Pankaja_Dasa

For a bit with your hand, and watch how thr other eye twicthes.

I heard you can purchase the Original Books now. Some devotees have the Copyrights to Print Pre 77 Books Unedited. Long history I think. And I am not sure if anybody is printing Original Bhagavatam or CC. Vedabase has the Original Books. You can get it for 15 Dollers. A company called www.krishnabooks.org has them I think. I personally don't know a lot about it, but I know they print the Original Books. WHich entire world will benefit with. Who can know Krishna plans or why He allowed this, or maybe He didn't. Like I said who can know Krishna plans [didn't I just say that.]. Only Krishna knows. Hey I just said that.! Gauranga!

That the example Prabhupada is giving is of Jaya and Vijaya. There is some more quotes I paste here now, sorry about the marking they from PDF: Sorry to just click/paste, but you might not have seen these before.:: “The CONCLUSION is that no one falls from the spiritual world, or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode.” (Çrémad-Bhägavatam 3.16.26) “According to Viñëu Purana, Bhagavad-gétä and all other Vedic literatures, the living entities are generated from the taöasthä energy of the Lord, and thus they are always the energy of the Lord and are not the energetic.” (Çrémad Bhägavatam 3.7.9) “The mature devotees, who have completely executed Kåñëa consciousness, are immediately transferred to the universe where Kåñëa is appearing. In that universe the devotees get their FIRST opportunity to associate with Kåñëa personally and directly. The training goes on, as we see in våndävana-lélä.” (Kåñëa Book: Chapter Twenty-eight) “In further reference to your question about the form of the spirit soul of the conditioned living entity; there is a spiritual form always, but it develops fully ONLY when the living entity goes back to Vaikuntha. This form develops according to the desire of the living entity. Until this perfectional stage is reached, the form is lying dormant like the form of a tree is lying dormant in the seed.” (Letter to Rupanaga:1969) “From authoritative sources it can be discerned that associates of Lord Viñëu who descend from Vaikuntha do not actually fall. They come with the purpose of fulfilling the desire of the Lord, and their descent to this material world is comparable to that of the Lord. The Lord comes to this material world through the agency of His internal potency, and similarly, when a devotee or associate of the Lord descends to this material world, he does so through the action of the spiritual energy. Any pastime conducted by the Supreme Personality of Godhead is an arrangement by yogamayä, not mahämayä. Therefore it is to be understood that when Jaya and Vijaya descended to this material world, they came because there was something to be done for the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Otherwise it is a fact that NO ONE FALLS FROM VAIKUNTHA.” (Çrémad Bhägavatam 7.1.35) Mahäräja Yudhisthira inquired: “What kind of great curse could affect even liberated viñëu-bhaktas, and what sort of person could curse even the Lord’s associates? For unflinching devotees of the Lord to fall again to this material world is impossible. I cannot believe this.” (Çrémad Bhägavatam 7.1.34)

So when I say Yes, there is eternal lila with Krsna, that means on the evidence of Jaya-Vijaya -- Your not reading it right. Read it carefully. Take it ALL in. And chant 1 Maha-mantra before you do it as well. Dandavats

Crow and Tal-Fruit. Yes like a dream we were in Tataskta-shakti, we couldn't have very well been in Goloka dreaming.. NB: GBC doesn't represent all the Vaishnava's views in Iskcon.

