Dasha

To Bhakta Shakta: Maybe you should read the topic named "Audarya fellowship", where JNDAS Prabhu as given some indications on what should be the type of posting in this forum. This posting is maybe a confidantial one, but it is also pure nectar, and there should be more on this forum. You have no obligation to read it. The pastimes of Radha and Krsna are also more than very confidential, but in His "Auradya" (magnanimity) Sri Chaytania Mahaprabhu came to discloses them, so that we can, fallen souls, get this nectar. To Jijaji: I do not allways agree with all of what you are posting , but you can go on posting this type of story, they are very enlivening. Even if you do it to "glorify yourself", this is your choise, I do not care and you can go on. Hari Haribol

I agree that it is not a good idea to call the forum "Krishna...something", since there is now newer subtitles in the forum and that everybody is not necesserily looking for Krsna. I would suggest to give a title that does not discribe the topics which are discuss in the forum, but the participant of the forum. As more or less everybody here is looking for the absolute truth, whatever it may be, we may call it: The forum of the seekers of the truth or something like that! Haribolo

Yes but in the westerners countries polygamy is not admitted, so you just have to practice "phalguna-vairagya" (?), or spend the family money with prostitutes, or go to see the wife of your neibourgh, or accept to burn into hell for a few kalpa !!!!!!!! Sorry but the choice is not very easy to do. To practice phalguna vairagya, I cannot do. To spend my money and time to see prostitutes is out of question, My neibourgh's wife (or else) do not interested me at all, So I just hope I will be able to keep chanting Hare Krsna into hell !!!!!! Haribol

Yes but in the westerners countries polygamy is not admitted, so you just have to practice "phalguna-vairagya" (?), or spend the family money with prostitutes, or go to see the wife of your neibourgh, or accept to burn into hell for a few kalpa !!!!!!!! Sorry but the choice is not very easy to do. To practice phalguna vairagya, I cannot do. To spend my money and time to see prostitutes is out of question, My neibourgh's wife (or else) do not interested me at all, So I just hope I will be able to keep chanting Hare Krsna into hell !!!!!! Haribol

OK for sastriks injunctions, but please tell me what is the worst in the following situation: You are a loyal husband, and for some reason or another (seakness or whatever) your wife does not want ( or can) anymore have sexual intercourses. But you still have sexual desires. So what is the best (or the worst): <LI>You go to visit your neibourgh's wife<LI>You regularly go to see a prostitute<LI>You free yourself from time to time from this strong sex urge that disturb your mind and your body Of course none of these are good as far as the scriptures are concern, but infortunately we are in kali yuga, and some time we have to do the best with the worst. As long as we are not pure enough we will have sex desires, so rather than to artificially try to stop sex urge, it seem to be better to behave intelingently. This remind me a story: Two sanyasis are walking together. On their way they meet a women on the shore of a river. She was crying because she could not cross the river. So one of the 2 sanyasis took her in his arm and help her to cross the river. On the other side he put her back on the ground, she thanks him, and the 2 sanyasis just go on their way. At the end of the day, the sanyasis who had not take the women in his arm ask the first one: "Dear Prabhu, please tell me,I cannot understand, you are a sanyasi, and as such you are not suppose to take a women in your arm. This is countrary to the scriptures and very dangerous for your spiritual life." The first sanyas ask: "What do you mean ? Which women do you speek about?" "The women that you help to cross the river, don't you remenber at noon, when you took her in your arm? "Oh yes, now I do, but you see, May be I keep her in my arm for a few minutes, but it seems that you have keep her in your mind for several hours" So what is the worst Either , when you really have the urge, you get rid of it by some mechanical mean, or you artificially try to control over it but you keep your mind fix on it for days, up to the point where you will anyway have to satisfy it. We always have a choise to do: Either you concentrate all day on how to get rid of sexual urge; or you concentrate as much as possible on your devotionnal service to Krsna, and just make some arrangements for some disturbances that may occur from time to time. For me it is sure that the second solution will lead progressively to be detached from sex attachement, as long as you are sincere in your effort to get rid of it. Let's cheerfully chant Hare Krsna Dasha

