Jagat

Look in the earlier post. I am not saying "Like Damodar Gupta." I am just saying that he said this.

There are thickets nearby, the gods are hidden, there are lots of young men around; because we have given you in marriage to an old man: don't cry, my dear, for his village is a good one.

After sixty, she attains good fortune, she becomes the equal of Rambha after a hundred; but Indra cedes a place on his throne to the wanton when she has known her thousandth lover.

Did you read the article? No one is trying to "twist" anything. The above was a quotation from a Sanskrit verse by Damodara Gupta in Kuttani-matam. Damodara Gupta lived in Kashmir in the 9th or 10th century. dAra-ratiH santataye vyAdhi-prazamAya ceTikAzleSaH | tat khalu surataM surataM kRcchra-prApyaM yad anya-nArISu || (verse 811) The other two are: Sringara Tilaka by Rudra Bhatta 2.31ad: ullaGghyApi sakhI-vacaH samucitAm utsRjya lajjAm alam hitvA bhIti-bharaM nirasya ca nijaM saubhAgya-garvaM manAk | AjJAM kevalam eva manmatha-guror AdAya nUnaM mayA tvaM niHzeSa-vilAsi-varga-gaNanA-cUDAmaNe saMzritaH || Ibid. 1.61; ananya-zaraNA svIyA dhanAhAryA parAGganA | asyAs tu kevalaM prema tenaiSA rAgiNAM matA ||

<font color=#660099>That which follows the above quote:</font> Though he indicated that he did not approve of the proselytization in favour of adulterous love found in Kutt and works of that type, Rudra Bhatta seems to have been the first Sanskrit writer to find something positive to say about the paroDhA nAyikA. Rudra's main characterization of this nayika is that she is brazen, as indeed most of the examples show her to be. Though Rudra Bhatta betrays no particular interest in Krishna (his benedictory verses are Shiva-oriented), his sympathetic example of the paroDhA certainly gives a foretaste of the later Vaishnava descriptions of Radha: <blockquote>Ignoring even the advice of my friends, renouncing the shyness appropriate to my station, abandoning the burden of fear, erasing entirely all pride in my own good fortune, only taking the orders of my guru, the god of love, I have taken shelter of you, the crest-jewel amongst lovers, who have caused me to ignore all others.</blockquote>Ultimately, though, Rudra Bhatta shows favour for the kanyA over the paroDhA, though this approval is hardly based on moral grounds: <blockquote>The wife has no other choice, the wife of another must be bought with gifts, the unmarried girl has only love, and is therefore preferred by lovers.</blockquote>

Did you read the article on Sanskrit verse and meter? Madhavji, If you can't get it done, send it back. I should be able to get it transfered to CD here. Trouble is no one uses DAT any more--and hardly anyone did in the first place. It's like BETA in video--and with DVD being the current technology, who's got BETA?

This is also the way one would spell "Christian" in modern Hindi.

I would do it like this: khrisTiyAn

Did you ever get the DAT tape converted? It would be nice to have the audio...

The mula text is on www.granthamandira.org. The commentaries will appear there one day. No audio, however.

How about an arrow type links at the bottom of each page leading to the next verse or back to the previous, for eacy manoeuvring between verses? Possibly a double arrow to go to the end or beginning of the chapter. And of course, back to menu.

Already down for maintenance!! This is actually great work. It is a great tool for research. We are planning to redo (one day) the Gaudiya Vaishnava Abhidhana which, with the electronic tools we expect to have one day, will be more complete than the present edition. We intend to base the dictionary on the Sanskrit commentaries, but obviously what you have done is a great step in the right direction. Jagat

By now you should know that IQ tests are fairly meaningless, as they only consider one aspect of the intelligence. There are other kinds of intelligence, such as emotional, etc., that are equally if not more important. To think that one kind of intelligence is all in all is not very intelligent.

The British could control India without destroying manuscripts. Actually, the British did more to SAVE manuscripts and to promote the recuperation of manuscripts than Indians did themselves. The British created museums, universities for linguistic and archeological studies, etc. Even those who oppose Euro-centric interpretations of Indian history still have to use the scientific discourse institutionalized by the British in order to legitimize their arguments. Superficial rhetoric and farfetched conspiracy theories are laughable, if they were not used to promote certain distasteful fascistic-type agendas. There are enough injustices in the past without having to invent new ones. At the same time, the need to fancy a golden past of infinite glory is one that the rational human being stands on guard against. In this respect, Guruvani is perfectly correct. It is worth understanding the past, but not in order to preserve and continue old recriminations and grudges, which prevent us from changing the present and building the future.

