Jagat

premoThe following discussion taking place on RISA. Thought it might be of some interest. I've finally read the brief essay "The God of new things" by Pankaj Mishra that appeared in the _Boston Globe_ a couple of weeks ago. Mishra's thesis is pretty well encapsulated by the article's subtitle "WHy Hinduism is as much a political invention as an ancient tradition," but if you'd like to know more it can be found on the Web at <http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/335/focus/The_God_of_new_things+.shtml>. In general, I am sympathetic to much in Mishra's argument, but there was one sentence that bothered me. He wrote, "Only a tiny minority of upper-caste Indians had known much about the Bhagavad-Gita or the Vedas until the 18th century, when they were translated by British scholars and then presented as sacred texts from the lost golden age of Hinduism." Now, I am willing to give Mishra the Vedas, but not the Gita. Of course, if 'knowing much about' the Gita required reading it in the original Sanskrit, then in the premodern period that would have meant a relatively small proportion of the population, since not many people were literate and of those who were literate most were literate in a vernacular, not in Sanskrit. Still, I would think that the Gita would have been widely known among those who had learned Sanskrit. The best evidence that I can think of is that it attracted many commentaries. (I have the vague notion that as one of Vedanta's prasthanatrayi [along with the Upanishads and the Brahmasutras], you had to comment on it if you wanted to demonstrate your chops in that tradition. So the Gita was commented on by the big five [or most of them] Shankara, Ramanuja, Madhva, Nimbarka, and Vallabha. But I'm not sure how widely the Gita was commented upon in other traditions.) I also assume that the Gita was translated into vernacular languages, making it available to literate non-Sanskrit readers, and also serving as evidence of its popularity. Finally, unless we are to assume that nothing from the literate tradition filtered down orally (and visually through temple art and so forth) to the illiterate, then it must be that many people knew the story of the Gita, some of its verses, some of its teachings, though I don't know whether that would count as 'knowing much about' the Gita by Mishra's lights. Since many of you know premodern South Asia better than I do, I wanted to run this by you. Here are my questions--a kind of postsemester pop quiz: There is evidence (either in commentaries or other kinds of evidence ) that there the Gita was a popular text among the Sanskrit-literate in premodern South Asia. True or false? There is evidence (I am thinking primarily of translations and commentaries in the vernacular) that the Gita was a popular text among the literate, but non-Sanskrit-knowing in premodern South Asia. True or false? There is evidence (and here I am not even sure what would count as evidence) that the Gita was a popular text among the nonliterate in premodern South Asia. True or false? I'd be interested to hear your answers. Sincerely, Jack Llewellyn <hr> There is nothing original in this view of Mishra's just like the rest of his cultural writing which is a rather watered down version of the standard Marxist analysis of the so called Indian Renaissance of the 18-19th century. The leading light of this bastion, Romilla Thapar has interpreted this revival as an Orientalist enterprise lapped up by the upper caste Hindus.(Pl see her book on the Shakuntala story). That goes with the general Marxist thesis that the upper caste Indian Brahmin kulaks were following their colonial masters and revelling in their own newly discovered identity as Aryans. The revival of the Gita has been viewed this way, and so was Marxist perception about the rise of the Vivekananda Advaita now been seen as a culminating in the Hindutva ideology encouraged by the erstwhile RSS links with Hitler. Apart from the ad nauseum repetition of thesis taught in the Indian universities ever since the installation of Nurul Hasan as the Minister for Education in mid sixties by Indira Gandhi and the consequent take over of the history, sociology and language departments by the Nurul Hasan's Aligarh school, a whole army of historians and cultural writers has been generated (of which Pankaj is a typical specimen) who have studied nothing but the books of the leftists historians. Let alone the classical texts, ancient or medieval in Sanskrit or Persian, they have no serious proficiency in any Indian language. Not even at the doctoral level the history or sociology students in India are required as part of course work to know the texts in original. Sanskrit was kept out of Jawaharlal Nehru University till last year. Hence the understanding of the evidence is many times removed from reality and their consequent writing is an expression of anglophonic emaciation. It is also not surprising that total neglect of Pali, Magadhi, Dingal, Saddukari, early brijbhasa, avadhi, and early kharo boli has made these self appointed cultural and religious historians ignorant in the musical, choreographic, religious, ritual, and a host of other arts that have constituted the hindu system of beliefs, practices and spiritual transcendence. It is a mistake of the gross misinformation that the Hindu had to know Sanskrit to know the finer points of the Gita. They have not only been expounded in last thousand years in all their depth in Harikathas, Bhagvat Paraaryanas, Ram Katha, HAri Saptahas, dozens of Dance and Drama forms classical and popular in dozens of languages and hundreds of dialects. Only the culturally jaundiced who have no idea of how the Vaishnava thought has been transmitted from the sophisticated Sanskrit Gita Govind to the simplest mountain or jungle Pandavaani dramas, can argue that one has to know Sanskrit to know the Gita. There is much more to this myopic understanding of the Indian scene. The Indian texts did not wait for print revolution to reach the masses. Many other media had been doing that job. And that is a long story!! But may be it is of crucial interest for the teachers of Indian religions in North America and for the indian anglo monophones. regards, Bharat Gupt Associate Professor, Delhi University, <hr> Dear Jack, I think I should agree with Mishra on this point. The best example we have in, let alone the 18th century, the late 19th and early 20th century figure, Gandhi. Gandhi first read the Gita