OK for sastriks injunctions, but please tell me what is the worst in the following situation: You are a loyal husband, and for some reason or another (seakness or whatever) your wife does not want ( or can) anymore have sexual intercourses. But you still have sexual desires. So what is the best (or the worst): <LI>You go to visit your neibourgh's wife<LI>You regularly go to see a prostitute<LI>You free yourself from time to time from this strong sex urge that disturb your mind and your body Of course none of these are good as far as the scriptures are concern, but infortunately we are in kali yuga, and some time we have to do the best with the worst. As long as we are not pure enough we will have sex desires, so rather than to artificially try to stop sex urge, it seem to be better to behave intelingently. This remind me a story: Two sanyasis are walking together. On their way they meet a women on the shore of a river. She was crying because she could not cross the river. So one of the 2 sanyasis took her in his arm and help her to cross the river. On the other side he put her back on the ground, she thanks him, and the 2 sanyasis just go on their way. At the end of the day, the sanyasis who had not take the women in his arm ask the first one: "Dear Prabhu, please tell me,I cannot understand, you are a sanyasi, and as such you are not suppose to take a women in your arm. This is countrary to the scriptures and very dangerous for your spiritual life." The first sanyas ask: "What do you mean ? Which women do you speek about?" "The women that you help to cross the river, don't you remenber at noon, when you took her in your arm? "Oh yes, now I do, but you see, May be I keep her in my arm for a few minutes, but it seems that you have keep her in your mind for several hours" So what is the worst Either , when you really have the urge, you get rid of it by some mechanical mean, or you artificially try to control over it but you keep your mind fix on it for days, up to the point where you will anyway have to satisfy it. We always have a choise to do: Either you concentrate all day on how to get rid of sexual urge; or you concentrate as much as possible on your devotionnal service to Krsna, and just make some arrangements for some disturbances that may occur from time to time. For me it is sure that the second solution will lead progressively to be detached from sex attachement, as long as you are sincere in your effort to get rid of it. Let's cheerfully chant Hare Krsna Dasha

Very good JNDas, That's maybe the best answer to do! Hari Haribol

Thank Gauracandar, you just gave the definition of ISKCON I would have like to give. Krsna says that He is God, the ISKCON members beleive what He says and so they whorship Him. There may be some time some sectarian behaviors, but Srila Prabhupada's mouvement is everything but a sect. Everybody who wants to whorship God can come in any ISKCON temple and whorship Him, take nice prasadam, chant His Names and take to devotionnal service. They may be Hindus, Christians, Jewes or Muslims it does not matter as long as they have the desire to serve God. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>As prema-bhakti is the aim in Iskcon, this aim won't be attained only because one is a member of the institution, due the lack of guru-pranali. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes, but Krsna as Paramatma is in your heart and can direct you whenever He wants to a bonafide guru who can pick you up for this world of nescience. He says in the Bhagavad Gita that whatever step you have done is never lost, so even if by bad fortune you do not find "your" guru in this life time you will go on the same way in your next life. This life or the next, what is the difference for Krsna, it is just a question of time, and Krsna is also the all-devouring time (as He says in the Gita too). So too come back to ISCKON, maybe there is a lack of gurupranali for the time been (I would not juge of that by myself), but this mouvement is meant to go on as long as there will be sincere devotees wanting to preache the message of Lord Chaytania Mahaprabhu. If this desire is bonafide in the mouvement, then Krsna been The Supreme Person as all the facilities to make it going on. No blade of grass can move whithout the sanction of the God. What to speak of His mouvement. Let us chant the Holy Name and dance in extasy. Hari Haribol.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Surrender of the heart alone will suffice and that is uniquely personal, only between you and your God. Don't let anyone or anything come between the two of you. Have faith in God and His Divine Grace alone, Krsna and Radha. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> So if I understand you well we do not need to take a spiritual master to understand the way back home, back to Godhead. So please can you explain me why did Sri Krsna and Sri Chaitanya who are God Himself, took a spiritual master when they manifest on earth to show us the "dharma" of the age? If you think that you are pure enough to understand the inner instructions of Paramatma in your heart, this is well, but for the commun of the mortal (of whom I am a part), we need the help of the spiritual master to decrypt them. When you are in a labyrinth you may try of your own to get out of it, or else you may ask the help of some one who knows the way. Of course nobody will bother you if you want to do it by yourself, or you may ask to God to show you the way, He will surely do it since He is in your heart, you just have to chant His Holy Names. It may also take a few years, not to say a few lifes. It is all hope to you, but for me the choise is already done. Haribol

