Dasha

Yes this "terminator seed" is a real demoniac agent of kali yuga, and it is not surprising to see it in the hand of these multinational Societies whose only goal is to have control over humanity with only one idea in head: earning more money. I have heard that something like the 4 richest persons in the planet have more money than the total money of the 40 poorest country. But it seems that they do not have enough so they go on inventing ways to earn more and more. It is true that what is not going up is going down, so they have to allways develope their technologies to keep the head. But, as far as this terminator seed is concerne, we can see very big reaction in the world against it. A French "paysan" (farmer) José Bovet was in India recently to help local farmers to fight for their survival, and I have heard that the big Compagny who is propagating these seeds as receive a kind of interdiction to go further. Maybe this is going back to jump better in the future, but all hope is not loosed. This age of Kali is may be advancing quikly, but this is not whithout resistance from the forces of the Good. Concerning this great technology which is Internet, this is for me a wonderfull instrument without which I would have a hard time to communicate with devotees and spiritualist. Infortunetaly it is also an instrument of the devil. It is just like money, we should take it for the best,i.e. use it in God's service Cheers.

Hi shvu Excuse me for my ignorance, but what does mean your repetitive "btw"? In whatever sens I am turning it in my mind I cannot find the clue. Cheers

Hi shvu Excuse me for my ignorance, but what does mean your repetitive "btw"? In whatever sens I am turning it in my mind I cannot find the clue. Cheers

Hi all, For sure I have not be very clear in my question, specially I forgot one important "detail" which is that all people narrating NDE clearly express whithout any contestation possible that they have all seen the scene of their operation or accident from above. They where all out of their body, to the point that they can explain the all operation whereas they where suppose to be deeply asleep. THEY COULD NOT HAVE INVENT THESE DETAILS. For me there is no doubt about the possibility of going out of the body, but I would be very much interested if somebody had experiment this fact practically. The second thing is about this notion of karma. We read in the 5th canto of Bhagavatam in many details what is going to happenned to sinners (as we are all more or less): a) These people having experience NDE never speak about frightening situation, but rather about a great feeling of love. Even if they did not experiment death in itself, as said shvu, it is not too far from it. Why do they find love where they will find the suffering of hell according to their deeds in this lifetime (and it cannot just be their "previous good karma" as suggest gtam). b)About the hell that we are suppose to endure for our sins: If we are in human bodies in this lifetime it is because we are very advance in our evolution since we have go through all the animals species. How can we loose it just because we have (for example) eat meat in this life time (I am vegetarian but anyway it is an example and so many people do eat meat) or had sex with another wife than our legitime. Also it is a good karma to have this human form of life on this earth, at a time where almost everybody have heard about spiritual subjects, so what is this bad karma to not be able to take advantage of it and progress further. Instead most of the people go the wrong way. Ho it seems to be very complicated, I should rather stop here, seat down and chant HARE KRSNA. Jaya Shri Krsna

Many years ago I heard that there was a devotee who was a scientist before joining the Hare Krsna mouvement, and he had made comparison of dates between the datation given by the "materialist scientist" about the evolution of mankind and what the Vedic litterature says on this subject matter. We find fondamental differencies such as the fact that "materialist" explain that our grand grand father was a "prehistorical" human. But we learn from the Vedas that there is a cycle of 4 ages coming one after an other, and before this kali yuga mankind was much develope than we are. Would it be possible that what they called the prehistoric human was what was mankind at the end of the previous kali yuga? It was said too that the dinosaures where the animals of this previous Kali yuga, but they disapeared from the earth about 60 000 years ago !!!!!!! If it is (as I heard) it seems that there is not enough room to insert the Satya yuga(1 728 000 years, the Treta yuga (1 296 000 years) and the Dvapara yuga (864 000 years) which is 3 888 000 years + 5 000 from this age = 3 893 000 years in between the "prehistoric" time (last Kali yuga) and the present kali yuga. Is there anybody having explanation on this subject matter? Thank