when he was in England and until that time, his only understanding of anything Hinduism was the orally transmitted bits and pieces of Ramayana story and other mythological stoies that his maid used to narrate to him. Until Gandhi wemt to South Africa, we must assume that Gandhi was one of many ordinary people and his acquaintance of the Gita would in that sense represent the majority Indian familiarity with the book even in the vernacular. That does not mean people did not hear of the story of Krishna and the Mahabharata war and the story of Krishna speaking to Arjuna in the battle field. The mere knowing or hearing of the Krishna's advice to Arjuna on the battle field does not mean that the people really knew that there was a text called BG in which that dialogue was narrated. The credit of popularising the Gita should really go to Edwin Arnold who retranslated the Gita of Wilkins and later BG Tilak brought the text into the mainstream politics by writing a commentary from the nationalist struggle point of view. Please note that I have not yet read Mishra's article but I am mainly responding to the points you have made. Regards Pratap Kumar <hr> Francis Buchanan's (aka Hamilton-Buchanan) observations (ca. 1812, Patna District, Bihar) may be of interest. The second paragraph makes reference to the Gita. "In the higher kind of Bhasha, which is understood by few, the only composition at all common is the Ramayan of Tulasidas; but the other books mentioned in the account of Bhagalpur are here also occasionally used, as are also some others, such as the Jaimini Bharat and the Ramchandrika Rasapriya, and Satsayi-Dosa of Deva Das. Even in Patna, where the works of Tulasidas are better understood that [sic: than?] in any other part of these districts, the people of rank assemble to hear a man called a Pandit, who can read distinctly, and receives a trifle from each; not above 10 or 12 in any assembly understand the reader, and therefore some one of these explains the meaning of each sentence, after which the flock are told the name of some god, which they bawl out until they are out of breath. In some places I heard it alleged, that many diligently read Tulasidas who could not read any other book, nor even a letter on any common subject; and there is great reason to suspect that these people have committed the poem, or at least parts of it, to memory, by frequently having heard it read or repeated, and that they merely look on the book for the sake of form, as the act of reading is considered meritorious. A few persons of high rank understand Tulasidas, yet cannot read." [from Buchanan, Account of the Districts of Bihar and Patna in 1811-1812, vol. I, 295-296.] And from page 300, same volume: "The Maharashtra Brahmans of Gaya have studied somewhat the meaning of the Vedas, but have no pupils; for here, as well as in Bengal, the people in a great measure neglect these works, farther than to read certain portions of them in their ceremonies; but with their meaning, or the controversies that have arisen on this subject, they give themselves no sort of trouble. The Purans are a more favourite study, but the Sribhagwat and the Bhagawatgita of the Mahabharat are almost the only parts to which any attention is paid; these are read and the meaning explained. This, I am told by all the Pandits, is an exceedingly difficult matter, the true meaning being very much involved in mystery, and of course has given rise to numerous controversies. Five great doctors, Sridhara, Sangkara, Toshani, Sandarbha and Nilakantha, have with many others treated on the subject in books called Tipani, or explanations, and these have given rise to different schools. In this district the first is chiefly followed. He is said to have been a (Dandi) Brahman, who relinquished all the pleasures of the world, and assumed three different names in the three great works which he composed. As author of a commentary on the Sri Bhagwat he is called Sridhara, ...[etc.]. Best wishes, Vijay Pinch <hr> Though it would be hazardous to posit a direct relation between the number of extant manuscripts of the Gita (whether in original or in vernacular translations) and the level of popular interest in it in pre-modern India, I thought it would be instructive to look at the data provided W.L. Manjul, Librarian at the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute Pune, in an article, "Bhagavadgitecha Vishva Sanchar" (Gitadarshan; a Marathi monthly April 1995: 9-48). Manjul notes that 334 major libraries spread across India hold about ten million manuscripts about six million of which have been catalogued. He speculates that of these about 5000 involve the Gita. The various institutions of learning in Pune hold about 150 manuscripts on the Gita (out of over one million manuscripts). The Saraswati Bhavan library, Varanasi has 314 and Saraswati Mahal library, Thanjavur 116. Outside India, the oldest translation of the Gita dates from about 1000 and is in Old Javanese. Manjul also mentions that in "The Persian Manuscripts of the Gita," an article written for First International Sanskrit Conference, Prof B.D. Varma lists and discusses about one dozen Persian translations of the Gita. A quick glance at other articles from the back numbers of Gita Darshan suggests that there has been a continuous tradition of engagement with the Gita (at both elite and popular levels), in India. Following are some of the major efforts: 1290: First vernacular translation of the Gita (in Marathi) "Bhavarthadipika" of Jnaneshvara 1400: Madhav Panikkar's translation in Malyalam Ca. 1500: Vaman Pandita's Yatharthdipika in Marathi where Vamana insists that the saguna aspect of brahman is superior to the nirguna one and identifies it uniquely with Sri Krishna (it would be instructive to study Vamana's links, if any, with Chaitanya sampradaya). 1582: Persian translation (an abridged version; being part of the translation of the Mahabharata sponsored by Akbar) 1656: Persian translation of Dara Shukoh. Ca. 1700: Citsadanandalahari; Marathi tika in 11120 Ovis by Ranganath Mogarekar; closely follows Sankara and Madhusudana 1887: Bhashavivritti of Raghunathsastri Parvate in Marathi; closely follows Sankara 1889: Setubandhani of Vishnubua Brahmachari in Marathi; anticipates J. Krishnamurti. The above efforts suggest that the Gita has been addressed from a variety of perspectives and that it would be disingenuous to impute a particular caste, class or an ideology bias to the Gita itself. S.Tilak