Dear jijaji, This is a great work that as been done, and it gives good explanations on some philosophical questions about Krsna consciousness. I just have a hard time to understand what you mean exactly when you speak about preaching. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Preaching is not a greater service to Krsna than contemplation. The often (mis-)quoted verse ya idam paramam guhyam madbhaktesvabhidhasyati (Gita, 18.68) contains the words madbhaktesu, proving that this verse describes Krsna-katha amongst the devotees, not disturbing of the minds of the ignorant, which is condemned earlier in the Gita.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>"God cannot be attained by preaching lectures, nor with the intelligence, nor by hearing a lot of scripture. He is attained only by him upon whom He confers His grace. To this person He will reveal His transcendental body."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Where is the mercy of the spiritual master in all of that? Chaitanya came to teache us to spread this sankirtana mouvement. This is preaching to every fallen soul out of compassion. If Srila Prabhupada would not have done it, where would we be now? The grace of God is to send is pure devotee to preache His glories. Even if he not the doer, he has the credit to have done the job. Personnaly I preferred to meditate for myself rather than to go out to preache, but I admire those who are able to do it every day to save the fallen souls that we are. I hope that I am wrong and this topic is not another criticicism against the work that have done Srila Prabhupada. Your in Krsna consciousness, Dasha

One of my old friend lost his wife a few years ago from a generalise cancer. My friend his a very good devotee of Krsna and so was his wife. Recently he told me the following: A few days before her departure from this world, I was reciting to my wife a story from Chaytania Caritamrimta discribing the attributs of Srimati Radharani who use to take 3 bathes a day: The morning in a bath of youth, at noon in a bath of luster and on the evening in a bath of mercy... At that point my wife stop me gently and, removing her oxygen mask, told me with a sweet voice: "I had a dream last night; I was bathing in a pound with two gopis....There was Srimati Radharani ....And as I was bathing in the water, I was feeling in myself: Oh! how mercifull this water is, how mercifull it is. But I did not knew that water could be mercifull, I did not knew"... Then a tear want out of her eyes, just like it is discribe in the scriptures: like in a syringe. After her departure, when I told this story to my Gurudeva, Srila Gaur Govinda Maharaja, he told me: "you see, she already had a vision of where she was going..." Sorry, I almost forgot to give you the name of my friend's wife. Her spiritual name was "Yamuna devi dasi" Yours in Krsna consciousness Dasha

It is said that Krsna came to this earth 5000 thousands years ago to reestablish the teaching of Bhagavad Gita because the disciplic succession have been broken, and He had to restore it. How is it that Krsna gave this teaching to a ksatrya and not a brahmana? and I never read anywhere that Arjuna got any disciple. So how could he transmit it ? Cheers Dash

Thank you JNDAS, this was my feelings. Long ago I red that "when the disciple is ready the spiritual master manifest". It is also said that the spiritual master and the disciple have an eternal relationship (janme janme prabhu se). Does that mean that we keep the same spiritual master up to our going back home back to Godhead ? Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja used to say:"Pray sincerely to Srila Prabhupada and Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu"... "They will guide you..." Do we have to go to India or should we wait that we meet some authetic guru in our country ?, so many older devotees are coming but spiritual life is not a lotery. I was a disciple of Bhagavan das who had fall down, do I have to get another spiritual master or if I sincerely follow Srila Prabhupada's instructions (as many of my god brothers do) will it be good enough at least for this lifetime ? Thank you for your lights. Your fallen servant, Dash

Also I know what some of you will say about it, I would like to have the opinion of devotees in contact with ISKCON on this article that I have read on the site http://www.krishna.org/Articles/2001/02/00263.html. --------- In the meantime the devotees in Bangalore are being initiated by Srila Prabhupada personally. When the Temple President considers a devotee to be ready for initiation he writes a letter recommending the devotee to Srila Prabhupada. Then the devotee goes before Srila Prabhupada and prays: "Dear Srila Prabhupada currently your ritvik representatives are not doing their service so I am asking you to please accept me as your disciple and inspire me to select a spiritual name." So in this way the ISKCON Bangalore devotees are being initiated by Srila Prabhupada. --------- Is it so easy to become the disciple of any Guru you have choise ? Cheerfully Dash

It always makes me sad to see that christianity refers to God as an old white-bearded person who simply renders justice sitted in an armchair. How cam we be captivated by such a God, when you know that Krsna is so beautifull with His lotus eyes, always joyfull, playing flute to captivate His playmates. Krsna means the all-attractive. God must be all-attractive, so God is Krsna. How foolish have we been to forgot it !!!!!!! Now let us pray so that he will allow us to go back to His Divine service. By His mercy even this prayer is pure nectar, so we simply need to chant His Holy Names: Hare Krsna Hare Rama. Dear brothers sisters and prabhus, keep chanting the Holy Name with humility and very soon you will see how Krsna is beautifull. All glories to Sri Sri Radha Krsna.

