Kali_Upasaka

There is a misunderstanding here. A Detached person does not cease to Love his family or children. He loves them. And also he is aware of his duties and responsibilities to his family. His love is not the selfish love of the attached person. It is love without any expectations. This selfless love does not turn to hatred. Nor does it arouse jealousy. Normal Love has these drawbacks. Again most parents have their favourites. The father loves one son/daughter more than other children. Parents are seldom impartial while dealing with their children. Detachment gives you the capacity to act impartially. Love all the children equally and treat them accordingly. There is nothing unnatural about this.

A detached person does not stand idle when a human being or for that matter any living thing (including trees and plants) suffer. He will do his utmost to see that the suffering is alleviated. The father who is terribly attached to the child would be in many cases become so unhappy that he may not even think of the best ways of relieving the child of its pain. He is overtaken by emotion. Have we not seen people who are so overcome by the love for the dear ones that they do not even know what to do? A detached person will think of the best possible way of alleviating the pain of the child and act accordingly. Being detached does not mean that he does not love his child. As I explained in the other thread a detached person does not become a jadam or an unfeeling person. Neither is he lazy or inactive. In fact he acts more efficiently than the attached person who allows himself to be carried away by emotion/attachment. I will post about the second part separately.

I only wish it were true. In India today it is a fashion to wear a Rudraksha. You find hate spewing politicians, movie stars and the like wearing and showing off their Ek-mukhi Rudraksha. The only short cut is Divine Grace. But there also we only read about instances of people suddenly renouncing the world. What we are talking about is a gradual process.

Sanskrit Version Rig Veda Book 10 Hymn 125 अहं रुद्रेभिर्वसुभिश्चराम्यहमादित्यैरुतविश्वदेवैः | अहं मित्रावरुणोभा बिभर्म्यहमिन्द्राग्नीहमश्विनोभा || अहं सोममाहनसं बिभर्म्यहं तवष्टारमुतपूषणं भगम | अहं दधामि दरविणं हविष्मतेसुप्राव्ये यजमानाय सुन्वते || अहं राष्ट्री संगमनी वसूनां चिकितुषी परथमायज्ञियानाम | तां मा देवा वयदधुः पुरुत्राभूरिस्थात्रां भूर्यावेशयन्तीम || मया सो अन्नमत्ति यो विपश्यति यः पराणिति य ईंश्र्णोत्युक्तम | अमन्तवो मां त उप कषियन्ति शरुधिश्रुत शरद्धिवं ते वदामि || अहमेव सवयमिदं वदामि जुष्टं देवेभिरुतमानुषेभिः | यं कामये तं-तमुग्रं कर्णोमि तम्ब्रह्माणं तं रषिं तं सुमेधाम || अहं रुद्राय धनुरा तनोमि बरह्मद्विषे शरवे हन्तवाु | अहं जनाय समदं कर्णोम्यहं दयावाप्र्थिवी आविवेश || अहं सुवे पितरमस्य मूर्धन मम योनिरप्स्वन्तः समुद्रे | ततो वि तिष्ठे भुवनानु विश्वोतामूं दयांवर्ष्मणोप सप्र्शामि || अहमेव वात इव पर वाम्यारभमाणा भुवनानि विश्वा | परो दिवा पर एना पर्थिव्यैतावती महिना सं बभूव || http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rvsan/rv10125.htm

Sadhana is a Sanskrit word meaning 1. Accomplishment, fulfillment, completion 2. Worship, adoration 3. Conciliation, propitiation Sanskrit-English dictionary by V.S. Apte. Sadhana Panchakam of Adi Sankara is older than the Hindi language.

