Soma Juice

would you like to explain what they mean?

"A physicist, a mathematician, and a mystic were asked to name the greatest invention of all time. The physicist chose the fire, which gave humanity the power over matter. The mathematician chose the alphabet, which gave humanity power over symbols. The mystic chose the thermos bottle. "Why a thermos bottle?" the others asked. "Because the thermos keeps hot liquids hot in winter and cold liquids cold in summer." "Yes - so what?" "Think about it." said the mystic reverently. That little bottle - how does it *know*?""

i see! very very interresting! im just a seeker my self trying to solve the puzzle! and i apreciate this forum and the wise folk who inhabit it very much! I would really like to learn about the things you speak where can i find information?

okay.. the only point i want to make is that these plants indeed can be used for spiritual purposes just like chant, kirtan and meditation.

Why would make the tradition shallow? it is a fact that shamans wo uses these plants indeed have reached some of the same levels of counciousness as vedic enlighted masters, if you read the story about Maria Sabina it clearly proves my case she has great telephatic abilities and healing powers something that shows her high level of counciousness. If the psychedelic experience was hollow how can it lead to such powers? I also think the vedic seers made the deepest plunge into god. But remember there are many ways to god some takes you longer than other but they are all ways to god. No vedic religion is not a "primitive" religion but that still dont proves it didnt have shamanistic roots and rig-veda IMO proves that the vedic religion actually had plant use an essential part of it. The vedic religion could be build on shamanism and then through time refined into the great spiritual thruth the long tradition holds. These soma rituals and the secret knowledge of how to find and make the soma formed the priest-caste who then made the basis for the organized vedic religion who produced so many seers and great spirituality. I think the psychedelic experience can be described as a forced and very invasive spiritual experience and not like meditation who trains your counciouness and diciplines your counciousness, that is also why many shamans spend years in isolation just like we see in india to achieve an unclutched mind and make them possible to receive information through these plants and it is also why if your ego is in the way the information received will be flawed and even dangerous and can even lead to insanity. Thats why it can seems like a delusion but, but eventhough you think it is a delusion the very special way it affect our counciousness has not been studied due to the taboos of the western world to the extent it is worthy. The great spiritual deepth the rig-veda speaks of shows that it holds great the soma ritual hold great truth. A sign of the psychdelic experiences potiential can also be seen in the way these substances has made many people take up the spiritual path. Look at known figures in the west like Bhagavan Das and Ram Dass who both startet their spiritual journey with psychedelics. Look at the great rise in interest in Buddhism and Vedic religions after LSD was released. ***Moderator Is there some way i can edit my thread the last link dont work and there are some spelling mistakes

many evidences from the rig veda and from research says it is not cannabis at least not alone, the soma plant was pressed and and a milky substance was extractet. It would be a very not effecient way to coonsume cannabis. It is kind of stupid saying what the rig-vedic people did was out of boredom. Do you think poeple dont have anything to do with out electricity and tourism? and if you study the rig-veda you will see the great spiritual value the plant is praised for

The mystery of the soma plant is a subject that intrigues me much. The exact identifaction has never been found, but i think it is safe to say that it had great spiritual value in its intoxicating effect. But the plant symbiosis has been long lost and the soma rituals are gone. This kind of saddens me because i belive we can learn alot from these sacred plants if restore the link between us and them, a link that has brought great spirituality to mankind. The interesting is that cermonies with religious use of hallucinogenic plants is seen all over the world. South America have widespread use of many diffrent plants, north american indians uses the mescaline containing cacti peyote, traces of plant use have been found allmost all over the world but the tradition is sadly weakened alot worldwide by the invasion of western culture and what that brings with it. We can conclude that plants have been used for a tool to communicate with the spirit world/higher levels of counciousness with great succes. And many lines can be drawn between the level of counciousness the shamans who ingest these reach and the levels great saints and enlightned masters have reached, the shamans of the amazon rainforest is is thought by the old shamans knowledge of the plants and the spirits of the forest, they shamans have powers like telepathy and healing powers as it is also seen among our hindu saints. The link below contains the story of a psylocibin mushrooms cermony with the great shaman Maria Sabina. www csp org/nicholas/A27.html And it seems like the early vedic religion also thought these types of plants might have played an important role in shaping the vedic tradition, but due to unkown factors and the strict secrecy the soma plant was treatet with the knowledge is lost in india. But do you accept plant use a way to evovle spiritualy? do you think that intoxication is a valid form of worship? This zen preist have some interesting stuff to say on the subject: www maps org/news-letter/v11n2/11243pal.html

i am wondering why non-chanting closed eyed meditations isent mentioned? dont hare krishna devotees dont practice that at all?

wise words

The fun thing is you ask many of the same questions i did kaisersose, when i was a atheist. My view has changed not because i somehow interlectually understood the way of the world or the meaning of existince but I have trough experience of god on my own body washed every last doubht away. I would just hope you give the buddhist or vedic understading of suffering a chance. Just like buddha the nature of suffering will be revealed to you. To understand the concepts from the scriptures and masters you must experience them by meditation, not many poeple reach to a understanding by interlect paradoxes the human mind makes like how can suffering be in this world etc. when it is not a paradox when you get a deeper understanding. just my 2 cents or what ever you say in english hehe

Yes typical for scientist, they should know that: Absence of evidence, is not evidence of absence! But the idea that they hide the evidence of god i dont agree in, what reasons should they have for hidding it? because they want to keep god as a secret only to them selfs? I just think it is arogance and ignorance combined hehe

What is your favorite mantra if you cant choose the Hare Krishna mantra Im posting this because i dont know that many mantras and really want to learn some more.

I my self belive in the theory of evolution, im not saying it is complete in any way, nothing is, and especialy not science, but saying that evolutionist think that life is just chance has nothing to do with the theory. He actualy implies that all evolutionist is in fact just nihilists,he kind of sneaky puts it in our shoes.