Why such a relentlessness against Prabhupada? I understand that you (shvu, Jayasriradhe...) who are following other philosophical current may not always agree with the way that Prabhupada spread the vedic philosophy, but if you find fault on the manner, is there fault on the goal? Isn't it true that we have to developp love for God? Did you ever red Prabhupada biography? He was preaching Bhagavad-Gita long before to come in New-York. He almost left his is body on the boat that bring Him to New-York. And at the beginning of the mouverment it was not so easy: he had no money, nobody to help him, He was just depending on Krsna's mercy. May be he had to adapt the philosophy so that we (westeners) could accept it. But did he do it to mislead people and exploit them ? The way you see ISKCON now is not necessarly the way that Prabhupada had like it to be. He never ask people to be fanatical. If somebody is, that is in his nature, he never learned it in the mouvement at least at the time where Prabhupada was there). Infortunetly fanatics are attracted by spiritual mouvement, but Prabhupada was not a fanatic and he never ask anybody to be fanatic. Just when you NEED to have strict rules to guide you on the right path, it is easy to fall into fanatisism because when you are neophite you do not understand so much the aim of what you do and fanatisism is what you need to help you keep the way. (I personnaly know what I speak about). But when you grow up in your spiritual life fanatisism leave the room to a higher vision. ------- SPG: Good, you have understood the secret marketing technique very well. ------- If it was "marketing" that Prabhupada did, then marketing was used to serve God and it is sublimated by the way. Your "dream" could be funny but it is a little bitter. Haribol

Dear Prabhus, please accept my most humble obeisances. It is a real chance to read such posting on the Net. This web is carrying so many garbages, and so few trancendental words. By the divine mercy of Lord Krsna we are able to capture this nectar. You have so much faith in Lord Govinda that I beg your mercy so that I can get a little bit of it. Every day I am chanting Japa but I am not Narada Muni to whom Krsna has manifested himself as soon as he starts his meditation upon His Lotus Feet. Rather I am chanting and chanting and there is no Krsna coming, but I will not compare myself to the great sage Narada. Prabhupada said that it is almost impossible that we see Krsna in this life time. But how can I keep my faith if I do not have the association of devotees. Some days it is very difficult since maya is very cunning. So please go on posting your messages of divine love without care for the eventual envious non-beleivers that may read them. This is the food that I need to nourish my faith and pursue my spiritual life. I am intoxicated by these topics and I need my daily dose, just like I need to chant Japa on the morning. Who'ever we are, we will never go back to Godhead if we do not get the mercy of the Lord's devotees, so be kind and give me your mercy so that I can get strong faith in the process of devotional service to the Lord. Thank you for your association, Jaya Sri Sri Radha and Krsna.

Once Prabhupada said: "Before me, many swamis went to the Western countries to preach this Bhagavad-gita. Not a single person became a devotee of Krishna. Not a single person. And now Bhagavad-gita is being presented as it is, thousands are becoming devotee of Krishna. This is the secret. People give me credit that "Swamiji, you have done wonderful. Nobody could do it." I am not a wonderful man. Neither I do know anything magic. I have presented Bhagavad-gita as it is. That's all. This is the secret." -- Srila Prabhupada This as to be meditate upon. Cheers

Dear seekers of love of God What is all this noise about ? Are we going to fight and have bad words because of different interpretation on BG ? I cannot beleive. Narada Muni said to Sri Vyasadeva in the Srimad Bhagavatam (1-5-11): "...Such trancendental literatures (those who discribe the names, forms and pastimes of the Supreme Lord), EVEN THOUGH IMPERFECTLY COMPOSED (abaddhavati), are heard, sung and accepted by PURYFIED MEN WHO ARE THOROUGHLY HONEST." May be Srila Prabhupada made mistakes in the translation of BG, but his goal was to infuse in our heart love of God, not to teach us sanskrit language. The tree should not hide the forest. Srila Prabhupada was not a professor of sanskrit but a professor of Bhakti, and he said that if he could simply bring one person back home back to Godhead his mission would have been successfull. As far as I know he fullfilled his mission (just read the postings about His Holyness Gaura Govinda Maharaja). As far as I am concerne this is by his divine grace that I gradualy advance on the path of Bhakti, and I simply do not mind if he did faults or not in his translations. I am looking for something else because he did bring us something else, and as long as you will look for the "from" you will miss the meaning. Dear brothers, please take pleasure in discussing topics about the glories of our beloved Sri Sri Radha and Krsna and let the nectar of divine love enter your heart. All glories to Srila Prabhupada who, although he did it with "imperfect words" has delivered attachement to Radha and Krsna. Your, in Krsna consciousness.