Devi sukta is a popular hymn from the Rig Veda 10.8.125. It contains 8 riks. The Mantra Drashta of the Devi Suktam is Vaak the daughter of Rishi Ambhrina. And hence, it is also called "Ambhrina Sukta" or "Vak Sukta". This great mantra “Devi Suktam” sprang forth from the deep chasms of the her (the Rishika Vaak) heart which is Atma-Stuti when she was in communion with her Chit / I-ness / Aham Sphurana in the her Hridaya Guha Rupa Dahara Akasa. I am giving below the literal meaning. But the esoteric meaning and interpretations are different. Aham Rudrebhir vasubhir charami, Aham aadhithyer uta vaisvadevaii, Aham mithra varunobha bibharmi, Aham indragni, aham ashvinobha. I move with Rudras and Vasus, I walk with the Sun and other Gods, I esteem mithra, varuna And Indra, fire and the Aswini devas. Aham somam ahaanasam bhibhrami Aham thwashtaaramr utha pooshanam bhagam, Aham dadhami dravinam havishmathe, Supravye yajamanya sunwathe. I esteem Soma, which is extracted, I support thwastri, pushan and bhaga, I give wealth to those who perform yagna, Who reach the gods with offerings. Aham rashtri samgamani vasoonaam, Chikithushee pradhamaa yagniyaanaam, Thaam maa devaa vyadhaduha puruthra, Bhuristhathram bhooyar visayanthim. I am the one who gives wealth to the nation, I am the first one to whom this sacrifice is addressed, The gods have found my manifoldness, And enter in to it and take possession of the manifoldness. Mayaa so annamathi yo vipasyathi,Ya pranithi y aim shrunothi yuktham, amaanathvo maam tha upa kshiyanthi, Shrudhi shruthi shraddivam they vadami I am the power which makes one eat the food, to see, to breath, And to hear what I am saying, They who do not believe me perish, And I am telling you the truth, hear with attention. Aham yeva swayam idham vadhami, Jushtam devebhir utha manushebhi, Yam kaamaye tham tham ugram krunomi, Tham brahmanam tham rishim tham sumedham, I am myself telling this, Which man and gods should try to understand, The one whom I love, I make him mighty, I Make him Brahman, I make him the sage, and I make him wise. Aham rudhraya dhanura thanomi, Brahmadwishe sharave hanthava vu, Aham janaaya samadham krunomi, Aham dhyayaprithwi aa vivesha. I stretch the bow to Rudra, So that he who hates Brahmam is hurt by the arrow, I bestow equality on people at war, I am throughout the heaven and earth. Aham suvepitharamasya moordhan, Mama yonir apswatha samudhre, Thatho vi thishte bhuvananu vishwotha, Amum dhyam varshamanopam vishva utha. I brought about the progenitor in to earth, I sprang from the water of the ocean, And from there I spread throughout the universe, I touch that heaven with a flowering body. Ahameva vatham yiva vatha yiva pravami, Arambhamana bhuvanani viswam, Paro dhiva para yena prithwya, Yaithavathi mahinaa sam bhabhoova. I blow like the fierce winds, Which commences from the universe, Which extends far beyond heaven and far below the earth, And I have become very gross because of this.

I had clearly said at the beginning that We are talking here about Nishkamya Karma and Sarangatha Bhakthi as the paths for spiritual progress. The four asramas mentioned in the scriptures are 1. Brahmacharya 2. Grahastha 3. Vanaprastha 4. Sannyasa. In this Sannyasa became a model only after 800 A.D. Most of the Vedic rishis like Vashishta, Gautama, Yagnavalkya were not Sannyasis. Some renunciate Rishis are also mentioned in the Vedas. Most of the Acharyas of Hinduism in the last 1200 years have been sannyasis. So more emphasis was laid on Sannyasa. The prime duty of a Guru is to teach/show the path by which he has realised/reached GOD. So the sannyasi Gurus stressed the Sannyasa path which they had taken. Bhagavad Gita does not glorify Sannyasa. The main paths are Nishkamya Karma and Saranagatha Bhakthi. As I mentioned in the other thread the idea is to reach a state of Sahaja. http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/spiritual-discussions/453697-materialisitic-vs-religious-people-2.html#post1144692 Post#32 kaiser rose, there is no renunciation in the path of Nishkamya Karma and Saranagatha Bhakthi. No renunciation is called for in grahasthashrama. Renunciation is part of vanaprastha. But here we are talking basically about grahastha. Celibacy is not part of the path to Sahaja. The attainment of Sahaja is considered supreme even by some sampradhyas where the rule is "Do as you please. Anything goes."

