Guruvani

Thats a lot of emphasis on a GBC that Srila Prabhupada never mentioned one time in his books and very rarely in letters. The fact that Srila Prabhupada never mentioned the GBC as an authority in his books is proof that he knew the GBC was assured of becoming defunct after his passing. He saw enough rot and corruption in the GBC while he was here that he knew for sure that GBC was going to become totally rotten after his passing. The GBC has made ISKCON into a scandalous disgrace.

Difference between acharyas? Since when does initiating a few neophytes make one an acharya? Besides that disagreement among acharyas doesn't work when the other acharya is your spiritual master whos practices you are criticizing. When a disciple criticizes practices of his spiritual master that is not a disagreement among acharyas - that is just plain and simple guru aparadha. As for me, I had to do 2 years of strict obediance in ISKCON to get diksha. Many of the crazies who joined ISKCON were still crazies even after they became "gurus", so that just proves that an acharya is not manifested by "initiating" some disciples when one is himself just stuggling to make rank as madhyama-adhikari.

Srila Prabhupada gave diksha through tape. Gaura Govinda Maharaja says its wrong. I think that is what we call guru aparadha.

then why did Gaura Govinda Maharaja allow his disciples to make tape recordings of his lectures if tapes cannot transmit sabda brahma? His followers maintain a tape ministry. http://www.srilagourgovindaswami.org/catalog.pdf why do they do that? Their guru said tapes are useless. I think I smell some hypocrisy here. Gaura Govinda Maharaja said tapes cannot transmit sabda brahma, but he allowed his disciples to maintain a tape ministry. Then I guess since Gaura Govinda Maharaja did not accept that tapes can transmit spiritual knowledge that he was quite fine to distribute mundane sound vibrations with his tape ministry? His criticism of tape recorded sabda brahma is tantamount to criticism of Srila Prabhupada. Of course he thought he knew better than Srila Prabhupada and that is why the GBC was always on the verge of kicking him out of ISKCON. I think I smell something rotten here with this attempt to have it both ways. In other words, somebody was cheating. Either Srila Prabhupada was cheating or Gaura Govinda Maharaja was cheating because they disagreed on the practice of giving diksha by tape recording. I'll put my money on Srila Prabhupada.

I also had a close encounter with a UFO that was kinda bell shaped. I have described it before as like a big Top that was flat on top and flat on the bottom. I saw it when I was driving from Virginia Beach to Indiana on a short leave from the US Navy. I was a test cell technician on jet engines in the Navy. I was driving down the highway a few miles outside Virginia Beach when I saw colored lights on the highway out in from of me. I was thinking that it must have been stop lights or something, but I couldn't figure out how there could be stops lights out on the Interstate Highway. As I got closer I could see this UFO hovering right over the highway. I slowed down and I drove right under it. It must have been only 100 feet above me and I saw it was a UFO beyond a doubt. Then after I passed under it I could still see it in my rearview mirror. Another time in California when I lived in Badger I had a lucid dream that I was on board a giant mother ship. It seemed real because I saw a form of alien script on the control panels of a laboratory where I was setting on an examination table. I didn't see any aliens, but in my dream I had been abducted onto this UFO and was inside an alien space craft. Before I was actually on the UFO I had a dream that I got up out of my bed and looked out the window and saw a massive UFO mothership that looked hundreds of yards wide. the next thing I know I am dreaming that i am inside the thing. The next day my wife said she saw aliens in our house that night and actually in our room standing around our bed. They had some kind of pistol and holster on she said. There are some strange things going on over them Sierra Mountains.

