Kulapavana

Aha!! Now I know why I'm not making any progress after all these years of chanting! I've been chanting below the belt!!! ;-)

Aha!! Now I know why I'm not making any progress after all these years of chanting! I've been chanting below the belt!!! ;-)

Re: falling asleep in class. It was a slightly sarcastic remark on my part. Some of most strict pursuers of brahminical lifestyle would do much better if they realized their varna and acted accordingly, without having a constant guilt trip about their "less than brahminical" standards.

Just because you are a teacher on salary that does not make you a sudra. Many brahmanas in the past served kings as advisors and received steady monetary compensation. There were many types of brahmanas. Ksatriya soldiers routinely received steady pay from the king and that did not make them sudras.

Re: falling asleep in class. It was a slightly sarcastic remark on my part. Some of most strict pursuers of brahminical lifestyle would do much better if they realized their varna and acted accordingly, without having a constant guilt trip about their "less than brahminical" standards.

Just because you are a teacher on salary that does not make you a sudra. Many brahmanas in the past served kings as advisors and received steady monetary compensation. There were many types of brahmanas. Ksatriya soldiers routinely received steady pay from the king and that did not make them sudras.

While controversial, it is an important issue. In our tradition all proper gurus represent the sampradaya. Our tradition did not start, and will not end, with Srila Prabhupada.

I have found a nice statement in an older thread (forgive me Babhru for dragging it out... ;-)

Stonehearted: "There has beena misconception that Srila Prabhupada appointed 11 disciples as successor spiritual masters. The history shows that this is not what he did; he was formalizing what has previously been informal arrangements for chanting on beads and selecting disciples' names, and adding to that the responsibility for deciding who was fit for initiation, for the remainder fo his stay with us. This was to accommdate his declining health. This became understood as an appointment of successors, something he decried throughout his preaching as a cause for the breakup of his guru's institution, Sri Gaudiya Math.

This misunderstanding and the problems/abuses it spawned have generated a reaction in the form of an assertion that Srila Prabhupada named these folks as the first ritviks to initiate new disciples as his disciples within ISKCON for as long as the institution existed. This idea (popularly referred to as "ritvikphilosophy") is as mistaken as the first.

If you read all of Srila Prabhupada's books and lisen to all of his lectures, the only conclusion you can reasonably draw is that he intended to train his disciples to become fit to serve as spiritual masters after his disappearance. I have many old, dear friends in the ritvik camp. I understand and am very sympathetic with the concerns that move them to advocate this idea. No one has yet made the case, though, that this is what Srila Prabhupada intended--at least to my satisfaction."

I had come to the same conclusion in the early 80's and still support this wiew. That is exactly how our parampara worked for many centuries.

While an important factor, intelligence as measured by IQ (intelligence quotient) is not a sole factor in determining one's varna. The prevalence of a particular mode of nature (goodness, passion or ignorance) determines the varna. It is very safe to assume that GW Bush is dominated by ignorance.

Yes prabhu, I have met very nice devotees in Poland from a few different missions. I love them all! Variety is a spice of life (both spiritual and material ;-) I live in US now (Prabhupada Village) but the spread of Lord Caitanya's movement in Poland is both very dear and very inspiring to me.

From lack of response here one could assume that not much thought is given to your own varna. That is my general observation as well. Most devotees seem to think of themselves as brahmanas, even when they routinely fall asleeep during morning Bhagavatam class...

From lack of response here one could assume that not much thought is given to your own varna. That is my general observation as well. Most devotees seem to think of themselves as brahmanas, even when they routinely fall asleeep during morning Bhagavatam class...

Jagat prabhu, I respect your position and reasoning, and agree with many points you are making. I have met several "devotees" who have strong neo-nazi and anti-semitic inclinations arising out of personal ignorance and immaturity. Such people are certainly a blemish on our community. Still, such sentiments are not entirely irrational. Look around you. You do seem to notice some of the problems related to very negative actions of certain Jewish people in Israel and other countries. Immature and ignorant people will tend to stretch blame to all Jews, and blame them for all kinds of problems...guilty by association... that is a very common approach today: oversimplification, and our community of devotees is guilty of it in many, many ways...

Jagat prabhu, I respect your position and reasoning, and agree with many points you are making. I have met several "devotees" who have strong neo-nazi and anti-semitic inclinations arising out of personal ignorance and immaturity. Such people are certainly a blemish on our community. Still, such sentiments are not entirely irrational. Look around you. You do seem to notice some of the problems related to very negative actions of certain Jewish people in Israel and other countries. Immature and ignorant people will tend to stretch blame to all Jews, and blame them for all kinds of problems...guilty by association... that is a very common approach today: oversimplification, and our community of devotees is guilty of it in many, many ways...

