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andy108

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Posts posted by andy108


  1.  

    "So, without a proper Vedic king and a cabinet of brahmans, it is totally ridiculous to try and compare western people in divisions of labor and castes."

     

    This was the only portion of Sonic's post that I was unclear about. His use of the word compare is incongruent with the context of the rest of that sentence, and the only words I can think of that would fit are nothing like the word "compare".

     

    But as for the rest of his post, that is spot on and the very reason why Srila Prabhupada gave duties to engage the westerners who had the closest to brahminical nature, the most sattva guna compared to the rest of society, and then offered detailed instructions on how to create a system of DAIVA Varnasrama, which was a tailor made system which took into consideration the large amount of tama guna that is mixed with any westerners who have any goodness or passion. It was to meet us where we were actually at, and gradually help us advance.

     

    It was based on Sri Narada's Pancaratrik Vidhi at heart, and Srila Prabhupada added some instructions based on what Krsna dictated to him.

     

    Unfortunately, by and large the Iskcon crew thought they would reproduce Vedanta Vidhi, based on their minimal exposure to the traditions of bygone ages when people were qualified to engage in the full Vedic program.

     

    They did this because they could pretend to be fully qualified Brahmanas according to Dwarpa Yuga standards, following this strict system that none of them, and noone else could actually follow.

     

    But since they were the Leaders and Srila Prabhupada was not there in Vapu to walk into the room and correct their deceptions, they could modify their presentation of the system enough to appear that they were the learned experienced elders, and no-one would ever be able to get to their level, thus keeping a slave labor force struggling to climb the ladder to the glass ceiling.

     

    If they had implemented Daiva Varnasrama, all comers would be immediately engaged based on where they were at in their Kali Yuga degradation, and they would not need anyone falsely Lording it over them perpetually.

     

    Lucky for us Srila Prabhupada is here in his Vani, and has through that exposed the charade.


  2.  

    I often wondered why SP surrounded himself with so many questionable characters and why he kept them in power despite so many mistakes on their part.

     

    I doubt there was any 'great plan' in that. I think SP simply hoped that these people will eventually get purified and he trusted Krsna to take care of things.

     

    In the second paragraph, which I agree with, you seem to have the vision that Krsna is taking care of things, and that "those people" were actually involved in a process of purification.

     

    Yet if you really understood and believed that, I find it hard to understand how you could say what you did in the First paragraph.

     

    Blaming Srila Prabhupada for "surrounding himself" with these characters?

     

    Why can't you see it was Krsna who sent them to surround Srila Prabhupada?

     

    And as far as keeping them in power, how else to "purify" them? Send them off to Moscow to work for Brezhnev?

     

    As long as they continued to resubmit to SP each time they were chastised, he was obligated by love as Father and Spiritual Master to give them another chance, even if they would just fall prey to Maya 10 minutes later.

     

    If you stop blaming Srila Prabhupada, take responsibility for your own trusting support of "those characters" which was part of your own purification (albeit at a higher level as victim not the main perpetrator), you can then ACTUALLY leave it all behind, including the subtle aparadha against Prabhupada, and take a quantum leap in your service.


  3.  

    Hey, something I agree with you on!

     

    It would probably be more correct to say that one who inquisitive is potentially a brahmana, but like you said, you have to follow the rules of varna and ashrama.

     

    I only made those statements because just as AncientMariner said, I too saw it from a book that was written by one of the previous acaryas, and I remember it said that a person who was attracted to Krsna Consciousness through curiousity is (potentially) a kshatriya.

     

    The 4 pious approaches generally equate with the 4 varnas in their most general sense, that being Bra=goodness, Ksy=Passion, Vai=Passion mixed with ignorance, Sudra=ingorance.

     

    Since a person first approaching is not yet spiritual, they may be civilized and generally be approaching Piety due to one type of approach, but tinges of other approaches may be included.

     

    Approaching through...

     

    Wisdom (materially speaking) = potential Vaisnava brahmana/mode of goodness/scientist/philosopher/educator - approaches through wisdom and by virtue of approaching a Guru has some "inquiry"

     

    Inquisitiveness = potential Vaisnava Ksyatria/ mode of passion guided by righteousness/administrator/military man - approaching due to frustration with material pleasures mainly by inquiring "is there more?", thus showing some "wisdom"

     

    Needs money = potential Vaisnava Vaisya/ mode of ignorance reaching toward passion/ businessman/banker/monocrop farmer - approaching with hopes of being able to survive better without fruitless struggle born of ignorance (will be happy with learning wise Vedic/Vaisnava agricultural methods and proper animal husbandry/land management.

     

    In distress = Slaves of ignorant men = potential Vaisnava Sudra/ mode of ignorance/ largely abused servant of fools - approaching hoping for something better than the abuse they live with now. (Will be happy serving a higher Varna Vaisnava).

     

    In the following lecture Srila Prabhupada describes how the modes interact materially in each Varna, and how when one sincerely approaches God (accepting education or training from a Spiritual Master) one can bascially be educated to understand their constitutional position, who is God, and what activities they can engage in for that relationship to be manifest. Regardless of what Varna or approach one uses, each can get directly engaged.

     

     

    Lecture Engagement and Prasada Distribution -- Boston, April 26, 1969

     

    All Varnas have tinges of other modes. Just like in the material qualities, some men are very good men—the quality of goodness—and some men are in passion. That is the rajo-guṇa. And some men are in darkness. So there are three qualities in the material world: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, and tamo-guṇa. So those who are situated in the modes of goodness, they are called perfect in the material world, very good men. That "very good man" does not mean that he is spiritually advanced. He may be moralist. He may be philanthropist, just like so many leaders of nations. That is another thing. The spiritual state is called viśuddha-sattva. Viśuddha-sattva means goodness where no other quality can contaminate. Here even one man is very good man, sometimes he is tinged with passion or ignorance. Just like I told you that Mahātmā Gandhi, he was a recognized good man, but he committed so many mistakes. So pure goodness is not possible in this material world. Pure goodness means spiritual life.

     

     

    lecture Montreal Oct. 26, 1968

     

    Therefore education, training, and all so many things there are in every civilized human form of life so that he may come to the platform of goodness. And not only that goodness. One has to surpass that platform of goodness and come to the platform of pure goodness. In this material world it is very difficult to stand on the platform of goodness pure. Even a good man sometimes commits some mistake, commits some blunder in the material world. Because you should always remember that there are three modes of material nature—ignorance, passion, and goodness. Even you are on the platform of goodness, the other two qualities may be studied. Because it is the kingdom of māyā, or material nature, these things are very prominent. Sometimes goodness is prominent, sometimes ignorance is prominent, sometimes passion is prominent. In this way sometimes they are mixed up...

