leyh

Satyaraja dasa,I think the punishment that Srila Prabhupada spoke of is referring to the suffering imposed upon us by the laws of nature if we embrace the atheistic materialism that prevents us from being liberated from the bondages of the material world.Srila Prabhupada would never have instructed his followers to engage acts of terrorism.Please,please stop taking cheap shots at Srila Prabhupada.You have nothing to gain by making foolish and reckless statements. [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 09-12-2001).]

I really wonder how His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada would have reacted to the attacks on New York City and the Pentagon.....

Such an act of terrorism can never be religious.Demonic should be the proper term for it.

HAVE YOU NO COMPASSION???

I appreciate your presence on the forum too

Why read Srila Prabhupada's books?Because through them we can associate with him even when his physical presence is no longer around.I know it sounds like such a cliche,but Srila Prabhupada really does live on in his books.He continues to preach to me and th the whole human society through his books. "The spiritual master lives forever by his divine instruction and the disciple lives with him." It is such a beautiful thing that because I have daily access to his words through the Internet and his books,there is not a single day when I do not have access to Srila Prabhupada.I do not dare to lay claim to discipleship,but still I am endeavouring to associate with Srila Prabhupada through his words...All Glories to Srila Prabhupada who has graciously written so many books for the whole world!

Two people went to the temple area to pray; one was a Pharisee and the other was a tax collector. The Pharisee took up his position and spoke this prayer to himself, 'O God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of humanity --- greedy, dishonest, adulterous --- or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week, and I pay tithes on my whole income.' "But the tax collector stood off at a distance and would not even raise his eyes to heaven but beat his breast and prayed, 'O God, be merciful to me, a sinner.' "I tell you the latter went home justified, not the former; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and the one who humbles himself will be exalted." (Jesus Christ in the Gospel of Luke, Chapter 18:10-14) [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 09-09-2001).]

Two people went to the temple area to pray; one was a Pharisee and the other was a tax collector. The Pharisee took up his position and spoke this prayer to himself, 'O God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of humanity --- greedy, dishonest, adulterous --- or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week, and I pay tithes on my whole income.' "But the tax collector stood off at a distance and would not even raise his eyes to heaven but beat his breast and prayed, 'O God, be merciful to me, a sinner.' "I tell you the latter went home justified, not the former; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and the one who humbles himself will be exalted." (Jesus Christ in the Gospel of Luke, Chapter 18:10-14) [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 09-09-2001).]

Dear Audarya lila dasa and amanpeter prabhu: I thank the both of you for so intelligently commenting on the science of Krsna Consciousness.

Dear living entity,I didn't say that it is a cliche that Prabhupada is there in His books.I said it "sounds" like a cliche because it has been repeated so many times that maybe people have forgotten how marvellous it is that Srila Prabhupada is actually THERE in his writings,waiting to PREACH to the whole human society.Just my humble opinion...

Dear Jndas, thank you very much for taking the scriptural references. Do you mean that the "purifiying effect" is possible only for pure devotees,or do you mean devotees in general?In other words,if a devotee is not a pure devotee,can the family members and friends who associate him be benefitted?

Can the family members of Krsna devotees somehow benefit even if they do not take to Krsna Consciousness? If so,in what ways can they benefit?

In what ways can Krsna Consciousness be considered a science?

I feel that arguing over whether or not Srila Prabhupada was ordered by his Guru Maharaja to preach in the West or not will not benefit our spiritual lives at all. He came, he chanted, he conquered, and today, the whole human society is still enjoying the fruits of his victory.Why don't we just enjoy the feast that His Divine Grace has laid out for us and stop quabbling over how the prasadam was prepared.

What beautiful words... All Glories to the Blue Lord!

Oh my Krsna...am I seeing things? Random...making posts like the above is disgraceful.There is no excuse for making such posts. Srila Prabhupada was once asked by a TV interviewer, "How would I be able to tell a devotee of Krsna?" Srila Prabhupada replied:"He would be a perfect gentleman." If we are endeavouring to be devotees of Krsna, we should also endeavour to be like perfect gentlemen. [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 09-07-2001).]

