valaya

Best thing that can happen to a country is losing a war with the U.S.A. Look at Japan and Germany! Went to Siddha's group tonight wearing my `Don't Mess With The U.S.` T-shirt. Not appropriate, sorry to say...maybe I should have gone to the pitiful half-hearted anti-war demo at the U.S. Consulate, just round the corner from where I live. Gollee, mighta made it on T.V.!

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 10-07-2001).]

Originally posted by umandi:

Judging by the posts I've read on this board, many possess theoretical knowledge. Once the essence of this theoretical knowledge is absorbed from any source, whether from the Gita or Upanishads or from the gospel of any enlightened master (Ramakrishna or Aurobindo or whoever), how much ever comfort and enjoyment is derived from the reading, as we well know, it really doesn't take you any closer to the goal.

 

I suspect that many of those finding this message board are in the same boat- seekers without a guru.

 

The purpose of my beginning this thread is to ask active participants and lurkers--

(a) Where are you in your search thus far?

(b) What experiences have you had and to what method do you ascribe for it?

 

 

To get things started, I'll throw in my 2 cents worth-

 

(a) I possess theoretical knowledge only -- and I've gradually come to accept that jnana and bhakti both valid. I stopped my attempts a while back to take the path of jnana because it really didn't lead anywhere beyond book knowledge (with one exception detailed in b) Bhakti comes easier and feels good.

(b) I did experience a prolonged vision of sorts wherein a creature (she looked human) guided me through some fantastic realms. No words were exchanged. I was half awake and quite aware of the happenings both within and without, which is why I categorize it under vision and not dream. Anyway it was marvelous but never to be repeated even though I tried simulating the same conditions for months afterwards. It happened as I recall after a simple stint of meditation when I was utterly calm. It has been so long that it would be easy to dismiss as imagined, except for the unbelievable vividness of these places I was shown.

 

So pray share, where are you in your journey and what experiences have you had?

If you're expecting honest self-evaluation here, good luck! Now, if you changed the name of this thread to `Role-call`...RR

Originally posted by Gauracandra:

Freaky weird Not sure I fully understood it, but sounds cool. Teleportation would be very useful. I could have my groceries beamed directly into my fridge, I could be beamed into work every day (save on the commute). And we could beam Osama's ass into jail. It all works out perfectly.

 

Gauracandra

Be a real `bummer` if Osama's ass ended up in your fridge...but seriously, folks, does this belong with `Spiritual Discussions`?

Originally posted by rand0M aXiS:

Kill your TV.

But then my remote control would be useless!

Atma already posted this joke some time ago.

Copied from another board:

Crisis As A Means To Awakening

ASHOK ARORA

NY crisis -- be it emotional, physical or financial -- can be turned

into a stepping stone to attain spiritual growth. Crisis is the time

or state when we are out of slumber that this body makes us fall into.

This body has a tendency or habit of sleeping without our being aware

of it. How many of us are aware of what is going on within and

without? Even a fraction of a second of awakening can make us aware

of the difference.

How do we go about rousing ourselves from this sleeping condition,

this `maya' of our bodily nature? A crisis offers that opportunity.

In a crisis when our emotions are all stirred up, chemical and

electrical charges that flow through our body are at their peak.

A right combination of these charges can open the doors to the other

side of sleep -- that is the awakened state. That is what happens in

bhakti yoga.

A bhakta or devotee pours all of his or her emotions into God. A

stage comes when they are completely in harmony with the law of

consciousness and that is when doors open.

Our spiritual heritage is full of examples of how people got

transformed into more evolved persons, like Buddha, Mahavira, Meera

and Tulsidas.

When you study the lives of these `awakened' persons you will find

that they all went through a crisis. The greater the intensity or

momentum of the crisis, the deeper the understanding and experience

of the truth.

In Sufism, feelings and emotions for another person are turned

inward. This leads to the higher self. Lao Tse used to adopt such

techniques to transform emotional turmoil into energy to reach higher

realms.