Panini makes it clear that he is writing down the rules of language based on spoken conventions. He even discusses some regionalisms.

<h3>Sanskrit, opposed by Maoists, taken off Nepal schools</h3> KATHMANDU, DEC 7 (AP) Nepal has ordered its schools to drop compulsory Sanskrit lessons, but denies it's caved into demands by Maoist rebels who say the language is foreign to the Himalayan kingdom. Sanskrit dates back thousands of years across South Asia, but is rarely used in Nepal where the official language is Nepali. The abolition of Sanskrit lessons is a key among a list of education reforms demanded by the rebels who have called on students to boycott classes across Nepal indefinitely from Monday. The Himalayan Times newspaper today quoted Education Minister Devi Ojha as saying the decision was not made to comply with the rebels, who have fought a bloody guerrilla war since 1996 to topple Nepal's monarchy. He said Sanskrit had not been taught at the infant school level and would now no longer be compulsory for primary students either. http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?gid=&id=102743

Is there no hard copy?

Dear Prabhus, A local author has asked me to help him with a reference book he is writing. Specifically, he wants to know if there is a book published in Iskcon that gives detailed information about Krishna conscious festivals celebrated in Iskcon. I would be able to provide primary sources, but I think he is looking for something a little more popular. Does anyone know of such a book published by Iskcon? The list he has provided me with, given him by a devotee at the local temple, contains the following 13 festivals-- 1. Nityananda trayodasi 2. Gaur Purnima 3. Rama Navami 4. Nrisinghadeva 5. Chida dahi festival 6. Rathayatra 7. Jhulan Yatra 8. Balaram's appearance day 9. Janmastami 10. Nandotsava, Prabhupada's appearance day (Vyasa Puja) 11. Radhastami 12. Diwali 13. Govardhan Puja If anyone thinks that this list should be amended in the Iskcon context (i.e., are there any important big festivals that are not mentioned, or are any unimportant festivals on this list (Diwali?)), please let me know. Thanks for the help. Jagat

How does your motto match the statement, "Empirical science is next to zero in my book when describing things beyond their experience. And don't tell me they've verified it by telescopes and radio waves." This kind of backward thinking relegates Krishna consciousness to the very margins of religiosity in the modern world. This attitude means eternal sect, never universal religion.

Another answer is that if you give your mala to someone else, it is in effect a kind of initiation. Of course you can give your mala to someone else to worship with, that is a great kindness, but you should not take it back afterward.