The British could control India without destroying manuscripts. Actually, the British did more to SAVE manuscripts and to promote the recuperation of manuscripts than Indians did themselves. The British created museums, universities for linguistic and archeological studies, etc. Even those who oppose Euro-centric interpretations of Indian history still have to use the scientific discourse institutionalized by the British in order to legitimize their arguments. Superficial rhetoric and farfetched conspiracy theories are laughable, if they were not used to promote certain distasteful fascistic-type agendas. There are enough injustices in the past without having to invent new ones. At the same time, the need to fancy a golden past of infinite glory is one that the rational human being stands on guard against. In this respect, Guruvani is perfectly correct. It is worth understanding the past, but not in order to preserve and continue old recriminations and grudges, which prevent us from changing the present and building the future.

So at first look I said “Good, simple, straightforward Sanskrit for the most part. Though I think I may well have done it differently, especially at the end.” On second thought I started to get the same kind of feeling I get when I read the Bible in Hindi or Bengali. The language seems so foreign—the vocabulary, the cadences, the syntax are all somewhat out of kilter. The word for word comes out correct, but the spirit of the language is missing. It is possible that this foreignness is a result of a too literal translation, or perhaps it has been done deliberately. The King James Bible has a rather distant relation to modern spoken and literary English, which is a tendency of religious language generally. It may also have been the desire of the translator to deliberately distance the Sanskrit from its traditional Hindu flavors. None of these seem to be particularly good reasons. The text as given: bho asmAkaM svargastha pitaH ! tava nAma pavitraM pUjyatAm | tava rAjyam AyAtu | yathA svarge tathA medinyAm api tavecchA sidhyatu | zvastanaM bhakSyam adyAsmabhyaM dehi | vayaM ca yathAsmad-aparAdhinAM kSamAmahe tathA tvam asmAkam aparAdhAn kSamasva | asmAMz ca parIkSAM mA naya, api tu durAtmana uddhara, yato rAjyaM parAkramaH pratApaz ca yuge yuge tavaiva | Comments:(1) svargasthaH pitaH: Technically this is correct, but svarga has too many connotations. The actual meaning of "heaven" is "sky", so I would have gone with "vyoma" or “parama-vyoma.” (2) tava nAma pavitraM pUjyatAm: The attempt to translate "hallowed" with pavitraM pUjyatAm, an unorthodox expression. If it is "your holy name be worshiped" then it should be tava pavitraM nAma pUjyatAm, which is better, except that the translator obviously sought to add meaning for "hallowed" that he felt Sanskrit could not provide. There is no reason why pUjyatAm alone would not suffice. (4) As above for svarge. medinyAM seems to lack the proper contrast to svarga. I would go with pRthivI-tale. icchA for "will" seems completely inadequate. saGkalpaH is the obviously correct word. (5) zvastanaM bhakSyam adyAsmabhyaM dehi : Two complaints: zvastanam why “tomorrow’s”? bhakSyam = food, but doesn’t have the same resonance as bread. The obvious equivalent is “annam” (6) vayaM ca yathAsmad-aparAdhinAM kSamAmahe: Forgive + genitive? (7) tathA tvam asmAkam aparAdhAn kSamasva: I find the construction of this entire sentence awkward. By switching the clauses around, the effect of the original is weakened. Better: asmAkam aparAdhAn kSamasva yathA vayaM svAparAdhinaH kSamAmahe (8) asmAMz ca parIkSAM mA naya: parIkSAm = temptation? (9) api tu durAtmana uddhara. durAtmanaH = evil? daurAtmyAt is better. (10) yato rAjyaM parAkramaH pratApaz ca yuge yuge tavaiva; The introduction of this final sentence with yataH “for” seems disjoined. How is there a causal relationship with what precedes? Some additional link is needed. So here is my proposed alternative translation. I have deliberately used anustup meter, because Sanskrit is a language that largely evolved through metrical rather than conversational usage. Many people would have the Mahabharata’s or Panchatantra’s verses ringing in their ears rather than spoken prose. The use of verse has entailed a little lengthening of some phrases, but I think this is justified for the rhythms and the additional words that flesh out the meaning of the original. deva bhoH pitar asmAkaM parame vyomni tiSThasi | tvadIyaM kIrtyatAM nAma tasmin prItiH sadAstu naH || sthApyatAM tava samrAjyam atraiva pRthivI-tale | yathA sva-dhAmni saGkalpaH siddhas te syAt tatheha saH || annaM dainandinaM dattvA pAlayAsmAn dine dine | kSamasva cAparAdhAn no jJAtvAjJAtvA tu vA kRtAn || yathAsmAbhir hi cAnyeSAm aparAdhA hi marjitAH | he prabho na tathaivAsmAn gamayAdharma-vartmani || lobhAt pApa-pravRttez ca daurAtmyAc caiva mocaya | yuktam etat yatas te’sti rAjyaM prabhAva-vaibhavaM | atra paratra sarvatra adya zvaz ca yuge yuge || A literal translation: Lord, you are our father who lives in heaven; Let your name be sung, and may we have love for it. May your reign also be established here on earth. Just as in your abode your will is fulfilled, may it so be here. Giving us our daily bread, maintain us day after day. Forgive us our offenses, which we have knowingly or unknowingly committed, just as we forgive the offenses of others. O Lord, do not lead us on the path of irreligion, and save us from greed, the propensity for sin and evil. This is all proper, for yours is the kingdom, the power and the glory in this world and in the next, everywhere, today, tomorrow and for all the ages. There are still some weaknesses here and there, but it is in my opinion a definite improvement... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Thanks for that. Very interesting. It's not in verse though. That stained-glass window does not seem to be Sanskrit, though. Good, simple, straightforward Sanskrit. But I have some comments. I will post tomorrow.