The Fall of the Jiva It is well known that Srila Narayana Maharaja rejects the idea that the conditioned souls in this world were once with Krsna in the spiritual world, serving Him with love. This issue has been debated back and forth for years, and after exhaustive consideration of all the evidence, in 1995 the GBC resolved (#79-80): 1. Vaikuntha is that place from which no one ever falls down. The living entity belongs to Lord Krsna's marginal potency (tatastha-sakti). On this we all agree. The origin of the conditioned life of the souls now in this material world is undoubtedly beyond the range of our direct perception. We can therefore best answer questions about that origin by repeating the answers Srila Prabhupada gave when such questions were asked of him: "The original home of the living entity and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the spiritual world. In the spiritual world both the Lord and the living entities live together very peacefully. Since the living entity remains engaged in the service of the Lord, they both share a blissful life in the spiritual world. However, when the living entity, misusing his tiny independence, wants to enjoy himself, he falls down into the material world." (Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.28.54, purport) No ISKCON devotee shall present or publish any contrary view as conclusive in any class or seminar or any media (print, video, electronic, etc.). 80) The GBC suggests that devotees interested in apparent logical contradictions surrounding the "fall of the jiva" read the following paper on the topic, which Srila Prabhupada had sent to devotees in Australia in 1972 to resolve controversies that arose among them about this topic. The paper came as an attachment to a letter from Srila Prabhupada to Madhudvisa dasa dated June 6, 1972.: __ Crow And Tal-Fruit Logic Paper [excerpt] We never had any occasion when we were separated from Krsna. Just like one man is dreaming and he forgets himself. In dream he creates himself in different forms: now I am the King discussing like that. This creation of himself is as seer and subject matter or seen, two things. But as soon as the dream is over, the "seen" disappears. But the seer remains. Now he is in his original position. Our separation from Krsna is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things. First the attachment comes to enjoy sense gratification. Even with Krsna desire for sense gratification is there. There is a dormant attitude for forgetting Krsna and creating an atmosphere for enjoying independently. Just like at the edge of the beach, sometimes the water covers, sometimes there is dry sand, coming and going. Our position is like that, sometimes covered, sometimes free, just like at the edge of the tide. As soon as we forget, immediately the illusion is there. Just like as soon as we sleep, <font color="red"> dream </font color> is there. We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately we are covered by Maya. FORMERLY WE WERE WITH KRSNA IN HIS LILA OR SPORT. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration, therefore many creations are coming and going. Due to this long period of time it is sometimes said that we are ever-conditioned. But his long duration of time becomes very insignificant when one actually comes to Krsna consciousness. [end of GBC resolution excerpt] --- PANKaja: I guess that is the history of Jiva-falldown. But Prabhupada says in Bhagavatam: 'The conclusion is that no one falls from the spiritual world, or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode.' Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Srimad Bhagavatam 3.16.26. The above where it says 'FORMERLY WE WERE WITH KRSNA IN HIS LILA OR SPORT' Can be reffering to the Tatastha-shakti. I mean also Prabhupada said to refer to BR Sridhara Maharaja and He says we Never fell from Goloka. So there is the conclution, if you believe when Prabhupada said to goto Sridhara Maharaja, then you believe Him.

If you close your eyes you can still see with your 'minds eye' Your consciousness, even a blind person can see in his dreams.

I know that Srila Prabhupada said that the jiva fell from Goloka. __ If you read the following letter, the questions asked by the devotee and the answers given by Prabhupada are according to the devotional progress of that devotee. Letter to: Jagadisa, Los Angeles, 25 April, 1970: Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at any time, so there is always the chance of falling down by misuse of one's independence. But those who are firmly fixed up in devotional service to Krsna are making proper use of their independence and so they do not fall down. Regarding your second question, have the conditioned souls ever seen Krsna? Were they with the Lord before being conditioned by the desire to lord it over material nature? Yes, the conditioned souls are parts and parcels of the Lord and thus they were with Krsna before being conditioned. Just as the child must have seen his father because the father places the child in the womb of the mother, similarly each soul has seen Krsna or the Supreme Father. But at that time the conditioned souls are resting in the condition called susupti which is exactly deep sleep without dream, or anesthetized state, therefore they do not remember being with Krsna when they wake up in the material world and become engaged in material affairs. I hope this will satisfy your questions. Your ever well-wisher, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami __ Then read above Bhagavatam quote where it says 'The conclusion is that no one falls from the spiritual world, or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode.' Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Srimad Bhagavatam 3.16.26. You cannot really argue with the above statement. CONCLUTION. Gaura hari

