Kali_Upasaka

Please do understand that all the works attributed to Sankaracharya are not by Adi Sankara the proponent of Advaita. His followers attribute everything under the sun to him. But many of the works were authored by different Sankaracharyas who were head of the four Sankara Matams. In addition there were independent Sannyasis with the name Sankaracharya. Right now there are more than 50 Sankaracharyas in India. This is only for the information of the members.

How come no one thought Bhanumathi the wife of Duryodana who was a devotee of Krishna. Krishna promised her that he would make Duryodhana, the Yuva Raja. He kept the promise.

This thread is about one principle. Sectarian Vs non-sectarian Hinduism. There was no reply to my posting on Purva Mimansa. Paramahamsa Yogananda is accused of neo Hinduism. His works are based on Yoga which is an old philosophy. Hatha Yoga and Raja Yoga. So in this discussion Purva Mimansa and Yoga are not accepted as classical Hinduism. Except for using the term Veda often there is hardly any quotes from the Vedas. The sectarian Hinduism owes its origin mainly to the Agamas/Tantras. Agamic Vaishnavism and Agamic Saivism even claim to be older than the Vedas. There are many scholars who have gone to the extent of saying that Agamas are anti-Vedic. The same accusation is made about Tantras also. Idol worship, temples and other connected rituals came from the Agamas/Tantras and not the Vedas. I would request any member to quote from the Vedas to prove the image worship existed in the Vedic times. Please do not quote the name of the Vedas to justify practices which did not exist in the Vedic times. Non sectarian Hinduism has a very old origin. A sculpture of Harihara dating back to early Hindu period has been discovered. Many westerners would like Hinduism to be categorized into different sects. Like they have denominations in Christianity, they would like Hinduism to have sects. Some of the Hindus living in the West would like to project Hinduism as Monotheistic and consisting of sects. They do not like to answer question about different Gods/Goddesses and are embarrassed by deities like Kali. Their answer is to project Hinduism as a monotheistic religion with only one GOD. It is these people who are the Neo-Hindus. The attack on non-sectarian Hinduism is an attack by these Neo-Hindus on traditional and Upanashidic Hinduism. I can provide examples and web pages about how these groups want to create a new Monotheistic Hinduism discarding every scripture except those of their own sect. But have we not had enough? Have we not learnt from painful moments in history? Like the long and violent struggle between the followers of Chaintanya Maha Prabhu and Vallabacharya over the control of the temples of Brindavan. Om Namo Bagavate Vaasudevayaa !!!

Sampradhayas are a much later addition. We have only Gotras. And Pranava Rishis. Bhargava, Shynavana, Aurva etc. etc. Not Acharyas. All Brahmins follow only these rules. Vedas are attributed to Rishis not Acharyas. If you want to go to the fundamentals this is it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Vedic_religion There was a movement some years back to rename Hinduism as Vedism.

Tell me why should a person who is a follower of Purva Mimansa and the Karma Kanda of the Vedas ( which pre dates all the Acharyas) and who recites ( with proper intonation as it has been recited for thousands of years by the Vedic Brahmins) all the Sukthas of the Vedas in praise of different Gods, follow any of the new doctrines like Advaita, Bhakti et al? Purva Mimansa is very clear that you reap the benefits of your karmas. There is no supreme GOD who can do anything to change it. This is classical Ancient Hinduism. The original stuff. Brahminical Authority. Brahminism it was called before they made it Hinduism. http://www.indianetzone.com/9/purva_mimamsa_philosophy.htm

Hinduism has always welcomed new ideas. It has grown by different interpretations of the Acharyas. Sankaracharya , Ramanujacharya and Madhvacharya all gave their own interpretation of the Brahma Sutra. Sri Ramakrishna, Swami Vivekananda and Srila Prabhu Pada has given their own interpretations. Everyone who follows the teaching of an Acharya swears by his interpretation. Some of the followers also say that all the others are wrong. The article quoted comes under this. But most of the theorists ignore the simple fact that In India the vast majority of Hindus worship all Gods/Goddesses. They worship the planetary Gods like Saniswara who is not even a Deva. Some of the Hindus may have a grouse against Christians or Muslims. But this is against the followers and not against Christianity or Islam. This is Hinduism in India. BTW What is classical Hinduism? 1. Vedic Hinduism of the Rig Veda? ( No Krishna or Kali. No idols. No temples and no Smiritis.) 2. Puranic Hinduism? 3. Hinduism before Sankara? 4. Hinduism before Ramanuja? 5. Hinduism before Madhva? 6. Hinduism before Chaitanya? 7. Hinduism before the Muslims invaded India? 8. Hinduism before the British invaded India? You can choose one depending on your beliefs. Of course some people say Hinduism does not exist. Unfortunately all the Hindus in the world are stuck with a non-existing religion. Again if the religion does not exist how can any idea change it? Treat every interpretation as a different religion. Shaivism. Sakthism. Vaishnavism Krishnaism Narayanism Ramakrishnaism Sai Babaism. and so on. May be that is what is happening now.

