shvu

If one does manthra japa and is consequently saved from an illness, then that was meant to be his fate. So either way, fate does not change. Cheers [This message has been edited by shvu (edited 11-29-2001).]

There is no "actual" version of the Bhavisya Purana. It is the least popular and the least published Purana owing to it's spurious content. It was not published until 1910, and has not been translated into english yet. Cheers

Use ALT + keys on the numeric pad. For example, é - ALT + 130 â - ALT + 131 The characters may be mapped to different keys on your keyboard, but they will still be somewhere around 130. Cheers

This speculation has always been there, by some historians. They believe Bhakti originated from western, christian sources. Some also believe Madhva's [13th century] concepts of hell, etc were influenced by the Bible. Initially there was also seculation that the charachter Krishna was influenced by that of Jesus. The logic was, birth in a prison is "similar" to birth in a barn. Carrying the baby under divine protection to flee from it's enemies and of course, all the miracles. But after research, they concluded that the story of Krishna was at least 200 years older than that of Jesus, if not older. Cheers

From one of the above mentioned articles, That is interesting. Did he mean, only 10% were really serious in their quest? Can anyone post or provide a link to the context of this statement? Thanx

It is true for all faiths. Religion is not based on logic and hence questioning will invariably make one lose faith. If it was based on logic, there would have been no faith required, in the first place. Since it [a hidden God, karma, liberation, heaven, etc, etc] cannot be proven by logic, the concept of faith comes in. You just have to believe and don't ask questions. Asking questions, is not some casual affair as some people seem to think. Questioning is a very intense process and the Questioner must be prepared to go all the way, even if it will result in losing faith. That is the idea of serious questioning. Now who is prepared to do that? People who claim religion is based on logic, already have some pre-conceived ideas and question around these ideas. They never question their basic assumptions. And when they are not ready to do that, all other questions mean nothing. As an example, tadviddhi praNipAtena pariprashnena sevayA | upadekshyanti te GYAnaM GYAninastattvadarshinaH || BG 4.34 || A rough translation would be, Know that, through prostration, enquiry and service, the wise who have perceived the truth shall instruct you in wisdom. How to identify a wise person? There is no surefire test to identify one and if that cannot be done, everything comes to a halt. In the first place, one has to have faith that the BG is true. The only way to progress here, is faith, for as long as one is questioning, one cannot move beyond this point. Place faith in some Guru, and then accept everything he says in toto, for one cannot reject some of the Gurus ideas and yet claim to be his disciple. Hence, it is faith all the way. Logic and questioning have to go out of the window. Cheers

Good one, Darwin, but no relevance to this discussion, as I am not coming from an atheist's angle. Otherwise I would have been tempted to take on your statements and launch an argument. The point here is faith vis-a-vis questioning. The Guru says there is a God, you accept his statement, because he cannot show you God. You have to go by faith. If you begin Questioning him with "how do you know?", "what if you are wrong?", etc, that ends everything. That is the point. Cheers

I can prove this by logic. Don't be alarmed . Don't accept what I am saying. This is something, that you have to decide on your own. I believe, I have provided sufficient info to justify my statement. Also, there is nothing wrong in faith without doubting and it is nothing to be ashamed of. I am saying that is the only way to stay on the spiritual quest. I don't understand this, sorry. You read the BG. It says, find a wise man and then do certain things. In order to do this, the first step is to believe in the BG. That is the idea. Like, for instance...? Cheers

Read, The Wonder that was India by Al Basham Sidgwick & Jackson, ISBN: 0-283-99257-3 The Puranas (A History of Indian Literature, Vol. 2, Fasc. 3.) by Ludo Rocher Otto Harrassowitz, Wiesbaden, ISBN: 3-447-02522-0 Both are academic books and will be available in academic libraries and in some public libraries. Cheers [This message has been edited by shvu (edited 11-05-2001).]

I remembered these verse after reading an article which says Prabhupada predicted 90% of his followers would leave the movement. ------------ uttishhThata jAgrata prApya varAnnibodhata | kshurasya dhArA nishitA duratyayA durgaM pathastatkavayo vadanti || katha upanishad 1.3.14 || Arise, Awake! Approach the great and learn. Like the sharp edge of a knife is that path, so the wise say; hard to tread and difficult to cross. manushhyANA.n sahasreshhu kashchidyatati siddhaye | yatatAmapi siddhAnA.n kashchinmA.n vetti tattvataH || BG 7.3 || Among thousands of people, one rarely struggles for perfection; even amongst those that struggle and even amongst those that become perfect, one rarely knows me in reality. bahUnA.n janmanAmante GYAnavAnmAM prapadyate | vAsudevaH sarvamiti sa mahAtmA sudurlabhaH || BG 7.19 || At the end of innumerable births, the man of realization takes refuge in Me, knowing that all this is vAsudeva. Such a saint is exceedingly rare. Cheers [This message has been edited by shvu (edited 11-05-2001).]