     

    ...Similarly, our senses, our present senses, they are incapable of understanding what is God or what is God's kingdom. They cannot understand. It is not possible. The senses are blunt, ignorant. Ignorance and passion, the covering. But if you come out of this ignorance and passion, you come to the platform of goodness, then you can understand a little. Not fully. Then again you have to surpass, transcend the platform of goodness, which is called śuddha-sattva, without any tinge of material qualities...

     

    ...Goodness is the qualification, is the symbolic representation of becoming a brāhmaṇa. You have heard this name brāhmaṇa. The brāhmaṇa means qualified man in goodness. That is the brāhmaṇa. And kṣatriya means qualified man in passion, and vaiśya means qualified man in ignorance and passion, and śūdra means qualified man in ignorance. These are the natural division of human society. In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find it is said, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [bg. 4.13]. By the division, qualitative division and their engagement, there are four castes. You sometimes criticize that India has got caste system. Everywhere the caste system is there—everywhere, throughout the whole universe. Because the three qualities are ruling. So some of them are in goodness, some of them are in passion, some of them are in ignorance, and some of them are in mixed-up qualities. So mixed-up qualities means vaiśya, and pure goodness is brāhmaṇa, and pure passion is kṣatriya, and pure ignorance is śūdra. So these divisions you'll find everywhere throughout the universe. It is not that... But in India also at the present moment this caste system has become a hereditary. No. It is not hereditary. A śūdra can become a brāhmaṇa—if he qualifies himself. Just like a policeman can one day become the learned judge of high-court if he qualifies himself. There is chance. There is educational facilities. You educate yourself. You become doctor of law, you also one day. You become one day president. Everyone is open. Similarly, the chance is open for everyone how to become the supreme man. Supreme man means one who understands God and his relationship. He is supreme man. All others, they are below the supreme man. The supreme man is the first-class man, and the others, who are below God understanding, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are second class, third class, fourth class, fifth class, like that. This is the classification. So below the third-class, fourth-class man, śūdras, they are called caṇḍālas. Caṇḍālas. Caṇḍālas means fifth-grade man. The fifth-grade man also can be elevated to the first-grade man. That is the instruction of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

    kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā

    ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ

    ye 'nye ca pāpā yad-apāśrayāśrayāḥ

    śudhyanti prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ

    [SB 2.4.18]

    God is so powerful. Just like sunlight is so powerful it can sterilize any infected thing. Any infected. Infection, we are afraid of being infected. But if you come to the sunlight, no infection. No infection. This is scientific. Similarly, whatever your qualification may be, however you may be impelled by the qualities of this material nature, if you come to the sunlight of Kṛṣṇa consciousness you become immediately purified. There are many instances among my students, how they have become immediately purified..."

     


  4.  

    So Prabhupada made a GBC, sannyasi and ritvik out of a man that he felt was not a Vaishnava?

     

    So, Gurukripa waited over 30 years to share this little tidbit?

     

    How curious.

     

    This kind of revelation cannot do much except call in to question the judgment and character of Srila Prabhupada.

    Only for those who aren't steeped in knowledge of what Sri Krsna put on His Senapati General's plate.

     

    Just look at how many other more minor revelations of SP's tactics have set people firmly in judgment against the character of Srila Prabhupada.

     

    Those who would rush to judgement of Srila Prabhupada on the basis of considerations viewed in terms of pure material pragmatism and success are simply ignorant prakrita neophytes and their point of view will never negatively effect anyone who is seeing deeper and catching the Mercy.

     

    All they can accomplish by such judgments is to influence some innocent materialistic seekers of truth from making a firm commitment, which is bad enough I suppose.

     

    But for the purpose of the informed members of this forum, this is easily explained.

     

    There is much to condsider here. Srila Prabhupada's mission was not a narrow one. It was one intended to directly effect the desperate needs of entire Earth due to the predominant rise of irreligiousity through the multitude of fallen souls in this age of hypocrisy, and address the needs of this entire Jagat as well.

     

    We know Srila Prabhupada said "Vaisnava not so easy, if so why so many falling down".

     

    We know there is a stage of mixed devotion and that an advanced personality will inform his neopyte disciples to consider all those practicing sadhana to be Vaisnava, but simultaneously sometimes some neophytes are known for their wild swings back into degradation. Thus they are not actually firmly a Vaisnava at those times.

     

    Gurukrpa was at a more advanced stage at the time, where his intermediate discrimination noted how far Tamal, who once surrendered to Srila Prabhupada to some degree, had actually plunged into envious degradation. Thus Srila Prabhupada wishing to give assurances to one of his better men, confided in him the other side of the story, that Tamal actually could not be considered a Vaisnava at the time.

     

    And in such a case, it is the Acarya's perogative to attempt to rectify the person if they feel it possible, or rectify the situation by putting a temporary HOLD on the relationship.

     

    There is an instance of Srila Prabhupada showing some disciples the door, basically excommunicating them "for good" because they refused to surrender, or even make a show of it.

     

    And of course the old axiom, keep your friends close, and enemies closer.


  5.  

    Kuli-Yuga happens because people deserve to be born in this time period due to their karma.

     

    There are many valid angles of vision as to the why when how and what for of Kali-Yuga.

     

    Whenever a soul falls into illusion, as did Srngi, that soul is being influenced and directed by Lord Krsna's Materially Omnipotent Servant, Maha-Maya as she binds that soul with modes of nature and pulls those binding strings as a puppeteer does.

     

    And of course this is simultaneously a free choice of the soul to do so, AND according to Krsna's own will and plan. When Free-will and destiny collide.


  6. This thread is dedicated to all of Srngi's descendents who are participating on this forum these days, those who admit it and are willing to change, and those who like things just the way they are. Bullies of the world REPENT!

     

     

    Srimad-Bhagavatam : Canto 1:"Creation" : SB 1.18: Maharaja Pariksit Cursed by a Brahmana Boy :

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    SB 1.18.32 : The sage had a son who was very powerful, being a brāhmaṇa's son. While he was playing with inexperienced boys, he heard of his father's distress, which was occasioned by the King. Then and there the boy spoke as follows.

