra Sundara. I asked him, "What is the meaning of Ramendra?" He told me, "In our consideration, Rama does not mean Dasarathi Rama or Lord Ramacandra, the son of King Dasaratha. It means Radha-ramana Rama - Krsna, the lover of Radharani." The name "Hare" may also mean different things according to one's conception. That the meaning of the word Hare in the mantra is taken to mean Radharani is also determined according to the spiritual development or qualification (adhikara) of the chanter. When one is firmly established in conceiving of Radha-Krsna in the background of everything - when one finds svayam-rupa, the original form of Godhead, underlying all sorts of conceptions of all things good - then only will he find that sort of meaning and nothing else. For beginners, the word "Hare" in the Hare Krsna mantra can be conceived to mean Hari. That is one meaning. It may also mean Nrsimhadeva. And just as "Rama" can mean Dasarathi Rama, "Krsna" may refer to different types of Krsna. There is also a Krsna in Vaikuntha, where the vaibhavas, or extensions of the Lord, number twenty-four. In Vaikuntha, first there is Narayana, and then four extensions: Vasudeva, Sankarsana, Pradyumna, and Aniruddha. Each of these four has five agents, making twenty-four in all. One of these is the Krsna of Vaikuntha. Then there is the Krsna of Dvaraka and the Krsna of Mathura. In this way there are various conceptions of Krsna. But the highest conception of Krsna is Krsna in Vrndavana: Radha-Govinda. When one cannot remove himself from that plane, he will conceive of divinity only as Hari-Hara. He will see nothing else but Radha-Krsna. Those who are completely and perfectly installed in madhura-rasa - who have the highest kind of divine vision - cannot come down from that plane. If they do, it is only for the interest of Radha-Govinda. In that case, the devotee may go anywhere, but his real interest is under lock and key in Vrndavana. Only on behalf of the service of Radha- Govinda will a devotee leave Vrndavana. For those who are followers of the Vrndavana line, "Hare" in the Hare Krsna mantra can only mean Hara: Srimati Radharani. Hara means "Radha, who can even snatch the attention of Krsna, Hari." The word harana means "to steal. " One who can steal the mind of He who is most expert in stealing - who can steal even the mind of Krsna - She is Hara. Stealing in its highest capacity is shown by Radharani. And "Krsna" means "He who is most attractive in the absolute sense." They are both represented in the mantra. from: The Holy Name from Loving Search For The Lost Servant by Srila Bhakti Raksak Sridhar Gosvami Maharaja http://www.bvml.org/SBRSM/holyname.html

"Those who have not received a mantra can only speculate about the taste of the holy name, but unfortunately most of their considerations are useless. Therefore you must receive a mantra. Those who have received it consider it to be a most important samskara." SBT ". . . Thakur Bhakti Vinode is the pioneer of the suddha Bhakti Movement that is at present sweeping over the county. In his numerous literary works he has supplied the golden key that unlocks the region of etemal Bliss to all jivas. The teachings of Mahaprabhu give us the real meaning of the Scriptures, reconciling all differences of opinion that trouble the world. In Mahaprabhu centers the only hope of the future and present of all jivas. But the teachings of Mahaprabhu were not grasped by people of this country and their real significance passed long ago clean out of the memory of the nation. Thakur Bhakti Vinode has made the eternal religion live again in his pages. Without his help nobody at the present day can understand the teachings of Mahaprabhu or the Absolute Truth. With his help the absolute Truth can be easily understood. The absolute Truth alone can reconcile the otherwise erreconcilable differences and discords of this world. It is universally recognised that the Truth is bound to prevail over untruth in the long run. But even the Truth can only be grasped by those whose minds are perfectly free and prepared to receive it when it actually makes its appearance. But most of us are not ready to welcome the Truth for its own sake. Thakur Bhakti Vinode tells us that a perfectly pure mind alone is fit to receive the Truth. Perfect purity is not to be found in the world. It belongs to Divinity alone and is imparted by divine Grace; and God often sends His own beloved to convey His Grace to fallen jivas if only they submit to receive it from him. B.V. TIRTHA excerpted from a biographical essay which is the preface to Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura's Jaiva Dharma. Published by Sri Gaudiya Matha and edited by His Holiness Sri Srimad Bhakti Vilasa Tirtha Gosvami Maharaja. http://bvml.org/SBTP/index.htm

