Kulapavana

Theist: "By the grace of Krsna one gets guru, by the grace of guru one gets Krsna"

That is a nice statement. Ultimately it is a personal matter between guru and disciple. If you are sincere, you can learn from anybody.

Theist: "By the grace of Krsna one gets guru, by the grace of guru one gets Krsna"

That is a nice statement. Ultimately it is a personal matter between guru and disciple. If you are sincere, you can learn from anybody.

Plea to all of Srila Prabhupada's active disciples

by Gopakumar das

In the world of Western Gaudiya Vaisnavism there has developed a wonderful diversity in which the ecstacy of Caitanya Mahaprabhu and the philosophy of the Goswamis and Acaryas is expressed. Even under the direct family of Srila Prabhupada's disciples there are various expressions and preaching styles of Krishna Consciousness. Unfortunately, there have also been divisions, arguments, and a lack of cooperation amongst Godbrothers. As a neophyte devotee completely dependant on the mercy of senior Vaisnavas and the example they set I would like to see more unity amongst all disciples of Srila Prabhupada who are actively preaching in the mission of Mahaprabhu.

In fact, I would like to make a plea to all of Srila Prabhupada's disciples, especially those senior devotees who are actively preaching and/or accepting disciples. I request that as an expression of kindness and humility, qualities you have acquired or are cultivating, you unite with those Godsiblings of yours you most feel disconnected from or have most reservations about and attempt to cultivate affection for them and smooth out differences with them. This will mean extending yourself inside and outside of ISKCON to gather together those devotees who are also involved in preaching the mission of Lord Chaitanya.

I also ask every devotee reading this to please forward this plea to all spiritual leaders you know and watch as they live up to the humility and kindness they have cultivated. A united family under Srila Prabhupada will be most powerful while maintaining its own individual personality. I make this plea in order to satisfy the hankering of the younger and confused generation of devotees. I also make this plea to satisfy Srila Prabhupada who said:

We should not criticize each other, as Vaisnavas, because there is fault in everyone and we may be ourselves subject to criticism. Best thing is to be above suspicion ourselves, then if we see discrepancies and make suggestion the others will automatically respect and take action to rectify the matters. That is cooperation. And we must exist on such cooperation, otherwise the whole thing is doomed if we simply go on fighting over some small thing. So try to organize things and preach together in this spirit, and that will please me very, very much. (Letter to: Madhumangala, Hyderabad November 18, 1972)

May Nityananda Prabhu bless this request as he blessed and empowered our Srila Prabhupada to preach in the West. May this request be fulfilled in order to please His empowered representative.

This same Lord Nityananda is Ananta Sesa who cannot find enough diverse ways to preach the glories of the Lord and His associates even with His thousands of mouths. May this Gaudiya mission act as one unified entity with a thousand diverse voices of expression.

This same Nityananda is Balarama also known as Sankarsana or he who draws together. He draws together the families of Vrindavana. May he bring together our own family and allow us to thrive together offenselessly despite our differences in both style and sentiment.

Gopakumar das

...will be just like Earth in 2003. Full of contrasts, happiness and distress, promise and despair. What is relevant is your life TODAY, everyday. Do not waste a moment today, because 2011 may not come for you. Chant the holy name and be happy... today :-)

The following is a series of exchanges relevant to the topis of this thread, originally posted on thread: Why does everyone always blame the Jews?

On the issue of Jews being possibly the descendants of Yadu dynasty, here is a letter from Srila Prabhupada:

Letter to: Nayanabhirama

--

London

22 August, 1971

71-08-22

Philadelphia

My Dear Nayana Bhirama,

Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated 16th August, 1971 and have noted the contents carefully. Also I have received your check for $25.00 and I thank you very much for the same. Yes, if it is approved by the GBC then I have no objection if you and your wife go to Israel to help out there. Philadelphia temple has improved nicely under your supervision. So for the time being continue to develop it nicely. Nothing should be done hastily or haphazardly. Then when the temple is very firmly situated I have no objection for your going. So do the needful and ask Krishna to help you.