I am rather disheartened by Mukunda Datta's rather superficial understanding of things. I have hoped that some rapprochement among devotees would be possible through the impartial study of history. Jagat

The japa mala. One who has fixed determination to chant a certain number of Holy Names should use japa beads, described as follows— A rosary of beads made of tulasi wood used for chanting japa brings about the desired result, no matter what one seeks. The rosary should have the shape of a cow’s tail or a serpent (i.e. bigger beads at one end, smaller ones at the other). One should never touch the beads with the forefinger, nor shake or swing them while chanting. One should finger each bead between the thumb and the middle section (i.e., not the tip) of another finger as one chants. One should never touch the japa mala with one’s left hand, nor drop it. An intelligent person, whether desiring sense enjoyment, liberation or the mystic power of attraction, should use the middle finger to chant on his beads. (Hari-bhakti-viläsa 17.112, 99, 123-124) (33) Rules for chanting from the Hari Bhakti Vilasa Quoted from Mantrarnava—In order to perfect one’s chanting of japa, one needs to cultivate the following qualities: control of the mind, internal and external purity, silence, contemplation of the mantra’s meaning, patience and steadfastness. (Hari-bhakti-viläsa 17.129) Comment : Manah-saMharaNa means repeatedly bringing the mind back when it wanders to the sense objects. This is purity. Silence means to contemplate the meaning of the mantra. Avyagratva means that one should not rush one’s chanting in order to finish the fixed number of rounds. Anirveda means that one should not lose hope when one does not attain the expected results as quickly as expected. Bhaktivinode Thakur— While chanting japa, remember Krishna’s name with affectionate respect; concentrate the mind on the chanting alone; be pure in mind and avoid speaking uselessly; contemplate the mantra’s meaning and remain patient. ======== Treat your japa beads like your personal deity. Don't let them touch the floor; don't take them in the bathroom. You should not even really let anyone SEE your beads (that's why people keep them in a bag), much less let anyone else use them. Every time you chant on your beads, you are investing spiritual energy into them. They are like a bank account of your devotion, all those Holy Names are adding up inside your beads. Your relationship with the Holy Names is being mediated through your mala. So you don't really want anyone else's vibes getting mixed up in there.

My post above was a condensed version of a response to the discussion on Achintya list, where this discussion has also been started by Dark Knight, as it has on .... I deliberately excised all references to Mukunda Datta Prabhu's response and that of Krishna Susarla, who also expressed doubts about the Sva-likhita-jivani. I don't think it is altogether ethical to cross-post without the specific permission of an author, as some individuals often have very good reasons for avoiding certain forums and frequenting others. Mukunda is not present here to defend or respond to comments that his statements may provoke. Having said that, I will post my response anyway. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Square brackets = new additions. Dear Prabhus, I am rather surprised to see Mukunda Datta doubt the authenticity of the Sva-likhita-jivani. This book was also published by the Gaudiya Math, if my memory serves me, while Siddhanta Saraswati was still alive. Sundarananda was the editor. I have never seen anyone in the Gaudiya Math doubt its bona fides. [it may have been the published shortly after Saraswati Thakur's disappearance.] I think that Shukavak's acceptance of its authenticity is further strong evidence. He had the opportunity to peruse Bhaktivinoda Thakur's personal writings and could make an educated statement about the handwriting and the age of the paper, etc. The manuscript details are sufficient: it is kept at Dvadash Mandir, BVT's birthplace. This is not a great library with a barcoded collection, so what further details do you need? Why do you doubt Shukavak? Surely you don't think he has an ax to grind? Does leaving Iskcon somehow make one unable to learn the truth? Indeed, Iskcon, like so many other ideologically-driven and politically power-top-heavy organizations, has consistently attempted to suppress uncomfortable truth, as was most painfully evident in the Gurukula abuse issue. I tend to give more credence to statements about history, etc., to those who are free of Iskcon's ideological blinkers--[especially if they have the academic credentials of a Shukavak]. As someone who has taken up the academic life, Mukundaji, I find your preliminary doubt normal, but on the whole, your entire response to this question seems ideologically motivated rather than impartial. I can understand that there is suspicion in Iskcon circles about those who have found cause to leave their association, and I am glad to see that Krishna Susarlaji has spoken out against blind acceptance. ... At the same time, other responses go further to make the ludicrous suggestion that Lalita Prasad Thakur may have falsified this manuscript. What possible gain could LPT get out of falsifying a manuscript that says his guru ate meat at one time? Especially if, as the reference to Harisauri's memoirs claims, he professed to be the unique representative of BVT? (from here on already posted above)