I am sorry. I do not know of any organization running such schools. The Veda Patashalas are not what you are looking for. In Veda Patashalas what is learnt is the ancient Oral tradition of rendering the Vedas. Rishi Valley School was started with such an idea. It is good. Ramakrishna Mission school at Narendrapur is again a good school. But non-Bengalis may have a problem. Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan has many schools where the basic Hindu values are taught. I have not heard of any such schools in Kerala, Coimbatore, or Uttarakand. This does not mean that such schools do not exist. Only that I am not aware of them.

These are called Veda Patashalas. I know a number of them all over India. These are regional in character. Of course people from outside the state also do join rarely. Again there are other restrictions in admission. The normal age of admission is eight. Please let me know your place of residence. The Veda and Sakha which you follow. All the Patashalas do not teach all the Vedas. Then the Sakha restrictions. Let me warn you that these Veda Patashalas are not like residential schools. The food and other facilities are kept at the basic minimum level with hardly any creature comforts. This is how our ancestors lived. But if you are not really looking for a Veda Patashala, but for a school based on Gurukulam principles Rishi Valley school is the best in India. Google the name for details.

"mṛtyor māmṛtaṃ gamaya" is the correct wording. It is possible that this combined with the word "iti" in the text and thus becomes gamayeti. But this does not make sense.

I have always been fascinated by Chaitanya Maha Prabhu. I thought his mission was to spread Bhakthi. Again Panduranga in Pandarpur is my favorite Krishna temple. Saints like Tukaram and bhakthas like Korakumba encouraged me. Korakumaba was a potter who was devoted to Panduranga. Panduranga gave him Dharshan and helped even in solving his family problems. The moral of Korakumba's story is that if you are devoted to Panduranga, he will help you. To me Bhakthi is total surrender to GOD. I was under the impression that the Hare Krishna movement was all about chanting the Lord's name. I am surprised to know that you can not become a Bhaktha if you do not know the scriptures and philosophies. Bhakthi movement spread like wild fire in India because it did away with the caste restrictions. GOD was accessible to all Hindus irrespective of caste. If the Bhakthi movement had insisted on a knowledge of scriptures and philosophies, it would have never become popular. The reason is that only the Brahmins were allowed to study the scriptures. I would like to continue to believe that the Hare Krishna movement is all about chanting the name of the Lord. I do not to the view that "a MOODA can not attain the lotus feet of the Lord." And I believe that Sri Chithanya Maha Prabhu, Tukaram and other saints whom I revere never said such a thing. I have deleted my earlier posts. I remain A MOODA Bhaktha/Upasaka I am happy to join the Gopis of Brindavan in Mooda Bhakthi. http://www.ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/dec96/0022.html

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You are using a Tamil term. The Sanskrit term is Kula devata. In the old days we had Kula devata, Grama devata etc. Even now in formal worship we do pray to them. But almost all the Kulas or Clans have forgotten the Kula devata. Our astrologers have a habit of telling people to locate the Kula devata and pray to the particular Devata. So people start running round searching for the Kula Devata. Adding to the confusion, Kula devata is not the same across an entire caste. Most of the castes in India have a number of Kula Devatas. People do change the Kula Devata when they move to new place. My suggestion would be 1. Locate if possible your ancestral village. 2. Find out the Devata that your caste people worship in that village. 3. Take that Devata as your Kula Devata. 4. Ask your grand mother. Grand mothers are a great resource. They know.

"There are as many ways as there are Men" said Sri Ramakrishna. He was the only Saint who explored the various paths and found all of them to be true. Please read Yagnavalkya and other Smiritis to understand how slavery was very much part of Hinduism and taking women and children as slaves was the norm. The punishment for crimes through ordeals and chopping off of hand etc. is also stated in the Smiritis. The modes of normal behavior varies with times. What held good in the medieval ages may seem outrageous now.

Sakthas are those who worship the Supreme Deity exclusively as a FEMALE PRINCIPLE. The Supreme Deity is the Universal Mother or MAA as she is affectionately called by her Bakthas . But this is pure Sakthism as propounded in the Devi Mahatmya. Here the supreme deity does not have a consort. Shiva is one of the Gods. She is Chandi. MAA CHANDI does not have a consort. Popular Sakthism is allied to Saivism. Here MAA is the Moola Prakriti and Shiva is the Purusha according to Sankhya philosophy.

Just saw this thread. MAA is Beautiful. It would help if you could name the other Devis/Devatas installed in the temple in your album. Jai MAA KAALI !!!

The history of many of the temples in India is not fully known. There are controversies. Thirupati is one of them. There are many theories about its origin. In the absence of reliable academic research it is not possible to confirm or deny any theory. Such a research has not been possible because of the reluctance of the temple authorities to give full access to all the records. The Buddhist theory is one of them. Any such research will only inflame sectarian rivalries. That is the reason for withholding the records. But then we should not pour scorn on any community because of the theories of some of the followers. We have seen the theories of a Vaishnava in another thread. But I did not see anyone attacking Vaishnavism because of the wild theory that all Shiva and Devi temples in India were Vaishnavite. Dr. B.R. Ambedakar is revered by all Indians as the father of the Indian constitution. He led the Dalits in their struggle against social oppression. We should remember that Dr. Ambedkar was given offers both by the Christians and the Muslims to convert the Dalits to Christianity or Islam. But he chose Buddhism which is a sister religion of Hinduism. Had he chosen Christianity or Islam things would have been entirely different. Please do remember that sage Valmiki belonged to a caste which is classified as Dalit now. So did Sage Vyasa whose mother was a fisher-woman.

