leyh

Just thirty minutes before he had to leave for the airport, Swamiji sat in his room chanting on the beads of a girl who had asked to be initiated. Then, as he had done many times before, he left his apartment, went downstairs, crossed the courtyard and entered the storefront. Sitting on the old carpet, he spoke quietly and personally. “I am going, but my Guru Maharaja and Bhaktivinoda are here.” He looked toward the paintings of his spiritual master and Bhaktivinoda Thakura. “I have asked them to kindly take care of all of you, my spiritual children. The grandfather always takes care of the children much better than the father. So do not fear. There is no question of separation. The sound vibration fixes us up together, even though the material body may not be there. What do we care for the material body? Just go on chanting Hare Krsna, and we will be packed up together. You will be chanting here, and I will be chanting there and this vibration will circulate around this planet.” Several devotees rode with Swamiji in the taxi --- Brahmananda in the front with the driver, Raya Rama and Kirtanananda in the back with their spiritual master. “when Kirtanananda sees Vrndavana, “ Swamiji said, “he will not be able to understand how I could have left that place and come to this place. It is so nice. There are no motorcars there like here, rushing whoosh! whoosh! And smelling. Only there is Hare Krsna. Everybody always chanting. Thousands and thousands of temples. I will show you, Kirtanananda. We will walk all about there, and I will show you.” Brahmananda began to cry, and Swamiji patted him on the back. “I can understand that you are feeling separation, “he said. “I am feeling for my Guru Maharaja. I think this is what Krsna desires. You may be coming there to me and be training up, and we will spread this movement all over the world. Raya Rama --- you will go to England. Brahmananda --- you want to go to Russia or Japan? That’s all right.” The devotees converged on the Air-India waiting room, near a crowded cocktail lounge. Wearing a sweater, his cadar folded neatly over one shoulder, Swamiji sat in a chair, while his disciples sat as closely as possible around his feet. He held an umbrella, just as when he had first come alone to New York almost two years ago. Although exhausted, he was smiling. Swamiji noted a mural of Indian women carrying large jars on their heads, and he called the name of a young girl who had recently gone with her husband, Hamsaduta, to join the ISKCON center in Montreal. “Himavati, would you like to go to India and learn to carry this waterpot like the Indian women?” “Yes, yes,” she said. “I’ll go.” “Yes, “ Swamiji said, “some day we will all go.” Kirtanananda was carrying a portable battery-operated phonograph and two copies of the Hare Krsna mantra record. “Kirtanananda, “Swamiji asked, “why not play the record? They will enjoy.” Kirtanananda played the record very softly, its sound catching the attention of people in the cocktail lounge. “Make it a little louder,” Swamiji asked, and Kirtanananda increased the volume, while Swamiji nodded his head, keeping time. Soon the devotees began humming along with the record, and then quietly singing loudly. Some of the devotees began to cry. When the time came to board the plane, Swamiji embraced each of his men. They stood in a line, and one after another approached him and embraced him. He patted a few of the women on the head. Accompanied by Kirtanananda, whose head was shaven and who wore an incongruous black woolen suit, Swamiji walked slowly toward the gate. As he disappeared from view, the devotees ran for the observation deck to get a last look at his departing plane. A gentle rain was washing the airfield as the devotees raced across the wet observation deck. There below were Swamiji and Kirtanananda, walking toward their plane. Abandoning decorum, the devotees began to shout. Swamiji turned and waved. He climbed the movable stairway, turning again at the top and raising his arms, and then entered the plane. The devotees chanted wildly while the boarding steps moved away, the door closed, and the plane began to turn. The devotees had pressed close to the rail, but they pulled back as the jet exhaust blasted them with the heat. With a great roar the Air-India jet, lights blinking, taxied out to the runway. The devotees continued to chant Hare Krsna until the plane left the ground, became a speck in the sky, and then disappeared. (Prabhupada --- The Authorized Biography by Satsvarupa dasa Goswami,Chapter Three: Only He Could Lead Them)

San Francisco January 16, 1967 When the announcement for United Airlines Flight 21 from New York came over the public-address system, the group of about fifty hippies gathered closer together in anticipation. For a moment, they appeared almost apprehensive, unsure of what to expect or what the Swami would be like. Roger Segal: We were quite an assorted lot, even for the San Francisco airport. Mukunda was wearing a Merlin the Magician robe with paisley squares all around, Sam was wearing a Moroccan sheep robe with a hood --- he even smelled like a sheep --- and I was wearing a sort of blue home-made Japanese samurai robe with small white dots. Long strings of beads were everywhere. Buckskins, boots, army fatigues, people wearing small, round sunglasses --- the whole phantasmagoria of San Francisco at its height. Only a few people in the crowd knew Swamiji: Mukunda and his wife Janaki; Ravindra-svarupa; Raya Rama --- all from New York. And Allen Ginsberg was there. (A few days before, Allen had been one of the leaders of the Human Be-In in Golden Gate Park, where over two hundred thousand had come together --- “A Gathering of the Tribes…for a joyful pow-wow and Peace Dance.”) Swamiji would be pleased, Mukunda reminded everyone, if they were all chanting Hare Krsna when he came through the gate. They were already familiar with the Hare Krsna mantra. They had heard about the Swami’s chanting in the park in New York or they had seen the article about Swamiji and the chanting in the local underground newspaper, The Oracle. Earlier today they had gathered in Golden Gate Park --- most of them responding to a flyer Mukunda had distributed --- and had chanted there for more than an hour before coming to the airport in a caravan of cars. Now many of them --- also in response to Mukunda’s flyer --- stood with incense and flowers in their hands. As the disembarking passengers entered the terminal gate and walked up the ramp, they looked in amazement at the reception party of flower-bearing chanters. The chanters, however, gazed past these ordinary, tired-looking travelers, searching for that special person that was supposed to be on the plane. Suddenly, walking toward them was Swamiji, golden-complexioned, dressed in bright saffron robes. He had heard the chanting even before he had entered the terminal, and he had begun to smile. He was happy and surprised. Glancing over the faces, he recognized only a few. Yet here were fifty people receiving him and chanting Hare Krsna without his having said a word! The crowd of hippies had formed a line on either side of a narrow passage through which Swami would walk. As he passed among his new admirers, dozens of hands stretched out to offer him flowers and incense. He smiled, collecting the offerings in his hands while Rancora looked on. Allen Ginsberg stepped forward with a large bouquet of flowers,a nd Bhaktivedanta Swami graciously accepted it. Then he began offering the gifts to all who reached out to receive them. He proceeded through the terminal, the crowd of young people walking beside him, chanting. At the baggage claim he waited for a moment, his eyes taking in everyone around him. Lifting his open palms, he beckoned everyone to chant louder, and the group burst into renewed chanting, with the Swami standing in their midst, softly clapping his hands and singing Hare Krsna. Gracefully, he then raised his hands above his head and began to dance, stepping and swaying from side to side. To the mixed chagrin, amusement, and irresistible joy of the airport workers and passengers, the reception party stayed with the Swami until he got his luggage. Then they escorted him outside into the sunlight and into a waiting car, a black 1949 Cadillac Fleetwood. Swamiji got into the back seat with Mukunda and Allen Ginsberg. Until the moment the car pulled away from the curb, Swamiji, still smiling, continued handing flowers to all those who had come to welcome him as he brought Krsna consciousness west.(From Prabhupada --- The Authorized Biography by Satsvarupa dasa Goswami,Chapter Three: Only He Could Lead Them)

