Kulapavana

For many years I have been watching the struggles of our Movement in the West. There are many reasons behind our problems but it is clear that we need a broad base support for our preaching efforts, similar to laity in most Christian churches. At the same time we also need to spur a practical change in society in general, a move towards Vedic values and principles. The idea of a noble civilization is very powerful and has much support among people of the world. I can only think of one civilization that fills that bill: the Aryan civilization as presented in the Vedas. Aryans are people of any origin who adopt the social and spiritual culture of nobility as presented in the Vedas. What is very relevant today is the need to reestablish a true Aryan society based not on "noble race" but on NOBLE CULTURE idea... I believe that was the second part of Srila Prabhupada's mission. It is impossible to imagine the predicted (however limited) comeback of the Golden Age without recreation of such noble culture and society......we should preach the glories of the Holy Name and the benefits of a true Aryan society... the only way to really make a difference in the world. Hare Krishna!

When we (local Polish devotees) started actively preaching in Poland in the early eighties we used to cooperate with quite a few Catholics, even priests and nuns. Thanks to them we were able to bring into the country the first edition of Bhagavad Gita. We gave several hundred books to these people as a token of our appreciation and they were SELLING it to raise money for their projects! LOL! These were the days.... :-) I guess now they feel threatened... that is a good sign ;-)

I said: "For now just learn about it (Vedic Aryan concepts) - plenty of stuff you can google on this subject"

The hint was to use "Vedic Aryan" as the search phrase.

As to your other comments: it is a common Pawlow reaction of associating anything Aryan with nazi ideology. Certain intersts were hard at work for over 7 decades to brainwash people in that way.

And finally to the issue of Jews being descendants of Yadu's: I hope SP's letter will lay this matter to rest. Thanks for posting it! But it also goes to show you that one of the things people criticize Jews for - considering themselves of superior birth as a race = racism by classic definition - does not stop at the doors of our temples.

I said: "For now just learn about it (Vedic Aryan concepts) - plenty of stuff you can google on this subject"

The hint was to use "Vedic Aryan" as the search phrase.

As to your other comments: it is a common Pawlow reaction of associating anything Aryan with nazi ideology. Certain intersts were hard at work for over 7 decades to brainwash people in that way.

And finally to the issue of Jews being descendants of Yadu's: I hope SP's letter will lay this matter to rest. Thanks for posting it! But it also goes to show you that one of the things people criticize Jews for - considering themselves of superior birth as a race = racism by classic definition - does not stop at the doors of our temples.

With the onset of Kali-yuga the links between the world of Nagas, Rakshasas and our world gradually all but closed. They exist in a different time and space continuum and travel between these worlds is very difficult. Some demons mated with humans and their descendants are alive and quite well. Some UFO researchers think aliens are actually coming from the world of Nagas and Rakshasas. It is a very murky subject...

With the onset of Kali-yuga the links between the world of Nagas, Rakshasas and our world gradually all but closed. They exist in a different time and space continuum and travel between these worlds is very difficult. Some demons mated with humans and their descendants are alive and quite well. Some UFO researchers think aliens are actually coming from the world of Nagas and Rakshasas. It is a very murky subject...

I'm not sure what SP said on this subject, but I presented 4 general arguments against this idea. Without addressing any of them you jump to neo-nazi movements in the same breath. Even if it is a mere "observation" on your part the timing is interesting. Cant say that it suprises me though.

Aryan Revival Movement is my idea. I have been presenting for about a year and there is precious little you can google on it... But rest assured, it has nothing to do with neo-nazi movements.

I'm not sure what SP said on this subject, but I presented 4 general arguments against this idea. Without addressing any of them you jump to neo-nazi movements in the same breath. Even if it is a mere "observation" on your part the timing is interesting. Cant say that it suprises me though.

Aryan Revival Movement is my idea. I have been presenting for about a year and there is precious little you can google on it... But rest assured, it has nothing to do with neo-nazi movements.

mahak: "Jews are descendants of the Yadu dynasty"

I kinda doubt that very much prabhu, based on both Vedic and Jewish scriptural sources. On top of that their concept of God is primitive and un-Vedic. Many religious scholars in India say that Jewish religion is the worship of Lord Brahma, not Lord Vishnu. Their language is not related to sanskrit and their society is clearly non-Aryan in it's principles. I would say it's wishful thinking of Jewish devotees... ;-)

mahak: "Jews are descendants of the Yadu dynasty"

I kinda doubt that very much prabhu, based on both Vedic and Jewish scriptural sources. On top of that their concept of God is primitive and un-Vedic. Many religious scholars in India say that Jewish religion is the worship of Lord Brahma, not Lord Vishnu. Their language is not related to sanskrit and their society is clearly non-Aryan in it's principles. I would say it's wishful thinking of Jewish devotees... ;-)

no vote perpetuates the 2 party system - period. special interes people just have to bribe 2 sides = cheaper vote buying. I used to vote republicans in the past, but they have also shamelessly sold out to special interests in a wholesale matter.

libertarians are mostly pro-life, pro-gun and anti-big government, anti-free trade.

I have been making herbal tinctures for many years now, using mostly fresh herbs grown or wildcrafted by me. I have developed a very effective anti-parasitic formula that I have been selling to devotees for years. The herbs are:

Black Walnut (fresh green hulls)

Wormwood (leaf)

Tansy (leaf)

Cloves (dried buds)

All except cloves are grown by me in US (foothills of the Appalachian mountains)

The formula is very effective against all kinds of internal parasites (including candida) and works well as general digestive tonic (many devotees here use it after heavy feasting ;-) Many devotees going to India buy a lot of it. Anyway if interested leave me a personal note. Haribol!