For the tooth pain I would recommend myrrh. I always keep a bottle of myrrh around. I don't know what it is or how it works, but myrrh gum has helped me through cavities and tooth pain on several occasions. In fact, just last week I started having tooth pain over a cavity that finally got to the nerve and started causing a lot of pain. I ran to the health food store and got a bottle of myrrh and took couple of capsules with a drink as soon as i got outside. I took a couple of aspirins too. By the time I got home the tooth pain was gone. Then when I got home I ground up some fresh cloves in my spice grinder and used it like a country hick keeps a jaw full of snuff. It helped a lot to relieve the pain. I kept taking the myrrh for a couple of days and now I have no pain from the tooth, though I can sense that is has a cavity and is sensitive to cold and heat. I have used myrrh for years for tooth ache. I don't know how it works, but is has sure helped me. My daughter liked gum and candy and she ended up with a rotten molar that gave her a lot of pain. I gave her some myrrh to take and she did alright and the tooth rotted out and she never had any more pain. Don't ask me how it works, but mryyh has worked wonders for me and my daughter when it comes to toothache pain. I have used myrrh for years as a flu remedy, and it was by accident that I discoverd that it worked great on toothache pain. I would say give it and try and see if it work for you. Myrrh gum. You can get it at about any health food store.

Well, I was trained-up very strictly in a special program for training new devotees that Srila Prabhupada authorized Danavir Maharaja to conduct. I got a first class training program that was superior in discipline and sadhana than a majority of the ISKCON devotees got. So, I don't believe that good training can come only for the diksha guru. Many times a siksha guru can give more personal attention than the diksha guru. I don't really consider Danavir Maharaja as my siksha guru, but he was a senior Godbrother who trained me nicely and made sure I got a chance to learn sadhana in a brahmacary environment. I think it is childish and selfish to think that only the "guru" or the "acharya" or the "siksha guru" can train new devotees coming to Krishna consciousness. Many of these "gurus" aren't even really fit people to train new devotees personally. They are jet-setting around the world and having fun. They don't have time to train disciples properly and in many cases their own sadhana is a joke. I don't know exactly what the future holds for the Krishna consciousness movement, but I am quite confident that Srila Prabhupada wanted ISKCON to be a model society, though it has surely fallen short in many ways since his passing. I guess I was just one of the lucky ones who had a great experience in ISKCON and really saw the potential for the ISKCON model. ISKCON was awesome from what I saw. It was great. I guess there were some glitches here and there, but MY ISKCON was fabulous and marvelous. I personally think a ritvik ISKCON is the best model for the day and age we live. the long list of fallen gurus is testimony to the fact that there will be more in the future and it sure doesn't bode well for the legitimacy of the parampara. And, a few old Swamis from the Gaudiya Matha aren't going to be around forever to be used as excuses for not reviving the authorized ritvik system for ISKCON.

Well, I don't think so really. I know several devotees that sent letters to Srila Prabhupada asking for personal instruction and he just always told them to consult with the temple president and the senior devotees and cooperate with the authorities to do service. Srila Prabhupada was very busy in so many ways and it certainly was a distraction from the greater good if he had to take too much time out to tend to so many devotees that wanted some personal interaction. In the later years especially he was very strict about devotees going through the authorities and the chain of command and not demanding personal instruction. I think the senior men kept the crowds away because it was the best thing for ISKCON as a whole. I think they did it under the instruction and wishes of Srila Prabhupada. I got a few days of association with Srila Prabhupada at lectures and programs and I was happy with that. I even saw him shed a tear watching the drama actors putting on a play and I feel very fortunate for that. I didn't need to linger and loiter around Srila Prabhupada. I could understand that service in ISKCON was more pleasing to Srila Prabhupada than chasing him around from temple to temple to get the vapu experience.

Well, I just go by the example Srila Prabhupada showed when he was physically present. He allowed a few senior disciples to perform personal service but the several thousand other disciples were just guided towards reading the books and doing their service in ISKCON. If the vapu connection was so important then Srila Prabhupada would not have restricted his personal service to a few senior disciples but made it a point that every disciple had to get some vapu service. Very few of the disciples of Srila Prabhupada got actual personal service to the vapu aspect. Srila Prabhupada was big on vani. A few senior men took care of the vapu service and the other several thousand disciples were just encouraged to read the books and participate in the ISKCON society as actively as they could. So, vapu service is important because somebody has to be personal servant to the acharya, but once that is taken care of by a few senior disciples, then the rank and file devotees were all instructed to focus on the books - the vani and the service in ISCKON and the association of devotees. That was the ISKCON system and that was how Srila Prabhupada conducted his mission. If the vapu connection really flips your switch, then power to you. But, Srila Prabhupada established ISKCON as primarily a vani based movement for the majority of his followers.