Krsnacandra prabhu: I'm glad you enjoyed reading that excerpt. You can try http://www.iskcon.net/prabhupada/where you can find stories about Srila Prabhupada told in words and pictures, mainly from the Srila Prabhupada Lilamrita by Satsvarupa Das Goswami. [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 10-03-2001).]

The summer evening was warm, and in the storefront the back windows and front door were opened wide. Young men, several of them dressed in black denims and button-down sports shirts with broad, dull stripes, had left their worn sneakers by the front door and were now sitting on the floor. Most of them were from the Lower East Side; no one had to go to great trouble to come here. The little room was barren. No pictures, no furniture, no rug, not even a chair. Only a few plain straw mats. A single bulb hung from the ceiling into the center of the room. It was seven o’clock, and about a dozen people had gathered, when Bhaktivedanta Swami suddenly opened a side door and entered the room. He wasn’t wearing a shirt and the saffron cloth that draped his torso left his arms and some of his chest bare. His complexion was smooth golden brown, and as they watched him, his head shaven, his ears long-lobed, and his aspect grave, he seemed like pictures they had seen of the Buddha in meditation. He was old, yet erect in his posture, fresh and radiant. His forehead was decorated with the yellowish clay markings of the Vaisnavas. Bhaktivedanta Swami recognized big, bearded Howard and smiled. “You have brought your friends? “ “Yes,” Howard answered in his loud, resonant voice. “Ah, very good.” Bhaktivedanta Swami stepped out of his white shoes, sat down on a thin mat, faced his congregation, and indicated they could all be seated. He distributed several pairs of brass cymbals and briefly demonstrated the rhythm: one … two…three. He began playing --- a startling ringing sound. He began singing: Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. Now it was the audience’s turn. “Chant,” he told them. Some already knew, gradually the others caught on, and after a few rounds, all were chanting together. Most of the young men and the few young women present had at one time or another embarked on the psychedelic voyage in search of a new world of expanded consciousness. Boldly and recklessly, they had entered the turbulent, forbidden waters of LSD, peyote, and magic mushrooms. Heedless of warnings, they had risked everything and done it. Yet there was merit in their valor, their eagerness to find out the extra dimensions of the self, to get beyond ordinary existence --- even if they didn’t know what the beyond was or whether they would ever return to the comfort of the ordinary. Nonetheless, whatever truth they had found, they remained unfulfilled, and whatever worlds they had reached, these young psychedelic voyagers had always returned to the Lower East Side. Now they were sampling the Hare Krsna mantra. When the kirtana suddenly sprang up from the Swami’s cymbals and sonorous voice, they immediately felt that it was going to be something far out. Here was another chance to “trip out,” and willingly they began to flow with it. They would surrender their minds and explore the limits of the chanting for all it was worth. Most of them had already associated the mantra with the mysterious Upanisads and Gita, which had called out to them in words of mystery: “Eternal spirit…Negating illusion.” But whatever it is, this Indian mantra, let it come, they thought. Let its waves carry us far and high. Let’s take it, and let the effects come. Whatever the price, let it come. The chanting seemed simple and natural enough. It was sweet and wasn’t going to harm anyone. It was, in its own way, far out. As Bhaktivedanta Swami chanted in his own inner ecstasy, he observed his motley congregation. He was breaking ground in a new land now. As the hand cymbals rang, the lead-and-response of the Hare Krsna mantra swelled, filling the evening. Some neighbours were annoyed. Puerto Rican children, enchanted, appeared at the door and window, looking. Twilight came. Exotic it was, yet anyone could see that a swami was raising an ancient prayer in praise of God. This wasn’t rock or jazz. He was a holy man, a swami making a public religious demonstration. But the congregation was strange: an old Indian swami chanting an ancient mantra with a storefront full of young hippies singing along. Bhaktivedanta Swami sang on, his shaven head held high and tilted, his body trembling slightly with emotion. Confidently, he led the mantra, absorbed in pure devotion, and they responded. More passersby were drawn to the front window and open door. Some jeered, but the chanting was too strong. Within the sound of the kirtana, even the car horns were a faint staccato. The vibration of auto engines and the rumble of trucks continued, but in the distance now, unnoticed. Gathered under the dim electric light in the bare room, the group chanted after their leader, growing gradually from a feeble, hesitant chorus to an approximate harmony of voices. They continued clapping and chanting, putting into it whatever they could, in hopes of discovering its secrets. This swami was not simply giving some five-minute sample demonstration. For the moment he was their leader, their guide in an unknown realm. Howard and Keith’s little encounter with a kirtana in Calcutta had left them outsiders. The chanting had never before come like this, right in the middle of the Lower East Side with a genuine Swami leading them. In their minds were psychedelic ambitions to see the face of God, fantasies and visions of Hindu teachings, and the presumption that “IT” was all impersonal light. Bhaktivedanta Swami had encountered a similar group on the Bowery and he knew this group wasn’t experiencing the mantra in the proper disciplined reverence and knowledge. But he let them chant in their own way. In time, their submission to the spiritual sound, their purification, and their enlightenment and ecstasy in chanting and hearing the Hare Krsna mantra would come. He stopped the kirtana. The chanting had swept back the world, but now the Lower East Side rushed in again. The children at the door began to chatter and laugh. Cars and trucks made their rumbling heard once more. And a voice shouted from the nearby apartment, demanding quiet. It was now 7:30. Half an hour had elapsed. (From Prabhupada --- The Authorized Biography by Satsvarupa dasa Goswami,Chapter Two:Planting the Seed) [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 10-03-2001).]

Satyaraja dasa: It seems to me that you are interested in conflict and not discussion.

