Jagat

The question is not one of political correctness, but accuracy of transmission. The example I gave above of ACBSP's translation of Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati should serve as an example. Prabhupada translates "dear" as "initiated." This is pretty radical. The Ritviks are quite right to be irritated by the change of this translation, because it is an obvious manipulation. Prabhupada knows what "priya" means, just as he was aware of the historical realities of the relations between the members of the Gaudiya Math parampara, so if he translated it that way, it must be honored. Of course, if there are tapes that reveal that Prabhupada did translate "priya" as "dear" and an editor revised it to "initiated" then that aggravates the problem. The next question is what was Siddhanta Saraswati's intention? He deliberately used the word "priya" because he knew that there was no initiation in the classical sense, so he avoided the term. He also avoided terms like "asrita" that are used to describe the disciple/guru relationships. So there is much to be understood about translations. The point is that ultimately we have to use our own intelligence to derive our own conclusions. Jayadvaita Maharaj would have served that end more honestly by following Rupa Vilasa's formula. Dhanurdhar Swami has published a commentary on the Nectar of Devotion, trying to tie it in to the original Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu, but has been far too conservative in his critique of the NOD, avoiding many of the hard questions, the out and out mistranslations, etc.

The problem as stated by the Ritviks is simply that no one has the personal qualifications to edit Prabhupada's books. However, if empowered, even an inferior jiva can accomplish miracles. Therefore, Hayagriva, being approved by Prabhupada, is beyond reproach. Prabhupada said it was perfect, therefore it was and nothing he did was to be changed. Being aware of this sensibility, it was foolhardy of Jayadvaita to go barging in and making changes because in his judgment Hayagriva did not do an adequate job. One who does not share the absolutist point of view might argue, as Jayadvaita Maharaj does, that Hayagriva Prabhu's knowledge of Sanskrit, of Indian culture, of Gaudiya Vaishnavism, etc., etc., was limited. There would be many things in Prabhupada's speech, references, locutions, pronunciation, quotes, etc., that would have passed such an editor by--what to speak of inherent ingrained cultural biases that would have influenced the final result. It is not only Jayadvaita Maharaj's right to point out these things, but it is something that is to be desired ardently by any serious student of Srila Prabhupada's thought. Similarly, Ekkehard Lorenz's study of the materials Srila Prabhupada used to translate the Bhagavatam is an invaluable service to the studyo f Srila Prabhupada's teachings.

Romapada Das has responded quite appropriately to an element in Hamsadutta's article that was remarked upon above. http://www.dipika.org/2003/05/16.20/19.vaisnava.etiquette.and.vnn/index.html

Much as I dread entering a discussion on initiation, I would like to make the following comment on the above critique of changes to CC. I don't know what Srila Prabhupada said before transcription, etc. But I do know what the original Bengali of Siddhanta Saraswati said, and I wrote this in articles years and years ago. Prabhupada's exact text in the original edition is as follows:<blockquote>Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is none other than the combined form of Sri Radha and Krsna. He is the life of those devotees who strictly follow in the footsteps of Srila Rupa Gosvami. Srila Rupa Gosvami and Srila Sanatana Gosvami are the two principal followers of Srila Svarupa Damodara Gosvami, who acted as the most confidential servitor of Lord Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu, known as Visvambhara in His early life. A direct disciple of Srila Rupa Gosvami was Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami. The author of Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami, stands as the direct disciple of Srila Rupa Gosvami and Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami. The direct disciple of Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami was Srila Narottama dasa Thakura, who accepted Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti as his servitor. Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura accepted Srila Jagannatha dasa Babaji, who initiated Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, who in turn initiated Srila Gaurakisora dasa Babaji, the spiritual master of Om Visnupada Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja, the divine master of our humble self.</blockquote> If we read Siddhanta Sarasawati's original, however, there are a large number of differing relations stated. (1) Svarupa "loving servant" to Mahaprabhu (priyankar) (2) Rupa and Sanata are Svarupa's "friends" (mitra) (3) Raghunatha was "dear" to Rupa. (4) Krishnadas was "dear" to Raghunath. (5) "Most dear" (priya-vara) to Krishnadas was Narottam. (6) Visvanath "aspired" to Narottam's feet. (7) Jagannath had faith (sraddha) in Visvanath. (8) Bhaktivinoda was dear (priya) to Jagannath. (9) no relation betwee Gaur Kishor and Bhaktivinoda is stipulated. (10) Siddhanta Saraswati desires the remnants of Gaur Kishor. It is indeed a significant matter of interpretation: Can any of these terms be held to mean "initiation"? Was Saraswati Thakur's intention to equate them to initation? I don't intend to pursue this issue, as I have already said my piece, which is of interest to only a few... Jagat