Well, not exactly like you say. Srila Prabhupada writes this in his concluding words of CC. So, you say tradition puts a lot of emphasis on the vapu, bu really it doesn't. Srila Prabhupada says: So, I don't know what Narayana Maharaja says and I don't care, but Srila Prabhupada said to take advantage of the vani "not the physical presence". He also says that it is "material vision" to think that the spiritual master is no longer present just because he has given up his physical body. So, your material vision sees that Srila Prabhupada is gone, but my spiritual vision sees that he is still just as much alive as ever. So, your vapu theory is not supported by Srila Prabhupada. Maybe Narayana Maharaja preaches like that, but Srila Prabhupada doesn't.

I appreciate very much the necessity for purascharya-vidhi. The above quote is very important for one who actually wants to make tangible advancement in Krishna consciousness. Personally, I went through the purascharya-vidhi process and was initiated as a brahmana as Srila Prabhupada wrote "under the direction of a bona fide spiritual master". I think it is noteworthy here that Srila Prabhupada described it as getting initiated "under the direction of a bona fide spiritual master" which certainly describes the initiation process in ISKCON as not necessarily by the spiritual master himself but "under the direction of a bona fide spiritual master" which certainly describes his idea for how ISKCON functioned. No doubt that without sadhana and purascharya-vidhi it is very difficult to actually get noticable results from chanting japa and performing kirtan. But, then when you become siddha like me, you don't need all that. All you conditioned souls out there need to pay your dues to sadhana and purashcarya-vidhi if you want to become liberated like me.

Srila Prabhupada always emphasized "joining the Krishna consciousness movement". If you bothered to read his books you could see that for yourself. So, books are obviously not enough for everybody at all times and all places. Association with devotees has an important part in the cultivation of Krishna consciousness. Yet, we have plenty of proof in the examples of the followers of the "living guru" that they haven't manifested any sattvic bhavas from all the their staring at the whiskered face of the "living guru". So, they have proved to the world that vapu sanga doesn't perform any magic or miracles. You have to follow the process of chanting, dancing, hearing Bhagavatam etc. etc. The vapu fanatics are all the time saying that you can't get prema from a book, but they are all living examples that you can't get prema from hanging around the body of the guru asking silly questions. The vapu fanatics don't show any superior symptoms to the vani bhaktas. They haven't proved that you can get prema by loitering around the physical body of the "living guru". It's obvious that you don't get prema from books or from physical promixity, but you get prema by extreme self-sacrifice and self-abnegation in the service of the pure devotees. You can make that sacrifice after hearing from the books or you can make that sacrifice after hearing it directly from the mouth of the pure devotees. Either way, you aren't going taste the nectar unless you shed the false ego and dedicate youself wholesale to the service of the spiritual master. Loitering around the physical form of the guru expecting some magical, mystical electrical charge of prema is a fool's folly. If you want to dance to the music you must pay the piper. That means without totally sacrificing yourself in service to the spiritual master you will never get prema even if you loiter around his physical form for millions of years asking silly questions to satisfy your curiousity.