Many Wikipedia articles especially relating to Hinduism represent the point of view of the individual who wrote the article and are factually wrong.

Sadhana is a Sanskrit term used very frequently in Tantric literature. The Wikipedia article is wrong. This article represents the Point of View of an individual. Please see the talk page. The author of this article does not consider any Tantric Sadhana at all. The Tantras do not exist according to this article. I will post the entomology of the word and its occurrence in Tantrik and other scriptures tomorrow after verification. This term is used so often in spiritual quest In Hinduism that we take it for granted.

Total Surrender and detachment combined would take us on our way to spirituality. In the thread on materialism and Spiritulism we saw about Saranagatham. This link is to an article on understanding our attachments and practice of non-attachment. http://www.hinduwebsite.com/divinelife/essays/attachment.asp A fairly good article. But there is a major flaw in the argument. Renunciation is not Detachment. There is a lot of confusion between the two. Renunciation is advocated in certain Hindu traditions. But it is not for all. As I mentioned in the thread about materialism Vs spiritualism, detachment and not renunciation is the easiest way to progress spiritually and ideal for a Grahastha. It is a combination of Karma and Bhakthi Yogas. We should be like a mud fish who stays in the mud all the time, without the mud-sticking to it. Renunciation would be like asking the mud-fish to get out of the mud. We are all like the mud-fish. 1. The author says that I should let go of my attachment to money by donating it and doing voluntary work. Good idea. But I am being paid for rendering certain services for which I have qualified myself by studying well. I am being paid for my knowledge. I do not exploit any one. I may doing a service to the society by producing goods/rendering services. So my money is not tainted. 2. As a Grahastha I have a duty towards my family. Wife and children. May be some left over duty towards my parents. 3. In fulfilling these duties money plays a big role. How do I provide good eduction to my children if I do not have money? I can give up the luxuries of life. But is it correct to expect my wife also to do it? So as long as I have duties to my family, I have to earn money. Earn as much as I can. 4. Even after leaving the Grahastha stage and entering Vana Prastha stage, you need money. You can not go to forest and live in these modern times. India has very limited forests and too many people. In U.S I will be arrested if I go and live in a forest. So you relocate to some place which is like a jungle. But relocation also costs money. No one is going to feed you. You need money for meeting your daily needs. Even spiritual exploration costs money. There is a 6 day spiritual camp which I would like to attend. It costs $1200 per person. A lot of money in Indian rupee terms. Rs.60000. What do you think? Your thoughts. Let us not quote the scriptures or Acharyas. There is an Acharya who teaches the path of the Yoga. In his book he advocates getting up at Brahma Muhurtha (3 hours before dawn) and doing five hours of Meditation. When I asked one of his disciples about how practical this advice is, he replied "That is possible only when you become a Sannyasi and live in an Ashram". So scriptures written centuries back and books by sannyasis may not help us much. They show us the way. Bhagavad Gita shows the way. But the nitty-gritty part of it is left to us. The Gurus/Acharyas show the correct path. But since the environment under which we live is not the same for all of us, the details have to be worked out only by us. No one can write a book on " How do a software professional working in Florida, U.S progress towards spirituality". You get the drift.

As matter of intellectual curiosity to find the answer to the question who wrote the Bhagavad Gita, please read the Chandogya upanishad. This is one of the "primary" (mukhya) Upanishads. Together with the Jaiminiya Upanishad Brahmana and the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad it ranks among the oldest Upanishads. http://www.hinduwebsite.com/sacredscripts/hinduism/upanishads/chandogya.asp Here it clearly states that Ghora Angirasa taught Krishna Devakiputra the principles enunciated therein. There is a lot in common between Chandogya Upanishad and Bhagavad Gita. Bhagavad Gita goes much further. This clearly establishes the authorship of the Bhagavad Gita by Krishna. It is in the Adyatmic Krita form which I mentioned in my earlier post. Again as I said only an intellectual discussion. You may also read the story of Paundraka Vasudeva in Mahabharata. Source: Vaishnavism: Vasudeva-Krishna and Bhagavatism - A religious history of ancient India Volume II by S.R. Goyal. ( a prescribed text book)