"...Jews however want to censor all their critics by claiming "anti-semitic holocaust" is coming!"

I very much agree with that assesment. Vaishnavas should treat all people equally, and that means no discrimination and also no preferential status.

"...Jews however want to censor all their critics by claiming "anti-semitic holocaust" is coming!"

I very much agree with that assesment. Vaishnavas should treat all people equally, and that means no discrimination and also no preferential status.

...as far as I know Mt. Ararat has not lifted by much in the last 4 thousand years. It would take an enormous amount of rain (more than all water on Earth) to lift such an object to this height above sea level as existed 4 thousands years ago (and that is a well studied subject). If indeed it is an Ark it must be much, much older. Matsya-sarira and Vaivasvata Manu?

Srila Prabhupada wanted us to re-establish the Vedic society based largely on varnashrama dharma. It starts with each and every one of us. Do you know what is your varna and do you try to act accordingly?

Srila Prabhupada wanted us to re-establish the Vedic society based largely on varnashrama dharma. It starts with each and every one of us. Do you know what is your varna and do you try to act accordingly?

If ISKCON (GBC) really did that I would be shocked! (and it takes a LOT to shock me ;-)

We are naturally marginalized by the politicians in US and other western countries (even on a very local level) because we are a very small and disunited voter group. Any "radical change" in the desired direction would have to involve building a massive popular movement, engaged as much in spirituality as in politics.

Old Testament: you will be lucky to find more than a couple of statements that this scripture claims God said Himself. New Testament: these are based on words spoken by Jesus of Nazareth, a great prophet and self proclaimed Son of God. In the Vedas however, there are hundreds and hundreds of verses where God is quoted directly ("Sri Bhagavan uvaca:")

In christian tradition there are several types of angels. Guardian angel may refer to Paramatma. Other types may be Gandharvas. The Torah and Talmud references of Jahweh descending on a winged cherubim may also refer to Lord Brahma riding his Swan carrier. Many vedic scholars identify the supreme deity of the judaic tradition to be Lord Brahma, and some go as far as proclaiming Jesus of Nazareth to be an incarnation of Lord Brahma

On the issue of Jews being possibly the descendants of Yadu dynasty, here is a letter from Srila Prabhupada:

Letter to: Nayanabhirama

--

London

22 August, 1971

71-08-22

Philadelphia

My Dear Nayana Bhirama,

Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated 16th August, 1971 and have noted the contents carefully. Also I have received your check for $25.00 and I thank you very much for the same. Yes, if it is approved by the GBC then I have no objection if you and your wife go to Israel to help out there. Philadelphia temple has improved nicely under your supervision. So for the time being continue to develop it nicely. Nothing should be done hastily or haphazardly. Then when the temple is very firmly situated I have no objection for your going. So do the needful and ask Krishna to help you.

Because there is some similarity of the word Jew and Yadu so some historian or scholar, so called, created this notion. I have read it also in some paper. But even it is true, we have nothing to do with it. Lord Krishna killed his own dynasty under His personal supervision. So certainly Krishna didn't like the idea that future dynasties would be able to identify having Krishna's blood. Krishna has no material blood; neither He is different from His body. The example is given that Malayan sandalwood is famous as grown in Malaya but the fact is that sandalwood can grow anywhere. Nowadays in Malaya there are only rubber trees but still in the market the sandalwood is known as Malayan sandalwood. Similarly a family may become famous for Krishna taking birth in that family but Krishna is independent and can appear anywhere and everywhere, where His devotees are.

Hoping this will meet you in good health.

Your ever well-wisher,

A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

ACBS/adb

True Vaishnavas are not racist and they do not identify with any particular race, as this is material consciousness. "Vaishnava anti-semitism" or "Vaishnava pro-semitism" are both oxymorons and reflect similar material consciousness.

What you propose is strict censorship with respect to VNN editorial policy. If you suggest banning anti-semitic articles, should we ban editorials critical to christian faith as well? That can upset a lot of people too. Where do you draw a line? It is supposed to be an open forum, and you are free to write an article exposing the errors of such editorials based on sound Bhagavata philosophy. Debate is healthy, censorship can be very unhealthy.

without going into: "define who is a pure devotee"...

I have learned much from devotees whose purity may be questioned by some..

and that post above (to theist) was mine, I was not logged in..

without going into: "define who is a pure devotee"...

I have learned much from devotees whose purity may be questioned by some..

and that post above (to theist) was mine, I was not logged in..