Is there any relics from India which date back to 5000 Years or 3000Bc. ? I would be interested to know. Lost and Found - this- Lord Çré Kåñëa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, appeared at Våndävana about five thousand years ago, and the relics of His appearance at Våndävana were lost from view. But Lord Çré Caitanya Mahäprabhu, who is the very same Lord Çré Kåñëa in the form of a great devotee, appeared at Navadvépa, a district in West Bengal, and excavated the holy places of Lord Çré Kåñëa’s transcendental pastimes. He instructed the above-mentioned six Gosvämés to compose authorized literature on the cult of Våndävana, and any serious student anxious to know about the Supreme Lord may take advantage of this invaluable literature and the guidance of authorized scholars and thus know about the Lord of Våndävana, Çré Kåñëa, the Personality of Godhead. Light of the Bhagavata. __ I was wondering what to tell a Scienitst if he ever asks, is there any evidence. Seems there is by Gauranga Mahaprabhu grace. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Click this file

I will let you know. Hare Krishna. I suspect you have never been to Birmingham UK. You may need to be severe.! [That is joke, I am sure He is very quafied, since NM said this Uk Matha is the most important of all in Uk].

What's the point of doing so much Sadhana for millions of Births if in the end we can fall-down from Goloka! Your pupose is defeated even before you start.! I remember a devotee in Iskcon told me this, at the time I accepted it. I thought within myself, when I get to Goloka I better be careful what I do in case Krishna kicks me out. [That sort of destroys the fun of going to Goloka in the first place!]

When I heard it I was sort of shocked. The truthfullness in it is amazing. No holds barred, everything laid on the table. Almost like Vaishnava's Uncut. Just seems like a big misunderstanding. The Angel that speaks [syamarani dasi] is my fav part. In the end it all works out.

No one understand Vedanta-sutra that is why Vyasa-deva compiled Bhagavatam. That Bhagavata refutation is explained by Prabhupada in the Caitanya Charitamrta. www.vedabase.net Chaitanya Charitamrta Adi-lila 5.4. This is my favourite quote from above: The devotees accept all these expansions to be one, but why should they restrict oneness to these quadruple expansions? Certainly we should not do so, for all living entities, from Brahmä to the insignificant ant, are expansions of Väsudeva, as accepted in all the çrutis and småtis.

To Babhu Prabhu: Sorry it was Sripad BV Ashram Maharaja I wanted to mention, should have checked what I was talking about. site Narayana Maharaja: The Math in Birmingham will be under the competent and suitable direction of Sripad BV Ashram Maharaja [Jan 2006 Newletter] Ghari Do you know if one of the devotees in that Tape is now serving Narayana Maharaja.? I am sure I heard his voice in Jaiva-dharma lectures.

"Full Anxiety is not O.K." Los Angeles, July 25, 1975 www.prabhupadavani.org Radha-vallabha: ...are very worried. They say the earth has a certain tilt, and every few million years the tilt is changing little, little, and by this changing eventually the ice on the North and South Poles will melt , they say. So they are very afraid because then their estimate is that the entire earth will be covered with water. Prabhupada: Why he is..? Why he is afraid? Radha-vallabha: Well, they are afraid for future humanity. They will all be killed. Prabhupada: He is not careful about himself. He is thinking... He cannot take care of himself, he is thinking of others. Radha-vallabha: They this is a humanitarian attitude, to worry about the future. Prabhupada: So to protect yourself is not humanitarian? You are "dogtarian"? You cannot protect yourself and thinking about humanity. You are also human being. Why don't you take care of you first of all? __ Simple but straight forward advice. Cannot really compete /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