Because there is some similarity of the word Jew and Yadu so some historian or scholar, so called, created this notion. I have read it also in some paper. But even it is true, we have nothing to do with it. Lord Krishna killed his own dynasty under His personal supervision. So certainly Krishna didn't like the idea that future dynasties would be able to identify having Krishna's blood. Krishna has no material blood; neither He is different from His body. The example is given that Malayan sandalwood is famous as grown in Malaya but the fact is that sandalwood can grow anywhere. Nowadays in Malaya there are only rubber trees but still in the market the sandalwood is known as Malayan sandalwood. Similarly a family may become famous for Krishna taking birth in that family but Krishna is independent and can appear anywhere and everywhere, where His devotees are.

Hoping this will meet you in good health.

Your ever well-wisher,

A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

ACBS/adb

KP:

I said: "For now just learn about it (Vedic Aryan concepts) - plenty of stuff you can google on this subject"

The hint was to use "Vedic Aryan" as the search phrase.

As to your other comments: it is a common Pawlow reaction of associating anything Aryan with nazi ideology. Certain intersts were hard at work for over 7 decades to brainwash people in that way.

And finally to the issue of Jews being descendants of Yadu's: I hope SP's letter will lay this matter to rest. Thanks for posting it! But it also goes to show you that one of the things people criticize Jews for - considering themselves of superior birth as a race = racism by classic definition - does not stop at the doors of our temples.

Guest:

"As to your other comments: it is a common Pawlow reaction of associating anything Aryan with nazi ideology"

you are surely right, when i hear the word aryan and when i see a swastika i have some problems.. even if i am (badly) practising krsna consciousness from 20 years

KP:

Guest: "when i hear the word aryan and when i see a swastika i have some problems"

Yes, nazis grossly missused and twisted Aryan concepts and symbols and even seemingly mature and well informed devotees cringe when they hear the word Aryan or see the proper swasti mark on Sri-Yantras. Does it mean that we should cave in to the politically correct crowd and pretend such symbols and words are not a part of our Vedic tradition? Some people cringe when they hear the word "gurukula". Should we avoid it as well?

Guest:

you are surely right... but we have also to say that the most important thing (actually the only important thing) is to spread hare krishna mantra..

i should not want to loose any newcomer to krishna consciousness for the sake of putting somewhere (temple, altars, pictures of krsna, fire yajna, clothes, flags) a sign of swastika

so, let us be not shy of vedic culture but let us know that we are not here to challeng but for chanting and make others chant hare krishna.. everything else is not so important

Certainly: chanting of the Holy Names comes first, but we need to follow up with a broad base social structure. I will give you an example. If you were to believe a recent survey of religious affiliations in Poland, close to 50,000 people consider themselves to be "Hare Krishna". This is without doubt chiefly due to massive festival efforts of devotees like Indradyumna Maharaja. But the temples are struggling financially and have very few full time devotees. I think it is about time we started to work on creating a broad base social support movement to change that. The Aryan Revival Movement is an attempt along those lines.

Guest:

Big ambitions tend to lead to big letdowns. Slow and steady has its appeal, however.

Start with training up one person (yourself) and then work on training up two other people very nicely. Each of those individuals should then train up two more people each, and like that the movement will expand predictably - but not by filling itself with people who shave up one day and leave the very next - but rather with people who have strong conviction and stronger desire to see it through.

KP:

These are good points prabhu. I have been training myself since 1979 when I received my first initiation. I hope I'm about ready now ;-)

At one time most of Iskcon temples were full of devotees, they are quite empty now. The NY Brooklyn temple has like 6 devotees and all of them are imported from Eastern Europe. So much for "slow and steady".. ;-)

Stonehearted:

I don't think it's accurate to characterize my reaction as Pavlovian. It has been a couple of weeks (maybe more) since you started using the Aryan Revival signature (and is it not meant to be alitle provocative?), and I only raised the question after more than a few posts mentioning Jews.

As for eschewing the word aryan and the swastika, as brought up by another poster, I've always spoken against that. It's part of our business to show that aryan culture has nothing to do with the German paganism and antisemitism associated with the word over the last 70-odd years. That some devotees have tried to minimize Hitler's evil and show antisemitic sentiments hasn't helped.

KP:

Kulapavana: it also goes to show you that one of the things people criticize Jews for - considering themselves of superior birth as a race = racism by classic definition - does not stop at the doors of our temples.

Stonehearted: "And this is unique to Jews? The English, the Germans, the French (God, you name the group) all show this so plainly that it's remarkable to ignore it."