What are those tools needed for transformation? How can we go about

it? Is it worth all the pain and effort? First one must realise, no

salvation or solution lies outside of oneself. It is easy to say this

but very hard to realise it.

In reality, how many of us even dare to look inside? Our ego finds a

thousand and one excuses for not doing so. That is why the scriptures

call the play of nature, body or ego an illusion or maya. The world,

the body or the ego play the game of illusion with you. Only after

realising this, can you look inwards.

What do you find when you go in? You find all the garbage which you

have accumulated. You may not like it but you have to face it.

Churning this garbage will prove to be useful.

Remember the story of Samudra Manthan. Bad and ugly things will come

out. So will good and beautiful things. Constantly observe. Do not be

a chooser. Just observe. Because the moment you start choosing you

will fall in the trap.

When everything which has to come out has appeared, a calm or peace

will descend upon you. This stage is what our sages have called the

grace of God. Your journey has just begun. The door has opened. Take

the first step -- go in.

The moment you take that first step, you die -- metaphysically. You

change radically. A new you is born. That is when you become twice

born. The pain and agony that you go through before you are reborn is

identical to the labour of child birth.

So this path is not for cowards. It is only for brave souls who dare

to tread on it. This change seems spontaneous. But in fact it happens

only after a long period of repeated attempts.

When you will follow this inner path, there will be lots of

temptations -- in the form of siddhis, extra-sensory powers -- that

come of out of body experiences. Most people get hooked on to these.

But the true seeker keeps following the inner path.

We must keep in mind that this body is asleep, our consciousness is

asleep and this sleep is like the numbness of a body-part that has

gone to sleep. We must use the pain of turmoil as catharsis and

awaken our consciousness to its natural state.

E J Gold said, ``So be brave, be courageous. You will experience your

imprisonment in a dead body, but soon the dead body will begin to

awaken. Then the situation will take a new turn; people around you

will seem dead but not everybody -- as you look around, you will see

some whose eyes are a little bit open or very much open. Work with

your pains, using them to reawaken the circulation in this lifeless

body, this sleeping machine.''

Originally posted by Caitanyachandra:

i've used up the holy name. and now i'm entering divine love consciousness via raganuga-devotion.

 

later loser.

For one who goes by the name `supercow`, you sure know how to make an `ass` of yourself...

If someone tries to shove something down another's throat (`Debate This!`), they can expect to be vomited on. Intentional provocation inspires reaction in kind. Then, of course, the usual cries of offensive, abusive, etc. ring out self-righteously. All this is always done in the name of loving service to Sri Guru and Gauranga!

We've been here before, on other forums, with the same individuals who seem adamantly locked in the past, while continuing to viciously lash out at others rather than face their own obvious shortcomings. The only solution, albeit temporary, remains avoidance. Perhaps all they have to teach us is self-control...though not by their own examples.

For those to whom Srila Prabhupada, as THEY understand him, continues to be their all-in-all and the sole personification of absolute truth, other forums are available. In fact, many of us here are not welcome there, so a certain `intolerance` might be expected on the part of some of us.

If so-called `Prabhupadanugas` actually were that, their fruits of devotion would be apparent to everyone. As for those who continue to identify themselves as initiated disciples after abandoning their vows... Give us a break, eh?

valaya RR

The topic of this thread is not being addressed, "Who is the Soul of Radha?"

Kripalu Maharaja will not discuss manjari bhava, therefore all that Jayasriradhe can quote refers to Krsna's soul as Radha.

As previously stated by me on another thread, the soul of Sri Radha is Her girlfriends, especially Radha-dasi manjaris who are exclusively devoted to Her alone.

The pastimes of Radha and Krsna are actually created by these same manjaris. Indeed, the whole purpose behind acintya-bhedabheda-tattva is to provide pleasure to the devotees, specifically the gopis.

Krsna repeatedly states that He cannot repay their devotion, thus he is continually attempting to do so. That's what keeps the nectar flowing!

Lord Caitanya's appearance in the mood of Sri Radha allows us the rare opportunity to engage directly in Her service by assisting Him in His sankirtan movement.