Dear Random Axis: Why do you have to sound so sarcastic? I don't get it...Does it cause you immense agony to even attempt to be humble?

Dear Sirona: If Srila Prabhupada had a stone cold heart, he would have stayed in India. Instead, he risked his very life to come to The United States of America to preach the message of Krsna Consciousness to the whole human society.Srila Prabhupada spent so much time and energy translating and writing books to benefit others.He was also a compassionate globe-trotter. He travelled all over the world conversing and preaching to so many people from different walks of life. He lovingly chastised his disciples when there were mistakes and warmly glorified when theere was devotion.He dedicated so much of his life to Krsna and humanity...you insult the memory of such a great soul by defaming his mission and accusing him of spreading hate when all he ever wanted to do was to spread love of Godhead and all living entities.I sincerely request you to carefully study the life, teachings and mission of Srila Prabhupada. [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 09-05-2001).]

A sign that I should pay more attention to the spell-check...

"A true understanding and humble estimate of oneself is the highest and most valuable of all lessons. To take no account of oneself, but always to think well and highly of another person is the highest wisdom and perfection. Should you see another person openly doing evil, or carrying out a wicked purpose, do not on that account consider yourself better than him, for you cannot tell how long you will remain in a state of grace. We are all frail; consider none more frail than yourself." (Imitation of Christ, by Thomas A Kempis, Book One, Chapeter 2: On Personal Humility)

Dear Random Axis: Geoffery Giuliano is not my idol.But you may be right about me having "strange" idols.My list of idols includes a youth who is eternally young and spends a lot of time playing his flute,an eldery swami who started an international spiritual movement by chanting the holy names of God under a tree and a man who voluntarily allowed himself to be crucified.These three might be "strange" to the worldly,but I am very fond of them...and I'm sure they enjoy quite a large following too... [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 09-02-2001).]

Dear Gauracandra: I don't know whether you're aware of this,but Geoffery Giuliano is a devotee of Krsna and he has now legally changed his name to Jagannatha Dasa and runs a Vaishnava Ashram in Lockport, New York. His book Dark Horse:The Life and Art of George Harrison has a knowledgeable and favourable portrayal of the Vaishnava tradition and the Hare Krsna Movement. Maybe he is misguided in his putting of George Harrison's spiritual life in the limelight,but I don't think its for profit motive.It seems to me that Geoffery Giuliano is utilizing George's fame to promote Krsna Consciousness.Geoffery Giuliano has also said in an interview that he had written the book Dark Horse as "a wake up call for Mr. Harrison." A transcript of the interview(in which Giuliano explains his spiritual beliefs and his opinions about George Harrison) can be found at http://www.eskimo.com/~cathy/hariontour/ggiuliano.htm [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 09-02-2001).]

Dear random axis: a)Just because Srila Prabhupada instructed Hayagriva to edit his words on one or a few occasions (I don't know)is not a general "licence to edit".How do you know that the conversation with George Harrison was edited with Srila Prabhupada's approval? b)I will be the first person to admit that I do not know much about Srila Prabhupada, but how do you know that I "just want to fault find his disciples"? I am concerned with the purity of the recording of Srila Prabhupada's words and I am indeed mystified as to how you came to the conclusion that I had something against Srila Prabhupada's disciples...please explain...

Somehow I don't think Srila Prabhupada would approve of his recorded words being edited. [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 09-02-2001).]

