Haridasdasdas

Lord Brahma didn't say any rules to chanting Hare Krishna in Kali Santarana upanishad.

Everyone should chant Hare Krishna, you are completely correct. The regulative principles established within the Gaudiya Sampradaya are secondary and subordinate to the chanting of Hare Krishna.

I Eat Meat, I think its fine, Its in our nature. I wonder if cavemen knew how to farm or not??

1. Don't necropost. This thread is from 3 years ago!

2. Follow Dharma, stop manufacturing principles based on flawed speculation and your own selfish desires. Clearly it has been described several times in this post that there should be no meat eating.

3. You are not a 'Caveman', although I can see from your post why you made the mistake.

4. If you are going to reply to a 3 year old thread AT LEAST READ IT FIRST. Your unintelligent stance has been defeated several times.

There is certainly inconsistancy on your part. Quit hiding behind Prabhupada's dhoti. I was talking about you not Prabhupada. I explained my thoughts on his temporary bridge program from unprotected to protected cows.

 

Mahavishnu Swami's idea is not a new one. I have heard it many times before. It also comes in different forms like 'It's ok to steal someone's wallet because we are devotees and use the money in Krishna's service. Afterall they may not be able to buy baby food but they will get some ajnata sukriti":rolleyes:

 

Do as you like. Nothing further for us to discuss on this topic. You may be in for a surprise though to find your consumption of milk from tortured and murdered cows is not so karma free afterall.

Yes, and you can keep making things up as you will. Perhaps if you weren't so inimical towards sanyassis you might know that they don't wear dhotis.

Your stand shows a lack of faith in Srila Prabhupada, who said that even if the milk comes from dairies that sell cows to slaughterhouses, we should continue offering it to Krishna, who looks after his devotees.

shastra is the origin out of the lord , and a self-realised saint is the lord's own form.. so the above stages of dawn of new age is much much way in future which is definate while with their efforts of positive vibes, many spiritual people are altering what worst could happen ! so go and listen to people wearing orange robes, i prefer sitting near the self-realised saints... for im the sinful in my being, done no good deed and a fool that im ! so i all care to see what is all my God is here for ~ the play eternal !!!

I'm very sorry, I can't understand your English very well, so I can't fully reply to everything you say.

What makes a person a 'self realised saint'? There are so many people claiming that they are this or that, but what is your basis for saying this? Who are these saints and why are they saintly?

If you don't beleive in the Vedic traditions, why are you in this forum, and why do you have Yasoda Krsna as your picture? Clearly you have some understanding, so you can appreciate that to be recognised as any kind of spiritual teacher, you have to be in a bona fide samparadaya, and your teachings need to be in conjunction with sastra, and not simply made up.

To me it sounds like some more new age nonsense. You even say 'new age' in your message. What does this have to do with Rama? If you want to be a warrior for Rama, then go and practise Dharma, this airy-fairy nonsense is only suitable for drugged up hippies, it has nothign to do with Dharma.

Ok you have already agreed that drinking milk from unprotected cows supports cow killing. Srila Prabhupada has emphasised cow protection. So clearly drinking milk from unprotected cows is against the instruction of Srila Prabhupada to protect cows.

 

 

 

Now many people are willing to break that instruction citing he himself drank milk from unprotected cows. This is inconsistent.

 

 

Another inconsistency is that he also gave instructions to start farms and keep protected cows and use their milk exclusively.

 

 

 

I wish he had not allowed milk from unprotected cows to be used but he did. But clearly he did that with the idea that it was a temporary bridge to the time when Iskcon would be protecting their own cows and using only that milk at all the temples.

 

 

 

That never happened. So many devotees ignore the instructions on cow protection and doing their own cow protetion (largely, I know of some devotees that have worked hard on farm projects) but still drink commercial milk.

 

 

But never mind what Iskcon does I am asking you as an individual to take a stand against the further exploitation of cows and drink milk only from protected cows.

 

 

I would add that it would be very helpful to support the few devotees who are hard at work engaging in self sufficient farmng and cow raising right now. Some have made heroic efforts with seemingly little help from the big wigs of the Iskcon authorities.

I don't think there is an inconsistency on the part of Srila Prabhupada, since Mahavisnu Swami suggests that devotees should always offer the products of the cows to Krishna in order to releive their suffering. That is, of course, if it is impossible to obtain milk from well-kept cows.

So why in this case did Srila Prabhupada never suggest that devotees should abstain from milk?

I apologise, I'm confused, and I'm certain that this issue had been brought to him before.

I was wanting to ask the same question Haridas das asked, but I knew that I would have worded it more coarsely, and affected adversely someone's creeper. Haridas das has phrased it well.

jeffster/AMd

Yes, that occurred to me. It was a difficult question to ask actually, I don't like to offend people, and I've met some really nice Narayana Maharaj devotees, I wouldn't want to offend them either.

He recommends reading CC and SB. There are others of those available in english now though not as widespread as ISKCON's versions. The devottees in UK read those. I don't have a taste for Prabhupada's purports.