Those who insist on relating to Mahaprabhu as Krsna, or are unable to distinguish the individual personality and supreme position of Srimati Radharani as distinct from Sri Krsna, are simply missing the point entirely.

Our connection is not through Radha, it is to Radha! That is why all the gurus in our parampara are manjaris. Although everything has been written by the six goswamis of Vrndavana under the direct guidance of Lord Caitanya Himself, still this previously unavailable knowledge remains hidden to most.

Why anyone would continue to regurgitate all the same old stuff and keep reaching for some personal/impersonal relationship with Krsna is quite beyond me.

As part and parcels of the internal potency, Radhika is immediately available to us all. Krsna Himself tells us how he prefers to see His devotee glorified!

As you always say, Satyaraja prabhu, what to do?

valaya RR

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 10-05-2001).]

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

The facile comment that someone made early on in this thread that reasoning should be thrown out of the window was roundly criticized. But that is the only way according to as great an authority as Ramakrishna Paramahansa. (umandi)

 

Not only reasoning should be abandoned according to Ramakrishna, but also any kind of mundane dharma, such as Vaisnava-dharma, Sakta-dharma, yuga-dharma, and so on. According to him one should surrender himself completely to Hari’s absolute free will.

 

That is nothing new indeed. Caitanya has said the same, as well as Jesus, Mirabai, Kabir, Vallabha and countless other muktas. This is the main teaching from Gita (18.66), and the utmost confidential instruction given by Krsna.

 

Can you thrown out religion and philosophy for My sake right now? That was the last question that Krsna has made to His friend Arjuna.

 

Can we do it for the sake of Hari?

 

Instead of surrender to Hari’s free will and peacefully contemplate His lilas we actually are always seeking after religions and philosophies. What can be done?

 

While I agree for the most part with what you've said here, Satyaraja prabhu, I can't go along with the `peaceful contemplation`. The urgency of our desire seems most important to me. This can be expressed by giving up all our attachments to physical comforts, including mental and emotional stability, particularly home and family.

The association of advanced souls with similar spiritual goals can be a major inspiration and even a moment in their presence can light the necessary fire in one's heart. Then, by prayerful chanting of the Holy Names, that fire of devotional longing can leap into flames that quickly consume all our attachments in this world.

Eventually, everyone will be blessed by His Divine Grace and, possibly after numerous lifetimes, reach spititual perfection of some sort. The question for each of us as individuals with our own free will is simply how long are we willing to wait `patiently`.

Sri Ramakrishna threatened to commit suicide before Mother Kali granted him her vision...so long as we maintain any comfort in our lives here, we will be delaying our spiritual progress. For a `fortunate` few, there actually is no choice...

valaya RR

Originally posted by JRdd:

I did not see the post above, which came moments before mine. My post refers to the question of everyone here participating in the egroup I mentioned. Here is my answer:

 

This group is pretty much by invitation, when a member recognises someone who he or she deems is respectful of the devotees and of Srila Prabhupada. Not those who harrass or insult others or commit offenses to the acharya.

 

I have not noticed an attempt to remake this forum, so can not answer that. I do notice, however, that some do desire it to have a more harmonious atmosphere. I do wish Jahnava Nitai all the best in his endeavours to keep this forum as such.

 

[This message has been edited by JRdd (edited 10-04-2001).]

Those of us within this not-so-exclusive group obviously are not all being offered the luxury of choice that you apparently enjoy. I might therefore suggest that moderation of this particular forum be left to the moderator. Perhaps a select few of us may be found worthy of your more `genteel` association at some future time. Guess that's something most of us can only aspire to, eh prabhus?

valaya RR

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 10-04-2001).]

Originally posted by Bhaktavasya:

Yea, really, Valaya. It's about time someone began to put you in your place. How is it that whenever someone begins to speak of having a relationship with Krishna, you 'correct' him/her and say "Krishna belongs to Radharani alone" (without fully appreciating the deeper esoteric meaning of that statement, in that all of the hundreds and thousands of gopis are expansions of Radha). Now you have been indicating that Radha belongs to you alone, instead of Krishna. You even have the nerve to use Her initials by your name; instead if Radha-Krishna it's Valaya-Radharani.