Dear Jayaradhe dasi: I was really surprised and flattered when I saw your post.Thank you very much.I myself have always looked forward to reading your sensitive and intelligent posts,especially the ones about your experiences with Srila Prabhupada. I remember that in an earlier post,you responded to my enquiry as to whether you have ever had any personal association with Srila Prabhupada by writing that although you have not had close association with Srila Prabhupada,you have been "blessed with his glance".I'm sure that now,from wherever he is,Srila Prabhupada is still glancing at you and all the other aspiring devotees. All Glories to Jayaradhe dasi and her spiritual master His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada!

6.Ever Youthful Krsna is beautiful at His different ages ---namely His childhood,His boyhood and His youth.Out of these three,His youth is the reservoir of all pleasures and is the time when the highest varieties of devotional service are acceptable.At that age,Krsna is full with all transcendental qualities and is engaged in His transcendental pastimes.Therefore,devotees have accepted the beginning of His youth as the most attractive feature in ecstatic love. At this age Krsna is described as follows: "The force of Krsna's youth was combined with His beautiful smile,which defeated even the beauty of the full moon.He was always attracting the minds of the gopis,who were thereby always feeling pleasure."(From The Nectar of Devotion by His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada,Chapter Twenty One: Qualities of Sri Krsna)

WORLD MUSLIM CONGRESS By Dr. Malik S. Khan Permanent U.N. Representative, World Muslim Congress Email: motamar@hotmail.com According to the Quran, those who kill innocent people are doomed to eternal punishment (25:68-69). "Whosoever slays an innocent person ... it is as if he had slain humankind altogether." (5:32) The president of World Muslim Congress, H.E. Dr. Abdullah bin Omar Nasseef, Secretary-General Raja Zafarul Haq, Dr. Malik Sardar Khan, permanent U.N. representative and Executive Councillor, and the entire Executive Council and worldwide organization, the World Muslim Congress, and other international Islamic organizations and Islamic scholars. The Islamic scholar H.E. Salih bin Mohamed Al-lahiddan, Chairman of the Supreme Judicial Council of Saudi Arabia, has given the following beautiful statement, echoing the sentiments of Muslims around the world: "In the midst of the catastrophic events that have hit America, questions and queries have been raised as to how such acts are judged and interpreted by Shari`ah (Islamic law), which encompasses all things and gives clear rulings on every calamity: any calamity that affects humans has its ruling in Shari`ah. Many questions have been raised by officials and by the public as to the ruling of Shari`ah on such acts, and whether it is considered acceptable or permissible by Islamic scholars, who shoulder the responsibility of clarifying rulings and Islam’s point of view with respect to disasters. "Allah (God Almighty), the Master of all Rulers, has prohibited injustice among humans. Aggression against those who have committed no crime, and the killing of innocent people, are matters that Shari`ah has dealt with: these are not permissible even during wars and invasions. Killing the weak, infants, women, and the elderly, and destroying property, are considered serious crimes in Islam. Acts of corruption and even laying waste to the land are forbidden by Allah and His Prophet. Viewing on the TV networks what happened to the twin towers of the World Trade Center was like watching Doomsday. Those who commit such crimes are the worst of people. Anyone who thinks that any Islamic scholar will condone such acts is totally wrong. Aggression, injustice, and gloating over the kind of crime that we have seen are totally unacceptable and forbidden in Islam. "Allah says: ‘And let not the enmity and hatred of others make you avoid justice. Be just, that is nearer to piety." Inflicting a collective punishment is considered by Islam as despicable aggression and perversion. Killing innocent people is by itself a grave crime, quite apart from terrorizing and committing crimes against infants and women. Such acts do no honor to him who commits them, even if he claims to be a Muslim. These sorts of crimes are pernicious: in fact, Islamic scholars resolved to forbid such acts as hijacking planes, regardless of the religious belief of the passengers, whether Muslims or non-Muslims, since terrorizing any person is forbidden in Islam. "Islamic scholars deplore any criminal and corrupt act, irrespective of whether the perpetrators are Muslims or non-Muslims. Those who are truly versed in the fundamentals and reality of Islam know that such acts are crimes of endless hard. "Considering the numerous questions and queries that arise regarding such acts and our position as a Muslim judicial board, from an Islamic perspective, we view them as despicable. It has been narrated that the perpetrator alone shall carry the burden of his crimes. We have been telling the press that Muslims do not condone such brutal acts nor should they be held responsible for them, since the creed of Islam urges that no person be responsible for a crime committed by others. This is a prerequisite for justice: ‘No bearer of burdens shall bear the burden of another.’ "With respect to what has been reported in the media about reactions and how Americans view Muslims residing in the United States, Americans as guardians of democracy cannot deal with Muslims on the basis of crimes committed by a few. Criminals and aggressors cannot be equated with the innocent and the peaceful. "We would like to reiterate that Islam rejects such acts, since it forbids killing of civilians even during times of war, especially if they are not part of the fighting. A religion that views people of the world in such a way cannot in any sense condone such criminal acts, which require that their perpetrators and those who support them are held accountable. As a human community we have to be vigilant and careful to preempt these evils. Shari`ah is based on the principle that prevention is better than treatment; one of its goals is looking into causes. "We would like to confirm that the Islamic World and its religious and political leadership cannot condone such acts, and we are convinced that Western and American society cannot deal with Islamic nations and peoples from the basis of the crime committed. Muslims have to deal in good faith with those who live beside them in all societies, since Islam does not discriminate between humans, for they are all brothers. This barbaric act is not justified by any sane mindset, or any logic, nor by the religion of Islam. This act is pernicious and shameless and evil in the extreme. "We pray to Allah to guide the devious to the path of righteousness, and to protect us from all evils and from our own bad deeds, and to be gracious to us." We, the Muslims of the world, condemn terrorist acts in any form. All the Islamic scholars, in the light of the Quran and Ahadith, and Islamic jurisprudence derived therefrom, condemn the terrorist acts and further state that the Traditions of Islam, the Ahadith (the sayings of the Prophet Muhammad [s.a.w.s.]) and the sayings of all the prophets of humanity, have always condemned terrorism and violence. Dr. Malik Sardar Khan further shares the knowledge and invites the reader to read the Quran, Ahadith, Islamic jurisprudence, Islamic traditions, Islamic culture, and Islamic history. The reader will find the following is all true: All the Islamic scholars condemn this act and wish it had never happened. The world is becoming smaller and smaller in the technological age, and the human family on earth must learn to live in peace and harmony with one another. We share the pain and sorrow of the suffering of all communities of the United States of America. While we condemn in the strongest words the despicable attacks on buildings in New York and Washington, we are also alarmed at the impending strikes on the innocent men, women and children in Afghanistan who have already suffered much during the past twenty-two years despite the fact that they have no say in the policy-making of their war-ravaged country. We appeal for everyone to come to a dialogue and prove facts to each other. We pray to the Almighty that all people come to their senses. Let us not shed blood further. Let the criminals who destroyed the World Trade Center and damaged the Pentagon be brought to an international court of justice or to an Islamic court of justice where the plaintiff and the defendant both will plead their case, and upon proof of guilt the defendant will be punished. Let us not further degrade our beloved Planet Earth with war. We request the reader to read this not as an environmental article. We all must govern on Earth with the Divinely prescribed way: to live on Earth with actions that are for the betterment of humanity. We should win each other as brothers from the same family. The application of the Quranic verses which are referred to here, similar passages to which have been revealed in the earlier Biblical scriptures, must be interpreted correctly. Each faith must govern itself by the teachings of the beloved prophet who was sent by the Almighty. We should follow the teachings of that prophet and act accordingly. We all will win Paradise. The following essay is a chance for the non-Muslim reader to learn about the beliefs of Muslims. If we learn about each other, we can become closer friends. Allah has blessed the earth on which we live with abundant natural resources, and He has given the human race intelligence and power to use these resources for its benefit. At the same time, Allah has bestowed upon human beings the honor and responsibility of khilafah (stewardship) of these natural resources. The concept that it is our sacred duty to respect, preserve, and sustain the animals, plants, and inorganic resources of the Earth was revealed to the Muslims 1400 years before the term "human habitat (environmentalism)" was coined in the West. Allah has revealed, "Behold, thy Lord said to the angels, ‘I will create a vicegerent on earth.’ They said: ‘Wilt Thou place therein one who will create mischief therein and shed blood?’ ..." (Surah Baqara, ayah 30), for, unfortunately, man has been learning the hard way the lesson that wanton exploitation of natural resources leads to irreversible destruction. The terrorist act in New York and Washington has tremendously damaged the human habitat of the United States of America and has effects all over the world. Among all the numbers of Americans who were killed, the greatest numbers are of Christians; the second greatest number are of Muslims; and those of other faiths as well have died innocently. We totally condemn the act, and whoever has committed this act does not have belief or faith. No one has the right to destroy the human habitat on Earth. Anybody who will go for mass destruction of the human habitat will be questioned by the Almighty. He will receive its effects here and in the Hereafter. The burning of the oil wells of Kuwait damaged the human habitat tremendously. Another serious risk to the human habitat is caused by fires set to the rain forest to clear it. Bombardment has also been highly destructive, whether it occurred in Yugoslavia, the Middle East, or anywhere else. We all must learn to live and let live and love human beings and live in peace and harmony on Earth without destroying its resources. Acts such as this also destroy the world’s economic resources, and the world’s poor population suffers the most. The West has only recently been coming to an understanding of the need for conservation of natural resources and the management of renewable natural resources at a sustainable rate. But Allah’s message must have been clear to the early Muslims of the Arabian peninsula, where the severely limited availability of sweet water has forced man since ancient times to recognize it as a precious commodity not to be wasted. Man is reminded by Allah not to waste any resource by the Quran’s message, "O Children of Adam! Wear your beautiful apparel at every time and place of prayer: eat and drink: But waste not by excess, for Allah loveth not the wasters" (Surah Al-A`raf, ayah 31). We have globally invested massively for the destruction of mankind and unfortunately so little for the protection and preservation of his habitat. Our survival the way Almighty Allah has ordained is possible only if we follow the principles of Al-Quran. Today mankind has created weapons of mass destruction: biological and chemical weapons and atomic bombs. The Quran has predicted that there will be diseases such as AIDS and antibiotic-resistant strains of gonorrhea, syphilis and tuberculosis that will spread like a plague. The animals also are suffering from new diseases such as mad cow disease and hoof-and-mouth disease. The citrus plants have been affected by citrus canker. All these animal and plant diseases are combatable only by destroying all the animals or plants infected or within the quarantine area. Today germs are mutating to outsmart the antibiotics, rendering the antibiotics ineffective. New avenues to health must be investigated. Soon the human habitat will be degraded to the point that the annihilation of the human race will start. The ozone layer is being depleted. Serious droughts are coming in the world. Children are being born without brains. These are enough signs for humans to learn from their behavior and stop destroying the human race. The atomic explosions of the past have shown their effects worldwide. The world’s economy is at stake. The only solution is to settle our differences peacefully and diplomatically and for the criminals to be brought to the international courts of justice. Whoever is the criminal must pay for his deeds, not humanity to pay the price. The criminal’s religion should not be an excuse to condemn all the followers of that religion, but the criminal must be branded as a criminal. Hitler, Mussolini, Lenin, Stalin, the butchers of Yugoslavia, and many other dictators were terrorists, but their religion didn’t matter. Many of those who committed crimes against humanity along with these butchers were never brought to justice, nor was their religion blamed for what they did. One billion four hundred million Muslims in the world all condemn these acts. A criminal commits a crime in his individual capacity, whether he steals, rapes, murders, or commits an act of terrorism. When we talk peace, we should implement what is necessary to establish a long-lasting peace on earth. We have the United Nations. When the United Nations passes a resolution, then it must be implemented right away. All old resolutions must be implemented at the same time to keep the long-lasting peace in the world. Monotheism, trusteeship and accountability, that is, tawheed, khilafah, and akhirah, the three central concepts of Islam, are also the pillars of the ethics of the habitat of humanity. They constitute the basic values taught by the Quran. It is these values which led Muhammad, the Prophet of Islam, to say: ‘Whoever plants a tree and diligently looks after it until it matures and bears fruit is rewarded,’ and ‘There is none amongst the Muslims who plants a tree or sows seeds, and then a bird, or a person or an animal eats from it, but is regarded as a charitable gift from him’ and again, ‘The world is green and beautiful and Allah has appointed you his stewards over it.’ Consciousness of the habitat (environmental consciousness) is born when such values are adopted and become an intrinsic part of our mental and physical makeup. Man must learn his responsibility as viceregent. Look at the other planets: they sit barren with no oxygen, no plants, and no animals. Life is not possible there. Allah has blessed this earth with life. We must take care of this earth with a loving, tender touch and make it Paradise for the whole human family. Now we have the obligation to plant the trees of friendship, peace, and tranquility among all nations, races, and communities so they can grow and live peacefully as one human family. Muslims are prescribed to practice this nexus of values, this way of understanding themselves and their habitat. The notions of monotheism, trusteeship and accountability should not be reduced to matters of personal piety; they must guide all aspects of life and work. Shari`ah (Islamic law) is here to punish the criminal. If one has deprived life and property from a non-Muslim, Islamic law protects the victim. We do not have a kangaroo court system. Similarly, in the United States, unless the accused is proven guilty, he is considered innocent. It is a historical fact that the caliphs of Islam decided in favor of the non-Muslim plaintiff who had suffered at the hands of a Muslim. The non-Muslim, upon winning the case, became a Muslim because he was so impressed by the justice meted out by the Islamic court system. All the prophets of mankind were given a similar revelation, and we make no distinction. We often say that Islam is a complete way of life, by which it is meant that our ethical systems provide the bearings for all our actions. The whole humanity is prescribed throughout history to govern themselves in the world. We have been given messages throughout history by the prophets in the ancient scriptures. Yet our actions often undermine the very values we cherish. We must judge our actions by them. They furnish us with a world-view which enables us to ask environmentally appropriate questions, draw up the right balance sheet of possibilities, and properly weigh the environmental costs and benefits of what we want, what we can do within the ethical boundaries established by Allah, without violating the rights of His other creations. If we use the same values, the same understanding in our work as a scientist and technologist, economist or politician as we do to know ourselves as Muslims - those who subject themselves to the Will of Allah - then we will create a caring and practical way of being, doing and knowing, a true Islamic alternative to the environmentally destructive thought and action which dominate the world today. The others should learn from the