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    PURPORT :

    Due to Mahārāja Parīkṣit's good government, even a boy of tender age, who was playing with other inexperienced boys, could become as powerful as a qualified brāhmaṇa. This boy was known as Śṛṅgi, and he achieved good training in brahmacarya by his father so that he could be as powerful as a brāhmaṇa, even at that age. But because the age of Kali was seeking an opportunity to spoil the cultural heritage of the four orders of life, the inexperienced boy gave a chance for the age of Kali to enter into the field of Vedic culture. Hatred of the lower orders of life began from this brāhmaṇa boy, under the influence of Kali, and thus cultural life began to dwindle day after day. The first victim of brahminical injustice was Mahārāja Parīkṣit, and thus the protection given by the King against the onslaught of Kali was slackened.

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    1.18.33 The brāhmaṇa's son, Śṛṅgi, said:] O just look at the sins of the rulers who, like crows and watchdogs at the door, perpetrate sins against their masters, contrary to the principles governing servants.

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    Purport: The brāhmaṇas are considered to be the head and brains of the social body, and the kṣatriyas are considered to be the arms of the social body. The arms are required to protect the body from all harm, but the arms must act according to the directions of the head and brain. That is a natural arrangement made by the supreme order, for it is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā that four social orders or castes, namely the brāhmaṇas, the kṣatriyas, the vaiśyas and the śūdras, are set up according to quality and work done by them. Naturally the son of a brāhmaṇa has a good chance to become a brāhmaṇa by the direction of his qualified father, as a son of a medical practitioner has a very good chance to become a qualified medical practitioner. So the caste system is quite scientific. The son must take advantage of the father's qualification and thus become a brāhmaṇa or medical practitioner, and not otherwise. Without being qualified, one cannot become a brāhmaṇa or medical practitioner, and that is the verdict of all scriptures and social orders. Herein Śṛṅgi, a qualified son of a great brāhmaṇa, attained the required brahminical power both by birth and by training, but he was lacking in culture because he was an inexperienced boy. By the influence of Kali, the son of a brāhmaṇa became puffed up with brahminical power and thus wrongly compared Mahārāja Parīkṣit to crows and watchdogs. The King is certainly the watchdog of the state in the sense that he keeps vigilant eyes over the border of the state for its protection and defense, but to address him as a watchdog is the sign of a less-cultured boy. Thus the downfall of the brahminical powers began as they gave importance to birthright without culture. The downfall of the brāhmaṇa caste began in the age of Kali. And since brāhmaṇas are the heads of the social order, all other orders of society also began to deteriorate. This beginning of brahminical deterioration was highly deplored by the father of Śṛṅgi, as we will find.

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    1.18.34 The descendants of the kingly orders are definitely designated as watchdogs, and they must keep themselves at the door. On what grounds can dogs enter the house and claim to dine with the master on the same plate?

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    Purport: The inexperienced brāhmaṇa boy certainly knew that the King asked for water from his father and the father did not respond. He tried to explain away his father's inhospitality in an impertinent manner befitting an uncultured boy. He was not at all sorry for the King's not being well received. On the contrary, he justified the wrong act in a way characteristic of the brāhmaṇas of Kali-yuga. He compared the King to a watchdog, and so it was wrong for the King to enter the home of a brāhmaṇa and ask for water from the same pot. The dog is certainly reared by its master, but that does not mean that the dog shall claim to dine and drink from the same pot. This mentality of false prestige is the cause of downfall of the perfect social order, and we can see that in the beginning it was started by the inexperienced son of a brāhmaṇa. As the dog is never allowed to enter within the room and hearth, although it is reared by the master, similarly, according to Śṛṅgi, the King had no right to enter the house of Śamīka Ṛṣi. According to the boy's opinion, the King was on the wrong side and not his father, and thus he justified his silent father.

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    1.18.35 After the departure of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the Personality of Godhead and supreme ruler of everyone, these upstarts have flourished, our protector being gone. Therefore I myself shall take up this matter and punish them. Just witness my power.

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    PURPORT

    The inexperienced brāhmaṇa, puffed up by a little brahma-tejas, became influenced by the spell of Kali-yuga. Mahārāja Parīkṣit gave license to Kali to live in four places as mentioned hereinbefore, but by his very expert government the personality of Kali could hardly find the places allotted him. The personality of Kali-yuga, therefore, was seeking the opportunity to establish authority, and by the grace of the Lord he found a hole in the puffed-up, inexperienced son of a brāhmaṇa. The little brāhmaṇa wanted to show his prowess in destruction, and he had the audacity to punish such a great king as Mahārāja Parīkṣit. He wanted to take the place of Lord Kṛṣṇa after His departure. These are the principal signs of upstarts who want to take the place of Śrī Kṛṣṇa under the influence of the age of Kali. An upstart with a little power wants to become an incarnation of the Lord. There are many false incarnations after the departure of Lord Kṛṣṇa from the face of the globe, and they are misleading the innocent public by accepting the spiritual obedience of the general mass of people to maintain false prestige. In other words, the personality of Kali got the opportunity to reign through this son of a brāhmaṇa, Śṛṅgi.

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    1.18.36 : The son of the rsi, his eyes red-hot with anger, touched the water of the River Kauśika while speaking to his playmates and discharged the following thunderbolt of words.

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    Purport: The circumstances under which Mahārāja Parīkṣit was cursed were simply childish, as it appears from this verse. Śṛṅgi was showing his impudency amongst his playmates, who were innocent. Any sane man would have prevented him from doing such great harm to all human society. By killing a king like Mahārāja Parīkṣit, just to make a show of acquired brahminical power, the inexperienced son of a brāhmaṇa committed a great mistake.

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    1.18.37 :The brāhmaṇa's son cursed the King thus: On the seventh day from today a snake-bird will bite the most wretched one of that dynasty [Mahārāja Parīkṣit] because of his having broken the laws of etiquette by insulting my father.

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    Puport: Thus the beginning of the misuse of brahminical power began, and gradually the brāhmaṇas in the age of Kali became devoid of both brahminical powers and culture. The brāhmaṇa boy considered Mahārāja Parīkṣit to be kulāṅgāra, or the wretched of the dynasty, but factually the brāhmaṇa boy himself was so because only from him did the brāhmaṇa caste become powerless, like the snake whose poisoned teeth are broken. The snake is fearful as long as his poison teeth are there, otherwise he is fearful only to children. The personality of Kali conquered the brāhmaṇa boy first, and gradually the other castes. Thus the whole scientific system of the orders of society in this age has assumed the form of a vitiated caste system, which is now being uprooted by another class of men similarly influenced by the age of Kali. One should see to the root cause of vitiation and not try to condemn the system as it is, without knowledge of its scientific value.

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    1.18.38 : Thereafter, when the boy returned to the hermitage, he saw a snake on his father's shoulder, and out of his grief he cried very loudly.