There has apparently been a discrepancy (changes?) where Srila Prabhupada's words were recorded/written down. I discovered this when I recently discovered two different versions of conversation transcripts that Srila Prabhupada had with George Harrison.Sometime ago,I posted the folowing excerpt from Dark Horse:The Life and Art of George Harrison by Geoffery Giuliano on this forum: George Harrison: I seem to keep going around in circles. Maybe it has something to do with me being a Pisces, one fish going this way and one going that way. I have periods where I can't stop chanting and other times where I turn into a demon and forget to chant. A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada: You are not a demon, you are demigod! Somehow or other you were attracted to Krishna, so let Him help you. George: I'm reading the Gita. I read it over and over, just one section again and again. Srila Prabhupada: All the instructions are there. So, this is your duty now. By the grace of Krishna you are a very great personality. You are a young man, but Krishna has blessed you with such a high position, there are many young men who follow you. George: In a way, when you really commit yourself to something it's like putting your head on the chopping block. Someone can turn around and chop it off, or you're lucky, and it doesn't get chopped off. I find the more commitment I make, even though it's a small one, I find it provokes bad reactions. Srila Prabhupada: There is a saying, "If one is foolish and you give him good instruction he will become angry." Has it happened like that? George: I feel a little animosity from people. In some ways the more committed you are, and the stronger you are in what you do, the stronger the animosity. Sometimes I get the feeling there's one person to whom it means something real and ten it doesn't mean anything to. I'm not sure how it all balances out. Devotee: If you reach one person it's worth it. George: But what if you don't reach anyone? If you only reach one person and by reaching that one twenty people are annoyed. Srila Prabhupada: Yes, preaching is very difficult. When one preaches, he must tell the truth. Just like Jesus Christ, people didn't like his preaching but he did not stop. That is another point. In preaching there is always the possibility of creating animosity. By the way, I have heard your new album, 'Living in the Material World' is being appreciated by many people. George: There is one song in particular which was a direct result of the conversation we had when you came to my home and we talked about fame and fortune. Srila Prabhupada: People are seeking after something spiritually enlightening. Especially in the Western World, that is a fact. Sometimes though people become angry. We have no reason to make enemies, we are simply teaching love. George: There is one problem I've found when chanting, I start beginning to relate less and less to the people I know. I suddenly found myself on such a different level where it's really hard to relate. It feels as though I'm at a point where I should slow down or pull back towards those people in order to take them with me. The building up of the mantra and it's effect is so subtle. There's a point where I can't relate to anyone anymore. Maybe you don't have that experience. Devotee: George is saying that when he chants he becomes spiritualized so it's difficult for him to relate to his business associates. George: Not even that, my friends, my wife, anybody! Srila Prabhupada: Your wife is very nice. She's a nice girl. George: Yes she is, she's an angel. Srila Prabhupada: Your wife is intersted in Krishna Consciousness, that is a very great advantage. George: What happens is if I'm not into it too deeply, I'll come down to begin the day and be quite nice and off we go. The periods where I'm so deeply into chanting all the time I'll come down and I'm like Ravana . I'm not smiling, and I'm not particularly happy. It's like there's more urgency involved. Perhaps it's the realization that everybody's wasting their time doing mundane things. Devotee: But while you were chanting you wrote these beautiful songs and it's proven by everyone purchasing them that they want to hear that. George: The problem is where to find the balance, because obviously I know where I benefit from doing that. However, I'm benefiting so much that suddenly I'm out on a limb and it's hard to pull those people along with you. There's a point where suddenly I'm not going to know them anymore. Devotee: George says it's difficult when you become spiritualized by chanting. He feels it's a dangerous position because he will be cut off from his audience, the ordinary people. He's afraid they will not understand him and he will not be able to take them with him to that point. Srila Prabhupada: Yes, keep your balance. Don't spoil your position. Regarding your talent, it is not ordinary. You are getting money. It is not that you should refuse it. Our policy is not that you don't touch money. Krishna says we should do so many things and money allows one to do so. George: We've just been making some music in California and one of the songs (it's Ravi Shankar's music) is based on the ten incarnations of Vishnu. It's a beautiful song. But I was wondering why there isn't anything in the lyrics concerning Krishna? Srila Prabhupada: Krishna is not an incarnation, rather, Krishna is the origin of all incarnations. His incarnations are