The cost is $3 per fl oz (30ml) /8oz minimum/ + SH

Interesting point about the Rakshasa Ravana possibly being an Aryan at one time. Rakshasas are not even one of the human species, yet when they work within the framework of the Aryan culture one can consider them to be Aryans. Not all people in Ravana's kingdom were Rakshasas, but it was a place ruled by Rakshasas.

For eons, Aryan society existed side by side with other people, some indeed very primitive. After the departure of Krishna and the onset of Kali yuga Aryan civilization was gradually swallowed by the barbarians...

I have heard several stories about a tunnel starting under the Sugarloaf Mountain in Rio de Janeiro being the tunnel that once led to Lanka. Local legends speak of this tunnel leading to a golden kingdom on the other side of the ocean. Some devotee told me they went into it at one time but the ghosts were so powerful in there they had to turn back. That tunnel could have actually contained a space portal at one time, folding space and making long distance travel easy, just like similar devices mentioned in the Vedic scriptures.

I have heard several stories about a tunnel starting under the Sugarloaf Mountain in Rio de Janeiro being the tunnel that once led to Lanka. Local legends speak of this tunnel leading to a golden kingdom on the other side of the ocean. Some devotee told me they went into it at one time but the ghosts were so powerful in there they had to turn back. That tunnel could have actually contained a space portal at one time, folding space and making long distance travel easy, just like similar devices mentioned in the Vedic scriptures.

The nobility of a culture is based on the principles that make it's foundation. Truthfulness and respect for the shastras is one of them. You seem to accept the message of Ramayana very selectively: you accept it as a true description of wrongs done to "your people" (...why would you identify yourself with Rakshasas is beyond me...but lets accept it for now) yet you reject its spiritual and social conclusions. Many historical facts can bee seen quite differently based on the perspective of the viewer. In short: I guess I agree to disagree with you ;-)

UGP: "It appears Kulapavana is quite convinced that BVT said it. By presenting the scriptural side of the issue, it might encourage him to reexamine what BVT has actually said. Since Kulapavana is a BVT follower or at least admirer, I trust he would take it upon himself to examine his guru's remarks when presented with seemingly contradictory evidence from elsewhere"

I like and respect BVT, thats about it. Like yourself (I presume from your posts) I also responded just to concepts presented in the thread. What people say publicly may not always reflect the full picture on any given issue. And some people are even afraid to use their real name when going public. I have been examining "seemingly contradictory evidence" on many issues for many years and rarely try to pass a "final" judgement without observing what kind of fruit this issue bears in time. I do not claim to have great spiritual knowledge but I managed just fine using this approach through many, many big or small trials and tribulations since I joined in 1979. And I still have a great enthusiasm about spreading Lord Caitanya's mission... go figure... ;-)

Alpa-medhasa: "the beginning of Aryan culture revival will be when devotees are 100% engaged in the daily study of the Bhaagavatam"

I very much agree. We need devotees with solid understanding of spiritual and cultural basis of Krishna consciousnes and Vedic culture. I regularly talk about it when giving class. Much of our problems as devotees comes from shallow understanding of the shastra. We have to have a very deep, practical knowledge of Aryan culture before we can impart it to others without creating a disturbance. But we should not wait forever as time is not on our side. We need to train others as soon as possible to provide a broad base support for Lord Caitanya's movement. We are having a hard time maintaining our existing centers because of very limited support from general public. Many temples in the US function mostly on donations from the Indian community and devotees imported from Eastern Europe... Hare Krishna...

The idea about noble (Aryan) culture is not at all outdated. Many people in this world feel that current materialistic, consumption oriented culture of pretty much the entire world is very detrimental. Aryan society was set up in a very scientific and nonsectarian way to promote spiritual development and material well being for all it's members. Nothing outdated about that... :-)

Btw: I started a thread on Spiritual Discussion forum about the Aryan Revival Movement

He he... We will need all the help we can get! ;-)

For now just learn about it (Vedic Aryan concepts) - plenty of stuff you can google on this subject and SPREAD THE WORD! Stay in touch with interested people, discuss it with them, always respecting their concerns. I recently chatted with some American Indians about this idea. They were delighted to hear that their ancestral religious tradition has a Vedic basis. That is to say there is a very wide potential audience out there...

In this case a good result would be having many people advance in their Krishna Consciousness, leading happy and productive lives, infecting others with their enthusiasm for spreading Lord Caitanya mission to every town and village

and where did I advocate initiating people who do not follow all 4 regs? or giving sannyasa to women? (btw: I still have a problem with sannyasa given to anybody but qualified and mature brahminical candidates, but let us not go there for now ;-)

Jndas: "For pure devotees there are no risks as they are simply following the orders of the Supreme Lord who is guiding their every move"

We could start here by defining the term "risk" and go on for a while. But it seems to me you do not have the full appreciation what effort it can be even for a pure devotee to spread the Sankirtan Movement in the West. There are hints to that in Srila Prabhupada's recollections of his early days in US. Do not be simplistic. Next we could define the term "pure devotee" and go on for a while. Do not be overly miserly using this term... how do you know who is guiding their moves?

Thanks for the info Priitaa. I'm not sure I read any of his newer books, but if I was interested in the subject I would probably still buy them, even as I do not feel very comfortable about this way of making a living by a "faded" devotee. Sometimes devotees feeling bitter about things poison the ether even when they try to avoid it...

Thanks for the info Priitaa. I'm not sure I read any of his newer books, but if I was interested in the subject I would probably still buy them, even as I do not feel very comfortable about this way of making a living by a "faded" devotee. Sometimes devotees feeling bitter about things poison the ether even when they try to avoid it...