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    PURPORT

    The boy was not happy because he committed a great mistake, and he wanted to be relieved of the burden on his heart by crying. So after entering the hermitage and seeing his father in that condition, he cried loudly so that he might be relieved. But it was too late. The father regretted the whole incident.

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    1.18.39: O brāhmaṇas, the rsi, who was born in the family of Aṅgirā Muni, hearing his son crying, gradually opened his eyes and saw the dead snake around his neck.

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    1.18.40 : He threw the dead snake aside and asked his son why he was crying, whether anyone had done him harm. On hearing this, the son explained to him what had happened.

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    PURPORT : The father did not take the dead snake on his neck very seriously. He simply threw it away. Actually there was nothing seriously wrong in Mahārāja Parīkṣit's act, but the foolish son took it very seriously, and being influenced by Kali he cursed the King and thus ended a chapter of happy history.

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    1.18.41 : The father heard from his son that the King had been cursed, although he should never have been condemned, for he was the best amongst all human beings. The ṛṣi did not congratulate his son, but, on the contrary, began to repent, saying: Alas! What a great sinful act was performed by my son. He has awarded heavy punishment for an insignificant offense.

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    PURPORT :The king is the best of all human beings. He is the representative of God, and he is never to be condemned for any of his actions. In other words, the king can do no wrong. The king may order hanging of a culprit son of a brāhmaṇa, but he does not become sinful for killing a brāhmaṇa. Even if there is something wrong with the king, he is never to be condemned. A medical practitioner may kill a patient by mistaken treatment, but such a killer is never condemned to death. So what to speak of a good and pious king like Mahārāja Parīkṣit? In the Vedic way of life, the king is trained to become a rājarṣi, or a great saint, although he is ruling as king. It is the king only by whose good government the citizens can live peacefully and without any fear. The rājarṣis would manage their kingdoms so nicely and piously that their subjects would respect them as if they were the Lord. That is the instruction of the Vedas. The king is called narendra, or the best amongst the human beings. How then could a king like Mahārāja Parīkṣit be condemned by an inexperienced, puffed-up son of a brahmaṇa, even though he had attained the powers of a qualified brāhmaṇa?

    Since Śamīka Ṛṣi was an experienced, good brāhmaṇa, he did not approve of the actions of his condemned son. He began to lament for all that his son had done. The king was beyond the jurisdiction of curses as a general rule, and what to speak of a good king like Mahārāja Parīkṣit. The offense of the King was most insignificant, and his being condemned to death was certainly a very great sin for Śṛṅgi. Therefore Ṛṣi Śamīka regretted the whole incident.

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  7. Srngi's influence continues to be evident.

     

    SRNGI'S FOLLY

     

    Srimad-Bhagavatam : Canto 1:"Creation" : SB 1.18: Maharaja Pariksit Cursed by a Brahmana Boy :

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    SB 1.18.32 : The sage had a son who was very powerful, being a brāhmaṇa's son. While he was playing with inexperienced boys, he heard of his father's distress, which was occasioned by the King. Then and there the boy spoke as follows.

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    PURPORT :

    Due to Mahārāja Parīkṣit's good government, even a boy of tender age, who was playing with other inexperienced boys, could become as powerful as a qualified brāhmaṇa. This boy was known as Śṛṅgi, and he achieved good training in brahmacarya by his father so that he could be as powerful as a brāhmaṇa, even at that age. But because the age of Kali was seeking an opportunity to spoil the cultural heritage of the four orders of life, the inexperienced boy gave a chance for the age of Kali to enter into the field of Vedic culture. Hatred of the lower orders of life began from this brāhmaṇa boy, under the influence of Kali, and thus cultural life began to dwindle day after day. The first victim of brahminical injustice was Mahārāja Parīkṣit, and thus the protection given by the King against the onslaught of Kali was slackened.

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    1.18.33 The brāhmaṇa's son, Śṛṅgi, said:] O just look at the sins of the rulers who, like crows and watchdogs at the door, perpetrate sins against their masters, contrary to the principles governing servants.

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    Purport: The brāhmaṇas are considered to be the head and brains of the social body, and the kṣatriyas are considered to be the arms of the social body. The arms are required to protect the body from all harm, but the arms must act according to the directions of the head and brain. That is a natural arrangement made by the supreme order, for it is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā that four social orders or castes, namely the brāhmaṇas, the kṣatriyas, the vaiśyas and the śūdras, are set up according to quality and work done by them. Naturally the son of a brāhmaṇa has a good chance to become a brāhmaṇa by the direction of his qualified father, as a son of a medical practitioner has a very good chance to become a qualified medical practitioner. So the caste system is quite scientific. The son must take advantage of the father's qualification and thus become a brāhmaṇa or medical practitioner, and not otherwise. Without being qualified, one cannot become a brāhmaṇa or medical practitioner, and that is the verdict of all scriptures and social orders. Herein Śṛṅgi, a qualified son of a great brāhmaṇa, attained the required brahminical power both by birth and by training, but he was lacking in culture because he was an inexperienced boy. By the influence of Kali, the son of a brāhmaṇa became puffed up with brahminical power and thus wrongly compared Mahārāja Parīkṣit to crows and watchdogs. The King is certainly the watchdog of the state in the sense that he keeps vigilant eyes over the border of the state for its protection and defense, but to address him as a watchdog is the sign of a less-cultured boy. Thus the downfall of the brahminical powers began as they gave importance to birthright without culture. The downfall of the brāhmaṇa caste began in the age of Kali. And since brāhmaṇas are the heads of the social order, all other orders of society also began to deteriorate. This beginning of brahminical deterioration was highly deplored by the father of Śṛṅgi, as we will find.

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    1.18.34 The descendants of the kingly orders are definitely designated as watchdogs, and they must keep themselves at the door. On what grounds can dogs enter the house and claim to dine with the master on the same plate?

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    Purport: The inexperienced brāhmaṇa boy certainly knew that the King asked for water from his father and the father did not respond. He tried to explain away his father's inhospitality in an impertinent manner befitting an uncultured boy. He was not at all sorry for the King's not being well received. On the contrary, he justified the wrong act in a way characteristic of the brāhmaṇas of Kali-yuga. He compared the King to a watchdog, and so it was wrong for the King to enter the home of a brāhmaṇa and ask for water from the same pot. The dog is certainly reared by its master, but that does not mean that the dog shall claim to dine and drink from the same pot. This mentality of false prestige is the cause of downfall of the perfect social order, and we can see that in the beginning it was started by the inexperienced son of a brāhmaṇa. As the dog is never allowed to enter within the room and hearth, although it is reared by the master, similarly, according to Śṛṅgi, the King had no right to enter the house of Śamīka Ṛṣi. According to the boy's opinion, the King was on the wrong side and not his father, and thus he justified his silent father.