Many years ago I heard that there was a devotee who was a scientist before joining the Hare Krsna mouvement, and he had made comparison of dates between the datation given by the "materialist scientist" about the evolution of mankind and what the Vedic litterature says on this subject matter. We find fondamental differencies such as the fact that "materialist" explain that our grand grand father was a "prehistorical" human. But we learn from the Vedas that there is a cycle of 4 ages coming one after an other, and before this kali yuga mankind was much develope than we are. Would it be possible that what they called the prehistoric human was what was mankind at the end of the previous kali yuga? It was said too that the dinosaures where the animals of this previous Kali yuga, but they disapeared from the earth about 60 000 years ago !!!!!!! If it is (as I heard) it seems that there is not enough room to insert the Satya yuga(1 728 000 years, the Treta yuga (1 296 000 years) and the Dvapara yuga (864 000 years) which is 3 888 000 years + 5 000 from this age = 3 893 000 years in between the "prehistoric" time (last Kali yuga) and the present kali yuga. Is there anybody having explanation on this subject matter? Thank

Hi shvu, Sorry I am not JNDAS, and I do not revendicate to be able to answer your question as well as he would do. But there is something I would like to tell you: I can see that you have a very good knowledge of the vedic litterature, much much more that I will ever be able to have. Nontheless the goal of all these books is not to record them by heart, or to be able to put one in comparison to an other. This will not give you the essence of this wonderful knowledge. These books are here to help us to developpe our spiritual nature and give up our mundane vision and bad habits. If you only look for what is wrong in them, one day you will be at the dusk of your life and realise that may be you have proove that this or that was not right in the Bhagavatam, but that you do not have advance in the understanding of what is your real nature. You say that you do not beleive in re-incarnation. Allright, but if everything finishes at the time of death what are you looking for in these books; they all speak about an other world. I understand that you need to have complete faith in a book to beleive in it. This is my tendancy too. But Maya as very subtle aspect and is expert to present herself under the shape of philosophical arguing to bewilder us and make us miss the real purpose. We really have to be carefull not to fall in her clutches. And her clutches do not have always a fearfull aspect. They are even generally very attractive !!!!!!!!!!!! Cheerfully, Your servant.

It seems that shvu is giving good answers to your question. What are you looking for? Material or spiritual benefits? Or just curiosity. Meditation can be only a gymnastic of the brain as well as it can bring you to the most divine love of God. Now to determine if you have to meditate on the name of: Rama, Krsna, Allah, Jesus Christ or Shiva, it is not so important. If you want to attain the planet "Sun", you have to meditate on him. To do so you may call it: "the Sun" or "le Soleil" or "die Sonne" or "el Sol", it doesn't matter. The main idea is that you cannot practice meditation just as you would practice a sport. It will end up very quickly. Your servant

------- Brain damage can result in loss of memory, or intelligence as we know. And the brain dies along with the body. So how can memory possibly get carried on ? ------- It is not because your radio is out of order that the emission has stop. The waves-radio are still here but you do not have any more the instrument to pick them up. So for the subtles elements of the body they need the "gross" body to be express, but they will survive to his destruction. ------- You, me and all the people we know don't remember any of our past lives. Several of the cases who claimed to remember, were proven to be fake or wrong. ------- Several where proven to be fake or wrong, but what about the real ones? Even if only one of them were authentic would be the proof of the reality of reincarnation. On this forum many great learned persons speak of the reality of a life other than our present life in this material and temporary body. I beleive in this reality, but is there anybody who knows practically what is going to happen at the time of death. Many people have related NDE (Near Death Experience) experiment during chirurgical operation, and they all have a similar narration. White light, peace, harmony, great feeling of love etc... And this is comming from persons from which we would say that according to the scriptures they should be burning in hell while living their bodies. (they mostly have eat meat their life long and have done so many sinfull activities). Thank you for answering Your servant

Hi shvu, Yes in one sense love of God comes by chance. But you can also provoque this chance. Paramatma is situated within our heart and He is simply waiting that we turn our face towards Him. He is the personnified Patience. He can wait for us as long as we want. He is always trying to manifesting . But we are not ready yet to perceive Him. However, all of us, if we discuss on this forum that mean that we are looking for something. At least we have a theoretical approche of God. NOW IF WE WANT TO GO FURTHER WE HAVE TO ASK HIM: PLEASE HELP ME TO DEVELOP LOVE FOR YOU !!!!!!! This is all what he is looking for. Dear shvu, just try sincerely and you will see that God reciprocates immediately. Krsna says in Bhagavad Gita: "According to their abandon I manifest myself to My devotees". ------ So now I have to wait for that magical thing to happen, when I will suddenly get inspired or develop faith. ------ Infortunately it does not come suddendly by magic. God will never force you. IT AS TO COME FROM YOU. ONLY YOUR STRONG DESIRE WILL MAKES IT COME OUT. As far as your heart is concerne, if it is already full then you will feel overfloaded by divine love. Cheerfully Dasha