Sigh. This is mostly pointless fabrication and pure propaganda. Almost any point in this article can be torn to pieces and I don't intend to waste my energy. But take the dynasties, for instance. Did the British falsify hundreds of thousands of handwritten manuscripts just to undermine Hindu civilization? I think not.

Sigh. This is mostly pointless fabrication and pure propaganda. Almost any point in this article can be torn to pieces and I don't intend to waste my energy. But take the dynasties, for instance. Did the British falsify hundreds of thousands of handwritten manuscripts just to undermine Hindu civilization? I think not.

Many southeast asian countries were part of a "greater India" from the first millennium, with influences mostly from Bengal, Srilanka and Tamil for the rest. These were both Hindu and Buddhist, and yes, Sanskrit and Pali were known and used in these areas. There are still vestiges, especially in proper names. kAmabhoja == Cambodia. siMhapura = Singapore. brahma-deza = Burma (now Myanmar) yogya-kartA = Jogjakarta. These are genuine Sanskrit derivations and not the P.S.Oak confabulations. Sukarno Sukarnoputri. Mahathir Mohammad is an interesting combination of Pali Buddhist (mahA-sthIra) and Arabic.

God is my oath = devavratA pearl = muktAmaNi They don't go together all that well. The latter can be used as a female name, the former is a very common male name, but rarely used for girls.

We are currently working on a Goddess book for Mandala Publishing. I have been researching the Rukmini chapter, in the course of which I prepared chapter 16 of the Uttara champu, act 5 of Lalita Madhava, and three chapters of commentaries by Visvanath, etc., of the Bhagavatam, for eventual posting on GGM. Lots of good stuff. I was going to post more, but I've been busy with forum politics...

Do you want the English names written in Sanskrit, or the Sanskrit names? emilI-zArlATa would be (1) sugIta-manoharA (or whatever) would be (2) You have to know a little something about the Sanskrit alphabet before you can use it, because it doesn't work like the Roman.

<center>zlAghyAzeSa-tanuM sudarzana-karaH sarvAGga-lIlAjita- trailokyAM caraNAravinda-lalitenAkrAnta-loko hariH | bibhrANAM mukham indu-sundara-rucaM candrAtma-cakSur dadhat sthAne yAM sva-tanor apazyad adhikAM sA rukmiNI vo'vatAt ||</center><blockquote>Rukmini’s entire body is praiseworthy, whereas only Krishna’s hand can be called beautiful (i.e., he holds the Sudarshan disc in his hand). She triumphs over the three worlds easily with any one of her limbs, whereas Krishna had to step over them with his lotus feet (in his incarnation as Trivikrama). Rukmini’s entire face is itself as beautiful as the moon, while Krishna is only moon-eyed. No wonder Krishna found her to be superior to himself! May she be the one to protect us all. Dhvanyaloka 2.11</blockquote>

Here are a few attempts. Emily = charming Charlotte (a bit harder, but if we take it as derivative of carol) = song of joy Charming has almost unlimited possibilities in Sanskrit: (Feminine nouns usually have a long final vowel) manoharA manoramA subhagA mohini hArinI (All of which are used as girl's names) song of joy song = giti, gita (which are popular women's names) charming song could be achieved by just adding "su" to the beginning "sugitA, sugiti" Or you could combine some of these (especially if your daughter can sing) (These combos don't work for all the above words, for various reasons.) Gita-manohara Gita-mohini Now look at this site and try to find something that fits: http://www.salagram.net/1000Radha.html Gita (verse 129)