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    1.18.35 After the departure of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the Personality of Godhead and supreme ruler of everyone, these upstarts have flourished, our protector being gone. Therefore I myself shall take up this matter and punish them. Just witness my power.

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    PURPORT

    The inexperienced brāhmaṇa, puffed up by a little brahma-tejas, became influenced by the spell of Kali-yuga. Mahārāja Parīkṣit gave license to Kali to live in four places as mentioned hereinbefore, but by his very expert government the personality of Kali could hardly find the places allotted him. The personality of Kali-yuga, therefore, was seeking the opportunity to establish authority, and by the grace of the Lord he found a hole in the puffed-up, inexperienced son of a brāhmaṇa. The little brāhmaṇa wanted to show his prowess in destruction, and he had the audacity to punish such a great king as Mahārāja Parīkṣit. He wanted to take the place of Lord Kṛṣṇa after His departure. These are the principal signs of upstarts who want to take the place of Śrī Kṛṣṇa under the influence of the age of Kali. An upstart with a little power wants to become an incarnation of the Lord. There are many false incarnations after the departure of Lord Kṛṣṇa from the face of the globe, and they are misleading the innocent public by accepting the spiritual obedience of the general mass of people to maintain false prestige. In other words, the personality of Kali got the opportunity to reign through this son of a brāhmaṇa, Śṛṅgi.

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    1.18.36 : The son of the rsi, his eyes red-hot with anger, touched the water of the River Kauśika while speaking to his playmates and discharged the following thunderbolt of words.

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    Purport: The circumstances under which Mahārāja Parīkṣit was cursed were simply childish, as it appears from this verse. Śṛṅgi was showing his impudency amongst his playmates, who were innocent. Any sane man would have prevented him from doing such great harm to all human society. By killing a king like Mahārāja Parīkṣit, just to make a show of acquired brahminical power, the inexperienced son of a brāhmaṇa committed a great mistake.

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    1.18.37 :The brāhmaṇa's son cursed the King thus: On the seventh day from today a snake-bird will bite the most wretched one of that dynasty [Mahārāja Parīkṣit] because of his having broken the laws of etiquette by insulting my father.

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    Puport: Thus the beginning of the misuse of brahminical power began, and gradually the brāhmaṇas in the age of Kali became devoid of both brahminical powers and culture. The brāhmaṇa boy considered Mahārāja Parīkṣit to be kulāṅgāra, or the wretched of the dynasty, but factually the brāhmaṇa boy himself was so because only from him did the brāhmaṇa caste become powerless, like the snake whose poisoned teeth are broken. The snake is fearful as long as his poison teeth are there, otherwise he is fearful only to children. The personality of Kali conquered the brāhmaṇa boy first, and gradually the other castes. Thus the whole scientific system of the orders of society in this age has assumed the form of a vitiated caste system, which is now being uprooted by another class of men similarly influenced by the age of Kali. One should see to the root cause of vitiation and not try to condemn the system as it is, without knowledge of its scientific value.

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    1.18.38 : Thereafter, when the boy returned to the hermitage, he saw a snake on his father's shoulder, and out of his grief he cried very loudly.

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    PURPORT

    The boy was not happy because he committed a great mistake, and he wanted to be relieved of the burden on his heart by crying. So after entering the hermitage and seeing his father in that condition, he cried loudly so that he might be relieved. But it was too late. The father regretted the whole incident.

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    1.18.39: O brāhmaṇas, the rsi, who was born in the family of Aṅgirā Muni, hearing his son crying, gradually opened his eyes and saw the dead snake around his neck.

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    1.18.40 : He threw the dead snake aside and asked his son why he was crying, whether anyone had done him harm. On hearing this, the son explained to him what had happened.

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    PURPORT : The father did not take the dead snake on his neck very seriously. He simply threw it away. Actually there was nothing seriously wrong in Mahārāja Parīkṣit's act, but the foolish son took it very seriously, and being influenced by Kali he cursed the King and thus ended a chapter of happy history.

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    1.18.41 : The father heard from his son that the King had been cursed, although he should never have been condemned, for he was the best amongst all human beings. The ṛṣi did not congratulate his son, but, on the contrary, began to repent, saying: Alas! What a great sinful act was performed by my son. He has awarded heavy punishment for an insignificant offense.

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    PURPORT :The king is the best of all human beings. He is the representative of God, and he is never to be condemned for any of his actions. In other words, the king can do no wrong. The king may order hanging of a culprit son of a brāhmaṇa, but he does not become sinful for killing a brāhmaṇa. Even if there is something wrong with the king, he is never to be condemned. A medical practitioner may kill a patient by mistaken treatment, but such a killer is never condemned to death. So what to speak of a good and pious king like Mahārāja Parīkṣit? In the Vedic way of life, the king is trained to become a rājarṣi, or a great saint, although he is ruling as king. It is the king only by whose good government the citizens can live peacefully and without any fear. The rājarṣis would manage their kingdoms so nicely and piously that their subjects would respect them as if they were the Lord. That is the instruction of the Vedas. The king is called narendra, or the best amongst the human beings. How then could a king like Mahārāja Parīkṣit be condemned by an inexperienced, puffed-up son of a brahmaṇa, even though he had attained the powers of a qualified brāhmaṇa?

    Since Śamīka Ṛṣi was an experienced, good brāhmaṇa, he did not approve of the actions of his condemned son. He began to lament for all that his son had done. The king was beyond the jurisdiction of curses as a general rule, and what to speak of a good king like Mahārāja Parīkṣit. The offense of the King was most insignificant, and his being condemned to death was certainly a very great sin for Śṛṅgi. Therefore Ṛṣi Śamīka regretted the whole incident.

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  8.  

    I was under the understanding that the brahmanas are the priests who teach the people brahmanical culture of cow protection. The intellectual class of the world right now are mostly working in computer science, politics, or medicine and eating at McDonald's during thier lunch break. Brahmanical culture does not seem to be a big priority of the intellectual class as near as I can tell but I could be wrong.

    This is an important point Ancient, which I touched on earlier.

     

    Srila Prabhupada says the following about the western intellectuals who he came to save.