You know, I have set at the feet of Srila Prabhupada and heard his lectures, heard his kirtan and recieved prasadam from his hand to mine. It was great, it was wonderful and it was inspiring. But, for me anyway, I always feel the most intimate connection with Srila Prabhupada in his vani and his books. I don't buy into the vapu magic that some devotees seem to be all excited about. I have seen senior sannyasis nodding out during lectures and I know that the propaganda that there is some electrical charge of prema that comes from the physical proximity of the acharya or guru is a myth. Physical darshan of the pure devotee is wonderful, that is true. But, I think that this idea that there is some special magic in physical proximity is a myth. The magic is in serving the spiritual master, not in looking at him. When Vyasadeva wrote down the Vedas and the other Vedic literatures he opened a new era when the ancient oral tradition had been rendered into script allowing the Vedic knowledge to be transmitted through another process other than aural reception. Even then, there were few copies of the Vedic scriptures available to the masses and hearing from the mouth of the sages, gurus and acharyas was the only way to get spiritual knowledge. Anyway, the invention of the modern printing presses and now the internet has made all this storehouse of knowledge available to the masses very profusely. That is why we need the guidance of modern acharyas who have adjusted the situation for modern times and have left us their instructions on how to adapt these ancient Vedic teachings to the modern world. We don't have to be in physical proximity of modern acharyas to learn from them. We can read their books and listen to their recorded messages and it is all the same. The vapu aspect is external. We need to get in touch with the internal workings of the acharyas and the best way to do that is to hear their instructions either from their mouths or from their books. The message is the substance. How you get the message doesn't matter. I prefer the written word as it allows us to go over the teachings again and again and again or simply stay on one verse till we can get some insight as to what the teaching is trying to convey. I don't think that anything compares to the written word. Anyone that doesn't get moved and stirred by reading the words of the great devotees is not going to feel any magic looking at the face of a pure devotee. Since the dawn of language mankind has been transmitting knowledge, getting inspiration and touching the hearts of others with the written word. Reading the words of others has many times moved people to tears, started revolutions and completely changed the lives of thousands and millions of people. To say you cannot get prema from a book is in fact a deception, because the book is a direct link to the hearts and minds of many of the greatest sages, devotees and saints in the history of the universe. The face-to-face process has never been and never will be as powerful and effective as the heart-to-heart process of studying the lives and teachings of the Mahajanas, the pure devotees and the acharyas. anyway, that is my humble opinion.

I don't think the books say that. Here is what Srila Prabhupada says about getting love of Krishna from a book. It's in the preface to KRISHNA BOOK.... Srila Prabhupada wrote in his book that by reading even just this one book that LOVE OF GODHEAD will fructify. So, I beg to differ with your conclusion even though I know it's a popular view with the vapu promoters around the movement.

Thats one of them trick questions. You can't get anything from a book, but you can get everything by following the instructions of the Mahajanas that are contained in books. It's not books that do the magic, it's following the Mahajanas whose example is perfect that is the secret. Where do we get the best insight into the lives of the Mahajanas? Duh...... from the books. What do the books say about the books? This book is sufficient for God realization. So says the book.

Sri Chaitanya has proclaimed Bhagavat Purana as the "spotless Purana" because its rejects all materially motivated religious principles and propounds Sanatan Dharma.

Now you gotta go putting down the the buddhists in Tibet. If you were even a fraction as sincere, simple and humble as the buddhists of Tibet you would be amazing. Unfortunately, you are habituated to criticizing Srila Prabhupada, blaspheming Sri Name Prabhu's tape incarnation and thinking that a stool bag is the "living guru". Hang in there girl, there is still hope for you. Just take shelter of the Holy Name, click your heels together and say "there is no place like home, there is no place like home". After all, we aren't in Kansas anymore Toto....

Ok, so you are confirming that you are saying Prabhupada cheated all the disciples he initiated by tape? You say the tape diksha was a fraud. Well, I knew you thought like that already and I know who you learned it from................the "living guru". But, you can't seperate the tape sound from the time Srila Prabhupada was "alive" and from the time after he left the body. According to your theory, you are accusing Srila Prabhupada of being a fool and a cheater for giving diksha by tape recording. If the tape sound can have potency at one time it can have potency at another. Whether Srila Prabhupada is dead or alive really doesn't make any difference concerning tape recorded mantras. Srila Prabhupada's passing didn't just magically turn the recorded mantras into dead mantras, especially if we have NO injunction from Srila Prabhupada that the tape cannot be used after his departure. So, your theory says that Srila Prabhupada was a cheater and a hoaxer, that your "living guru" can give a better mantra through his stool bag than Srila Prabhupada can give through tape recording. ...the sound on the tape is associated with consciousness. It was created by the vibration of Srila Prabhupada and his conscious will to record the mantra on tape. The tape has the consciousness of Srila Prabhupada behind it's existence. So, your theory is bad and hereby proven as faulty. The initiation tapes were created by Srila Prabhupada, not by a computer generated sound vibration. Without Srila Prabhupada behind the tape, the tapes would never have existed. Srila Prabhupada never issued any injunction that the tapes cannot be used after his passing. If he was concerned about that he would have made sure to say something. The authority to use the initiation tapes was never withdrawn. Srila Prabhupada put them into use and never recalled any of the gayatri tapes. They are still viable.