Vyasa means a compiler. The Vedas, Mahabharata, Bhagavd Gita and other scriptures were compiled by Vyasas centuries (may be even thousands of years) after they were composed. So we can not attribute these to a single author. I do not think any Hindu doubts that these were Krishna's words. This is the common belief of all the Hindus. In the Vedas there are three categories of mantras. Paroksha Krita - Object of praise referred to in an indirect way - Third person. Prathyaksha Krita - Object of praise referred to in a direct way -Second person. Adyatmic Krita - When the Upasak identifies himself with the object of praise. - The Vak Sukta ( Devi Sukta) by Vak Ambirini in Rig Veda belongs to this category. Bhagavad Gita also belongs to this category.

The popular Durga Puja in Bengal is Pauranic and not Tantric. Kali Puja on Deepavali night is generally Tantrik. Tantra is much more ritualistic than Vedic practices. The daily Puja of the Vaidic Brahmin is a very simple one. Another important factor is that the Vedic Puja rituals are available freely on the net and in books. Tantric rituals change not only from region to region to region, but also from sampradhaya to sampradhaya. And we are not talking about Homa here. Tantrik rituals have to be learnt from a proper Guru. My advice here is as a layman. May be a teacher. I am neither an Acharya nor a Guru as far this forum is concerned. I am sure Vigneswara will send a proper guru to Ahara Vimaladvaita as and when he reaches that stage in his Upasana.

Sorry. I should have explained. The Tantrik forms have different Mantras associated with them. Normally you choose a form and then find the Mantra for that form. But these are done only for specific Siddhis. Since Ahara Vimaladvaita has already chosen a Mantra and the worship is pure devotion it is better to stick to the Vaidic form. Pujas are of three kinds 1. Vaidic 2. Tantric 3. Pouranic The Vaidic Puja is simpler and easier to follow.

Please take the Mahaganapathi form. Stick to the Vaidic form rather than the Tantrik one. The invocation

Whenever we talk about detachment and the relationship between materialism and Spirituality, people have a tendency to quote from the lives of Saints like Chaitanya Maha Prabhu and Sri Ramakrishna. This is not correct. Hinduism believes that a soul will have countless rebirths before it attains the feet of GOD. Then there is no rebirth. The progress is made during these countless births towards this ultimate goal. When a child is born we do not know at what stage the child is. If it is very near the ultimate stage and if this the ultimate birth for the soul, the child starts starts exhibiting advanced spiritual traits right from birth. Saints like Chaitanya Maha Prabhu and Sri Ramakrishna had reached this ultimate stage. But Most of us have not reached this stage. If you have you would not be reading this post in this forum. We are only beginning a very long journey. But we would like to make maximum progress in this birth. But you can not compare the behavior of a person who has reached the ultimate birth and one who is just beginning the journey. It would be like comparing a Marathon runner with a budding 100 meter runner in a high school team. The lives of the saints teaches us ideals to which we should strive. But then we have to realize our limitations. Let us learn to walk before we start running. I would call my posts Spirituality for Dummies or the Complete Idiot's Book on Spirituality.

One of the beliefs of Bhakthas is that Krishna/Kali will come to their resque whwenever they call. The story always quoted is Gajendra Moksha and Drowpathi Vastraapaharana. This belief was inculcated into us from childhood. This is one of the bonuses of being a Bhaktha. GOD is at your beck and call. No it is more than that. He is watching over you. The universal protector. How he does it is upto him. A personal anecdote. Once I was travelling by bus in Maharashtra in India. It was the monsoon season and raining heavily. When the bus was approaching a bridge over the Krishna river, the tyres skid and the bus almost rolled down down to the swollen river running in a deep gorge below. But it did not happen. In India they place some oil drums filled with sand on both sides of the approach to any bridge. The front axle of the bus got caught in one of the sand filled drums and the bus was hanging in balance. All the passengers got down safely. I remember even after 40 years the words of the bus driver. He said " You people should take the sand filled oil drum and worship it. That is what has saved you from death." So GOD came in the form of a sand filled oil drum to save us. Having wandered all over the world far from family and friends, I have been constantly reminded of GOD's grace. Whenever and wherever I needed help GOD send someone. Or may be he came himself to help me.