Hi shvu Don't worry it was just a kind of provocation !!! ------- What do you mean by 'dry' philosophical? I would like to know what dry means here. ------- What I mean is that philosophy may bring satisfaction to the mind, but not to the heart. It may give intellectual satisfaction but the heart do not feel filled up. Love of God must filled your heart up because it is the his real need. We may try to report our loving tendancy to so many things (children, wife, work, sport, even philosophy), but it will never give us this feeling of ful'filment that love of God procure. It is like for a salad. It my be a very good salad, but if there is no salad-dressing, something is missing. No body wants of a "dry" salad. We do not want "dry" love of God. ------- But I don't think that it can be cultivated. Why ? Because all the people whom I believe to be great devotees did not go through a gradual process of cultivating love. (According to their biographies, at least) ------- Do their biographies speak about what they did in their previous lives ? Generally not. Howewer I am sure that you have heard stories like this of Narada Muni or many other great sages who where very ordinary persons in there previous life and became great devotees after having get the divine grace of God or a pure devotee. What does mean KARMA: That you are leaving now what you prepared in your previous life, and you are preparing now what you will be in you next life. And in this way, step by step, you progress toward you goal, whatever it is. If by chance you get in touch with love of God then you are "catch". It may take many other lives, but once it is started by the mercy of any devotee, you will not be able to stop the process and it will go on up to the final destination. Of course if you see a devotee during a brief period of time (and a life IS a brief period of time) it may seem to you that he is not really advancing in his love of God. But this is material consideration, because you cannot mesure love of god in somebody just by looking at him. ------- Is he ? Unfortunately, I don't hear a thing. I have to first hear something to begin listening. No Sukriti, perhaps ? ------- If you receive the bi-monthly letters of JNDAS you have certainly read that there are differents level of hearing. Hearing do not only refer to an external sound. Did you never heard about listening to our consciousness ? Are you sure that you never did something and there was somebody inside telling you: "No you should not do it" ? You may call it consciousness, but it may also be God under the form of Paramatma who is situated in everyone's heart. Of course you have to be very attentive, but if you want to hear Him you will. ------- Not that I became intelligent or anything, but now I see both sides of the coin. You would be surprised to know what a difference that makes. ------- I know the difference that makes, specially that intelligence which is indispensable to understand spiritual life can also be your worst ennemy when it is to understand "simple" things as how to simply love Krsna. By my own experience I can tellyou that it is very exciting to be on a mental or intellectual plateform, but to come back to the first point of this text, it does not nourish our inner self. JAYA RADHA JAYA KRSNA ALL GLORIES TO THE DEVOTEES OF THE LORD. Your servant

Haribol, Gauracandra, I really feel my heart melting while reading your story on the passing of Srila Gaur Govinda Swami. I never have heard this story, and I thank you very much for haviug narrated it. Hi, shvu, Don't you feel in your heart something different when you read this kind of story than when you read a dry philosophical point trying to prouve that there is no possibility to develop love of God by any way you are trying? If not, that mean that you are very stone-like hearted, and I sincerely have pity for you, because you are really missing something If we where able to always follow our inner feelings we would already being back in the Original Realm of God. But infortunetly we always went to rationalise of never listen to the signs that God is giving in our heart. He is constantly speaking to us, but we rarely listen to Him. Simply by saying that we can only express a love for God which is already existant (like in the example of JayaSriRadhey or great Saint) means that you recognise that love for God exist. If it exist that mean that it can be improve. Now you have to find the best way to attain your goal. You cannot stay eternally in the same position, either materially or spiritually, you have to move up or down. To tell you frankly, I am a very doubtfull person concerning the Absolute Truth, and the existence of God in the form of Krsna. But by I do not know what, I am always like "force" to come back to Him each time I want to deviate from His path. And by His inconceivable mercy I feel some kind of taste while calling Him on my japa. I would have a hard time to convince someone of the existence of Krsna, but I can tell you that I would be blind and deaf if I was saying that God never manifest to someone willing to know about him. This cannot be communicate by words, just as you cannot communicate to somebody the experience of the taste of a meal unless he is tasting it himself. I hope that one day you may have this feeling, then you will stop this dry philosophical speculation on the love of God. JUST FOLLOW YOUR HEART, NOT YOUR MIND. JaysriRadhey, thank you for your nectar Yours Dasha