By the way, I also find Hamsadutta's post distasteful for his personal attack on Jayadvaita. Who is Hamsadutta to call anyone names, much less Jayadvaita?

I fully agree with Rupa Vilasa's idea. It was a great misjudgment on Jayadvaita's part to try to make his version the "official" one. He has now had to spend years defending his decision, which seems to have largely been motivated by contempt for Hayagriva. Hayagriva may have been less than exemplary as a devotee, but he was in my opinion a superior writer to Jayadvaita. The kind of work Jayadvaita did, however, is invaluable and necessary in the struggle for Krishna consciousness to reach maturity. There are so many academic issues of text criticism at issue here that devotees generally avoid. Statement of problem: Prabhupada spoke the absolute truth. An editor made changes. Then Prabhupada said that these changes are perfect. An educated observer compares the editorial changes to Prabhupada's original statements and discovers that the editor has deviated from Prabhupada's original intent, language, spirit or whatever. Out of respect for Prabhupada's absolute authority, he feels it necessary to replicate Prabhupada's original intent. So which manifestation of Prabhupada's absolute authority is more authoritative? The contradiction seems to lie in Prabhupada's "absolute authority" itself. This, of course, does not take into consideration questions of Prabhupada vs. the original Gita, the commentaries of previous acharyas, etc. Are there differences/changes here? Tamal Krishna (God rest his soul) seemed to think that a scholarly approach to Prabhupada's writing was possible and that this would contribute to the evolution of Krishna consciousness and the maturing of its adherents. Differing versions of a text force us to compare and analyze, to deepen our understanding of the essential questions, in other words to engage our intelligence in the service of Krishna--jnana-yajnena tenaham isto'smi.

