valaya

There is another way to use this herb other than smoking it, which has so many negative aspects. Marihuana butter can be made and consumed like any other medicine. The effects are more gradual, but steady. Smoking gives a quick buzz, possibly a brief `high`, then usually an energy drain.

 

There is also the added benefit with eating the THC of it being much less expensive. Even the lowest grades can be used and nothing is wasted by incineration. I'd be happy to provide directions, if I can find the book, or maybe try to remember...

Originally posted by Bhaktavasya:

You pompous self-righteous ass. This post is costing me by the minute, so I'll be brief. I stopped communicating personally with you and nixed a meeting in Toronto because you started giving me the creeps, to tell the truth. I don't care to impress you, and have lived in this 52 year old body long enough to know what helps my mind, body and spirit and what brings it down, sucks out the life force. Stop with the patronizing fake concern.

 

...and there's the sting, as usual! Oh well, can't say I didn't try...

 

 

Originally posted by JRdd:

I am doing that elsewhere now, as any forum where you are that I start sharing, someone inevitably comes along and starts criticising. It is healthy to choose where and what one shares, and who with.

 

[This message has been edited by JRdd (edited 10-23-2001).]

 

...and in somecases when, though that's especially difficult to determine, isn't it? So easy to get sucked in only to be smashed. I'm sure you always mean well, prabhu, as do I.

 

I firmly believe it will all work out in the next few lifetimes. We're after all just getting started with Lord Caitanya's Sankirtan Movement!

 

valaya RR

 

 

Are you intimating that anything I have to contribute to these forums is somehow 'contaminated' because I'm not 'strictly following the rules and regulations of sadhana bhakti'?

The rules and regulations of vaidhi sadhana can be helpful and even necessary, but ultimately they must be transcended somehow or other if one is to wholeheartedly engage in raganuga bhakti as a follower of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Most of us are struggling somewhere in between.

 

No, I do not think that you or your posts are `contaminated`. What I do hold important and in high esteem are vows taken to the spiritual master. As mentioned previously, I prefer to keep vows without making them rather than making them without keeping them. That puts us in two different situations, since I am not formally initiated while you are, but I consider neither to be any better/easier than the other.

 

Nor do I wish to condemn devotees who in good faith and full sincerity took such vows, but now find themselves unable to maintain them. We must above all try to be honest with ourselves and each other, without attempting to establish a superior position at the expense of anyone else.

 

After all, Lord Caitanya has a special concern for the most-fallen, does He not? Why then would we want to claim ourelves to be anything else but exactly that?

 

valaya RR

Originally posted by Bhaktavasya:

I haven't had the chance to go on line much, and have just read your '2 cents worth' this morning. I'm going to put the same question to you as I did to Bhuta Bhavana; How is it that other people have 'admitted' to smoking pot, including Mahaksha, and you don't brand them as (always?) slightly intoxicated whenever they contribute a post. You really do hit below the belt, because you know that I am hepatitis C positive and have said that smoking marijuana helps with the wasting effects of the disease, particularly with nausea. Are you intimating that anything I have to contribute to these forums is somehow 'contaminated' because I'm not 'strictly following the rules and regulations of sadhana bhakti'? Are you?

 

 

[This message has been edited by Bhaktavasya (edited 10-23-2001).]

 

What disturbed me was your post branding others, whose views happened to conflict with yours, as `slightly intoxicated`, so I used those same words sarcastically in my reply.

 

So far as initiated disciples not maintaining their vows yet expecting to be treated as if they were, my opinions are clearly stated in my first post on the `Debate This` thread. Like Janus, I believe Prabhupada has invested himself in his disciples and more should be expected from them.

 

Your personal situation continues to concern me, Bhaktivasya...you must know though how it hurt me when you stopped communicating personally and we were unable to meet as expected in August. The worst thing you can do for Hepatitus or any other disease of the liver is to consume drugs. Please believe me when I say it is only an addiction and overall cannot be considered helpful. I know of an African herb which has apparently shown amazing results, if you're interested.

 

Your fighting spirit impresses me still, as it has from the start, whatever your politics may be. If you remember, my first post in reply to your `story` on VNN forums was, "Your spirit humbles me." That remains true, prabhu.