called "avatar" but He is "avatari". Therefore the song is a prayer to Krishna. It was composed by a great Vaisnava poet. George: There is one song, it is simple and beautiful. It's in English and only has three lines. "I am missing you, Krishna, where are you? Though I can't see you I hear you flute all the while. Please come wipe my tears and make me smile." It's so sweet I'm sure it's going to be very popular. Srila Prabhupada: When I entered this room I said, "All glories to George Harrison!" You have given us this center and Krishna will surely give you shelter at his lotus feet. You are very nice and sincere. George: The Krishna Consciousness Movement is getting so big there's going to be a point where its going to need such fantastic management... At the moment we have Prabhupada who is the figure-head which everyone can draw energy from. Sooner or later though, everybody's going to be out there on their own and carry out what they've learned. Devotee: We'll always rely on our spiritual master, even if he is no longer with us. We'll always take our strength from him. George: I must go but I'll be back very quickly. Srila Prabhupada: You are going alone or is someone going with you? George: I go alone...Well a little bit of you will be with me! Srila Prabhupada: My blessings to your wife. Thank you very much for your kindness. According to Giuliano: "Amazingly, on September of 1996 a tape recording of a conversation between Harrison and Prabhupada was found at the bottom of an old cardboard box in North Carolina. Intensely interesting due to the confidential tone of the talk George seems to let loose a torrent of emotion as regards both his sagging homelife and devotional practice." The chapter from which the above conversation was quoted can be found online at http://www.geoffrey-giuliano.com/on-line.html I found another version that I found at the Bhaktivedanta Archives (www.prabhupada.com) Conversation with George Harrison at Bhaktivedanta Manor, 1973: Syamasundara: Anyway, the translation is, "Whatever action is performed by a great man, common men follow in his footsteps. And whatever standards he sets by exemplary acts, all the world pursues." Prabhupada: So this is your duty now. (laughs) By the grace of Krsna you are one of the great men. Although you are young man, but Krsna has placed you in such a high position that there are many young men who follows you. So that is the instruction. George: There is some? You know, Syamasundara and I were talking just on the way here, and it's like when you commit yourself to something, in a way it's like putting your head on the chopping block. Because people, you know, somebody can turn around and chop it off or it may be lucky and, you know, it doesn't get chopped off. Prabhupada: No, it is not chopping off. George: I find that this, um, the more commitment that you make, or that I make, even though it's such a little commitment, I mean, relatively speaking it's such a little one. Now I'm getting in the area where I find that people are? It provokes, um? Prabhupada: Thoughts. George: Well, sometimes it provokes bad reaction. Prabhupada: Accha? Syamasundara: Sometimes people become agitated by his words. Prabhupada: Oh. Murkhaya upadeso hi prakopaya santaya. There is a verse that if one is foolish, if you give him good instruction he becomes angry. Just like the example is given, payah-panam bhujanganam kevalam visa-vardhanam. If you keep a snake and if you give him milk the result will be that his poison will be increased. Payah-panam bhujanganam kevalam visa-vardhanam. So sometimes it happens that ah, if one is foolish, if you give him good advice he becomes angry. Murkhaya upadeso hi prakopaya santaya. But, has it happened like that? No, I don't think so. George: I, you know, you can feel, I can feel a little animosity comes from people who, I don't know for what reason, but people? Syamasundara: Envious maybe. Prabhupada: Envious. George: I don't know which is, in some ways the more committed you are to the thing and the stronger that you are in what you do then the stronger the animosity becomes. Prabhupada: Yes, the other side. George: And I'm not sure if? You know, sometimes I get the feeling that maybe there's one person who it means something real to and ten people who it doesn't mean anything to. And I'm not sure how it, if it all balances out in the end whether... Syamasundara: Well, that one person though, if you reach one person he is worth all of them. George: But say you don't reach any people, and then you have a choice of reaching people and you only reach one, but in, by reaching that one you have twenty people who are annoyed. You know, how do you?? Prabhupada: Yes, sometimes it happens. Syamasundara: His question is that if you preach and you see many men, you meet many men. You may make? If you meet ten men you may make nine of them enemies and only one will become helped by your preaching. So how is that? George: But if you don't say anything then maybe with all the ten of them are quite friendly. Syamasundara: Is that? How is that beneficial? Prabhupada: Yes, the preaching is different, you see. When one preaches he must tell the truth. Just like Lord Jesus Christ. The people did not like his preaching but he did not stop his preaching. That is another point. You see? So in the preaching propaganda there is possibility of creating animosity. Same conversation, different words...can anyone explain this?