Quran, because the message of the Quran came for all humanity. The earlier scriptures revealed the coming of a prophet whose name would be Ahmed (i.e. Muhammad, S.A.W.S.), who would have government, law, and a state, and who would bring together Bani Isra`il and Bani Isma`il, the believers in One God (Christians, Jews, and Muslims and all those who believe in one God). This is the promised Prophet revealed by the prophets of the earlier scriptures. That means he is the prophet for entire humanity. Further, the Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.S.) revealed that Jesus (peace and blessing be upon him) will come back to the world and bring one religions to the world and govern it according to the prescribed Shari`ah, the divine laws of Allah (God). So the prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.S.) took special interest and took Jews and Christians under his wing and saved them from persecution from the Romans. The teachings of Islam recognize all the prophets of the Bibles right from Adam all the way through Noah, Enoch, Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, David, Solomon, Job, Joseph, Moses, Aaron, Elias, Elisha, Jonah, Lot, Shui`aib, Saleh, Ezekiel, Zechariah, John the Baptist, Jesus, and Muhammad, peace be upon all of them. Allah has appointed man as a khalifa, a guardian and a vicegerent on earth. Islam offers an opportunity for understanding the natural order and human responsibility within its principles of tawhid (the unity of creation), fitra (humanity’s place in creation), mizan (moderation and reason with justice), and khilafah (stewardship). The message of Islam in the Quran gives the message to preserve our habitat. For example: " ... Indeed, to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth: everything renders worship to Him. "To Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth: When He decrees a matter, he says to it: ‘Be,’ and it is." (2:116-117) "(Allah) Most Gracious! "It is He Who has taught the Quran. "He has created man: "He has taught him speech (and Intelligence). "The sun and the moon follow courses (exactly) computed; "And the herbs and the trees- both (alike) bow in adoration. "And the Firmament has He raised high, and He has set up the Balance (of Justice), "In order that ye may not transgress (due) balance, "So establish weight with justice and fall not short in the balance. "It is He Who has spread out the earth for (His) creatures: "Therein is fruit and date-palms, producing spathes (enclosing dates); "Also corn, with (its) leaves and stalk for fodder, and sweet-smelling plants. "Then which of the favors of your Lord will ye deny?" (55:1-13) "There is not an animal (that lives) on the earth, nor a being that flies on its wings, but (forms part of) communities like you ..." (6:38) "Do you not see that it is Allah Whose praises all beings in the heavens and on earth do celebrate, and the birds (of the air) with wings outspread? Each one knows its own (mode of) prayer and praise. And Allah knows well all that they do. "Yea, to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth; and to Allah is the final goal (of all). "See you not that Allah makes the clouds move gently, then joins them together, then makes them into a heap? -then will you see rain issue forth from their midst. And He sends down from the sky mountain masses (of clouds) wherein is hail: He strikes therewith whom He pleases and He turns it away from whom He pleases. The vivid flash of His lightning well-nigh blinds the sight. "It is Allah Who alternates the Night and the Day: Verily in these things is an instructive example for those who have vision! "And Allah has created every animal from water: Of them there are some that creep on their bellies; some that walk on two legs; and some that walk on four. Allah creates what He wills; for verily Allah has power over all things." (24:41-45) "Do you not see that to Allah bow down in worship all things that are in the heavens and on earth - the sun, the moon, the stars; the hills, the trees, the animals; and a great number among mankind? ..." (22:18) "Mischief has appeared on land and sea because of what the hands of men have earned, that (Allah) may give them a taste of some of their deeds: in order that they may turn back (from Evil)." (30:41) The knowledge of creation is the basis of environmental teachings in the Quran. For example, it is forbidden in Islam to waste water. Even when one is performing wudu (ablutions for prayers)one is required to use as little water as possible and not to waste it. Allah will give to that (water-conserving) person rewards here and in the Hereafter. The Quran mentions in 56:59, "Is it ye who create it, or are We the Creators?" reminding the current age to manage biotechnology safely. Patenting life forms has opened a hornet’s nest of moral, legal, social, and scientific concern. The world’s species have to be protected, and biosafety is essential. There is growing public concern about the potential risk of biotechnology. The Quran warns us, "And follow not the bidding of those who are extravagant /Who make mischief in the land, and mend not (their ways) .." ( 26:151-152). Hazardous waste and toxic chemicals need attention. To reduce chemical risks is vital for sustainable development. Communities are going through a rough time. Unfortunately the United States of America has undergone a catastrophe. We should refrain from putting Islam under siege. Any person who has committed a crime of such magnitude cannot have religion or fear of God. One has to be a faithless, ruthless individual to kill innocent people. The government of the United States is trying its best to protect its citizens from any abuse. Please join us in our prayer: May Almighty Allah protect all of us and give patience to everybody and let the courses of action take their place, and may the real culprits who have done this job be found. Islam does not believe in terrorism or stand by terrorism. All the prophets of mankind forbid terrorism in any form. Today all religions condemn this act. Peace among communities is established through dialogue, not through violence. The people who have lost their lives in these buildings and in the planes were innocent. In the World Trade Center, those who lost their lives included Muslims from different ethnic backgrounds around the globe. It is very unfortunate for us to go through this pain. We hope that the world learns patience for people to live and let live and for people to build bridges of understanding among themselves, because this world belongs to the Almighty, and all humans have the right to survive on it. Nobody is inferior or superior. They are all the creatures of Allah. They should learn to respect each other. People should control their anger, and no one should take drastic actions. If one mistake occurred, no one should make a second mistake; rather, one should verify and find the truth. Every human in the United States is going through a very tense moment of his life. This tragedy is costing every person from every faith. We all must get together and work together globally and set aside our differences and work for a common goal for establishing a long-lasting peace. We seek Divine guidance as Allah (God) is alone the Provider, Sustainer, Giver and Taker. We should seek His Divine guidance and settle our differences peacefully and live in peace and harmony. We can make this earth a Paradise for humans to live. If we go to the route of mass destruction, then we all will be doomed. We should learn from past history and have patience and build the close-knit family relationship for all the humans, no matter what religious, cultural, ethnic, or national origin or background they come from. We should provide equal opportunity to all human beings to seek peace without any distinction of race, religion, or national origin. Say, "O Allah, Sovereign of the Kingdom! Thou bestowest kingdom on whomever Thou willest and Thou takest it away from whomever Thou willest. Thou exaltest whomever Thou willest and Thou abasest whomever Thou willest. All that is good is in Thy power; indeed Thou has full power over all things. Thou causest the night to pass into the day and Thou causest the day to pass into the night. Thou bringest forth the living out of the dead and Thou bringest forth the dead out of the living and Thou givest sustenance to whom Thou wilt without stint." (Al-i-Imran, 26-27). The Owner of the Universe, the King of Kings, the Judge of Judges is watching. It is His world, and He will take care of it. He will give special bounty to all those who have suffered innocently at the hands of His creatures, and He will punish the culprits. We all have to return to Him, and we all will be given rewards and punishments here and in the Hereafter. By Dr. Malik S. Khan Permanent U.N. Representative, World Muslim Congress Email: motamar@hotmail.com <motamar@hotmail.com> This article may be reproduced in full. Please do not take excerpts as the meaning may be destroyed. Nobody wants to read a crippled article. It is necessary for people to learn about one another to build bridges of understanding among all human beings.