 

valaya RR

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 10-23-2001).]

This site looks great, jndas prabhu, but I don't know how to make it work. My computer asks me if I want to save or open the file. `Open` brings up `can't find file` and `save` asks me where. Do I need to place each kirtan, etc. on my hard drive before it can be heard? So many files to remember already! Please give detailed instructions for computer illiterates like me, if possible. Thanks.

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

Valaya: Surely feeling gleeful while aware of others' misfortune and delighting in provocation is not the way of a devotee or a medical doctor, Satyaraja das prabhu. Please try and accept this as brotherly concern from one who often finds himself equally afflicted.

 

Satyaraj: Actually misfortune is to consider avidya as vidya, and faith as something that may cause mukti or even vidya. Isn’t proselytism itself a kind of provocation? Don’t you expect for some contrary reaction while ‘preaching’?

 

If you are equally afflicted you might not stop your search for Hari by imagining you are a finder and not a seeker like the others. Stop to think: “I had adopted a religious process and now I am a finder! Lol! I am at Goloka with Radha!!

Dear Satyaraja, you obviously continue to misinterpret where I'm coming from and my motives in posting what most prefer to keep to themselves. Of course, you are not alone in that!

 

It is most difficult to communicate such personal matters to begin with, but perhaps impossible on these internet forums. It seems to me that the one essential ingredient required in this kind of intimate sharing must be empathy. What little I have myself has been born from appreciation within my own heart of the value gained from painful experiences. It seems the heart must break to grow!

 

As for contrary reactions, not only must they be expected, but the true preacher has to be willing to take any negative reations onto himself/herself. Words may be cheap, as you well know, but real truth certainly is not...

 

Yes, I am still a seeker, but my search has narrowed considerably and is now focused solely on Her, through His Divine Grace. That doesn't make it any easier, in fact quite the opposite. I believe it is possible and even necessary to share understanding and encouragement with each other without having to share the same faith or philosophy. We are, after all, one family in God, are we not? Why should individual circumstances or beliefs interfere with our partaking in that Divine Love which is our legacy and ultimate destiny? I simply recognize that Love as Srimati Radharani and ourselves as Her parts and parcels.

 

valaya RR

 

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 10-23-2001).]

So what you get from me from now on is tough love.

Long as you wear that little French-maid outfit, JRdd, and keep repeating, "Moi spankez vous! Moi spankez vous!" Then again, you could always just skip my posts altogether, as you keep vowing to. Maybe stomping out of the forum again would be the best option. Of course, that never lasts very long, either. Reminds me of the guy who quit smoking--17 times so far!

 

Anyway, you're kinda cute when you get angry, though not anywhere near as effective as when you share your past experiences amongst devotees from the early days. So many miss/missed those precious times and long for the nectar you alone can provide so artistically! It's obvious where your gentle heart is, prabhu, so why not stick with what you do best?

 

valaya RR

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 10-23-2001).]

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

With all due respect, your continued nonsensical posts meant to demean and discredit Gaudiya Vaishnavism only serve to demean and discredit your own good self. (Audarya lila)

 

Gaudiya-vaisnavas are proselytizing all over the world. For certain they should expect some reactions besides humble reverences. Here we are in a discussion forum and we are free to discuss the philosophical tenants that you had pointed out. So, defend your own points if you can by direct refuting your opponents’ arguments.

 

Some really may find great pleasure in trying to discridit all that they had held as true when they were a 'Gaudiya Vaishanava' as they had noticed that these ‘truths’ were but concoctions and fallacies without any serious basis.

 

 

Surely feeling gleeful while aware of others' misfortune and delighting in provocation is not the way of a devotee or a medical doctor, Satyaraja das prabhu. Please try and accept this as brotherly concern from one who often finds himself equally afflicted.

 

valaya RR

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 10-23-2001).]

To my mind, there are two types of `bleeding heart liberals`: those whose hearts truly bleed for the pain of others and those who actually cause others' hearts to bleed by perpetuating their pain, while sacrificing so little themselves other than cheap sentiments. It's the latter that I utterly disdain.