     

     

    Bg 14.6 : PURPORT

     

    The difficulty here is that when a living entity is situated in the mode of goodness, he becomes conditioned to feel that he is advanced in knowledge and is better than others. In this way he becomes conditioned. The best examples are the scientist and philosopher: each is very proud of his knowledge, and because they generally improve their living conditions, they feel a sort of material happiness. This sense of advanced happiness in conditioned life makes them bound by the mode of goodness of material nature. As such, they are attracted toward working in the mode of goodness, and, as long as they have an attraction for working in that way, they have to take some type of body in the modes of nature. Thus there is no likelihood of liberation, or of being transferred to the spiritual world.

     

    BG 14:9

     

    A person in the mode of goodness is satisfied by his work or intellectual pursuit, just as a philosopher, scientist, or educator may be engaged in a particular field of knowledge and may be satisfied in that way.

    You see, there is no brahminical culture, but they are brahmanas in potential. They are generally in search of truth by some methodology, but may not always be honest in their dealings, and as far as the other qualities of a brahmana they are to be cultivated by keeping company with the embodiment of that culture, the Acarya.

     

    BG 18:42

     

    TEXT

    śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ

    kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca

    jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ

    brahma-karma svabhāva-jam

     

    TRANSLATION

    Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness-these are the qualities by which the brāhmaṇas work.

     

    SB 1.16.31 : PURPORT :In the age of Kali, the first attack of the venomous snake strikes against the God-made varṇāśrama-dharma, and thus a person properly qualified as a brāhmaṇa is called a śūdra, and a śūdra by qualification is passing as a brāhmaṇa, all on a false birthright claim. To become a brāhmaṇa by a birthright claim is not at all bona fide, although it may be a fulfillment of one of the conditions. But the real qualification of a brāhmaṇa is to control the mind and the senses, and to cultivate tolerance, simplicity, cleanliness, knowledge, truthfulness, devotion and faith in the Vedic wisdom. In the present age, consideration of the necessary qualification is being neglected, and the false birthright claim is being supported even by a popular, sophisticated poet, the author of Rāma-carita-mānasa.

     

     

    sb 1.17.24 But to surrender unto the lotus feet of the Lord is also not very easy. Such surrender is possible by persons of austerity, cleanliness, mercy and truthfulness. These four principles of advanced civilization were remarkable features in the age of Satya. In that age, every human being was practically a qualified brāhmaṇa of the highest order, and in the social orders of life they were all paramahaṁsas, or the topmost in the renounced order. By cultural standing, the human beings were not at all subjected to the deluding energy. Such strong men of character were competent enough to get away from the clutches of māyā. But gradually, as the basic principles of brahminical culture, namely austerity, cleanliness, mercy and truthfulness, became curtailed by proportionate development of pride, attachment for women and intoxication, the path of salvation or the path of transcendental bliss retreated far, far away from human society. With the progression of the age of Kali, people are becoming very proud, and attached to women and intoxication. By the influence of the age of Kali, even a pauper is proud of his penny, the women are always dressed in an overly attractive fashion to victimize the minds of men, and the man is addicted to drinking wine, smoking, drinking tea and chewing tobacco, etc. All these habits, or so-called advancement of civilization, are the root causes of all irreligiosities, and therefore it is not possible to check corruption, bribery and nepotism. Man cannot check all these evils simply by statutory acts and police vigilance, but he can cure the disease of the mind by the proper medicine, namely advocating the principles of brahminical culture or the principles of austerity, cleanliness, mercy and truthfulness.

     

    Srila Prabhupada said that when the head of society is on straight, the rest would follow. He approached all of the intellectual impersonalists, voidists and even non-transcendentalists (demons) and gave them the opportunity to receive Vaisnava brahminical culture.

     

    It was a 2 pronged approach. Give some concept of Krsna and his Holy Names, start everyone on a gradual path of accepting cultural purification.


  9. The problem here is you have mixed up unnecessary distractions into your goal of Krishna. Your critical requirement of recognition of as Brahmana is a distraction.

     

    Here he goes again. Nowhere on any of the threads of the last week have I claimed recognition as a Brahmana a requirement towards the "goal of Krsna".

     

    (Set to merry-go-round instrumentals)

    Round and Round she goes, where she'll stop nobody knows.

     

    Have fun beating up your straw men Herr Fuhrer. They are the only ones you can defeat. This time I am finished with the only actual thing that can distract me from my goal of serving Krsna. "Discussing" with YOU.


  10.  

    Nothing here says varna is not decided by birth and I am unclear on Kulpavana's position on the matter anyway, though to his credit his posts appear far more level-headed than most people here.

     

    Parashurama's anger at Karna on the bee incident. Let us hear the opponents out on this one.

     

    Cheers

     

    You have got to be kidding. These quotes implicitly imply exactly that.

     

    Look there are 2 varnas for each person. The varna their birth parents are acting within (by behavioral quality hopefully), and the varna they are naturally inclined to according to wisdom they may have gained in past births.

     

    If they EVER do not match up, which is PROVEN time and time again to be an exceptional but real occurance, those who repeat the mantra "Varna By Birth Only", sound like blithering idiots.

     

    Is that what you want? To blither like an idiot every day on this forum, despite herculean efforts of others to explain to you from a multitude of angular examples and quote after quote from scripture which plainly explains it? Do you even recognize that all these continued attempts to answer your questions, even amidst the frustrated jabs and ad-hominem attacks due to your stubborness, display the brahminical quality of Tolerance that has been extended toward you from people who were born into a non-varnasrama culture?


  11.  

    The daiva varnasrama paradigm is not incorrect. It is for those on a low level of devotional service like most of the Western devotees (us). But it is your interpretation of what Prabhupada said that is incorrect. An aspiring Vaisnava who is attracted to someone like Srila Prabhupada and the Caitanyite conception of Krsna he is giving is not really in ignorance. But because of external conditioning he may be in the habit of working as a sudra such as a laborer. So although from a material viewpoint he may appear to be digging a ditch to lay plumbing for a devotional project, if he is doing this to please a bonafide guru and Krsna then he is not really in tama guna and he is gradually being elevated by his Krsna karma yoga.

     

    That is actually what he meant. For example Srila Prabhupada comments on Arjuna's ignorance. But we know he was under Yoga Maya. So I think does RCB. Of course a sudra may fall from his pure following as easily as one inclined to higher varna, and thus drop to mixed devotion.

     

    There must be a fine line as to when and where a devotee is influenced by Maha Maya and Yoga Maya. I was reading in the Gita, 7th chapter, of how Yoga Maya covered those in assembly during Sisupala's challenge from being able to recognize Krishna as more than an extraordinary man.

     

    It is also interesting how the gradual elevation in adhikari seems to parellel the advancement in varna, at least during sadhana bhakti.