I will stop writing here because I don't want to offend anyone. I received information about some direct disciples of SNM in America. A few ladies and ex-sanyasis who are supposed to be very learned and advanced and wonderful speakers so I will try to contact them. That is all I wanted. I did not want to turn it into a debate on the merits or demerits of a particular commentator of devotional literature. Please forgive me for unintended offense. I want to bow to all devottees, big and small. Haribol.

Srila Narayana Maharaj is a bona fide Guru in a bona fide sampradaya, so really it's all good.

The style of writing does not appeal to me and some of the things written in the purports as well.

 

SNM does not read his books for his own personal reading. He sometimes reads from them when he is on world tour giving a class because there is no other version in English that he knows of and the majority of the audience is from ISKCON anyway and that is what they want and expect, I guess. That I saw when I went to the festival in UK. None of the Indian devottees read his books for their own reading, so I was told by the UK devottees. They all read books in their own languages.

 

This is one of the differences between the Indians and the western devottees in his sanga. As well as between his direct disciples and those who are from ISKCON. The UK devottees feel it is a natural split.

 

Nobody should be hurt. Everybody has different style, mood, thinking.

You like some books I don't and probably will not like some books that I do. It's normal. I did not mean this to become about ISKCON or Prabhupada or his books. I just asked if anyone knew some direct disciples not from ISKCON. Sorry.

That's fair enough, as long as you understand the importance of the Bhagavatam and the Chaitanya Caritamrta.

I don't know what is taught in Narayana Maharaj circles about the relationship with Iskcon, but I know Sri Caitanya Saraswat Math teach that their activities are supplementary and not independant. Is this also the case for Narayana Maharaj?

Noh ?? why so ?? well, it is the most probable thing , as far as i have known from many saints and 84 siddhas and hopefully their words dont go wrong in any case !

There will always be some saint who says some thing and another saint who says something else.

What does it say in scripture? Only sastra is definite, nothing else is infallible.

That website all seemed a bit new-age to me.

I'm sorry for my cynicis, but these predicitons are a dime a dozen, often just some plea for attention.

How interesting.

Does this man charge much money? What sampradaya is he in? What scriptural basis is there for his being Kalki, and who is it that made this claim initially? He seems to have captured your heart so I would be interested to hear what oyu have to say as his devotee.

Simply saying that you have some extra material wealth is not sufficient. The Visnu tattva do nto descend for the purpose of giving people money, they descend to annihalate the miscreants and to restore dharma. In Sri Kalki's case it is for the purpose of annihalating the demoniac class. How does this Kalki Bagavan propose to do this? All avatars are written in Sastra, and Sastra is infallible.

EDIT: I have found for myself the sayings of this man, and clearly he does not claim to be the Avatar Kalki, but has his own concoction of what an avatar is, and has 'come to accept' the title of Kalki. This is the kind of nonsense that turns people into maoists.

Thankyou everybody for the instructions. I did not mean my simple question to turn into a conversation about institutionalism but that seems to be something that is on everybody's mind. I thought that this was a website that was not from ISKCON and therefore asked how to find Narayan Maharaja followers in America who were not followers of Prabhupada, like the devottees I met in UK who's classes were very inspiring. Since my question I have been given the contacts of some people who are direct disciples of Narayan Maharaja in America. I have heard that there are more and will look into that. This was the only website I found that I thought could answer me that.

I'm shocked that it hasn't been asked yet, but why exactly is it that you don't like the writings of Srila Prabhupada?

It is my understanding that Narayana Maharaj uses the Srimad Bhagavatam and Chaitanya Caritamrta of Srila Prabhupada. These scriptures are essential to one's progression beyond the neophyte stage.

It is not simply a matter of 'books', it is a matter of Sastra, scripture. You like Narayana Maharaj and the books he has written, but he also uses the translations of Srila Prabhupada, so why are you inimical to them?

This has to be one of the most foolish statements possible on the subject.

 

 

Get a little education on the subject haridasdas before you speak.

I understand fully the nature of the milk industry. Your post stated that milk is poison. Not that the milk sold in the western supermarkets from the maltreated cows whose offspring are slaughtered is poison, you said milk is poison.

From that statement, I made the judgement that you don't beleive in taking milk, even under circumstances in which the cow is treated nicely and the calves are not killed.

Is that what you meant? I apologise if I made some mistake.

Edit: By Atheists and cow killers I'm referring to what I'd term the 'anti-milk crusade', which is currently sweeping America. They like to misrepresent facts about lactose intolerance and say that milk is indigestible. It's popular amongst people who love to eat cows and other dead animals.

atleast they have factualized everything with the help of advanced spiritual people !

Sarcasm?

are you saying the names 'narayara' and krishna refer to one and the same supresoul ?

 

Isn't it true that GAUDIYA and ISKON devotee's believes that narayana has four less auspicious qualities compared to krishana. Narayana who stays in Vaikunta is not the ultimate goal for the devotees. The ultimate goal is the goloka where krishna is serving his devotees

I beleive so, but I might be wrong. Also, it is spelt ISKCON.