Sorry, but it has to be said.

 

 

Note the difference between `my` (in response to Satyaraja's previous question, using the words your Radha, and my. It is Krsna who does not belong to us, however, not Radha. She belongs to Her girlfriends.

As usual, you remain not only confused, but also jumping to wrong conclusions. Only Jayasriradhey has some idea of what RR indicates, so you might want/care to ask her. Unfortunately, she believes herself to actually be Srimati Radharani as do you and so many others due to the desire of enjoying Krsna independently from Her.

Actually, there is only one ROMANCE and it is between Radhika and Krsna. Our position is either to attempt to imitate that as part of our relationships with each other within the perverted reflection of this world, or to enter into transcendental Goloka Vrndavan and assist the Divine Couple in their relationship, as a manjari. Thanks for reminding me of my place, Bhaktavasya prabhu.

valaya RR

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 10-03-2001).]

Originally posted by JRdd:

Anyone with half a brain can see there is more to what's going on than the government would like its sheeple to believe. And it seems that those who hold the most patriotism here emulate the government in its bullying tactics to shut everyone up. Can you imagine what the discussions here could be like if we were allowed (without shut-em-up destroyers of reasonable discussions), freedom of speech here, on these forums? As it stands, seems you are either black or you're white and there is no room for in-between. Talk about extremism.

 

(edited to add word left out)

 

[This message has been edited by JRdd (edited 10-03-2001).]

You may be interested in watching ABC news nightline at 11:35pm EDST tonight. Oh, guess you don't have a T.V., do you? Well, guess you could just look in the mirror and use your obviously fertile imagination! Then you can share your wishful thinking here, unless of course someone hurts your feelings somehow...

From :

Nightline <listeditor@abcnews.go.com> Reply-To :

Nightline <listeditor@abcnews.go.com> To :

"Nightline Mailing List" <nightlinemail-l@alist0.starwave.com> Subject :

NIGHTLINE: Watch What You Say Date :

Wed, 03 Oct 2001 14:31:49 -0700

 Reply

 Reply All

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 Printer Friendly Version TONIGHT'S SUBJECT: We are living in sober times, where words

matter even

more than before September 11. Whether it's news reports

compromising

troop movements (as in "loose lips sink ships") or simply being

politically incorrect in this pre-war period, tonight we'll

address the

questions of what to say and how to say it. As this email goes out, we've just obtained newly released New

York City

police and fire department tapes from September 11. You'll hear

those

tonight. But our main focus will be political dissent at a time

of crisis. ---- Is dissent in wartime unpatriotic?  It's a perennial question

with no easy

answers. While there's been no official war declaration,

President Bush

has described the terrorist attacks as an act of war.  One

writer who's

been critical of Osama bin Laden still worries that a prevailing

"pseudo-unity" will, as the CHICAGO TRIBUNE noted, "choke off

the spirit

of dissenting individualism crucial to defeating" what he calls

"Islamic

fascism."  Put another way, does fear trump constitutional

rights? It's a question some citizens are asking after losing their jobs

for what

they've written or said in the wake of the September 11 horror.

The

OREGON DAILY COURIER columnist, the University of New Mexico

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the host of the ABC program POLITICALLY INCORRECT (which follows

NIGHTLINE

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words

ruffled feathers.  The first two were fired. POLITICALLY

INCORRECT'S Bill

Maher has had some advertisers abandon his broadcast.  Some

would say the

marketplace of ideas is working. But others argue free speech is

taking a

hit during this difficult time for the country. Tonight, in another special one-hour NIGHTLINE, Ted Koppel will

speak with

people who have different perspectives on White House Press

Secretary Ari

Fleischer's misunderstood admonition that in times like these,

people

"need to watch what they say, watch what they do. . ." Among

them writer

Susan Sontag, who asked in THE NEW YORKER, "Where is the

acknowledgement

that this (the Sept. 11 terrorist attack) was not a 'cowardly'

attack on

'civilization' or 'liberty' or 'humanity' or 'the free world'

but an

attack on the world's self-proclaimed superpower, undertaken as

a

consequence of specific American alliances and actions? Strong words.  Not popular, especially in these times.  But does

she have

the right to speak her mind?  Or the TEXAS CITY SUN editor who

was fired

for writing a column critical of the President following the

terrorist

attack? Or Republican political operative Ed Gillespie who says

"the

events of 9/11 cause all of us to reevaluate. And I think we see

a

reevaluation of moral relativism." Lots of food for thought. We hope you'll partake. Wednesday, October 3, 2001 Richard Harris