<font color="red">Letter to: Jagadisa, Los Angeles, 25 April, 1970:</font color> Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at any time, so there is always the chance of falling down by misuse of one's independence. But those who are firmly fixed up in devotional service to Krsna are making proper use of their independence and so they do not fall down. Regarding your second question, have the conditioned souls ever seen Krsna? Were they with the Lord before being conditioned by the desire to lord it over material nature? Yes, the conditioned souls are parts and parcels of the Lord and thus they were with Krsna before being conditioned. Just as the child must have seen his father because the father places the child in the womb of the mother, similarly each soul has seen Krsna or the Supreme Father. But at that time the conditioned souls are resting in the condition called susupti which is exactly deep sleep without dream, or anesthetized state, therefore they do not remember being with Krsna when they wake up in the material world and become engaged in material affairs. I hope this will satisfy your questions. Your ever well-wisher, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami <font color="red"> Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Srimad Bhagavatam 3.16.26</font color> PURPORT: The Lord stated that the punishment inflicted by the sages upon the doorkeepers Jaya and Vijaya was conceived by the Lord Himself. Without the Lord's sanction, nothing can happen. It is to be understood that there was a plan in the cursing of the Lord's devotees in Vaikuntha, and His plan is explained by many stalwart authorities. The Lord sometimes desires to fight. The fighting spirit also exists in the Supreme Lord, otherwise how could fighting be manifested at all? Because the Lord is the source of everything, anger and fighting are also inherent in His personality. When He desires to fight with someone, He has to find an enemy, but in the Vaikuntha world there is no enemy because everyone is engaged fully in His service. Therefore He sometimes comes to the material world as an incarnation in order to manifest His fighting spirit. In Bhagavad-gita (4.8) also it is said that the Lord appears just to give protection to the devotees and to annihilate the nondevotees. The nondevotees are found in the material world, not in the spiritual world; therefore, when the Lord wants to fight, He has to come to this world. But who will fight with the Supreme Lord? No one is able to fight with Him! Therefore, because the Lord's pastimes in the material world are always performed with His associates, not with others, He has to find some devotee who will play the part of an enemy. In Bhagavad-gita the Lord says to Arjuna, "My dear Arjuna, both you and I have appeared many, many times in this material world, but you have forgotten, whereas I remember." Thus Jaya and Vijaya were selected by the Lord to fight with Him in the material world, and that was the reason the sages came to see Him and accidentally the doorkeepers were cursed. It was the Lord's desire to send them to the material world, not perpetually, but for some time. Therefore, just as on a theatrical stage someone takes the part of enemy to the proprietor of the stage, although the play is for a short time and there is no permanent enmity between the servant and the proprietor, so the sura janas (devotees) were cursed by the sages to go to the asura jana, or atheistic families. That a devotee should come into an atheistic family is surprising, but it is simply a show. After finishing their mock fighting, both the devotee and the Lord are again associated in the spiritual planets. That is very explicitly explained here. The conclusion is that no one falls from the spiritual world, or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode. But sometimes, as the Lord desires, devotees come into this material world as preachers or as atheists. In each case we must understand that there is a plan of the Lord. Lord Buddha, for example, was an incarnation, yet he preached atheism: "There is no God." But actually there was a plan behind this, as explained in the Bhagavatam. ____ Now this is where it took place /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Maharaja is in Uk [birmingham].! He is Temple President [i think that is what the position is called]. Hope to meet soon. In future.

Vaishnava Reminder www.vreminder.gauranga.in/tour.html Find it amazing, the devotee that did it says on the site how he made it. Even calculates your location automatically, has installation. You don't need to do a thing, truly amazing.

From the devotees Homepage: Welcome to the homesite of Vaisnava Reminder project - the software aimed to be personal information assistant of anyone in Krishna's devotee community. Though I tried to make it as simple as possible, it gives you a lot of power to store and manage your records of to-do tasks, events and diary. The software has built-in generator of vaisnava calendar and panchang, so you can get events for your own place of living in less than a minute, and if you travel you can easily regenerate it for another place. It quietly sits in the system tray and alerts you when needed. Have you ever missed Ekadasi due to poor memory? Now it won't be so easy to forget it with fasting alerts. And it is 100% free - no limitation on using and sharing or registration required as long as you agree to the terms specified in license. If you like the software and wish to support it's further development please visit donation page. If you can't - just drop me a letter with your blessings. It also helps. So please enjoy the program and use the saved time for your favorite reading, chanting and association with other devotees. www.vreminder.gauranga.in/tour.html