It has become the habit of a few people in this forum to abuse Adi Shankara.

1. Please remember it was Adi Shankara, who re instated Hinduism in India. Otherwise India would have been a country of Buddhists and Jains ( or may be muslims and Christianns)

2. Even one of your Great Vaishnavas Rajaji has observed that " Adi Shankara, drank the ocean of Knowledge as easily as one sips water from ones own hand".

3. So before making any abusive comments on Shankara, think what you will be in his absence.

4. None of the Advaitins, or Smarthas, or Shaivites are making abusive comments about "YOUR" Raghavendra, or Ramanuja or PrabhuPadha

5. So its only civility and commonsence to abstain from offending Shankara.

Hope I am making myself clear.

Adi Shankara is the incarnation of Siva(hence the name), so Vaisnavas shouldn't commit offenses to him.

Also I think Caitanya is a better person to compare to Ramanuja than Srila Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada. Caitanya was the initiator of Gaudiya practises, Shrila Prabhupada was following the teachings of Caintanya 400 years later. He was not creating his own beleif system.

What a load of nonsense. Milk is the bringer of life and health and is mentioned as such in the Vedas. The Vedic literatures say nothing about poison. Maybe it's poison if it comes from abused cows fed on bad food, but in it's natural state it is not poison.

This new American anti-milk fad is led by atheists and cow killers, why are you listening to these people?

Sounds Kirtanananda-esque to me. If any of the Acaryas wanted this inter-faith stuff, why wouldn't they have established it long ago? Why are Vaisnavas reading unreliable Buddhist sutras as sastra? To me, this seems watered down.

To my knowledge, Srila Prabhupada never described Jesus as an avatar. Rather, the exact words he used were 'empowered avatar' (I can never remember the sanskrit for this). This means that he is a great person empowered by Krishna to do important things. This does not put him on the same level as Ramachandra, Buddha, Kurma etc.

yes i read through the such explanation.like ramanuja sampradaya uses the red mark in the center to denote laxmi(red being the colour of shakti)through whom they seek to approach the lord.similarly the gaudiyas approach is through the mercy of tulasi devi and hence its a tulasi leaf.but inspite of that changing the red dot(laxmi) of madhva tilak and transforming it to tulasi is not definetly something of a respect or following ,is it?in fact it amounts to a change of belief also.

I think perhaps it shows the change of focus towards serving the devotees of Krishna (Tulsidevi being one). Ultimately, Tulsi and Radharani are the same person, so I don't think it's consequential.

Food riots? Marshall law? Not in America anyway. Of course industrial society is artificial but to think everyone is going to move from the cities to the farms...... It's impractical.

You're saying that Srila Prabhupada's suggestion is impractical?

Just this afternoon, a devotee I have talked to a few times at the temple has told me he is going to a farm in spain that has been set up.

It was quite wonderful because he had his bag in the restaurant at that time. He only had £1 on him, and his bag was so heavy. He said he was going to hitchhike to Spain.

To me, this is real devotion. Just trying to serve Krishna, and not worrying about eating, sleeping etc.

I wonder why there is not so much emphasis on farms these days.

Some propose that when prominent Vaisnavas are in a dangerous position due to illness or some other thing that we drop all consideration of the self not being the body and instead just concentrate on sentiment and petitioning Krishna to heal the material side of the problem.

 

This is a mistaken idea. The real problem is not any apparent illness that afflicts the body the problem is ALWAYS the mis-identification of the diseased body with the self.

 

Does it make sense that we then put aside the real solution to the problem, which is realization of the self, in favor of some sentiment we take as being on the spiritual platform? How can any such sentiment be on the spiritual platform if it is dependent on the ignorance of misidentifying the body as the self?

 

IOW's it is always and in ever circumstance appropiate to understand the distinction between the spiritself and the material body.

WONDERFUL! Yes, we must always also remember that Krishna is without obligation, and does not need our advice, since he knows our desires already.

I've heard theory's of Jesus not dieing and moving to India and if he did i have one question. How old was Jesus when he really died? Try to search it on google and if people can give educated guesses that would be good. I actually dont doubt the fact at all that he died. Thanks

I have never heard of this idea, but I beleive you are mistaking it with another. In the bible there is a substantial (20 years i think) period of Jesus' life which is unaccounted for, and the theory is that during this time he visited India. This is based also on reports of people with similar names visiting sights during this period.

Sril La Prabhupada was just joking and having a few laughs.He was not a scholar in biology .

 

Evolution as a theory is well-grounded in Hinduism, and Swami Vivekenanda has substantiated this theory too as well .

So you're taking 'Darwin's theory'?

This is despite the fact that the evolutionary theories being currently propounded by scientists are not darwinian?

Evolution may be well grounded in 'hinduism', but you will note that this is not the 'hindu' room, and Srila Prabhupada was quite adamnt that his followers did not use this nationalist term 'hindu'.