Hi shvu It is explain in Bhagavad Gita that there are 8 elements in this material world: earth, water, air, fire and ether are "gross" elements mental, intelligence and ego are more subtle elements. Memory do not reside in palbable elements but rather in mind or intelligence which constitute your subtle body and follow you in your next life. There would be many reasons to explain why we do not remenber everything from our previous life, we can just see that we do not even remenber exatly what we did for sure yesterday at the same time. Beside that there are so many account of person having come to remenber what they did or where in their previous life that it is not possible to deny that. It is also not so difficult to understand that the difference between person is due to what they have done previously. If this is true in material life, it must be true from a life to another. Cheers

This poem is very beautiful, but what to say about somebody whom each effort he does in order to help a nearby parent is taken in such a wrong way that it is understood to be an attack ?

Dear shvu I do not really understand what is your position in this discussion. To which point do you want to come to ? Just polemic and philosophical speculation ? If Krsna DO exist, it is not since 700, 5000 or 5 billions years, it is from not human calculating time, i.e. eternity. If Krsna DO NOT exist it is not a question of a few hundreds of years or to know who write about Him the first time that will change anything. If it is then Who is the ORIGINAL ABSOLUTE TRUTH ? It is natural to see in the Absolute Creator the top most Beauty, Intelligence etc... If we are all looking for that, that may not be without any reason. Even if the Form of Krsna is just born from the imagination of some writer, this imagination sticks to everybody's idea of what ABSOLUTE BEAUTY may be. If you know a better acheivement on which to meditate upon, please let me know. What is the value to depreciate someone's goal if this goal bring's him to get ride of this material platform. You may be right to prouve this or that but this does not make the things different from what they are. It is not because someone is a big scholars that he will get liberated (which all of us would like to acheive as far as I can understand), rather even Christ use to say that the doors of heaven are open to people with children mind (which do not mean stupid !!!!!!!!!) I am the first to have the tendency to speculate and have many doubts in my mind, but this does not change the fact that we have to take a path in spiritual life and follow it. Even if the goal is different from one person to another, I am sure that first of all sincerity is required, then at time, everything will be revealed. As humbly as possible, Dasha

It is true that the all mouvement Hare Krsna of Srila Prabhupada is based on this relation between Radha and Krsna. Would it be just a big swindle ? I hardly beleive. I like to have the opinion of J.N.Das (if he wants too, of course) on this subject matter, because it is a little bewildering to read these assertions. Thank

It is sure that this is a big question ! Just imagine now that some one may prouved that there is no demigods in fact, and the nature is just "operating on a set of predetermined scientific laws being controlled by a Supreme Controller". What would that mean?: That the Vedic literature who is all base on the existence of the devas has no more reason of been, and not only that, but the pastimes of Krsna in Vrindavan 5000 years ago are all gentle stories. (Try to imagine the lifting of Govardhana without Indra !). There is no meaning to accept Krsna's teaching and not His pastimes. The all Srimad Bhagavatam is relating the activities of the devas to. Even if we think (as shvu) that "The ancients came up with the idea of worshipping all the different forces of nature, and gave them human forms and names" we are in contradiction with the Bhagavad Gita where Krsna says to Arjuna: devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha "The demigods being please by sacrifices, will also please you; thus nourishing one another, there will reign general prosperity for all" Also: antavat tu phalam tesam tad bhavaty alpha-medhasam devan deva-yajo yanti mad-bhakta yanti mam api Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who whorship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but My devotees ultimately reach My supreme planet. So Krsna in the Bhagavad Gita clearly states the existence of these demigods. Why should we deny their existence. There is no need to worship them, because to worship The supreme Lord include to worship all the demigods, just as when putting food in the stomach you will nourish the entire body; you do not need to nourish the differents parts of body seperatedly. The principle of the scriptures is that you take them all or not at all. Still in Bhagavad Gita Srila Prabhupada says Chapter 4 text 12, in the purport: ...For one who cannot understand what the Personnality of Godhead is, sacrifice to the demigods is recommended... Dear Bhakta Shakta, you also says: "I fail to understand how Indra is responsible for producing rain. Or how there is some deity for controlling my digestion... ". When you go to the administration to get some official paper, the person that you see is a person like you and me, but that does not mean that there is not a chief above that person, and above him there is a director, and above a general director, then a minister, and finally the prime minister and the President. When you see such an ordinary person in front of you, you should nevertheless not forget that there is also a prime minister that as a view over the all things of the nation. For the rain it is the same thing: When the cloud is coming do not forget that there must be an Indra somewhere, even if it is not him personnaly who carries the cloud over you head. You may think that it is coming by the simple "laws of nature", but when there is "laws" there must be some one to edict it and to applied it. Namaste Dasha