<h3>Dowry Too High. Lose Bride and Go to Jail.</h3> By JAMES BROOKE (NYTIMES) OIDA, India, May 16 — The musicians were playing, the 2,000 guests were dining, the Hindu priest was preparing the ceremony and the bride was dressed in red, her hands and feet festively painted with henna. Then, the bride's family says, the groom's family moved in for the kill. The dowry of two televisions, two home theater sets, two refrigerators, two air-conditioners and one car was too cheap. They wanted $25,000 in rupees, now, under the wedding tent. As a free-for-all erupted between the two families, the bartered bride put her hennaed foot down. She reached for her royal blue cellphone and dialed 100. By calling the police, Nisha Sharma, a 21-year-old computer student, saw her potential groom land in jail and herself land in the national spotlight as India's new overnight sensation. "Are they marrying with money, or marrying with me?" Ms. Sharma asked today, her dark eyes glaring under arched eyebrows. In the next room a fresh wave of reporters waited to interview her, sitting next to the unopened boxes of her wedding trousseau. After fielding a call from a comic-book artist who wanted to bring her act of defiance last Sunday night to a mass market, she said, "I'm feeling proud of myself." "It Takes Guts to Send Your Groom Packing," a headline in The Times of India read. Rashtriya Sahara, a major Hindi daily, said in a salute, "Bravo: We're Proud of You." "She is being hailed as a New Age woman and seen as a role model to many," the newspaper Asian Age wrote next to a front-page drawing of Ms. Sharma standing in front of red and green wedding pennants while flashing a V sign to cameras and wearing a sash over her blue sari with the words Miss Anti-Dowry. "This was a brave thing for a girl dressed in all her wedding finery to do," said Vandana Sharma, president of the Women's Protection League, one of many women's rights leaders and politicians to make a pilgrimage this week to this eastern suburb of Delhi. "This girl has taken a very dynamic step." India's new 24-hour news stations have propelled Nisha Sharma to Hindi stardom. One television station set up a service allowing viewers to "send a message to Nisha." In the first two days, 1,500 messages came in. Illegal for many decades in India, dowries are now often disguised by families as gifts to give the newlyweds a start in life. More than a media creation, Ms. Sharma and her dowry defiance struck a chord in this nation, whose expanding middle class is rebelling against a dowry tradition that is being overfed by a new commercialism. "Advertisements now show parents giving things to make their daughters happy in life," Brinda Karat, general secretary of the All India Democratic Women's Association, a private group, said, referring to television commercials for products commonly given in dowries. "It is the most modern aspects of information technology married to the most backward concepts of subordination of women," Ms. Karat continued in a telephone interview. Last year, she said, her group surveyed 10,000 people in 18 of India's 26 states. "We found an across-the-board increase in dowry demand," she said. Much of the dowry greed is new, Ms. Karat added. In a survey 40 years ago, she noted, almost two-thirds of Indian communities reported that the local custom was for the groom to pay the bride's family, the reverse of the present dominant custom. According to government statistics, husbands and in-laws angry over small dowry payments killed nearly 7,000 women in 2001. When Ms. Sharma's parents were married in 1970, "my father-in-law did not demand anything," her mother, Hem Lata Sharma, said while serving hot milk tea and cookies to guests. For the Sharma family, the demands went far beyond giving the young couple a helping hand. Dev Dutt Sharma, Nisha's father, said his potential in-laws were so demanding that they had stipulated brands. "She specified a Sony home theater, not a Philips," Mr. Sharma, an owner of car battery factories, said of Vidya Dalal, the mother of the groom, Munish Dalal, 25. Sharma Jaikumar, a telecommunications engineer and friend of the Sharma family, said as the press mob ebbed and flowed through the house: "My daughter was married recently and there was no dowry. But anyone can turn greedy. What can be more easy money than a dowry? All you have to do is ask." With Mr. Dalal in jail for 14 days, pending formal charges of violating India's laws against dowries, the groom's family has disappeared. Before going underground, they charged that Ms. Sharma had had an affair with a student at her university and that she had a "mark" on her back, implying that she had contracted a disease. Mr. Sharma bought two sets of each electrical appliance. One was for the couple. The other was for the groom's older brother, who had headed the household after the death of their father. The demand for $25,000, carefully timed to hit Mr. Sharma when he was at his most vulnerable, was to go to the groom's mother. A believer in arranged marriages, Mr. Sharma found the groom by placing a classified ad in two of Delhi's elite English-language newspapers, a common practice here. Today he recommended that fathers of brides check the bona fides of prospective in-laws. His potential son-in-law was not a computer engineer, he said, but a computer instructor. The mother was not a vice principal of a private school, but a gym teacher. That fact came home to him on Sunday night when Mrs. Dalal slapped him across the face for refusing her demand for cash. "The slap was so tight that she made me realize that she really is a physical training instructor," Mr. Sharma said today, rubbing his left cheek at the memory. "The finger marks of her slap, later, after four hours, figured in my medical legal examination." "Then Savitry Devi spit on my face," he continued, referring to the groom's aunt. "This was dowry cum blackmailing. I wanted to call police and dial my mobile, but it was snatched by somebody." Instead, his daughter called the police. When the police came, Mr. Sharma said, they spent an hour calming the wedding party, giving the groom and his family ample time to escape. To make a show of action, they detained the musicians' bus. Mr. Sharma intervened, and the musicians were freed. [Typical] Three hours after the brawl, when Mr. Sharma was registering his complaint at the police station, a television crew from the Aaj Tak news channel happened to be at the station. "With the pressure of the media people, the police went to the boy's house and arrested him," Mr. Sharma said. Today the Sharmas had no regrets about their expensive wedding collapsing in chaos. "People say now it will be very difficult to marry my daughter again," Mr. Sharma said. "But I thought, if trouble is starting today, tomorrow may be worse. It could be killing. I thought, let the money go." Unfazed by the loss of her fiancé, Ms. Sharma said that since Monday she had received 20 to 25 marriage proposals, by cellphone, e-mail and letter. [Good for her!]

I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

Five of Saddam's lookalike doubles were called into a meeting by his son. "I have some good news and some bad news. The good news is that Saddam is alive. The bad news is that he has lost an arm!"