Don't twist things out of proportion. Sometimes our acaryas adjust siddhanta for time and circumstance preaching. There are many examples that we don't need to offer here, so you can just try to use the information for your own agenda. Granted. Most certainly if you are an eternally liberated soul like Srila Goura Kishore das babaji or Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura. What they required or did not require does not preclude OUR need, or the need for sadhakas in general to accept diksa from a bona fide preceptor, even though chanting the gayatri mantras may not be necessary in certain rare cases where pure bhakti has already manifested. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura wrote: On the other hand, samskara is not necessary for liberated persons because their nature is not distorted. Distortion of the soul's original spiritual nature is the cause of his bondage in this world. For this reason, without samskara the life of the conditioned soul is impure. Even if a person has attained prema on account of previous samskara, still in his present life he again receives samskara in order to set a proper example for the good of all. . . . Out of affection, teacher next gives a mantra that allows his student to easily experience the nectar of the Lord's holy name. A mantra is a kind of prayer that contains the name of God that is inflected grammatically in the dative case.<SUP> (7) </SUP>The mantra also includes certain adjectives that qualify the name of God and allows it to express a particular mood or taste. By giving a mantra the teacher helps his student taste the holy name by selecting a suitable 'flavor' for him. When we say "namah", obeisance to Hari, we employ the 4th or the dative case ending. The dative case expresses the proper relationship between the worshiper, the worshiped and the worship that allows the taste of the holy name to be easily experienced. There is no end to the happiness of a person who has received a mantra. Those who analyze the meaning of the 18 syllable mantra, generally used in the worship of Sri Krishna, know that it is a condensed sampling of the taste available from the Lord.<SUP> (8)</SUP> The same also applies to the 24 syllable gayatri and other mantras that are used to worship the Lord. <SUP>(9)</SUP> Those who have not received a mantra can only speculate about the taste of the holy name, but unfortunately most of their considerations are useless. Therefore you must receive a mantra. Those who have received it consider it to be a most important samskara. . . (7) Such as Krishnaya or Ramaya. (8) The 18 syllable Gopal mantra is one example. (9) The kama-gayatri, used by Gaudiyas, is one example from: http://bvml.org/SBTP/pstpoi.html .

http://bvml.org/SBRSM/SGaHG.html#10 <CENTER>Instructing Spiritual Masters </CENTER><CENTER>The Disciplic Succession </CENTER><CENTER>Brahma-Madhva-Gaudiya Sampradaya </CENTER><CENTER>Bhagavan Sri Krsna Brahma Narada Vyasadeva Madhvacarya Padmanabha Nrhari Madhava Aksobhya Jayatirtha Jnanasindhu Dayanidhi Vidyanidhi Rajendra Jayadharma Purusottama Brahmanyatirtha Vyasatirtha Laksmipati Madhavendra Pun Isvara Puri (Nityananda, Advaita) Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu Rupa Goswami (Svarupa Damodara, Sanatana Goswami) Raghunatha dasa Goswami, Jiva Goswami Krsnadasa Kaviraja Goswami Narottama dasa Thakura Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura (Baladeva Vidyabhusana) Jagannatha dasa Babaji Bhaktivinoda Thakura Gaurakisora dasa Babaji Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura _______|_____ |_____________|_____________| |_____________| |_____________| B.R. Sridhara Deva Goswami A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami</CENTER> Devotee: Can you explain how the principle of disciplic succession works? I Was under the impression that in your teaching there must ke an unkroken chain of disciplic succession beginning with God Himself, in order for the knowledge to be properly understood. But when I read Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada's Bhagavad-gita As It Is, I found that the disciplic succession contains only thirty-eight names, although it says that the system is fifty centuries old. Is this a complete list, or are some names left out? How are we to understand these apparent historical discrepancies? Srila Sridhara Maharaja: Our guru parampara, disciplic succession, follows the ideal, not the body; it is a succession of instructing spiritual masters, not formal initiating spiritual masters. In a song about our guru parampara written by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati, it is mentioned, mahaprabhu sri caitanya radha krsna nahe anya rupanuga janera jivana: the highest truth of Krsna consciousness comes down through the channel of siksa gurus, instructing spiritual masters. Those who have the standard of realization in the proper line have been accepted in the list of our disciplic succession. It is not a diksa guru parampara, a succession of formal initiating gurus. Diksa, or initiation is more or less a formal thing; the substantial thing is siksa, or spiritual instruction. And if our siksa and diksa gurus or instructing and initiating spiritual masters are congruent, then we are most fortunate. There are different gradations of spiritual masters. In the scriptures, the symptoms of the guru and the symptoms of the disciple have been described: the guru must be qualified in so many ways, and the disciple must also be qualified. Then when they come in connection, the desired result will be produced. We are concerned with Krsna consciousness, wherever it is available. In the Bhagavad-gita and especially in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, Krsna says, "I start the Krsna consciousness movement, but gradually by the enervating influence of the material world, it weakens. When I find that it has diminished considerably, I return and begin a fresh movement. Again, when I find that it is becoming degraded by the adverse influence of the environment, I send one of my representatives to clear the path and give some fresh energy, invest some fresh capital in my Krsna consciousness movement." What is Krsna consciousness? We must examine the standard of knowledge. The guru should try to impart to his disciple the capacity of reading what Krsna consciousness really is. Krsna consciousness is not a trade; it is not anyone's monopoly. The sincere souls must thank their lucky stars that they can appreciate what Krsna consciousness is, wherever it may be. Devotee: How are we to understand that in the history of our disciplic succession, it appears that there are gaps where there was no initiating guru present to formally accept disciples? <CENTER>Spiritual Light Years </CENTER>Srila Sridhara Maharaja: We are not concerned with a material connection. The mediator is not this flesh and body as we generally think. In studying the development of scientific thought, we may connect Newton to Einstein, leaving aside many unimportant scientists. We may trace the development of science fromGalileo to Newton, and then to Einstein, neglecting the middle points. If their contributions are taken into account, then the whole thing is taken into account, and lesser scientists may be omitted. When a long distance is to be surveyed, the nearest posts may be neglected. Between one planet and another, the unit of measurement is the light year; distance is calculated in light years and not from mile to mile, or meter to meter. In the disciplic succession, only the great stalwarts in our line are considered important. Devotee: There was one question still in my mind on guru parampara which was not clarified. Between Baladeva Vidyabhusana and Jagannatha Dasa Babaji is a gap of almost a hundred years. How is it that between the two of them no one is listed in our guru parampara? Srila Sridhara Maharaja: We have to forget material consideration when we consider the spiritual line. Here in this plane, the spiritual current is always being disturbed and interrupted by material obstructions. Whenever truth is interrupted by a material flow and becomes mixed or tampered with, Krsna appears to again reinstate the truth in its former position of purity (yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata). That attempt is always being made by the Lord and his devotees. The flow of spiritual truth is a living thing, not a dead thing. The vigilant eye of the Lord is always over our heads, and whenever it is necessary to keep the current pure and flowing in full force, help descends from above. Krsna says to Arjuna, "What I say to you today, I spoke to Vivasvan many, many years ago. Now, by the influence of material conception, that very truth has become contaminated, and so again I say the same thing to you today. . . " The flow of truth is the real issue, not just a list of names. There are also other names of SBSST's disciples that can be added to the last line, and the next generation can also be included. The cut and paste is from Sri Guru and His Grace, and this is how the editors of that book presented it.