Dear Prabhus, What is all this noise made for? What is this question of "Original Form" about? I am not a scholar and as such I will not debate with you on that level, but what difference does it makes if Srila Prabhupada's BG is been accepted by other scholars or not. The real question is: Does Srila Prabhupada's BG can take you to the level of love of God or not. Because this is the aim of the teaching of BG. If the answer is YES, so follow Srila Prabhupada because He will brings you to perfection. But if you think that the answer is NO, so follow someone else in whom you have confidence. If you have no faith in somebody do not follow him because whatever effort he will make there will be no results. In the Srimad Bhagavatam, (1-5-11) Narada Muni said to Sri Vyasadev that "such transcendental litteratures (that is directed towards the glorification of the name, form and pastimes of the Supreme Lord), EVEN SO IMPERFECTLY COMPOSED (abadhavati) are heard, sung and accepted by purified men who are thorougly honest." May be Srila Prabhupada made mistakes in his translations, but he is infusing love of God in the heart of thousands of conditionned souls and this is the highest gift that no one as done. Hopping this love of God will come in my heart. All glories to Srila Prabhupada, even if there is fault in his books. Your in Krsna consciousness.

Dear Rajesh prabhu, Do not hang up like that. Yes what says your Guru Maharaja is true, but it is not because you avoid the situation where anger can manifest that you will be free from anger. It is in the battle that you see if you are a heros or a couard, not by hiding somewhere and waiting that your chivalrous nature comes out. You have first to accept you as you are, then practice sadhana to purify your heart and control your mind. And do not worry if you are sincere you will not fall down by reading some spiritual topics on this forum you can even find very nectarian posting that can stronger your faith and devotion. Your in Krsna consciousness Jaya Sri Sri Radha and Krsna

Yes these guys are dangerous fanatic. Just see how they treat the women. Their behavior is intolerable, and I am surprise that occidentals gouvernement do not try stronger to make them change their attitude through economical pression. Jaya Sri Krsna.

Dear Animeshji, Thank you for your stories on Buddha, they are very enlivening, and you can go on posting more. Buddha may not have preach love of God but his loving, tolerant and compassionate behavior toward other living entities is to be followed by everybody, including devotees who have sometime the tendency to disregard those who are "not in the line". All the different philosophies complement each other. Namaste

Dear Animeshji, Thank you for your stories on Buddha, they are very enlivening, and you can go on posting more. Buddha may not have preach love of God but his loving, tolerant and compassionate behavior toward other living entities is to be followed by everybody, including devotees who have sometime the tendency to disregard those who are "not in the line". All the different philosophies complement each other. Namaste

------------ "Therefore think of Me at all times and fight." "O Son of PrthA,(Arjuna)one who, having single MINDED love and attention,REMEMBERS Me uninterruptedly throughout his life, to that devotee,(raganuga-yogi) of constant devotion and concentration I am EASILY attainable." ------------ Krsna is saying that CONSTANT remembrance of Him while executing our duty is the only way to go back to His abode. He is directing Arjuna to fight AND never stop to think of Him. Elsewhere in this forum, on the Sanyasa topic, JNDAS Prabhu said that sanyasa (renuncement) means to execute his own duty but without the desire to enjoy material pleasure from it. In other words we may be a grihasta but have the sanyasa spirit if we execute our duty of father while absorbed constantly in divine love. My point is that you cannot always give up everything, and this not recommended. The example of Arjuna to who Krsna said to fight on the battle field, but HE HAD TO THINK OF HIM CONSTANTLY, is the best, but we are in the same condition. We have to execute our duty, but THINK OF KRSNA CONSTANTLY if we want to go back home. Is there anybody who can explain me how did Arjuna was able to concentrate on the battle and the fighting (in this situation you have to be very sharp if you want to keep alive) and at the same time be absorbed in KRSNA. It is the same for us, How can I do my job correctly and be thinking of KRSNA all day long. You can put only one thing at a time in the mind, if you are concentrate on your job you cannot think of KRSNA and vice versa. (I am not thinking of the blessed one whose duty is to serve KRSNA directly). In the Mahabarata we see how Arjuna was absorbed all day in the battle, how was he able to have KRSNA constantly in his mind at the same time? If anybody has an explanation, it would be welcome Your servant