 

valaya RR

Maybe we should change our rules to make cow killing by drinking milk against the regs and get rid of the rule that says we can only have sex 4 or 5 times in our life.

 

These are somehow connected in your mind???

Originally posted by talasiga:

<u>condiments</u>

are not needed

in the macrobiotic friendship

 

.

.

.

 

 

 

 

...and virtual should not be mistaken for reality!

 

 

Originally posted by talasiga:

honest arguments amongst friends

are always more relishable

than the consonance

amongst foes

 

.

.

.

 

 

 

So pass the `relish`, brother, I'm running out of condiments...

 

 

Lord Caitanya propagated raganuga bhakti in the form of harinam sankirtan. Building a religion out of vaidhi bhakti cannot possibly define, let alone confine, that One who is possessed by spontaneous Divine Love. Jai GAURANGA! Jai GAURANGI!

 

valaya RR

Originally posted by JRdd:

Valaya, several people--not just Mdd--have remarked on your faultfinding and bitter attitude, and general overall disrespectfulness toward the devotees.

 

I have also seen, many times, you faultfind those who don't take up your repeated invitations for private discussions (where, apparently, as I see from your above post, you engage in gossip about others), and you accuse your decliners of being impersonalists or fearful of intimacy. As Maitreya once said to you, brace up brother. The world doesn't revolve around you. Who are you to dictate, and judge everyone here.

 

As for Gopal's posting the quotes from the archives (and he does not carry the voice of Mdd at all), they were direct quotes and not any twisting of your words that you claim they were. Shvu is an honest impersonalist. But you, you are something else, brother. And until you get some real siksa (as my sister Mdd does, contrary to your patronising her with your alleged higher knowledge), which you have repeatedly stated you don't need, you will not get further than your imaginary little world that hangs on to each and every petty little grievance or difference until no one can get peace here. You even rudely brought your tantrum about another thread, on another forum, to the true association thread which was going so smoothly, and demanded everyone to go to the Mela and read it and console you about it. And even when I did try to offer kind words, next thing I knew you were being nasty to me, and have been ever since. Go figure. And you have done it before. Quite out of the blue. So what you get from me from now on is tough love. From a distance-- unless you show more control over your tongue and your behaviour and your attitude.

 

As for "moving on" after Srila Prabhupada physically left the planet, this statement shows how little you understand about the postion of Srila Prabhupada. It is not your lack of understanding I take issue with; it is your arrogance in deeming to explain to Mdd what she needs to do, or how much she is advancing, as if you are Supersoul. Some of us have wonderful siksa both from Prabhupada and from other devotees who you are not even aware of. But that is not your business.

 

Kindly read the Audarya Fellowship thread and give this latest diatribe a rest once and for all.

I noticed you read and agreed with it, yet couldn't resist diving in here to dump your two cents worth...so what else is new?

 

valaya RR

 

 

Originally posted by Caitanyachandra:

siour jokes make not non-sense.

 

Maybe it's cause they're mostly pucilanimous...

 

 

Anyone want to jump on this?

When I respond to a particular post, I always include the quote or otherwise make it clear to whom I am replying. There were five other individuals who answered the original `Debate This` order issued from the High Priestess, M-dd. I was adding my two cents worth to the entire discussion thus far, not singling out her.

 

That post from me and pretty well everything else I've ever written has been continually misinterpreted by this obviously fanatical malicious woman, due I think to wilful blindness and a compulsive need to faultfind some poor soul to the point of demonization. It being my turn, I guess, she actually spent hours sifting through the archives from this forum in search of what she believes to be conclusive evidence of my `guilt`, as an offender to God and guru.

 

Really, I find it all quite unbelievable and a sad reminder of the confused desperation of some that refuse to move on in their spiritual life after the passing of the guru who initiated them. Why can't they accept the need for siksa when it is so prominent in the parampara from Srila Rupa Goswami?