There is a difference between racism (considering themselves belonging to a superior race) and national pride as demonstrated by citizens of many powerful nations. In either case it is just a material consciousness. Anyway, I think we can safely drop this subject...

Historicaly, diksa gurus in our sampradaya represented many levels and flavours of Krishna consciousness. While GBC decisions regarding allowing different devotees to initiate disciples seem a little hasty at times, lets not be too quick to pass our judgement here. Urmila d.d. is a serious Vaishnava and has proven it with her life. May she inspire many people to take up Krishna consciousness! Haribol!

Historicaly, diksa gurus in our sampradaya represented many levels and flavours of Krishna consciousness. While GBC decisions regarding allowing different devotees to initiate disciples seem a little hasty at times, lets not be too quick to pass our judgement here. Urmila d.d. is a serious Vaishnava and has proven it with her life. May she inspire many people to take up Krishna consciousness! Haribol!

The grammar structure of slavic languages is very similar to sanskrit (these are complex and precise languages with huge vocabularies). There are similarities between words used to indicate numbers from 0 to 10 such as (here in Polish, another slavic language):

dvi - dva

tri - trzi

catur - chtery

panc - pienc

..and Brahma was worshipped by Slavs untill 12th century (at least) as god with four heads / faces, and was called Sveta-vid (one who sees or knows the entire world)

a disciple of the disciple of AC Bhaktivedanta Swami

No apology needed Yasodanandana, and I'm quite used to this kind of reaction in many devotees. Once the initial shock wears out they all see the light. I do not use the swasti yantra at all in my presentations. That would be seriously overdoing it... ;-)

Regarding the use of swastiks in Lord Nrisimha temple in Bavaria: it would have blended perfectly with this fierce and beautiful black form of Lord Krishna, and I'm sure it would have endeared us to the locals, but swastik display is illegal in Germany (humor intended).

Half of my family was killed fighting nazis in WW2 and believe me I understand the sensitivities and have no personal inclination in that direction.

No apology needed Yasodanandana, and I'm quite used to this kind of reaction in many devotees. Once the initial shock wears out they all see the light. I do not use the swasti yantra at all in my presentations. That would be seriously overdoing it... ;-)

Regarding the use of swastiks in Lord Nrisimha temple in Bavaria: it would have blended perfectly with this fierce and beautiful black form of Lord Krishna, and I'm sure it would have endeared us to the locals, but swastik display is illegal in Germany (humor intended).

Half of my family was killed fighting nazis in WW2 and believe me I understand the sensitivities and have no personal inclination in that direction.

Thank you for understanding stonehearted prabhu. Yes, the word "Aryan" was chosen deliberatly by me for it's thought provoking potential on top of it's true meaning. Very often I manage to create positive interest in the Vedic message in people for whom this word really means something: good... or bad. The longing for ideal society is expressed by many people, and in many ways. Some of these expressions are very perverted (like in neo-nazis), yet the longing is there and can be used to present Krishna consciousness to these people. One of the things that attracted me to Prabhupada many years ago was his revolutionary social message. That part of his mission is still unfulfilled...

Thank you for understanding stonehearted prabhu. Yes, the word "Aryan" was chosen deliberatly by me for it's thought provoking potential on top of it's true meaning. Very often I manage to create positive interest in the Vedic message in people for whom this word really means something: good... or bad. The longing for ideal society is expressed by many people, and in many ways. Some of these expressions are very perverted (like in neo-nazis), yet the longing is there and can be used to present Krishna consciousness to these people. One of the things that attracted me to Prabhupada many years ago was his revolutionary social message. That part of his mission is still unfulfilled...

Yasodanandana: "you are an initiated devotee, please work for spreading harinama and please avoid to scandalize people using terms and concepts that , for now, are not very well accepted"

I have been working to spread Harinama since 1979 and plan to continue. I apologize if I scandalized anybody here with "not very well accepted terms". Lord Caitanya's mission moves on many fronts and we all have a place in that mission to fill. Plenty of room for all sincere efforts... and enough criticism. Neglect of social and cultural side of this movement is already bearing it's bitter fruits. Do you not see them?

Yasodanandana: "you are an initiated devotee, please work for spreading harinama and please avoid to scandalize people using terms and concepts that , for now, are not very well accepted"

I have been working to spread Harinama since 1979 and plan to continue. I apologize if I scandalized anybody here with "not very well accepted terms". Lord Caitanya's mission moves on many fronts and we all have a place in that mission to fill. Plenty of room for all sincere efforts... and enough criticism. Neglect of social and cultural side of this movement is already bearing it's bitter fruits. Do you not see them?