I think that we should be extremely indebted to Bhaktivinoda for having pierced the hagiographical balloon so that we can surmount the superficial understanding of guru-tattva and nitya-siddha and all the rest of the terms that we bandy about in order to blind ourselves to possible flaws in our guru vargas. I have written about this before in relation to the controversy over the Prabhupada-lilamrita. How much more inspiring and glorious it is to have a human guru who has shown the way by struggling with the negative aspects of material entanglement and succeeding! This is, as far as I am concerned, a crucial point of transcending the kanishtha adhikari stage. It is really the same question as that of guru omniscience and infallibility. There is much confused thinking on this issue and I am not up to date on what Iskcon's leaders are saying of late. The arch-conservative and reactionary side tries to discredit the Svalikhita-jivani itself. These people readily accept statements from this book when it suits their purposes, but refuse to accept those that contradict their idealized image of Bhaktivinoda Thakur. Even so, the SLJ is still the primary source of information on BVT's life as we know it--including Rupavilasa's book and all other Gaudiya Math publications on his life--with the appropriate expurgations, of course. I take a much more liberal and, I believe, enlightened view that attempts to reconcile the humanity of the guru with his divinity rather than obliterate his humanity altogether in a cloud of mystification. Your servant, Jagadananda Das.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/01/international/asia/01GURU.html

(Letter from Yigal Bronner, released by Laurie Patton) Dear Friends, I am writing to let you know that my term is over and I have been released from military prison. It is a very joyous feeling to be free again, and to be reunited with my dear ones. I have a lot to catch up with, and it will take me a while to do so. I have, for instance, around a thousand e-mail messages to read. It will also take me some time to get a better perspective of all that I've been through. Quite an experience... I feel overwhelmed by the responses my case stirred in so many places. I feel deeply indebted for what you all did for me. I am told that your faxes basically flooded the office of the Military's Attorney General, and that of the Defense Minister. In the difficult hours of the first part of my term, the knowledge that I am not really alone in all this, that there is that huge, world-wide support group constantly protesting, drafting adds, sending faxes, and spreading the word, is what kept my head above the water. It meant a whole lot to me. I'll try and write some more later (please forgive if you get double messages, I have too many e-mail accounts now). Meanwhile I just wanted to let you know I am free again, and to tell you how much your love and support meant to me. Yigal

Hillsborough.

This is a verse that has no source. It is one that's been getting tossed around the Vaishnava world for centuries. About 20 years ago I searched through everything to find it, but never did. Bhaktivinoda has the following-- kRSNera saMsAra kara chAri anAcAra jIve dayA kRSNa nAma sarva dharma sAra No Vaishnava sevana in there, but I guess you could consider that a part of Krishner samsar.

I have found another server and requested a transfer of the domain name, but that supposedly takes 24-72 hours. Maharai (Hare Krsna dasi's daughter) just made a really sweet logo of a Chakra with Lord Jagannatha's smiling face in it (I never much cared for the CHampions of KRsna's Army theme) and several more liberal devotees are helping with a new mission statement. It will definitely be more inclusive than Umapati's version. Umapati had Tirthiraja (whose server Chakra was on) delete all the files. I have many of the old articles on my computer, but will have to choose which ones are going to be reposted etc. Do you have any ideas for the new Chakra? Would love your input. Madhu

<center><h3>HU'S ON FIRST</h3> (We take you now to the Oval Office.)</center> George: Condi! Nice to see you. What's happening? Condi: Sir, I have the report here about the new leader of China. George: Great. Lay it on me. Condi: Hu is the new leader of China. George: That's what I want to know. Condi: That's what I'm telling you. George: That's what I'm asking you. Who is the new leader of China? Condi: Yes. George: I mean the fellow's name. Condi: Hu. George: The guy in China. Condi: Hu. George: The new leader of China. Condi: Hu. George: The Chinese! Condi: Hu is leading China. George: Now whaddya' asking me for? Condi: I'm telling you Hu is leading China. George: Well, I'm asking you. Who is leading China? Condi: That's the man's name. George: That's who's name? Condi: Yes. George: Will you or will you not tell me the name of the new leader of China? Condi: Yes, sir. George: Yassir? Yassir Arafat is in China? I thought he was in the Middle East. Condi: That's correct. George: Then who is in China? Condi: Yes, sir. George: Yassir is in China? Condi: No, sir. George: Then who is? Condi: Yes, sir. George: Yassir? Condi: No, sir. George: Look, Condi. I need to know the name of the new leader of China. Get me the Secretary General of the U.N. on the phone. Condi: Kofi? George: No, thanks. Condi: You want Kofi (Coffee)? George: No. Condi: You don't want Kofi. George: No. But now that you mention it, I could use a glass of milk. And then get me the U.N. Condi: Yes, sir. George: Not Yassir! The guy at the U.N. Condi: Kofi (Coffee)? George: Milk! Will you please make the call? Condi: And call who? George: Who is the guy at the U.N? Condi: Hu is the guy in China. George: Will you stay out of China?! Condi: Yes, sir. George: And stay out of the Middle East! Just get me the guy at the U.N. Condi: Kofi (Coffee). George: All right! With cream and two sugars. Now get on the phone. (Condi picks up the phone.) Condi: Rice (Condi Rice), here. George: Rice? Good idea. And a couple of egg rolls, too. Maybe we should send some to the guy in China. And the Middle East. Can you get Chinese food in the Middle East?