 

As for my supposed non-acceptance of Srila Prabhupada, that would have to include all others who did not receive formal initiation from him, because that is all I ever meant in my posts. In fact, I agree with the initial post on this thread, but the highly confrontational manner in which she promotes her guru actually accomplishes the opposite of what one would think is desired. Indeed it seems that she is not only out to assert Srila Prabhupada as the one and only bonafide guru, but herself as his one and only genuine follower!

 

Then, when her attacks on others come back on her to the extent where she can no longer defend the ridiculous position she first put herself into, she goes off to regroup for the next hapless victim. This is the established pattern and modus operandi of M-dd, the self-appointed forum High Priestess from VNN; where BTW I often supported her and bent over backwards to try and understand her personality. Recently, I ran into an old friend of hers who used to post on that forum herself who was kind enough to fill me in on a few details as to why they were no longer friends. So I'm well aware now of who I am dealing with...

 

Some may have noticed that I go out of my way to relate personally with other forum members, including inviations to exchange Emails and even phone calls. While many may suspect otherwise, it's because I try to care about everyone here that is a regular contributor, so long as I sense some sincerity. Being unable to take sides, or sympathizing with all sides at once, is not an especially comfortable perspective most of the time, especially when under attack from all directions simultaneously.

 

My vision is that we are all one in Krsna as part and parcel of the internal potency, Sri Radha. That makes us Her children, not those of any one guru. Perhaps I'll feel differently after initiation, which I'm sure will come about quite naturally, without my imperfect senses having to choose one faction over another. I've resigned myself to waiting on Radha-Krsna in my heart for that, because surely they know what's best for me more than I ever could.

 

Meanwhile, I try to see myself as the insignificant servant of all, not simply vaisnavas. I'm truly sorry that my own experiences are not very helpful here and telling them, while attempting to explain how I interpret everything in light of the scriptures, is considered offensive by many. I can't claim to be your ever well-wisher, not yet anyway, but I'm sure not anyone's ill-wisher either.

 

valaya RR

Originally posted by M-dd:

ps. great thread!

This thread has been here eleven days without a single reply other than mine, which don't count, except in a negative way of course.

 

Methinks Her `Highness` was too busy elsewhere, with venom not nectar, but that seems to be her nature, doesn't it? I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong in this regard...at no point did I criticize Her personally, and certainly not in such a maliciously vindictive way, until she zeroed in exclusively on me, even threatening to use all her powers to cast destructive spells, etc. etc.

 

Her words and mine speak for themselves. The one big difference, though, is that I am not an initiated disciple of Srila Prabhupada, nor do I claim to even be a devotee, so it is not I that should be expected to act like one.

 

If anyone disagrees with what has been said here by anyone else, the choice is always there to ignore the post or discuss it in a rational manner.

 

Vicious vitriolic personal attacks and demonizing should not be an option on `Spiritual Discussions` threads within a devotee forum. A very few here appear to know no other way, unfortunately. They should therefore not be surprised when their no-holds-barred down-and-dirty tactics lead to direct reciprocation in kind.

 

Feigned indignation and pointing of blame on the one originally provoked, with the sole intention of exposing so-called `anti-Prabhupada demons`, really won't cut it here. We've seen it all before, Priestess and I doubt if any of the regular posters here can be fooled by such antics anymore.

 

valaya RR

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 10-21-2001).]

Originally posted by Gauracandra:

The other day I was thinking about what a great innovation the Balaram Mrdangas are. What is so brilliant about them is that they are a perfect fusion of western technology and thinking with Eastern design. I believe it was Ishan Prabhu who originally developed these fiberglass mrdangas. Has anyone heard from Ishan lately? Anyways I just wanted to note this great innovation.

 

Gauracandra

 

I remember one time being in a crowded elevator behind Ishan prabhu. It was dead silent in that kind of nervous elevator-type atmosphere, except for Ishan chanting his japa rapidly non-stop, glancing up at each of us now and then with this strangely furtive wild-eyed look.

 

Just before the doors opened onto the ground floor, after a long ride down with many stops and still no one saying a word except for Ishan and his non-too-soft staccato japa, he suddenly turned towards the packed elevator and, fidgeting about, mumbled apologetically, "I'm sorry, but if I don't keep doing this I'll go crazy!"

 

That was back in the very early seventies, I guess, and the look in his eyes told us he meant it!