Senior Producer

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Yes, `my` Radha is His Divine Grace and we are all part and parcel of Her. She is also known as the `internal potency` which is the basis of all other potencies, including Brahman.

In other words, while God has both personal and impersonal aspects, the most intimate relationship is a personal one. Religion, on the other hand, tends towards the impersonal.

RR

Tarun, Have you ever considered writing a book of crossword puzzles related to Krsna-conciousness? That might be a worthy challenge, prabhu.

Originally posted by Hedley:

Come again?

 

No, DON'T come again!

Originally posted by Gauracandra:

Good luck on your trip and have fun. Give us a full report when you return. Haribol.

 

Gauracandra

Hey, he might never return! We want weekly updates at the very least! My prayers and blessings come at a cost, prabhu! RR

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 10-01-2001).]

Dear Dr. Melvin, Thank you for speaking so honestly from the heart about your personal life and thoughts. The root of all dis-ease in this world is our separation from God. For a devotee of Krsna, this means disconnection from Srimati Radharani who is the personification of devotional service.

It is obvious that you have been blessed by His Divine Grace and you should therefore know that you'll carry that blessing wherever you go to whoever you're with, always. Not everyone associated with Lord Caitanya's sankirtan movement is destined to become a preacher in their present lifetime. That does not mean they won't have a positive transcendental influence on others.

All that is asked from us is to take the Holy Names as our life and soul. That means to accept them as non-different from our Eternal Beloved and learn to take full shelter emotionally through constant chanting.

This need not be done only on japa mala beads or even out loud. One can repeat certain names to oneself, attentively or not, quite easily. In fact, this can become quite addictive. Leaning on the Holy Names will cause false pride and so many other negative things in our hearts to simply evaporate in a very short time.

The names I suggest are: Nitai (Prabhu Nityananda), Nimai (Lord Caitanya), Radha and Krsna. You can also chant Jesus, if you feel so inclined. I've found it best though to concentrate on only one of the above two-syllable names at a time, repeating it over and over again, trying (if possible) to feel oneself meek and humble by admitting complete helplessness, here in this world all alone.

There seems to be a natural `two-syllable` rhythm to our activities, such as walking left foot then right foot or breathing in and out, which this chanting can easily be synchronized with. After awhile you will probably find yourself attached to one name/personality in particular and repetition will become spontaneous.

At first concentration will most likely come and go as you attend to your daily work routine, but soon you'll see how focusing on the Names can help accomplish whatever the task at hand is. Rather than attempting to drift off into some `spiritual` dreamland, this is an active meditation which brings Krsna and all His potencies to bear right here and now. My own experience has taught me that I simply am unable to function properly without Him/Her in the form of their Holy Names. Now the process is automatic for me, at least to some extent.

I guess what I'm saying, prabhu, is that there's no need to believe you must choose to neglect medicine for devotion, indeed the two can be extremely complimentary. Rest assured that the power of Divine Love is with you always and will in time be fully revealed in the most personal way. Meanwhile, I would advise you to follow your heart in deciding what to do, including what books to read.

Don't be rushed into accepting any particular guru or feel guilty because you're not all that you might think you should be as a devotee, doctor, husband, father, etc. Just keep on keeping on, somehow or other... Trust in God and believe in yourself as the servant of all and everything will ultimately come together. Maya-devi and your own mind will become your friends! I am very grateful for your association and contributions here.

valaya RR

Dharma, I am in Toronto, Canada and would like to meet someone involved with this. Please share your own personal experiences here, also.