Just one more comment about culture. Language is a medium for love. Rupa Goswami, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, Jiva Goswami, Vishwanath Chakravarti, Govinda Kaviraj, Narottam Das, Krishnadas Kaviraj, to name just a few, expressed themselves and their love for Gaura-Krishna in Bengali and Sanskrit. Bhaktivinoda Thakur, Saraswati Thakur, and Bhaktivedanta Swami all expressed themselves primarily in Bengali. One who claims to love these saints and has adopted them as gurus naturally tries to approach them, to come closer to them. How can you come close to someone without learning their language. Of course, I don't say that Krishna does not transcend language, nor that ultimately Krishna consciousness culture must become vernacularized and not the monopoly of a particular linguistic elite, nevertheless, the strength of the movement itself depends not only on its breadth, but its depth. The depth of the tradition depends on individuals going into it deeply and this means knowing the languages in which that tradition was born and developed. Jai Gaura!

Your question is unfounded. Very few devotees in Iskcon learn Sanskrit, Hindi or Bengali. Even those Westerners in the Gaudiya Math, who almost by definition are more serious about authenticity, rarely learn even Bengali. Though I am a firm believer in the modernization of the Vaishnava tradition--by which I mean allowing it to be informed by the philosophical and theological developments in other traditions, Christian, secular or other--I also feel that one can only get a real feel for the flavors or rasas of this tradition through a familiarity with its original languages. Religion is as much a matter of culture as of theology. Conversion to Vaishnavism means adopting certain cultural artefacts, but the medium of these artefacts is their language. I would also say that knowledge of the languages has the advantage of demystifying them. Those who don't know the language tend to mystify concepts with foreign words, etc., that they don't really understand. This is why in Iskcon in particular there is a suspicion of learning Sanskrit. Everything is in Prabhupada's books, they say, so what need of separate efforts to learn Sanskrit and getting confused, even becoming a dry scholar or Sahajiya? I have nothing but contempt for this attitude. Anyone who claims to be a "Brahmin" should learn Sanskrit as a matter of course. Your servant, Jagat

A better understanding than most. No situation is entirely clear. Point number one: In world politics, the past is the past and has nothing to do with now. Example: If the U.S. supported Hussein in the past, that was wrong. Does it mean that opposing Hussein now is not right? Point number two: I heard a Kurd on the radio yesterday talking about Tony Blair, that he was pushed to take his position out of a vision of the moral use of power, as a result of Rwanda, Bosnia, etc. Again, nobody wanted to act then, but should no one act now? In 1991, everyone said Bush I made a mistake in not going through to the end, allowing Hussein to kill another 250,000 of his own people. Point number three: Agreed: the whole thing is definitely full of s*h*i*t, but now that it is underway, let's hope that the ostensible American objectives are achieved with the absolute minimum harm to civilian life. I would think the Iraqi people are exhausted after more than twenty years of war, sanctions and suffering. I'll bet a majority of the Sunnis are ready to surrender without a shot. The majority of Shias and Kurds are ready to support American intervention. If anyone has a right to feel a grudge against the Americans it is the Shias, who were horribly betrayed by them in 1991. I pray that this action will be an expiation for this great U.S. sin. The odds are 50-50 that 50% of American long-term objectives will be met. The U.S. must not get out too early, even though the task that faces them will be thankless. It may take ten years to establish the kinds of institutions that will lead to responsible government in a country where the neighboring countries all have their noses deep into the kind of power structure they want to see--none of which is fair or democratic. If the Americans leave too soon, there will be anarchy, and like you say, the same kind of Islamicist obscurantism for which this is supposed to part of the solution. One last thing: The U.S. will be very highly motivated to succeed in the post-Saddam era. They have abandoned Afghanistan and most of the other places they have intervened since Korea. They will not be able to get away with that this time. The real American objective is to change the face of the Middle East completely. I don't know where it will end, but I bet all the countries around Iraq are worried--and it is not about civilian casualities, either. It's about keeping their own putrid governments alive.

As I recall, Krishadeva Raya spent all his time fighting the only other Hindu king in the area, Prataparudra. Hindus fought with Hindus, with or without Muslim allies. They really did not give a hoot. Those plundering the Jagannath temple on behalf of the Moghuls included Hindus like Kesho Das. They didn't give a hoot.