     

    Then there is a MahaJnana like Lord Yamaraja born in a Sudra family but displaying the utmost in brahminical qualities.

     

    Such a rich philosophy.


  12.  

    The authocratic system of regional secretaries, sannyasis, GBCs, nominated temple presidents, was fully in place by 1977. Don't tell me Prabhupada created a democratic system of elected managers. For example: NONE of the GBCs was ever elected in Prabhupada's times as the DOM required - Prabhupada appointed all of them.

    Sorry Kiddo, read the definitions below. Based on what Prabhupada asked them to do, and stated was their parameters, it is a travesty to conclude that he authorized an Autocratic system of management.

     

    Each manager was to be limited in the scope of their purview, subject to various restrictions and oversight, and NEVER SELF APPOINTED.

     

    The fact that some usurped power and formed an autocracy is irrelevant.

    The neophytes you attract with your watered down Prabhupada imitation will beat you over the head at the first chance and do the same.

     

    Wikipedia: An autocracy is a form of government in which the political power is held by a single, self-appointed ruler. The term autocrat is derived from the Greek word 'αυτοκράτωρ (lit. "self-ruler", or "he who rules by one's self")

     

    Random House Dictionary:

     

    1. an absolute ruler, esp. a monarch who holds and exercises the powers of government as by inherent right, not subject to restrictions.

     

    2. a person invested with or claiming to exercise absolute authority.

     

    3. a person who behaves in an authoritarian manner; a domineering person.

     

    Webster's Dictionary:

     

    1. a ruler with absolute power; dictator; despot

    2. anyone having unlimited power over others

    3. any domineering, self-willed person

     

     

     

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  13.  

     

     

    mred1.jpg

    Sometimes you have to have a very sharp knife to cut through illusion.

    And BTW, I prefer to read Srila Prabhupada's books the way they were when he entered samadhi. I just don't believe, based on changes in language, that people will speak the language that they are in, in a few thousands years. That doesn't mean I want the books changed now and I don't care for what Jayadvaita has done.

     

     

     

     

    The truth however is so simple even a dull blade like me can slice off a taste of it.

     

    One need not be a Precognitive Prognosticator to see the future.

     

    History is His-Story. Who is He? The Survivor. The Ruling Class. So wherever in an English speaking country such as USA that Srila Prabhupada's books become the center of culture, in that region, the Rulers will gather up all the standard English textbooks and pass on English. And so will their kids. Why must it stop? Same goes for Germany, France, Peru, etc.

     

    If other areas of the world, or even in the good old USA itself go down the tubes and must monkey their way up from primordial ooze once again, when the Sankirtana parties find them, and if the monkeys are inquisitive, the Vaisnava's can voluntarily learn their language, like good missionaries would, and then translate Srila Prabhupada's books for them.

     

    Why the hubbub Bub?

     

    My diagonsis narrows it down to a few possibilites.

     

    "DADS" : Dreaded Acarya Disease Syndrome.

     

    Acaryitis : inability to grasp simple concepts due to stiffening of the tendoncies.

     

    Or maybe Tachacardya, a Hardening of the Heartery?

     

    Treatment : Just read Srila Prabhupada's original books in order once through.

     

    Prognosis : If treatment is followed, no material disease can withstand the Mercy.


  14.  

    Originally Posted by raghu

    Since I did not get any answers, and since the only responses were once again evasive, let me again put forth the questions. I really do not understand what is so childish about asking these questions. Yes, I know, I'm a new kid, i'm evil, i'm a bigot, etc. But please, can we have a focused discussion?

    Now that you asked nicely...

     

    1) The disciples of Prabhupada who are currently gurus - are they all brahmins? Yes or no?

    If a disciple of my Srila Prabhupada is currently a Guru, they definitely display the qualities of brahmana, regardless of what caste they were born to.

     

    If you are referring to those who were disciples of His for sometime, then disobeyed his orders and claim Guru status to use and abuse others, then it is a shame that you would insult my intelligence by asking what I thought of this. Which in any even leads us to your next question..

     

    2) The disciples of Prabhupada who were formerly gurus but then fell down - were they brahmins? Yes or No?

    There is no such thing as a "former" Guru. A Guru is eminently qualified by his ability to divulge to another the Science behind becoming Krsna Conscious. Anyone able to do so does not lose such an ability.

     

    By the way, this question demonstrates your presumption and laziness in not educating yourself, for if you had investigated before opening your mouth you would have discovered that Srila Prabhupada himself said by virtue of what a Guru is, there is no such thing as a "fallen" or "former" Guru.

     

    This covers the rest of that senseless question. Next..

    3) If the disciples of Prabhupada who fell down were not gurus, then why did Prabhupada initiate them as brahmins? Did he (a) do so knowing that they were not brahmins, or (b) do so because he did not know if they were brahmins or not?

    The answer is C. He did so because they showed the minimum qualifications for being a Brahmana in Kali Yuga at the time, they were in the intellectual class, inquisitve and aurally receptive to Prabhupada.

     

    Most of them did not even have the first of the 12 qualifications of a brahmana, truthfullness in all circumstances, but some did.

     

    They approached a Gaudiya Spiritual Master and Vaisnava Bhakta (himself) submissively (at the time) and thus initiated them with mantra and brahmana thread in hopes that under his guidance they would cultivate their natural intellectual tendency into full truthfullness, knowledge of Vedas through education, pukka cleanliness, tolerance of others through coming to understand Paramatma, mental equilibrium, etc.

     

    The truth is though they were fallen from the beginning, some gradually began to develop further brahminical qualities under his guidance and the shelter of the Lord's holy name.

     

    Others remained intellectual with no truthfullness (Raksasa, et al.) and did the sinister deeds that Iskcon has become notorious for.

    4a) If the answer to question (3) is choice (a), then how do you rationalize giving initiations to a non-brahmin when you claim that one is only a brahmin based on conduct/qualification?

    Already covered, see above answer.

    4b) If the answer to question (3) is choice (b), then when even Prabhupada (whom you no doubt consider the topmost guru) could mistakenly identify someone as a brahmin, then how are other gurus supposed to correctly identify brahmins prior to initiation?

    You see Ragu my friend, you may have been born in an area of India where the Brahminical class is truthful (according to what knowledge they actually have), and even have retained remnants of some of the other good qualities of a Brahmana, but don't have the slightest idea of how you could identify the shadows of other varnas in we, the demons of the west, and mercifully tolerate our company while educating and cultivating us towards God Consciousness.