I am very happy to read you all wises persons who have real faith in vedic scriptures. I have a hard time (even if I make an big effort) to beleive a few thing which are discribe in the Vedas: For example to say that the Milky Way is nothing else that the Ganges descending on earth whereas it is the simply our galaxy seen from the side; Also the story of Rahu eating the moon been the lunar eclipse, whereas the moon eclipses are obviously the shadow of the earth (just see the shape of the shadow, it was the first way for the scientist to realise that the earth was round and not straight). And what about the partial eclipse? These are just two exemples but there could be many others. We find all over the world all kinds of stories and beleives of that kind about all kind of cosmic or earthly manifestation (as well in the eskimos society than in africa or south america or the Indians of america...) which would make you gently laught, where these people are convince of these explanations and take them for granted, whatever the science may explain. I agree that the science is not always to be follow but on certain thing it is difficult to differenciate between a attested truth and a mythologic story. Please give me argument because I sincerely would like to beleive. Thank you

What you say is not very far from truth but I think it to be a little discouraging for some body who wants to engage in a spiritual path. We all know the kind of desire for enjoyement that you are discribing at each level that we are; but that does not mean that we have to be discourage and not try to engage ourself, and just seat down and chant up to the point where we are completly realised to move and do something else. Of course as anybody else srix29 will experiment dificulties and big doubts in is spiritual life, but let them come at their time. There is no other way to advance than to go throught these dificulties. But you are right, let's chant the Holy Name. Haribol

What you say is not very far from truth but I think it to be a little discouraging for some body who wants to engage in a spiritual path. We all know the kind of desire for enjoyement that you are discribing at each level that we are; but that does not mean that we have to be discourage and not try to engage ourself, and just seat down and chant up to the point where we are completly realised to move and do something else. Of course as anybody else srix29 will experiment dificulties and big doubts in is spiritual life, but let them come at their time. There is no other way to advance than to go throught these dificulties. But you are right, let's chant the Holy Name. Haribol

How is it so that there are so many interpretations of the vedic litterature? Just compare different translation of Bhagavat Gita, you will find as much interpretations as translator.

Hi, I am not sure to anderstand what you mean when you say: --As we all know that the time factor is completely different in the elevated planets above earthly time factors. We recieve the benefit only in the life after but thats like the benefit we get for being vaccinated for life.I hope the point made is clear.-- I am not so sure that spiritual activites have to be perform to get result only in our next lifetime. In fact the results are practically speaking immediate otherwise nobody would be able to maintain a strict and austere way of life without getting any joy in is heart. Even yogis can perform great austerites only because they get satisfaction by executing these austerites. You cannot give up a pleasure if you don't feel a greater pleasure by this abandon. The only thing is that we all have a different level for this capacity to give up material attachements. We are just ready to give it up to some level. When our "breaking point" is reach, the tendancy to go back to temporary gratification manifest very urgely. Of course nothing is loose, but we have to again suffer in order to be push again to spiritual practices. And little by little we will progress on the path up to the point where we will get a true realisation and never come back to material sense gratification. At that time maya will become more and more subtle, but this is an other story. Haribol

Dear gtam, I agree with all of what you are saying, nevertheless whatever you say is much more easy to say than to practice. Of course you have to do your duty (= follow a kind of discipline) as well materialy that spiritualy. But there is a great difference which is that if you don't perform your material duty you will get an immediate result, whereas if you don't perform your spiritual duty the result is not comming as quickly. In fact maya (illusion) is so strong that if you have any doubt in your mind about performing your whoshiping of God, It will give you all good reasons not to do it. So unless you are very fixed up in your mind or you are in a very good association of devotees, a steady performance of spiritual discipline is not so evident even if you are convince of it's necessity. Your servant