Dear valaya prabhu: Personally,I don't like to engage in argumentative debate,but in this thread,Shvu had tried to mislead a devotee inquiring about Krsna by making a baseless allegation that Krsna Consciousness is about blind and unaccepting acceptance.I had to write something... Shvu may have a "unique sense of humor" but it is totally misguided when he constantly uses it to make sarcastic barbs at Lord Caitanya and the Vaishnava acaryas. I like to think that my spoken English is passable.In Singapore,English is widely read and spoken and I have had lots of opportunity to practice. [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 09-28-2001).]

More nonsense from Shvu this time. Nonsense 1:Shvu writes:When a long list of fake verses were offered by your masters to prove the "divinity" of chaitanya, how many of these verses did you verify? Did you even know, there is such a list? You and all your iskcon brethren accepted the claim in full, without doubting it for a moment. See what I mean? Somehow I don't think you will. It requires at least average IQ, which is more than what I can expect from you." In this rather spiteful words,Shvu's ignorance is totally exposed,for he does not know me personally so how does he know that I have accepted the claims of the Vaisnava acaryas without doubting it for "a moment"? How does he know whether I have had doubts or not? Those who make reckless speculations about people that they have no knowledge of are misguided. Nonsense 2:Shvu's trend of baseless allegation is continued in his absurd claim that I am an "iskcon representative".I am not from ISKCON.I have never been to an ISKCON temple,and I have only physically associated an ISKCON representative once,and that was a chance meeting. Nonsense 3:I asked Shvu whether he would take legal advice from a gangster and his reply was "A gangster is well aware of the existence of law and is also smart enough to know how to go around it." Is Shvu saying that if he had to face a lawsuit,he would seek out a gangster for legal advice? Nonsense 4:Shvu writes:"btw don't expect me to respond to your shallow postings in future." I don't know about my other posts,but I don't see how my last post can be considered shallow.Shvu made a baseless allegation that Krsna Consciousness is about blind and unquestioning acceptance and I quoted Srila Prabhupada to prove that this was not true.Why is that shallow? [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 09-27-2001).]

Dasanudas: Glad you enjoyed reading.I shall post more,but I don't think there's anything I can do about the wide thread...

Shvu: You are not writing logic,but absolute nonsense.You write:"Accept everything that has been told to you, in toto, without questioning/thinking/reasoning it out. And bingo ! you will be where these devotees are, for this is how they got there." This is a total misrepresentation of Krsna Consciousness. In a 1971 lecture on the Srimad Bhagavatam, His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada said: “Don't follow blindly. Following blindly something, that is not good. That will not stay. But one should take everything with logic. But the servants of God, they put everything in logic. Caitanyera dayara katha karaha vicara. If you study the Caitanya's philosophy with logic and argument... Don't go by sentiment.” ((Prabhupada's Lectures Srimad-Bhagavatam 1971 710106SB.CAL) These words from the pure devotee instantly refute your nonsensical accusation that Krsna Consciousness is about blind and unquestioning acceptance. Faithless,if you're reading this,I would strongly advice you to take everything Shvu says about Krsna or Krsna Consciousness with a few pinches of salt.He is an atheist who doesn't even accept the existence of Krsna.I don't think its a very good idea to inquire about Krsna from him. Shvu,I'm sure you won't argue with my logic here.Would you accept legal advice from a gangster who doesn't recognize the existence of the law? [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 09-26-2001).]

Shvu: I think it is you who is in need of correction.The Bhagavad-gita was very obviously not given to Arjuna specifically.In 18.70 of the Bhagavad-gita,Krsna says:"And I declare that he who studies this sacred conversation worships Me by his intelligence." So Krsna is aware that there would be people other than Arjuna who would get to study the conversation.The Bhagavad-gita was spoken by Krsna to Arjuna for the benefit of the whole world,just as during a lecture,a lecturer may answer the question of one student,but the whole class may hear and benefit. [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 09-26-2001).]

5.Strong A person who has extraordinary bodily strength is called baliyan.When Krsna killed Aristasura,some of the gopis said,"My dear friends,just see how Krsna has killed Aristasura!Although he was stronger than a mountain,Krsna plucked him up just like a piece of cotton and threw him away without any difficulty!" There is another passage wherein it is said, "O my dear devotees of Lord Krsna,may the left hand of Lord Krsna,which has lifted Govardhana Hill like a ball,save you from all dangers."(From The Nectar of Devotion by His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada,Chapter Twenty One: Qualities of Sri Krsna) [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 09-25-2001).]