Before we proceed further let us see who is the target audience for this discussion. The market segment to use a technical term. It is a Grahastha ( or a would be grahastha) who wants to do his duty towards his parents, family and others. He wants to proceed on the spiritual path also. That is why I said that a combination of Nishkamya Karma and Saranagatha Bhakthi is ideal. I will elaborate later on this. Continuing with Saranagathi a Saktha concept illustrates this very well. Imagine yourself to be a six month old baby and GOD the Mother. The Baby is totally dependent on the Mother who takes care of all its needs. The child does not know or care whether its Mother is ugly or Beautiful, Rich or Poor. Ramprasad goes further when he says "Maago, treat me like a premature baby." I have given the above example not for promoting Sakthism. But to emphasize Saranagathi. Krishna or Kali are the same as far as I am concerned. I have posted about that also. Now one of the questions often unasked ( Things about Spirituality which you always wanted to know but were afraid to ask). 1. Leaving alone the benefits after my death, what do I get during this lifetime. 2. Do I get happiness? 3. DO I get freed from sorrows? 4. Do I get mental peace? 5. Anything else? Once a person takes birth as a human being, he is bound by the rules which lay down that human beings go through happiness and sorrow. Even avataras like Rama and Krishna were not exempt from this. So eternal happiness and freedom from sorrow can not guaranteed as long as one retains the human form. Contentment is a word we often use. But i am reluctant to use it. Some people say Indians are contented. But the fact is that they are resigned to their fate. Saying " Oh This is may fate. What can I do? " does not indicate contentment. I would not like to promote the idea of spirituality with the offer of contentment alone. Mental Peace: Yes. We have the USP ( Unique selling proposition) here. For spirituality can deliver which Materialism can not is Peace of Mind. More about this later. Now what sort of person does a Spiritually advanced person become? If he has Peace of Mind and is not affected by sorrow and other emotions, does he become a Jadam? Jadam -- foolish; jaḍam — without intelligence; jaḍam — although as good as stone; jaḍam — stunned; jaḍam — devoid of endeavor; jaḍam — inert; No. What we are aiming at and promise to deliver is the state of Sahaja.

Beliefs and rituals have neither regional nor language boundaries. It is like saying that you have to know Latin or English to follow Christianity. Learn about Hinduism and its ideas. If you like them go ahead. You will be joining millions of people from the West who have done it. Hear it from people who have converted to Hinduism and lived happily thereafter. http://www.peopleforever.org/nfhomepage.aspx?nfid=1049 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satguru_Sivaya_Subramuniyaswami But then beware? We have an old Indian story of five blind men trying to describe an elephant. http://www.robinwood.com/LivingtreeGrove/Stories/StoryPages/Elephant.html So no web site, no book can give you the basis of entire Hinduism as a whole. Lot of material is available on the net. Read the material from different Philosophies. But neither knowledge of Sanskrit/Hindi nor any ritual is necessary to become a Hindu.

I understand. That is why I said that you should take Pranayama classes. Till you can hold the breath (It is possible. I tried it now) leave the Pranayama part. It will come with practice of Pranayama. Concentrate on the Mantra now.

1:4:2 refers to Pranayama. One mantra on Inhalation, Four Mantras during retention and Two during exhalation. I thought you were familiar with Pranayama. You can get a fundamental Pranayama class from one of the Yogic teachers in Slovenia. One single visit should do. Slovenia seems to have an acute shortage of Yoga teachers. I could locate only one. http://www.suryasakti.org/pricelist.html The Sound meditation is taught by the Transcendental Meditation people. They have a center in Slovenia. T.M is done with a single Mantra. Otherwise the technique is the same. A course in T. M would be beneficial. Japa precedes Meditation. Japa is done loud or silent etc. The idea is that you take a vow to do so many rounds of Japa of the Mantra every day. One round is 108 done with Japa Mala. After finishing the Japa you proceed to Meditation. Here there is no count of Mantras. Japa is done with Pranayama.