 

valaya RR

 

 

Originally posted by Gauracandra:

The other day I was thinking about what a great innovation the Balaram Mrdangas are. What is so brilliant about them is that they are a perfect fusion of western technology and thinking with Eastern design. I believe it was Ishan Prabhu who originally developed these fiberglass mrdangas. Has anyone heard from Ishan lately? Anyways I just wanted to note this great innovation.

 

Gauracandra

 

I remember one time being in a crowded elevator behind Ishan prabhu. It was dead silent in that kind of nervous elevator-type atmosphere, except for Ishan chanting his japa rapidly non-stop, glancing up at each of us now and then with this strangely furtive wild-eyed look.

 

Just before the doors opened onto the ground floor, after a long ride down with many stops and still no one saying a word except for Ishan and his non-too-soft staccato japa, he suddenly turned towards the packed elevator and, fidgeting about, mumbled apologetically, "I'm sorry, but if I don't keep doing this I'll go crazy!"

 

That was back in the very early seventies, I guess, and the look in his eyes told us he meant it!

 

valaya RR

 

 

Yet another wonderful opportunity to share Krsna-katha with all the Gaudiya vaisnava devotees on this forum... What, still no takers? Isn't this the `higher taste` that devotees `take great satisfaction in` and `always enjoy discussing amongst themselves`? Is anyone out there?

 

Maybe the preferences of devotees here lie elsewhere, or are they simply unable to relate Krsna's pastimes to their personal lives? Methinks they are selfishly keeping the real nectar to themselves! Then again, perhaps the `higher taste` is just not there at all! Anyone casually looking into this forum might be forgiven for thinking so, wouldn't you say?

 

My humble opinion is that many are intimidated, because they know from past experience what happens to those who share their hearts here. I had hoped that my own fumbling attempts might encourage and inspire the devotees, but it seems I've only opened myself up as a target for criticism if not outright demonizing.

 

Since I am still not an initiated disciple of any guru and do not consider myself a Gaudiya vaishnava, perhaps that makes me fair game for those who are always anxious to faultfind, while remaining fearful of committing apaRADHA by offending those whom they define as devotees.

 

If I should sound bitter and even disgusted, yes those feelings are certainly there; but mostly I'm disappointed by how this amazing internet forum facility is being used, when I know in my heart how it could be and what we should be for each other. Guess it's all only another computer video game to play with, eh? It could be called `Fun With Fools`, `Wittier Than Thou`, `How Clever Are We`, `Watch Me Now` or maybe `Virtual Masturbation`, anything but `Audarya Fellowship`...

 

Anyway, I'm hoping against hope that this post will be taken as a serious challenge for us all to become more real with each other, as opposed to philosophical/political or whatever other means we employ to distance ourselves from the true reality of discussing our Krsna-consciousness and establishing a deeper, more meaningful level together. Nor do I mean merely tossing out quotes without including at least some relevant personal realization as well, personal being the keyword.

 

valaya RR

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 10-21-2001).]

Originally posted by M-dd:

My Valaya, you're so into showing off your chastizements. It's almost cute, like a little boy...almost.

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

 

Originally posted by M-dd on `World Review` under Debate Almost Fatal topic (10-18-01):

 

Sad as it is, her death sure beats the spiritual fatality of debating with or talking to your bad self as well as most others on this forum that I am quickly tiring of. You are poisonous and disgusting association. You are a killer of the soul. I have no sympathy left for you or for several others here. Attack me, go ahead, I don't read most of your posts and wouldn't click inside if I'd seen your name. I hope this ruins your day, for maybe you can still have a spiritual change of heart if you hit rock bottom. But to do that, you'd have to acknowledge just who the pure devotee guru is that benedicted us all with the association of Radhrani in Her Deity forms Whom you impersonally claim to have such intimacy with, while jumping over his head. You're a spirtually cheating looser, headed for the darkest regions of ignorance. Heed the warning if you like, or go directly on your path to hell.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Yeah, right...cute like a self-righteous little girl trying to usurp her father's power by attempting to walk in his shoes, rather than actually follow in his footsteps.