Gauracandra: I can understand why you were so angry.Personally,I feel that Paul108's "meditations" on his "escatsies" were so undiplomatic. Lets put this all behind us and hope for the best for the eminent confronation with terrorism.

4.Effulgent The effulgence pervading the universe is considered to be the rays of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.The supreme abode of Krsna is always throwing off the effulgence known as brahmajyoti,and that effulgence is emanating from His body. The luster of the hosts of jewels fixed on the chest of the Lord can defeat even the luster of the sun,and still,when compared with the bodily luster of the Lord,that crest of jewels appears only as bright as one of the stars in the sky.Therefore the transcendental influence of Krsna is so great that it can defeat anyone.When Krsna was present in the sacrificial arena of His enemy King Kamsa,the wrestlers present,appreciating the softness of the body of Sri Krsna,were afraid and perturbed when they thought of engaging with Him in battle.(From The Nectar of Devotion by His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada,Chapter Twenty One: Qualities of Sri Krsna)

Paul108: Srila Prabhupada says,in The Science of Self Realization: "Pariksit Maharaja is a Vaisnava [devotee], and a Vaisnava always feels compassion for others' distress. He is very afflicted by the miseries of others. When Lord Jesus Christ presented himself, for instance, he was greatly afflicted by the miserable conditions of the people. Regardless of which country or sect they belong to, all Vaisnavas, or devotees--any people who are God conscious, or Krsna conscious--are thus compassionate." (Science of Self Realization --- Saintly Compassion) On the basis of transcendental knowledge as spoken by Krsna in the Bhagavad-gita,it is true that no one actually died in the WTC attack as the soul is immortal.But the fact remains that the attack was perpetuated by demonic terrorists who have no respect for the sanctity of human life.Is this any cause for joy? To have to live in constant terror because of the fanaticism of these demons --- is that any cause for joy? In those attacks,many of the victims (some of whom might never have had spiritual practice) must have left their bodies in a state of complete fear and panic.Is this any cause for joy? I can understand what you mean when you write that no one died, but I don't think its very diplomatic to go around telling people that.From the spiritual platform,it is true that no one died.But truth has to be spoken under the right circumstances otherwise it will just create animosity.In a period of national mourning,going around telling your fellow Americans that according to Krsna Consciousness,nobody actually died in the WTC attacks is probably not a very good idea. [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 09-23-2001).]

3.Pleasing Beautiful bodily features which automatically attract the eyes are called rucira (pleasing).Krsna possesses this attractive feature of rucira in His personal features.In the Third Canto,Second Chapter,verse 13,of Srimad Bhagavatam,there is a statement about this."The Supreme Personality of Godhead,in His pleasing dress,appeared at the scene of the sacrificial arena when King Yudhisthira was performing the Rajasuya sacrifice.All important personalities from different parts of the universe had been invited to the sacrificial arena,and all of them,upon beholding Krsna there,considered that the Creator had ended all of His craftsmanship in the creation of this particular body of Krsna." It is said that the transcendental body of Krsna resembles the lotus flower in eight parts --- namely His face,His two eyes,His two hands,His navel and His two feet.The gopis and inhabitants of Vrndavana used to see the luster of lotus flowers everywhere,and they could hardly draw their eyes from such a vision.(From The Nectar of Devotion by His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada,Chapter Twenty One: Qualities of Sri Krsna)

2.Auspicious Characteristics There are certain characteristics of different limbs which are considered to be very auspicious and are fully present in the body of the Lord.In this connection,one friend of Nanda Maharaja,speaking about Lord Krsna's auspicious bodily symptoms said,"My dear King of the cowherds,I can find thirty-two auspicious symptoms on the body of your son!I am wondering how this boy could have taken His birth in a family of cowherd men."Generally,when Lord Krsna appears He does so in a family of ksatriyas (kings)as did Lord Ramacandra,and sometimes in a family of brahmanas.But Krsna accepted the role of son to Maharaja Nanda,despite the fact that that Nanda belonged to the vaisya community.The business of the vaisya community is trade,commerce and the protection of cows.Therefore his friend,who may have been born into a brahmana family,expressed his wonder at how such an exalted child could take birth in a family of vaisyas.Anyway,he pointed out the auspicious signs on the body of Krsna to the boy's foster father. He continued,"This boy has a reddish luster in seven places --- His eyes,the ends of His hands,the ends of His legs,His palate,His lips,His tongue and His nails.A reddish luster in these seven places are considered to be auspicious.Three parts of His body are very broad:His waist,forehead and chest.Three parts of His body are short:His neck,thighs and genitals.Three parts of His body are very deep:His voice,His intelligence and navel.There is highness in five parts of His body:His nose,arms,ears,forehead and thighs.In five parts of His body there is fineness:His skin,the hairs on His head and on the other parts of His body,His teeth and His fingertips.The aggregate of all these bodily features is manifest only in the bodies of great personalities. The fate lines on the palm are also considered to be auspicious bodily symptoms.In this connection,one old gopi informed King Nanda,"Your son possesses various wonderful fate lines on His palms.There are the signs of lotus flowers and wheels on His palms,and on His soles there are the signs of a flag,a thunderbolt,a fish,a rod for controlling elephants,and a lotus flower.Please observe how auspicious these signs are!"(From The Nectar of Devotion by His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada,Chapter Twenty One: Qualities of Sri Krsna)

1.Beautiful Bodily Features Any comparison of the different parts of the Lord's body to different material objects cannot factually be a complete comparison.Ordinary persons,who cannot understand how exalted are the bodily features of the Lord,are simply given a chance to understand by a material comparison.It is said that Krsna's face is as beautiful as the moon,His thighs are powerful just like the trunks of elephants,His arms are just like two pillars,His palms are expnaded like lotus flowers,His chest is just like a doorway,His hips are dens,and the middle of His body is a terrace.(From The Nectar of Devotion by His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada,Chapter Twenty One: Qualities of Sri Krsna)