Kulapavana: it also goes to show you that one of the things people criticize Jews for - considering themselves of superior birth as a race = racism by classic definition - does not stop at the doors of our temples.

Stonehearted: "And this is unique to Jews? The English, the Germans, the French (God, you name the group) all show this so plainly that it's remarkable to ignore it."

There is a difference between racism (considering themselves belonging to a superior race) and national pride as demonstrated by citizens of many powerful nations. In either case it is just a material consciousness. Anyway, I think we can safely drop this subject...

Kulapavana: it also goes to show you that one of the things people criticize Jews for - considering themselves of superior birth as a race = racism by classic definition - does not stop at the doors of our temples.

Stonehearted: "And this is unique to Jews? The English, the Germans, the French (God, you name the group) all show this so plainly that it's remarkable to ignore it."

There is a difference between racism (considering themselves belonging to a superior race) and national pride as demonstrated by citizens of many powerful nations. In either case it is just a material consciousness. Anyway, I think we can safely drop this subject...

Yes, I have a very high oppinion about efforts of Siddhasvarupananda and his disciples and associates all over the world. When I was in Poland 3 years ago I talked to several of his disciples and went on Harinam with them. It was very refreshing to see these young enthusiastic devotees perform great sounding kirtan. I certainly did not intend to take the credit away from them. I just used an example most devotees know about.

Yes, I have a very high oppinion about efforts of Siddhasvarupananda and his disciples and associates all over the world. When I was in Poland 3 years ago I talked to several of his disciples and went on Harinam with them. It was very refreshing to see these young enthusiastic devotees perform great sounding kirtan. I certainly did not intend to take the credit away from them. I just used an example most devotees know about.

These are good points prabhu. I have been training myself since 1979 when I received my first initiation. I hope I'm about ready now ;-)

At one time most of Iskcon temples were full of devotees, they are quite empty now. The NY Brooklyn temple has like 6 devotees and all of them are imported from Eastern Europe. So much for "slow and steady".. ;-)

These are good points prabhu. I have been training myself since 1979 when I received my first initiation. I hope I'm about ready now ;-)

At one time most of Iskcon temples were full of devotees, they are quite empty now. The NY Brooklyn temple has like 6 devotees and all of them are imported from Eastern Europe. So much for "slow and steady".. ;-)

Certainly: chanting of the Holy Names comes first, but we need to follow up with a broad base social structure. I will give you an example. If you were to believe a recent survey of religious affiliations in Poland, close to 50,000 people consider themselves to be "Hare Krishna". This is without doubt chiefly due to massive festival efforts of devotees like Indradyumna Maharaja. But the temples are struggling financially and have very few full time devotees. I think it is about time we started to work on creating a broad base social support movement to change that. The Aryan Revival Movement is an attempt along those lines.

Certainly: chanting of the Holy Names comes first, but we need to follow up with a broad base social structure. I will give you an example. If you were to believe a recent survey of religious affiliations in Poland, close to 50,000 people consider themselves to be "Hare Krishna". This is without doubt chiefly due to massive festival efforts of devotees like Indradyumna Maharaja. But the temples are struggling financially and have very few full time devotees. I think it is about time we started to work on creating a broad base social support movement to change that. The Aryan Revival Movement is an attempt along those lines.

Guest: "when i hear the word aryan and when i see a swastika i have some problems"

Yes, nazis grossly missused and twisted Aryan concepts and symbols and even seemingly mature and well informed devotees cringe when they hear the word Aryan or see the proper swasti mark on Sri-Yantras. Does it mean that we should cave in to the politically correct crowd and pretend such symbols and words are not a part of our Vedic tradition? Some people cringe when they hear the word "gurukula". Should we avoid it as well?

Guest: "when i hear the word aryan and when i see a swastika i have some problems"

Yes, nazis grossly missused and twisted Aryan concepts and symbols and even seemingly mature and well informed devotees cringe when they hear the word Aryan or see the proper swasti mark on Sri-Yantras. Does it mean that we should cave in to the politically correct crowd and pretend such symbols and words are not a part of our Vedic tradition? Some people cringe when they hear the word "gurukula". Should we avoid it as well?