A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami [Vedabase]: The Rakhi Bandhan ceremony observed by you under instruction of Prasad isn't approved by our Vaisnava rituals. Of course, such ceremony is observed among the Hindu community as a socio-religious convention. But in our Vaisnava community there is no such observance. Letter to: Mukunda, San Francisco, 26 March, 1968 ____________ LORD BALADEVA'S APPEARANCE DAY (Vrndavana, India, August 15, 2000) www.purebhakti.com Today is also Raksa-bandhana. We bind rakhi (a very fancy cloth bracelet) to Krsna. Earlier, this festival was practiced differently from today. We bind rakhi to Krsna, or to Balarama, so that they will protect us. They are our real protectors. Anantadeva is our real protector. This was the purpose of this festival. During the reign of one Muhammedan leader, the Muhammedans were inflicting so much atrocity on the Indian women. Many Indian women accepted powerful kings as their protectors. They sent their rakhi to them and said, "Please bind this rakhi and protect us." Since that time this festival has taken place: that a sister will bind a rakhi around the wrist of a brother who will protect her. The protector, however, is not, in fact, a brother. The protector is actually Balarama. We can also take Gurudeva as our protector from unwanted activities and mentalities, aparadhas etc.

Gurudeva Vyada-puja is on 19th January 2006 so offer that to Him. Must be costing so much. Thankyou, for providing. Jaya Prabhupada, Jaya BV Puri Maharaja! I will send a link to Jagadish Prabhu at www.srilapurimaharaja.org Gaura hari!

Dandavats, AGTSP! I have been going to www.bvml.org so I thought you wanted those lectures, now you have them.! And so does the entire Vaishnava Community. We will all be blessed by your service. Thankyou to Jagadish Prabhu for giving them to me. Then I gave to you, you give to the world. Credit is to you. Check out the Music on my downloadpage: DlPage Birth and Death. Transmigration of the soul. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Sridhara Maharaja He says it is difficult point. And he says 'it is show of coming'- [Audio Lecture]. SB 3.16.27 PURPORT The Lord stated that the punishment inflicted by the sages upon the doorkeepers Jaya and Vijaya was conceived by the Lord Himself. Without the Lord's sanction, nothing can happen. It is to be understood that there was a plan in the cursing of the Lord's devotees in Vaikuëöha, and His plan is explained by many stalwart authorities. The Lord sometimes desires to fight. The fighting spirit also exists in the Supreme Lord, otherwise how could fighting be manifested at all? Because the Lord is the source of everything, anger and fighting are also inherent in His personality. When He desires to fight with someone, He has to find an enemy, but in the Vaikuëöha world there is no enemy because everyone is engaged fully in His service. Therefore He sometimes comes to the material world as an incarnation in order to manifest His fighting spirit. In Bhagavad-gétä (4.8) also it is said that the Lord appears just to give protection to the devotees and to annihilate the nondevotees. The nondevotees are found in the material world, not in the spiritual world; therefore, when the Lord wants to fight, He has to come to this world. But who will fight with the Supreme Lord? No one is able to fight with Him! Therefore, because the Lord's pastimes in the material world are always performed with His associates, not with others, He has to find some devotee who will play the part of an enemy. In Bhagavad-gétä the Lord says to Arjuna, "My dear Arjuna, both you and I have appeared many, many times in this material world, but you have forgotten, whereas I remember." Thus Jaya and Vijaya were selected by the Lord to fight with Him in the material world, and that was the reason the sages came to see Him and accidentally the doorkeepers were cursed. It was the Lord's desire to send them to the material world, not perpetually, but for some time. Therefore, just as on a theatrical stage someone takes the part of enemy to the proprietor of the stage, although the play is for a short time and there is no permanent enmity between the servant and the proprietor, so the sura janas (devotees) were cursed by the sages to go to the asura jana, or atheistic families. That a devotee should come into an atheistic family is surprising, but it is simply a show. After finishing their mock fighting, both the devotee and the Lord are again associated in the spiritual planets. That is very explicitly explained here. The conclusion is that no one falls from the spiritual world, or Vaikuëöha planet, for it is the eternal abode. But sometimes, as the Lord desires, devotees come into this material world as preachers or as atheists. In each case we must understand that there is a plan of the Lord. Lord Buddha, for example, was an incarnation, yet he preached atheism: "There is no God." But actually there was a plan behind this, as explained in the Bhägavatam. __

From devotee: Sadashiva is non other than Gopisvara Mahadeva and is always engaged in serving the pastimes of Sri Sri Radha and Krsna in Vraja. [That sada-shiva is reffering to Vishnu-tattva]. I need to find out if Gopisvara is Vishnu-tattva. I post later.