I have an electronic edition of the Padma Purana, but it is not the Bengali edition that Bhaktivinoda Thakur published. I have been typing out the Haribhaktivilasa and other works that quote large sections of PP. It is rare to find everything that is quoted in exactly the same form. Occasionally Skanda Purana texts are found in the PP, so I imagine the opposite may be possible also. There are many possible reasons for all this.

<h3>The terror within</h3> By Vishavjit Singh YellowTimes.org Guest Columnist (United States) (YellowTimes.org) – I did not think I would be compelled so soon to write a sequel to my earlier article, "Nation of Bystanders," detailing the malaise that has swept large segments of Indian society in the face of brutal savagery like the rape of a young girl on a subway train in Mumbai in the presence of bystanders. But the events that occurred on October 16th not too far from the capital of the world's most populous democracy would send chills down the spine of most humans, even the millions of "bystanders" around the Indian subcontinent and around the globe, thus compelling me to give testimony to these events. Five young men in their twenties, belonging to the lower classes, the "untouchables," who among other unenviable tasks have for generations been consigned to the jobs of removing and processing animal carcasses, found themselves in the middle of a socio-cultural melee that would eventually cost them their lives. Amid the din of many voices, details appeared sketchy at the beginning, but after a few days had passed by, certain facts have emerged. The five lower-caste men had been seen skinning a dead cow; there was nothing unusual about that. Millions of dead cows go through this process and the hides of many of those cows end up as part of our shoes, jackets, car seats etc. Some religious fanatics had spread the rumor that lower caste men had skinned a cow alive. After hearing this, instead of sorting out the facts before taking action, a number of religious extremists in India reacted violently to the news. The cow, being a sacred presence in the pantheon of gods in the Hindu tradition, assumes a social presence as a revered object. The tension in the street was palpable and the five young lower-caste men sought refuge in the local police station, hoping the police would find the truth of the matter and confirm the fact that they had skinned a dead cow. In no time, a crowd of a few thousand gathered in front of the police station, their fury whipped up by the religious extremists. The young men were dragged out of the police station in the presence of police officers, who, rather than preserving law and order, joined the ranks of the hundreds of bystanders as the five young men's bodies were mutilated, their eyes gouged out, and finally burned to death. The police defended their inaction by citing the size of the crowd and the mounting fury in the street. They went along with the masses to keep from also becoming the victims of their rage. As if the insanity had not reached its lowest point, the police ordered an autopsy - not of the human victims - but of the dead cow, to determine if the cow was dead or alive while being skinned by the five young men. The police wanted to determine if the crowd had a genuine reason behind their rage and subsequent acts of terror, the mob killing of five young men accused by the imaginary laws of extremists in India. The autopsy and ensuing investigation did confirm that the cow had been dead for 24 hours before being skinned and the lower-caste men had skinned it to prevent the rotting smell. No arrests were made following this ghastly mob killing. The leaders of some of the Hindu extremist groups went as far as to say that the life of a cow was more valuable than five young men from the lower castes. As usual, the perpetrators are at large; the federal government has called for an inquiry into the massacre; few voices in the media vented their anger at the ghastly acts; and life goes on to other important chapters of life: Bollywood, cross-border terrorism, the economy, and so on. Udit Raj, the chairperson of the All-India Confederation of Scheduled Caste/Scheduled Tribes (terms used to refer to lower caste and tribal Indians), points to the fallacy of the logic of these perpetrators, the religious fanatics: "Even if assuming for a moment this were true (the skinning alive of a cow, the mother symbol), do you kill the children of five mothers in this manner for one cow? If they (religious fanatics) really believe the cow is their mother, how can they sell their own mother for Rs 200 when she gets old and stops giving milk? And why do they not cremate the cow themselves; why do they give her to the Dalits (the lower castes) to do what the son is supposed to do according to their religion? Conversion is the only solution for the Dalits if they want to have a life of dignity which is free of oppression and humiliation." The family members of the victims have converted to Buddhism, Islam, and Christianity, hoping their lives would at least equal the value of a cow in their new religious faiths. Many people who chose Islam and Christianity rather than Buddhism are being harassed by Hindu extremists who do not wish their numbers to be thinned out as a result of feared religious terrorism. While millions across India are being sensitized to cross-border terrorism, the growing sewage of home-grown terrorism is flooding the streets of cities and towns across the country, consuming innocent lives under the garb of nationalism and national security. Cross-border terrorism and home grown terrorism have a lot in common, including their common end result, depriving India of its goal of national peace and prosperity. For over a billion unsuspecting Indians, the choice between the two is not a choice between safety and terror, just a choice between two different routes to death. Religious terrorism has to be confronted head on in all its manifestations, whether it is packaged in an Islamic or in a Hindu veil. This unfortunate task faces not only those residing in South Asia but billions across the planet. [Vishavjit Singh was raised in both India and the U.S. and has a Masters Degree in Public Health. He has a passion for writing about issues that reside mainly in the short term memory of most people, issues that should not be forgotten and which confront us as a global community to take action. He lives in the United States.] Vishavjit Singh encourages your comments: vishavjit@ YellowTimes.org is an international news and opinion publication. YellowTimes.org encourages its material to be reproduced, reprinted, or broadcast provided that any such reproduction identifies the original source, http://www.YellowTimes.org. Internet web links to http://www.YellowTimes.org are appreciated.