I am looking for the source of this verse: <center>advaita-prakaTI-kRto narahari-preSThaH svarUpa-priyo nityAnanda-sakhaH sanAtana-gatiH zré-rUpa-hRt-ketanaH | lakSmI-prANa-patir gadAdhara-rasollAsI jagannAtha-bhUH sAGgopAGga-sa-pArSadaH sa dayatAM devaH zacI-nandanaH ||</center> <blockquote>Made to appear by Advaita, most beloved of Narahari, dear to Svarupa Damodar, the friend of Nityananda, the refuge of Sanatan, who resides in Rupa's heart, the beloved husband of Lakshmi Priya, the delight of Gadadhara, the son of Jagannath Misra--may the son of Sachi with all his expansions, associates and companions be ever merciful to us.

Not in translated form. There have been several editions published over the years in Sanskrit with either Hindi or Bengali translations. The edition I have is by Haridas Shastri, with Hindi translation. This is the one I am working from to prepare the Gaudiya Grantha Mandir edition, but that will have no translation. I am finding the HBV rather interesting from a textual point of view. Gopala Bhatta himself says in several places that he is basing his viewpoint on the Krama Dipika, an important Nimbarka sampradaya text. On the whole, however, HBV uses practically nothing from the South Indian Pancharatra tradition and far more from the Skanda, Padma, Purana, Vishnudharmottara, Naradiya and Vishnu Puranas, in approximately that order (though I will do a more accurate count when I am finished). The Bhagavata is also quoted extensively, but mostly in the 10th and 11th chapters, i.e., those not concerned with specifics of ritual, but of broadly based Vaishnava activities. These are the ones that would contain material most familiar to Gaudiya Vaishnavas, who would consider much of the rest of the book to be of somewhat arcane interest. The Pancharatrika texts used--principally Gautamiya Tantra, Narada Pancharatra, Hayasirsha Pancharatra, Sanatkumara Kalpa (not Samhita), Krama Dipika--are not part of the South Indian Pancharatrika tradition, though they evidently share common features. The third set of sources for HBV, used in far less amount, are the traditional Smriti Shastras. Another interesting feature of HBV is its marginal importance for Gaudiya Vaishnavas. In many ways it and Krama Dipika (at least where Pancharatrika matters are concerned) have been superseded in our sampradaya by works like Radhakrishna Das's Sadhana Dipika, Dhyana Chandra's Paddhati, Siddha Krishna Das's Sadhanamrita-candrika and Gaura-govindarcana-paddhati, etc. Bhakti-candrika contains specifics of Gaura Puja. The relationship of current Gaudiya practices to HBV could be compared to the relationship of Goswami lila texts to the Bhagavata itself. They are starting points only. An in-depth comparative study of these ritual texts is desirable. I would especially be interested in the possible link with the Nimbarka sampradaya, especially where the specific mantras (18-syllable and Kama-gayatri) are concerned. Mantra links are especially important where sampradayas are concerned and should be taken into consideration wherever diksha, etc., are discussed.

That version of HBV contains only the 1st, 8th, 9th and parts of the 15th and 16th vilasas.

Just to add, Nanak was almost exactly contemporaneous to Chaitanya. He came to Puri once and wrote the following poem after seeing arati in the Jagannath temple (ca. 1518): “In the salver of the sky The Sun and Moon shine like lamps, The galaxy of stars are scattered like pearls; The chandan-scented winds waft as Thine incense, The forests are Thy flowers. (Thus) is Thy arati (adoration) performed, O, Thou Destroyer of fear!”

Sikhism did not exist in the 13-14th centuries. The earliest material in the Guru Granth Sahib comes from the early Sants like Kabir and Ruidas, which would have been written in the late 15th century. North Indian bhakti in the vernacular was really born about this time. The Sants were "nirgun" bhaktas, in that their conception of God is similar to that of the Muslims--personal, but formless. Their mystical hierarchies are closer to those of the Sufis than of Hindus, but they also use a lot of yoga terminology, especially that of the Nath yogis.