Srila Rupa Goswami,after consulting various scriptures,has enumerated the transcendental qualities of the Lord as follows 1)beautiful features of the entire body;(2)marked with all auspicious characteristics;(3)extremely pleasing;(4)effulgent;(5)strong;(6)ever youthful;(7)wonderful linguist;(8)truthful;(9)talks pleasantly;(10)fluent;(11)highly learned;(12)highly intelligent;(13)a genius;(14)artistic;(15)extremely clever;(16)expert;(17)grateful;(18)firmly determined;(19)an expert judge of time and circumstances;(20)sees and speaks on the authority of Vedas,or scriptures;(21)pure;(22)self-controlled;(23)steadfast;(24)forbearing;(25)forgiving;(26)grave;(27)self-satisfied;(28)possessing equilibrium;(29)magnanimous;(30)religious;(31)heroic;(32)compassionate;(33)respectful;(34)gentle;(35)liberal;(36)shy;(37)the protector of surrendered souls;(38)happy;(39)the well-wisher of devotees;(40)controlled by love;(41)all-auspicious;(42)most powerful;(43)all famous;(44)popular;(45)partial to devotees;(46)very attractive to all women;(47)all-worshipable; (48)all-opulent;(49)all-honorable;(50)the supreme controller.The Supreme Personality of Godhead has all these fifty transcendental qualities in fullness as deep as the ocean.In other words,the extent of His qualities is inconceivable. As parts and parcels of the Supreme Lord, the individual living entities can also possess all of these qualities in minute quantities,provided they become pure devotees of the Lord.In other words,all of the above transcendental qualities can be present in the devotees in minute quantity,whereas the qualities in fullness are always present in the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Besides these,there are other transcendental qualities which are described by Lord Siva to Parvati in the Padma Purana and in the First Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam in connection with a conversation between the deity of the earth and the King of religion,Yamaraja,it is said therin,"Persons who are desirous of becoming great personalities must be decorated with the following qualities:truthfulness,cleanliness,mercy,perseverance,renunciation,peacefulness,simplicity,control of the senses,equilibrium of the mind,austerity,equality,forbearance,placidity,learning,knowledge,detachment,opulence,chivarly,influence,strength,memory,independence,tactfulness,lster,patience,kind-heartedness,ing enuity,gentility,mannerliness,determination,perfection in all knowledge,proper execution,possession of all objects of enjoyment,gravity,steadiness,faithfulness,fame,respectfulness and lack of false egotism." Persons who are desiring to become great souls cannot be without any of the above qualities,so we can know for certain that these qualities are found in Lord Krsna,the supreme soul. Besides all of the above mentioned fifty qualities,Lord Krsna possess five more,which are sometimes partially manifested in the persons of Lord Brahma or Lord Siva.These transcendental qualities are as follows: (51)changeless;(52)all cognizant;(53)ever fresh;(54)sac-cid-ananda (possessing an eternal blissful body);(55)possessing all mystic perfections. Krsna also possesses five other qualities,which are manifest in the body of Narayana,and theya re listed as follows.(56)He has inconceivable potency.(57)Uncountable universes generate from His body.(58)He is the original source of all incarnations.(59)He is the giver of salvation to the enemies whom He kills.(60)He is the atttractor of liberated souls.All these transcendental qualities are manifest wonderfully in the personal feature of Lord Krsna. Besides these sixty transcendental qualities,Krsna has four more,which are not manifest not even in the Narayana form of Godhead,what to speak of the demigods or living entities.They are as follows.(61)He is the performer of wonderful varities of pastimes (especially His childhood pastimes). (62)He is surrounded by devotees endowed with wonderful love of Godhead.(63)He can attract all living entities all over the universes by playing on His flute. (64)He has a wonderful excellence of beauty which cannot be rivalled anywhere in creation. Adding to the list these four exceptional qualities of Krsna,it is to be understood that the aggregate number of qualities of Krsna is sixty-four.Srila Rupa Goswami has attempted to give evidences from various scriptures about all the sixty-four qualities present in the person of the Supreme Lord. (From The Nectar of Devotion by His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada,Chapter Twenty One: Qualities of Sri Krsna) [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 09-22-2001).]

Dear atma: Hare Krsna!Maybe you could ask Srila Puri Maharaj's opinion about the terrorist attacks on New York? After all His Divine Grace was at the Twin Towers recently to lead kirtan.I'm sure the kirtan was Krsna's arrangement. [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 09-21-2001).]

Two gurus??? What does "RR" mean? [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 09-21-2001).]

Thank you people for offering your insights and comments.I have had the opportunity to converse with some Christian evangelists in my university (National University of Singapore),and they have asked me a few questions about Krsna Consciousness. It seems to me that the chanting of the holy names is so fundamental to Krsna Consciousness that I find it difficult to speak about Krsna Consciousness without mentioning chanting. Yet there is this danger that even if those Christians believe in God,they might very well mentally deride the process of chanting after I've mentioned it to them.Maybe I could mention chanting without telling them about the maha-mantra? And what about non-devotees? If by chance they see a devotee chanting with a bead bag and ask:"What are you doing?"What should be the response that does not create offences to the holy name by instructing the faithless? I've thought about it a little and I think if that were to happen to me,all I would say is: "I'm chanting the holy names of God."If they left it at that,fine.But if they want to know more... Suggestions,anyone? [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 09-20-2001).]

suhrn-mitrary-udasina- madhyastha-dvesya-bandhusu sadhusv api ca papesu sama-buddhir visisyate A person is said to be still further advanced when he regards all --- the honest well-wisher,friends and enemies,the envious,the pious,the sinner,and those who are indifferent and impartial---with an equal mind." (Bg.6.9)This is a sign of real spiritual advancment.In this material world we are considering people friends and enemies on the bodily platform --- that is,on the basis of sense gratification.If one gratifies our senses,he is our friend,and if he doesn't,he is our enemy.However,once we have realized God,or the Absolute Truth,there are no such material considerations. In this material world,all conditioned souls are under ilusion.A doctor treats all patients,and although a patient may be delirious and insult the doctor,the doctor does not refuse to treat him.He still admisnisters the medicine that is required.As Lord Jesus Christ said,we should hate the sin,not the sinner.That is a very nice statement,because the sinner is under illusion.He is mad.If we hate him,how can we deliver him?Therefore those who are advanced devotees,who are really servants of God,do not hate anyone.When Lord Jesus Christ was being crucified,he said,"My God,forgive them.They know not what they do."This is the proper attitude of an advanced devotee.He understands that the conditioned souls cannot be hated,because they have become mad due to their materialistic way of thinking.In this Krsna consciousness movement,there is no question of hating anyone.Everyone is welcome to chant Hare Krsna,take krsna-prasada,listen to the philosophy of Bhagavad-gita and try to rectify material,conditioned life. --- The Path of Perfection,by His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada,Chapter Three: Learning How to See God [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 09-20-2001).]