By naming GHQ, I meant to agree with Shiva in principle.

Dear Stonehearted, Now that you mention VNN and Chakra. There have been several other attempts at News sites, but every one of them has been flawed by seeing their site as a propaganda tool, rather than as a service to the devotees. The devotees are now a far wider group than simply the disciples of one or the other spiritual master. But I believe that anyone who is genuinely implicated in the movement, directly or indirectly, has an interest in hearing (1) News of successes. (2) Multifaceted discussions of failures (not simply reports based on one individual's viewpoint; in other words a modicum of investigative journalism where negative stories are "in the news." (3) Well-written editorials that shine genuine light on problems that face the movement. (4) Devotee interpretation of world events. There seems to be no one to come forth and put the energy needed to construct such a site, with the active commitment, etc., required to do a decent job. More and more devotees, especially the "diaspora" of fringies, are dependent on the internet for their sat-sanga and their news of the movement, but they are looking for material that does not insult their intelligence. Jagat

I would just like to publicly and vocally thank Madhavananda Das, disciple of Gaur Govinda Swami, and Bhakta Rupa Das, both of Bhubaneswar, who embody to me all that is best in Iskcon. May the Divine Couple of Vrindavan, and the glorious Trinity of Jagannath Dham shower them with infinite blessings. All glories to their service! All glories to their generosity! All glories to their saragrahita! Your servant, Jagadananda Das

The signatories of that letter were all connected to the GHQ group that represents the most conservative faction of Iskcon. Observe the references to the women's brain issue in this letter. They bear a grudge against Vipramukhya because he permitted Madhusudani Radha (the "feminist") to publish on Chakra promoting higher status for women. This was about the only progressive thing that Vipramukhya did. For the rest, the criticisms of Vipramukhya as sometimes acting like a superficial lightweight have some merit.

I must have written something about Padma Purana, but I can't find it. Similar problems to those of BVP are found with many other works: Narada Pancharatra, Padma Purana, Gautamiya Tantra, etc. The extant editions are missing large numbers of verses that are quoted and contain others that for some reason or another appear suspicious. For instance, the extant Padma Purana contains the bhukti-mukti-sprihA yAvat pizAcI hRdi vartate verse, which is famously Rupa Goswami's own composition. What needs to be done is to establish the texts of these works as the Goswamis knew them. The electronic edition of the Padma Purana I have is interesting. I have been able to establish that certain sections of the PP were being used and others not. It certainly facilitates research, but as yet, I don't believe a critical edition of PadmaP has been prepared. The HBV cites large portions of various puranas. I have noticed that sometimes SkandaPurana sections are found in PadmaP; I have also found verses ascribed by Rupa to PadmaP in NarPan. This means to me that certain portions were "free flowing." A mahatmya or sthala-purana might have been ascribed by some to one, by others to another Purana. The Gaudiyas do not seem to have been particularly interested in the Puranas other than the Bhagavatam after the Goswamis had made a selection of the choice verses. The difference with the BVP is that it seems to have been changed wholesale.