Young King Arthur was ambushed and imprisoned by the monarch of a neighbouring kingdom. The monarch could have killed him, but was moved by Arthur's youth and ideals. So the monarch offered him freedom, as long as he could answer a very difficult question. Arthur would have a year to figure out the answer and if, after a year, he still had no answer, he would be put to death. The question was: What do women really want? Such a question would perplex even the most knowledgeable man and, to young Arthur, it seemed an impossible query. But, since it was better than death, he accepted the monarch's proposition to have an answer by year's end. He returned to his kingdom and began to poll everybody: the princess, the priests, the prostitutes, the wise men, the court jester. He spoke with everyone, but no one could give him a satisfactory answer. Many people advised him to consult an old witch. Only she would know the answer. The price would be high, however, as the witch was famous throughout the kingdom for the exorbitant prices she charged. The last day of the year arrived and Arthur had no alternative but to talk to the witch. She agreed to answer his question, but he'd have to accept her price first: she wanted to marry Gawain, the most noble of the Knights of the Round Table and Arthur's closest friend! Young Arthur was horrified as the witch was hunchbacked and hideous, had only one tooth, smelled like sewage, made obscene noises ... etc. He had never encountered such a repugnant creature and he refused to force his friend to marry her and endure such a burden. Gawain, upon learning of the proposal, spoke with Arthur. He told him that no sacrifice was too high compared to Arthur's life and the preservation of the Round Table. Hence, their wedding was proclaimed, and the witch answered Arthur's question thusly: What a woman really wants is to be in charge of her own life. Everyone instantly knew that the witch had uttered a great truth and that Arthur's life would be spared. And it was so. The neighbouring monarch granted Arthur total freedom and Gawain and the witch were to be married. Arthur was torn between relief and anguish. Gawain was proper as always, gentle and courteous. The old witch put her worst manners on display during the wedding ceremony and made everyone very uncomfortable. The honeymoon hour approached. Gawain, steeling himself for a horrific experience, entered the bedroom. But what a sight awaited him! The most beautiful woman he'd ever seen lay before him! The astounded Gawain asked what had happened. The beauty replied that since he had been so kind to her when she'd appeared as a witch, she would henceforth be her horrible, deformed self only half the time, and the other half she would be her beautiful maiden self. Which would he want her to be during the day and which during the night? What a cruel question! Gawain pondered his predicament: during the day, a beautiful woman to show off to his friends but, at night in the privacy of his home, a hideous witch? Or vice-a-versa? What would you do? What Gawain chose follows below but don't read it until you've decided which choice you think he should have made. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Noble Gawain replied that he would let her choose for herself. Upon hearing this, the witch announced that she would be beautiful all the time because he had respected her enough to let her be in charge of her own life. What is the moral of this story? The moral is this: If a woman doesn't get her own way, she's gonna get damned ugly about it!.

I forgot that I had posted this on my website. It still needs work, but here is a taste of Dana keli anyway. http://www.granthamandira.org/jagat/articles/showarticle.php?id=80

Dana-keli. Rupa Goswami wrote Dana-keli-kaumudi, which I translated and published--I guess it must have been on VNN forums way back when.

Read chapters 29-37 of Gopala Uttara champu.

Discussing doesn't necessarily mean understanding. We always say that the Holy Name Form and pastimes are touchstones. They do not require understanding to exercise a powerful transcendental effect. Somehow, those rules change when it comes to Radha katha, at least in some circles. My opinion is that, qualified or unqualified, we should discuss, enjoy and try to understand Radha katha. Dwell on it, in other words. It is the central core of Mahaprabhu's religion. If you shut Radha out, you may as well take another path. If it is a question of qualification, I have a secret: You'll never be qualified. What does it all mean? Try to understand: if you say "incomprehensible, avoid," you show lack of sraddha. Without sraddha, how are nistha, asakti, ruchi, bhava, etc., possible? Some people say that raganuga bhakti only comes after bhava has been attained through vidhi marga. This is a complete travesty of Rupa Goswami's teachings.

Same thing for the Catholic Church, too. In principle. I am a regular visitor to St. Joseph's Oratory here in Montreal. I am glad it's there. There are many, many rooms in our Father's house.

Same thing for the Catholic Church, too. In principle. I am a regular visitor to St. Joseph's Oratory here in Montreal. I am glad it's there. There are many, many rooms in our Father's house.