     

    Why? That is for you to figure out. Re-read Srila Prabhupada's Gita as it is for hints if you actually want to endear yourself to the Lord by sharing his mercy and uplifting fallen souls, as opposed to engaging in mundane humanitarian efforts, and offering Sri Murti puja items that he just plain doesn't need, which may keep you dutiful and sattvically inclined, but bereft of devotional fervor to save other's souls, and thus very impersonal.


  15. Of course he is attempting to minimize you and your effort. How else will the Big Ragu maintain the High Holy stature he imagines himself to have? His existence is so puny that all he can do is try to squeeze everyone else around him into even smaller morsels so he can convince himself he is King of the Hill.

     

    Unfortunately King Ragu is so lost in the sauce, that he swam up and bit the toe of a Bhakti Raja, thinking it was a meatball, and now is choking on the indigestion.


  16.  

    Haven't seen this kind of mastery on this forum since cbrahma. Truly beautiful.

     

    you shoulda seen me as a kid. not the sharpest knife in the drawer, though not the dullest. but still, I have been average joe my whole life, and only when I repeat the essence of what my Srila Prabhupada relayed to me do I ever really feel in the zone.

     

    It is up for grabs man, I am livin proof. Just gotta be willing to take what is offered. Thanks for the recognition. Hare Krsna


  17. Well, since all those languages are well standardized, as any horse with sense would agree, then the only way those standards will become obsolete is through some type of genocide or armageddon scenario.

     

    Unless you consider the addition of a handful of coloquial slang words to our dictionaries in the English speaking country of America to be enough to radically change the essential etymology of English to make Srila Prabhupada's books illegible in the future on this land.

     

    Or do you think that a handful of mutant geniuses will merge ebonics, gutter slang, and a few other words they just "invent" and then impose their literary system upon your children, my children, and the rest of the reasonable population of America, thus rendering the Standard English of today obsolete.

     

    Sorry, as long as reasonable, non-mutants pass on Standard English grammer and vocabulary, our descendents will utilize it just fine thank you very much.

     

    You are just making yourself look silly. Cease and Desist!


  18.  

    We were talking primarily about the authocratic management system he put in place. After some 40 years there is plenty of evidence it does not work. And that is why I say it needs to be changed. Not that somehow all of his instructions need to be changed. When examining failures you must look both at the plans and their execution to determine the problem.

    Jeeze Kula, you are good. You caught me before at the beginning of this thread with your comment stating that SP created a a "top down autocratic management system"

    I agreed with you not reading carefully, only paying attention to the "top down part", which is the nature of any authoritative management structure, but is a different animal with the addition of "Autocracy."

    After reading your last post, I said to myself "where is he getting this bit about autocracy?" That was when I looked back and saw how you snuck one by me.

    He never did anything of the sort. Look up the definition of Autocracy.

    A bunch of Zoned out Acaryas created an Autocratic system after Srila Prabhupada left, and suckered YOU into supporting it.

    You could never in a million years show evidence that SP ever authorized that anyone in Iskcon "Self appoint" their Self to any position and exclusively rule over others.

    No wonder you rail against his system. You don't even know what it was really meant to be! Do your homework, polish me up a nice apple, and comeback tomorrow morning and I'd be happy to discuss the truth of the matter.

    Hare Krsna


  19. Nice try. For over a Century a standard Common English has developed and been spread throughout the entire world, on every continent.

     

    Standard.

     

    Common.

     

    Srila Prabhupada was educated in this Standard.

     

    His literary masterpieces were Signed Sealed and Delivered in that Standard.

     

    You are just begging for a chance to be recognized for something YOUnique.

     

    Ain't gonna happen lest thou fallest upon thine head and let loose the dogs of thy ignorance, thus bequeathing upon some unsuspecting souls a narrow cult derived from the bowels of thy mundane misery.

     

    Class Dismissed.


  20.  

    all the power to you and other secret leaders Prabhupada appointed but kept hidden so that they can come out 40 years later to save his movement... I only wonder why he has not made you leaders from the very beginning?

     

    Again, broaden your mind.

     

    Is it not a possibility that some of the Bhatkas who are currently capable of leading an Iskcon Harinama Sankirtana Outpost wern't even BORN in 1967?

     

    Do you still imagine He had so many monkeys (though Dear to Him servants) handing out millions of books so that Lord Krsna as Paramatma would make sure they ONLY collect dust on shelves?

     

    What apa-Iskcon is doing right now is no longer recognizable as His Movement to anyone with a shred of brain matter. There is nothing to save. There is a Spiritual Movement that is continuing to influence hearts and minds of the sincere, and manifests in small ways as each person influenced shares a plate of prasadam with one or more others of like mind, or engages in Hari Katha on an internet forum, or meets for a rare but occasional Harinama. This movement will not dwindle, but only grow and organize carefully and properly under the guidance of the Iskcon DVD management system, while the apa-Iskcon Guru's cheerleaders, and their shadowy "reform in the name of change" counterparts fiddle while their empires and mini-fiefdoms burn to dust.


  21.  

    Some believe that for a ten thousand year period that Srila Prabhupada will be the only Acarya, inititating guru and that in the year 3976, for instance, English speakers will read his books exactly as they appeared in English in the 1970's some two thousand years earlier.

     

    DADS is a serious disease, can't expect it to be cured in one or two posts.

     

    Srila Prabhupada will always be the FOUNDER-ACARYA of Iskcon. Always, 10000 years 100000 years, is irrelevant.

     

    Any Acarya claiming to represent HIM will be the ideal teacher (acarya) according to SP's ideals. And being SP's disciple, will not disobey SP's orders on any given issue, as a part and parcel of being the ideal teacher (acarya) and teaching by example.

     

    Initiation was carried out in the past, when Srila Prabhupada's Vapu was not physically present in the same 1000 mile geographic location, according to his Vani Presence (order for his disciples to initiate on his behalf), and he actually formalized this system just before his Vapu dissappeared, calling it Ritvik henceforward, and ORDERED NO CHANGE IN MANAGMENT, even a 10 year old can see where this will go, naturally.

     

    And as far as English. What is your problem. Srila Prabhpada's English is not good enough for you? The english language will evolve past the standard of centuries immortalized by Webster and Roget? More change planned? The people who speak English in 4567 AD will suddenly not be able to understand Srila Prabhupada's perfect English?

     

    FREEZE Beggar. Your jig is up.

    You are surrounded by the truth. No more false moves.

     

    I want you to very slowly PUT THE PEN DOWN.

     

    Now get on your knees, and put your hands in front of your head. In front of a picture of Srila Prabhupada of course.

     

    And please remember, don't shoot the messenger.

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