 

Her High Priestessness banishes his other children and anyone else that refuses to accept, or dares have the audacity to challenge, her supposed authority, off to their `hellish` rooms. Twisted little sister, you are neither mother or father, nor are you in any position to criticize anyone for their personal relationship with God and/or guru.

 

`Poisonous and disgusting association` just may be in the poisoned and disgusting eyes of the beholder. In my own humble opinion, Krsna-consciousness means exactly that and practice makes perfect.

 

valaya RR

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 10-21-2001).]

Originally posted by Bhaktavasya:

Before the bombing campaign started I had the good fortune to help a woman with her own campaign called 'Not in my name', an extention of a peace group from England, mostly older, seasoned women peace activists, who promote the choice of paying one's taxes for peaceful purposes instead of pouring them into the war machine. While speaking with people on the street from the united states and other tourists, as well as from here in Victoria, young and old and in between, from various cultural backgrounds, I realized that the polls can't be taken at face value. For example, if you ask almost anyone if terrorism (training terrorists, funding terrorists, harbouring terrorists) should be 'wiped out', they'll almost all agree. Then we have to say that the School of the Americas, the original blueprint from which all other terrorist camps have been patterned after, should have been shut down decades ago.

The petition I helped present to people said, basically, that in light of the tragedy of September 11, the undersigned agree that the suspected perpetrators of the crime be brought to justice and tried by the international court of justice. That no innocent civilians should be victimized or killed because of any action taken in bringing the criminals to justice.

Here are some examples of responses:

 

An American woman, mid 30's, biologist; "Most of the American people DIDN'T vote for Bush, everyone I know thinks the Republicans are arrogant, greedy ********. I'll sign this but I really don't believe that they'll start bombing. They wouldn't be so stupid, now that so much information if coming about about the people suffering in Iraq because of the Gulf War bombings and the U.S. enforced sanctions, and what we did in Yugoslavia...bombing their infrastructure and killing citizens there. People in America wouldn't stand for it again. (The bombing began 3 days later)

 

2 local Victorian, late 30's, slightly intoxicated: (half-reading the petition before handing it back angerly)

"Do you realize that over 6,000 people died in New York on September 11th?"

 

me: "Of course I realize it, why do you think I'm standing out here?"

 

Chris (the woman from 'Not in my name'):

"Do you realize sir, that 200 Iraqi children die everyday, because of American backed sanctions against that country?"

 

slightly intoxicated guy no.1: (shrugging) "Oh well. There's overpopulation over there anyway."

s.i.g. no.2: " Ya, who gives a ****, come on, let's get going."

 

A young (20-something) local girl signed the petition, as did an elderly couple from England, an elderly woman from 'out of town' (her husband didn't want to get involved), some people just walked by, another man got angry and called us names but wouldn't read the petition, another young man (20's, longish hair, deceptively attired to affect a 'cool, hip' look) "They should just go in there and blast the whole country to bits, man! Those guys started it first."

Chris reminded him that the people of Afganistan never were responsible for what happened, but that still didn't pacify the man's thirst for seeing 'them all' blasted off the face of the earth.

 

In conclusion, it is ignorance that fuels and consents to this 'new war'.

 

p.s. I'll bet bin Laden is off somewhere in the Sudan or Tripoli, sipping iced marqaritas!

 

 

Guess this is what passes as sankirtan these days for some of Srila Prabhupada's (slightly intoxicated) initiated disciples...

 

 

Originally posted by FaithlessDevotee:

VALAYA: I understand your frustration and the anger associated with it. Do you know about the two types of faith, raganuga and vaidhi? There is much I would like to discuss with you, but this is not a suitable place. You are welcome to Email me confidentially if you can reveal more about yourself personally, to which I will reply in kind.

 

ME: Care to drop me an email then. I would like to here the answer to my question. Why don't you just cut the 'bad' language out next time instaed of deleting the whole thing.

 

I get the feeling you deleted the post because it doesn't follow your views.

 

Only jndas can delete posts here. If you want to Email me, do it soon because what little mercy I have left is quickly dwindling. You have not posted your Email address.

 

valaya RR