They are portrayed as Blue. But actually it is Black. Because they were Black. Krishna and Shyam both mean black. But then the poets got into the act and made him blue. But it was Megha Varna. The colour of the clouds. Drowpadi was also black. I do not think there is any problem in India in accepting that both Krishna and Rama were back in colour. Most of the Indians are brown or black. Gods are created by the poets and painters. Everyone has his/her own conception of GOD. Sometimes we try to impose our present values on Gods. If you have seen the Mahabharata serial you would have noticed that the only individual without a moustache was Krishna. Every one knows that even a hundred years back there were very few men in India without a moustache. Again Rama without a moustache. How can there be a Kshatriya without a moustache? It is supposed to be a Kshatriya Lakshnam. Then you have Shiva who is clean shaved. A God with matted hair who stays in the cremation ground, gets a clean shave every day. Funny. But this happens to all the Gods. When did Jesus Christ who was a middle eastern Jew acquire Nordic features? Does the Pieta by Michael Angelo looks like two middle eastern Jewish figures? GOD is omniscient and Omnipotent. He comes in whatever form the Bhakta wants. There are some Bhaktas who envisage Krishna as a woman because their Bhakti is Mathru bhava.

There are not many Hindus who are going strictly by the norms in India now. You will never find them outside India. I remember that when we used to visit my Grandfather in the village, one of our duties every day was to search for a guest to be fed. Strict rules regarding their selection also. Then the crow had to be fed. It is almost impossible to follow these norms today. But there are a very few Brahmin villages where they still follow these norms. To visit these villages is like going back in time. According to non-ISKCON Hindu rules, any food Vegetarian/non-Vegetarian can be offered. Even Liquor can be offered. Nothing is forbidden. Sectarian/Caste rules prohibit certain foods. The regional preferences also play a role. It depends entirely on your belief. I can quote scriptures which prohibit certain kinds of food and also quote other scriptures which do not have any such prohibition. But the essence of offering food to GOD is that you offer the best. If a child offers Ice Cream to Lord Shiva or Lord Krishna, I would say it is perfectly O.K. The child loves Ice cream and offers its favorite food to GOD. The procedure for offering food does not change. The same procedure holds good for all the Gods/Goddesses.

Performing MAHA SUDARSHAN HOMAM will be only beneficial. There are institutions in India which perform this for a fees. But it is not done very often. Doing it on your own is very difficult and also very expensive. I will find out and send you a p.m once I am able to locate a trusted institution. BTW I am not a Swamiji. Again did you ask the Pandit where you can perform this? These Pandits normally have a place up their sleeve before making such prescriptions.

Clarification on a couple of points made already. This is not true in Bhakthi Yoga which is the main principle of Vaishnavism. Bhakthi Marga is the only path suited for the present time. You do the Puja to the best of your abilities. What is important is the intent. Devotion or Bhakthi is more important than rituals. A friend of mine has a beautiful image of Krishna at home. She does Puja every day. But then her work takes her out of station often. So she keeps some dry fruits near the Murti and tells Krishna to take that everyday till she returns. This may not be according to laid down rules. And some one might say she is crazy. Then all Bhakthas are crazy. All of us who post in this forum would be considered crazy by other people. Many of my friends/relatives who are bound with the material world think I am crazy to be posting in such forums. We should become crazy. GOD crazy. Hinduism in general expects that all food is first offered to GOD and then only eaten. In the house of a traditional Brahmin, no food is taken till it is offered to GOD. Again the head of the family is not supposed to eat till the food is first taken by a Guest. Athidhi. Offering of food in temples is an age old Hindu practice. It is called Bhog. The temples in Himachal Pradesh offer free food to all the pilgrims. All the south Indian temples offer free and sumptuous food to all pilgrims. The Bengal temples have Bhog. Some of the temples have started charging a nominal amount to restrict the crowd.

I am a Kali_Upasaka and a Hindu. That is all I am now.

We do not know. But what we have is the oral tradition of the Vedas. What is in the Vedas. Then we have the translations. The prayers do not need any interpretations. The Vedic people were very simple people who were at home with nature. Historians and archeologists do not accept the millions of years theory. Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas

Just wanted to add a couple of things. In Tamil Nadu couples who run away and get married, go to the temple and exchange garlands in front of the deity. The groom also ties a mangal sutra. Please take a Tamil friend and talk to the priest of the local temple. This procedure costs next to nothing. Only the cost of the garlands and dhakshina to the priest. Mangal sutra could be a simple one. This is an accepted form of Hindu marriage.

I know Sanskrit and have studied the Vedas. I recite the Vedas with the proper intonation and have undergone proper initiation and training for that. Again I have an academic degree in Hindu history. Ishta Devata is a concept which was developed at a much later period. I can post the books on the religious history of India for reference.