Everything and everyone is guru in some way or another, even the dog in the street. Chanakya Pandit has shown how to see guru in so many creatures. But, we need guru in the full-fledged form that can truly give us complete knowledge of how to go Back to Krishna's home, back to Godhead. That guru can come in a living form or in book form. That is what I believe. Sure, Narayana Maharaja is guru. But, I really don't think he is any more "living" than Srila Prabhupada and that Srila Prabhupada is still "living" in sound. Accept whichever guru suits you, but don't try and tell the Krishna consciousness movement that Srila Prabhupada isn't a living guru and that he does not live in teachings and his books, tapes etcs. And you shouldn't blaspheme Sri Nama Prabhu or Sri Gayatri in their forms in in the sound produced on tape or audio file. That is an offense. No enlightened guru would blaspheme Sri Hari Nama in any form he accepts. Krishna can incarnate in any form he chooses and it's not up to you to dictate what form that can be. If Krishna wants to enter the heart of a person he can do that through tape recording as much as any other sound.

Why is it that only bags of stool and urine can be spiritualized in service and tape recordings cannot? You seem to be saying that bags of stool and urine are somehow superior to other forms of matter. Why do you so favor bags of stool and urine over other forms of matter? Can't gold and silver and other things also be spiritualized in service? Why only stool bags?

Well, the horde of neophyte fanatics who follow the "living guru" and make nuisance, disturbance and agitation all around the Krishna consciousness movement are all the proof I need that the "living guru" propaganda is a hoax and a scam. What better proof is there that the "living guru" ideaology is no better than the "dead guru" system than his horde of neophyte fanatics who are all living testimonies that the "living guru" has no special advantage to the "dead gurus". They haunt the internet in various anonymous forms spouting off the bigotry and blasphemy that they are famous for all over the world. What it all boils down to is like playground politics of "I am better than you because I have a living guru". I say....... bullshit... grow up and stop acting like kids on the playground. They boast their superiorty relentlessly based on their "living guru" that they see for a few minutes each year at the Navadvip Parikrama, as if that few minutes of sanga does some magic or miracle they nobody else can see.

Yeah, my son was telling something about that. he was reading about it on a website. I do have those lucid dreams sometimes. When I do that is when generally I start to chant japa or sing Hare Krishna. Most usually I get lucid when I get attacked by a ghost and I realize that I am dreaming and getting attacked by a ghost. Otherwise, I would say that my dreams are more on the vivid side, because most often I am dreaming of being someone else other than who I am in the physical sense. I am a dreamer for sure. Some are vivid and some are lucid. I have had lucid dreams where I could fly like a mystic. It wasn't flying like a bird because I could travel from one place to another just by thinking of it and projecting my mind from one place to another.

It didn't do any magic on you, so we might as well just stick to Srila Prabhupada and his books. You are living proof that the "living guru" is no better than the dead gurus. So, you can give up the masquerade. You aren't fooling anyone but yourself.

Well, be happy with your stool bag "living guru", but as far as ISKCON goes it has been TRIED AND FAILED, not "tried and true" so it's time to get out of the stone age and adapt parampara in a way that doesn't make the parampara a scandalous desecration and free-for-all fiasco of false gurus that are cheating innocent newcomers out of the same feeling that the disciples of Srila Prabhupada relish. Your "tried and true" system has never been tried outside of India. Progress can't be made if we insist on living with sterotyped concepts of parampara that just turn the parampara into a despised and disgusting list of fakers, cheaters and rogues.