Actually, there are more than 108 upanishads. But different Upanishads are considered important in different schools, of which about 11 are common to almost all. Cheers

I had asked the same question to a x'tian once, and he did come out with a list of Bible quotes. The logic was, Jesus gave his blood, to remove man from sin. Since then, all that is required for people is to accept Jesus as the savior and that will cleanse people of all their sins. So basically, the sacrifices of the OT were superseded by the coming of Jesus and/or the NT. Cheers

In my not_so_humble opinion, Mohammad was a lunatic. Another of those guys who became famous, for nothing. And then became something, because he was famous. All the good stuff in the Kuran is outweighed by the negative content in it. Cheers

Also www.foodrelief.org This I like the most. Cheers

Try Al Basham's, The wonder that was India. It sure beats, Prabhupada's "Hinduism is dried-out and the followers are useless". That is because, unlike the Srilas from west bengal, Al Basham is a historian, and has reasearched his facts right, before proceeding to write about hinduism. Pretty simple. Unless of course, you have lived and studied in India, in which case, you should already be aware that Hinduism has not dried out. Or do you by chance, believe Hinduism has dried out and it's followers are useless? If you think so, I would like to know how you define hinduism. Thanx

According to the NT, he is god himself. In hindu terms, he was an avatar who came down to save mankind. But calling him an "acharya", will serve one purpose. Let me illustrate that, 1. Pick up some verses from the NT to show Jesus spoke about his father in heaven. 2. So he was a "bonafide acharya". 3. The father in heaven, is of course, none other than the Indian God, Krishna. 4. So when one can directly worship Krishna himself, why bother with indirect ways like worshipping "bonafide acharyas"? 5. So the intelligent, sensible thing to do , is to join the Krishna consciousness movement. QED. The age old, carrot-dangling technique. Cheers

Vedic religion in the form of present day hinduism is very much alive and vibrant. A statement such as, Although posing as great scholars, ascetics, householders and swamis, the so-called followers of the Hindu religion are all useless, dried-up branches of the Vedic religion. is nothing more than a sales pitch. As a word of caution to the readers, I recommend people who do not have knowledge of hinduism to treat info, given by Indian gurus who come to foreign countries, with care. More often than not, they twist meanings and stories to suit their agenda and end up misleading people. If people are interested in the history of Indian religion, stick to reading history books. Some foreigners who wish to become vaishnavas will like to hear such things. Knowing this, the Gurus are ready to give the disciples, what they want to hear. "Hinduism is over and out, Vaishnavism is in, it is THE way to go, etc, etc", is just a lot of nonsense. Whoever makes such a statement either doesn't know the meaning of the term Hinduism or is lying. Although it has been some time since Jijaji asked those questions, notice no one has answered them, although some of Prabhupada's people have been posting on the forums since then. That says it all. Cheers

Good one. Cheers

It is as clear as can be that the Quran advocates violence and has formed the basis for many wars and acts of terrorism. Yet interestingly, many muslims strongly maintain that the Quran's teachings are peaceful. Cheers

If this were from soneone else, I would have been very tempted to come up with a retort. But I have known you for sometime now, and I have found you to be pretty reasonable. So I won't comment on this. Cheers

I follow the meaning of the term Hindu as understood by millions of Indians and no other alternate meaning has been provided on this thread, so far. And hinduism as I know it, is not "dried out" and the followers are not useless. That is my point. People of course, do not have to believe what I post here. They can check a dictionary, talk to Indians, read history books and find out for themselves, what the present day status of hinduism is. I am quite sure, Jndas, having lived in India for some years now, knows how the Indians understand the meaning of the term Hindu. Having travelled across India and being familiar with the Indian ways, he will also know, that people are not "posing" as householders, etc. If he thought, Hinduism was useless and dried out, he would not have made the caption of the home page, as Hinduism. There, I think I have said all I wanted to, on this topic. Cheers

What if some Hindus eats burgers? How does that make the word meaningless? Plenty of iskcon Gurus were charged for corruption in the past. Did that make the word Vaishnava meaningless? I am not sure, what the point is, here. Not really. Buddhism and Jainism came out of India too, and they do not come under the umbrella of hinduism. Hinduism is a collective term for all the Indian religious branches worshipping Indian Gods, specifically Puranic Gods. There are plenty of Shaivas, Vaishnavas, etc who live in India today and are strict adherents of whatever system they follow. And they all call themselves as Hindus and I fail to see what about them is "dried up". That is exactly my point. Ambitious people comeing over to the US and giving their own concoctions of Hinduism, means nothing. Just like SP's description of present day Hinduism is a tall-tale, the fat guy's story can be shown the way to the trash can too. People like this fat guy are thriving on the gullibility of the westerners, who have been led to believe, anything that comes out of India is spiritual. Srila Prabhupada very specifically says, Hinduism has dried out and the adherents are useless and pretentious people. I am saying this is a false statement, a sales pitch. That aside, not a single one of Jijaji's questions have been answered yet. As people who follow Prabhupada's teachings, your sentiments prevent you from seeing him as an ordinary guy who criticized everything else to make way for his own teaching. I am not saying it is wrong, for that is how it is with anyone who wants to promote a new product among existng productsa and this is exactly what people have been doing for centuries. There is no other way. Cheers

Perhaps it is. I accept the common meaning of the term that covers all branches of Indian religions worshipping Indian Gods. For instance, I would be very surprised if some of the Indians here like Animesh, Sushil, Karthik, etc do not call themselves as Hindus, although some or all of them are Vaishnavas. That is right. Since many people who read these forums do not know what Hinduism is, a statement such as, Although posing as great scholars, ascetics, householders and swamis, the so-called followers of the Hindu religion are all useless, dried-up branches of the Vedic religion. can be misleading. They will arrive at the conclusion, Hinduism is dried out and no-good, which is why someone has to point out Hinduism is still very much alive, Vaishnavism is a branch of Hinduism, etc, etc. It is not be mistaken as an anti-campaign. It is not. But here we are discussing the correct meanings of certain words and if Hinduism, as it is commonly known, has dried out or not. Cheers

This is not chaitanya's instruction and is only a purport by some commentator. I would rephrase that as, If someone blasphemes a VaiSNava, one should stop him with arguments and higher reason. If one is not expert enough to do this, he should realize, he lacks knowledge of his own belief system and must go back and do more study. Giving up life or walking away does not help in any way. Cheers

Thanx GHari, I understand where you are coming from and I have no comments on that. Cool. It is good to know there have been some rational people (the critics) in India, and not all of them were the gullible type. Just my opinion. Cheers