My Email is: amanpeter@hotmail.com

Originally posted by karthik_v:

Satyaraja Dasa:

 

Well, if you thought that Gaudiya Vaishnavas started the process of proselytization, then check back with history. Ramanujacarya did that. Prior to him Adi Sankacarya did that. Milinda did that. Gautama Buddha before him.

 

All of them have 1 thing in common with Gaudiya Vaishnavas..they are inducing change of faith..rather they give faith and knowledge to those who seek it. Change of faith is radically different from induced conversions carried out by the missionaries. Hope you can appreciate the difference between the two.

 

 

One is motivated by divine loving compassion while the other is due to the desire to attain heavenly or earthly rewards and, no, I doubt if the difference can be appreciated in this case. RR

Originally posted by Gauracandra:

Just wanted to mention that I missed this weekend's broadcast due to another spiritual activity. And yes, I am one of those fools who actually doesn't know how to program his VCR I lost the instruction manual, and its been several years since I have done it. Now, it just doesn't work, no matter how much speculation I engage in

 

Gauracandra

Try phoning the manufacturer of VCR or go to a store that sells the same make. Also, repair shop may help.

Originally posted by Maitreya:

I see the answer right here is Prabhupada's words.

 

We have to recognize all living beings as part of Krishna and not as objects to exploit.

 

No piece meal 'solutions' will prove effective.

 

The fact is many of us have no genuine respect for Krishna or other jivas despite our endless pontificating.But until we experiencea true change of heart all these problems,in various forms, will remain.

 

 

Guess my change of heart wasn't `true` enough for some here, although it certainly seems real to me and those who know me personally. Have we all assembled here to destroy faith in ourselves and each other in the name of service to Sri Gurudev, Guru-Gauranga and Radha-Krsna or is that just what's happening most of the time? Must one individual or group always gain at the expense of another? Isn't there enough of God and His Love to go around?

Maitreya, please give us a means to contact you when you get to India, like a hotmail Email which you can access anywhere. Don't recommend you take a laptop with you though. Wish I was going with you, prabhu!

valaya RR

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 09-29-2001).]

And yes, I would like to thank you Audrya, as you have just given us another example of more subtle and indirect symbolic confusion: VIZ fallacy in moral conceptualisation. (interesting).

[This message has been edited by suryaz (edited 09-29-2001).]

Haribol Audarya lila das!

Nice try, prabhu. I trust that what you are attempting to deal with here, in your usual calm rational manner, is becoming increasingly clear. Whatever the input, it will eventually be used against you. The more passionate your reply, the more fuel you provide. Certainly there is no possibility of spontaneous discourse knowing that every word, inflection and who-knows-what-all will be picked apart to provide fuel for seemingly unlimited anger and frustration. An unfortunate but obviously hopeless situation. Guess it's up to the `victims` to work together on themselves. So sorry for all real or imagined offenses. It's evident that I have nothing further of any apparent value to offer here, nor do I expect to in the near future.

Sincerely (I think...), valaya RR

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 09-29-2001).]

Originally posted by Bhaktaneal:

Hari bol! Looks like this is working.

 

Hare Krsna!

Bhakta Neal

 

Haribol Bhakta Neal! Welcome to the fray...oops! I mean forum...!!!

Originally posted by FaithlessDevotee:

Wow let's waste more time argueing (sarcasm).

 

 

And no, I didn't actually waste my time reading through all this c***.

Dear Faithless, I hope this forum answers your question whether anyone here might be able to help you. Actions really do speak louder than words, don't they? If you can possibly avoid this network of bewilderment in favor of educating yourself and establishing some solid foundation for the future, I'd highly recommend doing so. It's much easier while you're still young.

Leave God realization to His Divine Grace, which may be provided more personally in the form of Sri Guru somewhere down the line. Meanwhile, try to believe in yourself, understanding that everything is already deep inside your heart-of-hearts and will be revealed as appropriate.

Later you can return here and save us all from ourselves!

HARIBOL! HARIBOL!

valaya RR

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 09-28-2001).]