Srila Hrydaya Bon Maharja is the diksa, siksa and sannyasa disciple of SBSST and shares the same conception of our guru parampara that his spritual master did. He never writes anything about an uninteruppted diksa line. That is your interpretation of uninterrupted. Uninterrupted also means we understand the diksa and siksa relationships of the Pancaratrika and Bhagavata paramparas back to the followers of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Madhavendra and Isvara Puri and more importantly than a chronological list of names the siddhanta and tattva comes to the present day unchanged. Srila Bhakti Raksak Sridhar Maharaja explains it nicely and I will find the reference. SBSST has written that Srila Gour Kishore took babaji vesa directly after leaving household life. I have read the opinion that Srila Gaurakisora Babaji's diksa Guru was in the Advaita-vamsa, from Santipur,but as SBSST did not give us his name I can't invent one. SBSST also did not place Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura's diksa guru, Srila Bipin Bihari Gosvami in our guru parampara, because the siksa relationship Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura had with his siksa guru Srila Jagannatha Das Babaji Maharaja holds more significance. I would assume the same principle holds true for Srila Gaura Kishore das babaji maharaja as well. http://bvml.org/SBSST/aentbf.html#1 The following . . . appeared in the Sajjana Tosani monthly magazine in the year 1917. The articles, entitled Anaran Prabhura katha or "The Instuctions of My Spiritual Master" appeared in the nineteenth volume, numbers five and six. The editors of the Caitanya Matha corrected these magazine articles by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura and compiled them into a small book. The headings of the stories were given by the editorial staff to depict their specific instructions. The original articles can be found in the Devananda Gaudiya Matha in Navadwip, West Bengal as well as in their branch in Mathura, Utar Pradesh. "Srila Gaurakisora dasa Babaji appeared almost one hundred years ago in the district of Pharidapura next to the place called Tepakhola in the village of Vagyana. In that village, which is situated on the shore of the Padma River, he was born as the son of a Vaisya named Vamsi das. During his boyhood his mother and father arranged his marriage and he remained in household life for almost twenty-nine years, working as a grain broker. After the death of his wife, he left his business and approached Srila Bhagavat dasa Babaji, requesting from him the traditional paramahamsa Vaisnava Babaji dress. After accepting Babaji initiation from Srila Bhagavat dasa Babaji, who was a disciple of Srila Jagannatha dasa Babaji, Srila Gaurkisora travelled from village to village in Vrndavana, continually performing his worship to Lord Krsna for approximately thirty years. During this time he would sometimes travel to the holy places of pilgrimage in northern and western India. He associated with Sri Svarupa dasa Babaji in Jagannatha Puri, Srila Bhagavan dasa Babaji in Kalina, and Sri Caitanya dasa Babaji in Khulia. Srila Gaurakisora dasa Babaji became famous among the great devotees of Vrndavana and was given the appropriate name bhajananandi. Even though Srila Gaurakisora received such exalted honor, he never secretly endeavored for even a drop of material sense gratification. He was totally indifferent to material enjoyment. Self-satisfied and alone, he performed his his pure, unalloyed devotional pastimes in a deep devotional mood.

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