The most basic emotion of any human being is FEAR. Bhatruhari has also classified it in his Vairagya sathakam. Now how do we go about conquering these fears? It is by conditioning the mind. The soldiers are taught to face death every day. Their training make them lose the fear of death. Not complete but almost. Hinduism uses the word detachment for this conditioning. Jnana Yoga - Advocates renunciation. Unfortunately this path is not suitable for most of us in the modern times. Instead of developing Vairagya one might end up developing Virakthi. Karma Yoga _ Nishkamya Karma is basically detachment. You do your Karma without anticipating the results of your Karma because you are not attached to it. Bhakthi Yoga - It is here that we see the perfect solution to the problem. Surrender to GOD. Saranagathi is an easy concept to understand, but a difficult one to practice. When something bad happens in our life, are we able to accept it as Divine Will? Are we able to say that everything happens for the Good? A couple of examples how apparently good things could end up by wrecking our lives. You want a jump in your career. So you pray to GOD for that. But here you are thinking that you know what is good for you. You get the promotion. But it involves relocating to a far off place and you are forced by circumstances to leave your family behind. And then you start facing many problems in your new location. You start wondering whether the jump in the career was all that good for you. Happens to many people. A colleague of mine was working in a particular city far from his home town where his family was staying. He approached me for a transfer. Since this involved creating a new position just to accommodate him, the earlier incumbents were not willing. I created the position and posted him to his home town. Unfortunately he met with an accident and died a couple of months later. When I conveyed this news to my Boss he said "You are responsible for his death. Had you not posted him to his home town, he would not have died. I also share the responsibility because I endorsed your action." Saranagatha means leaving GOD to decide what is good and bad for you. Prayer without asking for anything. In Hindu pujas we have a sankalpam ( an undertaking). Here we ask for something. But the highest form of prayer is when you have no sankalpa. Nissankalpa. Many of the Sanskrit prayers have at least a cuple of stanzas called Phalasthudi where the benefit of the prayer is give. I had asked my Guru whether I can give up reciting the Phalasthudi because I did not want any of the material benefits. You pray only for GOD's blessings. Nothing else. Even asking for Mukthi, Swarga or even an opportunity to serve him is ultimately selfish. Let GOD decide. matsamah pataki nasti papaghni tvatsama na hi evam jnatva mahadevi yatha-yogyam tatha kuru O, Mahadevi, Great Goddess, there is no sinner like me on the earth and there is no other person condoning the sins except you. Knowing all this, you do whatever you think is reasonable. (Give me what I deserve.)

The answer is NO. NO. No. Definitely not. Hinduism is not a proselytizing religion. So we never had any system for conversion. But that does not mean there is a ban on conversion as some people interpret. This interpretation is wrong. From a Hindu born a Vaidic Hindu Brahmin.

I can understand your problem. These articles may help you. http://www.vedanet.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=1&id=33&Itemid=2 This is the site of the American Institute of Vedic studies founded by Dr. David Frawley (Pandit Vamadeva Shastri). He is a well known Vedic scholar widely respected in India. He has written a number of books on Vedas. Please try with amazon.com.

I feel you are talking about three types of meditation here. 1. Mantra/Sound Meditation. 2. Form Meditation. 3. Kundalini Meditation. From my experience I have found that the sound meditation is the best when you meditate on a Mantra. The Mantra becomes the Deity. The sound of the Mantra reverberates throughout you. Meditation on Image can be combined with this. But when you are overwhelmed by the mantra it is difficult to concentrate on the form. I would leave the Chakras alone. Your Kundalini will automatically arise as you progress in your Upasana. This is a natural process with little side effects. Japa can be combined with Pranayama. 1:4:2