There are problems with all these puranas. None of the verses Jiva quotes are in the extant edition. On the other hand, there are many things that seem useful to his philosophical argument if he had wished to use them. <blockquote>Further elaborations of the gopi-Krishna story are found in certain later puranas or upapuranas. Chief amongst these are the Padma-purana (PadP), Brahma-vaivarta-purana (BVP) and Brahmanda-purana (BäP), though others such as the Devi-bhagavata and Maha-bhagavata-purana also contain relevant details. The dating of these works is uncertain and a wide margin of error is possible. R. C. Hazra’s examination of linguistic characteristics and geographical data in these puranas and their consequent ascription to the Shakta stronghold of the Kamarupa area and Bengal seem reasonable. His work on the upapuranas is unfortunately blemished by ascribing excessive age to the majority of these works. Of the above-mentioned works, the Brahma-vaivarta-puräëa (BVP) has excited the most scholastic interest for its emphasis on Radha as the personification of the divine energy or Shakti. She is the goddess and is given status equal or greater than that of Krishna. The most reputable scholars seem to opt for dates for this work in the period immediately preceding the great bhakti movements of the sixteenth century. As with other puranas, the integrity of the text is somewhat in doubt, and the possibility that the hands of more than one author in one period was involved in its composition can be entertained. The work is cited several times by Jiva in his Sat-sandarbha, but he never refers to any portion of the work that relates to the matter of Radha’s relation to Krishna. Indeed, those portions of BVP that glorify Radha are not used by Jiva or any of his associates at all, despite their obvious usefulness for their doctrines. Jiva and his predecessors were not above drawing useful quotations from unpromising contexts where they could be supportive of their own arguments, so disagreements with one portion of a work never stopped them from using another portion, if it suited their purpose. The Padma-purana is a case in point. Jiva has used a portion of this work as pivotal to his arguments about Krishna’s return to Vraja, but does not cite those portions that appear to favour the parakIyA version of the nitya-lila. If we accept Hazra’s contention about the provenance of the BVP from Bengal, then this absence is surprising and leads one to suspect that the work may be of an even later date. Like the other upapuranas mentioned above, the extant BVP has a synchretic agenda: there is an attempt to assimilate the doctrines of the Shaktas and the Vaishnavas into a harmonious vision. BVP’s Vaishnava leanings are somewhat more pronounced than the overtly Shakta Devi-bhagavata or Maha-bhagavata-purana, both of whose raison d’être is clearly to outdo the Vaishava BhP. The connection of the DeviBhP to the BVP (which is almost certainly the later) is underscored by the great amount of material that is common to both. The BVP also attempts to bring about a synthesis of the apparently conflicting doctrines parakiya and svakiya. This tends to suggest thatthe work was written after the issue had become contentious, in short, during or after the floruit of the second generation of Chaitanyaite Vaishnavas. According to BVP, when Radha’s father, Vrishabhanu, saw that she was approaching puberty, he gave her in marriage to one Rayana. This Rayana is identified as an amsa of Krishna in Goloka and his maternal uncle. The Radha he marries, however, is a chAyA form; the real Radha absconds. The BVP further adds that Krishna’s birth came when Radha was fourteen years old and that she (the real Radha) was married to Krishna according to the religious principles by Brahma, who had performed penances for sixty thousand years to obtain this blessing. This latter event is described in detail in the Krishna-janma-khanda (BVP iv.15.119-131). It has been pointed out by many scholars that this unusual story of the baby Krishna being entrusted by Nanda to the fourteen year old Radha at the onset of rain, Krishna’s subsequent transformation into an adolescent, the descent of Lord Brahma, Radha and Krishna's marriage and subsequent dalliances on the banks of the Yamuna, have some relation to the introductory verse of Gita-govinda. This has led some to speculate that Jayadeva borrowed from BVP, but it seems far more likely that the opposite was true. The age difference between Radha and Krishna is nowhere else repeated. The marriage by Brahma is also found in the Garga Samhita (Goloka-khanda, ch. 16), but this is a much later work. The transcendental status of Radha is described extensively in BVP. She is created from the left side of Krishna’s body and is his own wife, adhering eternally to his chest, the tutelary deity of his life (BVP ii.48.47). svayaM rAdhA kRSNa-patnI kRSNa-vakSaH-sthala-sthitA | prANAdhiSThAtR-devI ca tasyaiva paramAtmanaH || In the Maha-bhagavata-purana, where Krishna is an incarnation of Kali and Radha of Shiva, Ayana is said to have married Radha, but became impotent immediately after the wedding as a result of Shiva’s wish (51.34). tAM rAdhAm upasaMyamyAyAna-gopo mahAmune | klIbatvMà sahasA prApa zambhor icchAnusArataH || (Cited in Hazra, Studies in the Upapuranas, 272-3.) </blockquote>(This is taken from my own notes.)