Govindaram

HK Pretty please..ohh forget it /images/graemlins/mad.gif

HK Its up to you, i am a kind hearted person! But I wish people would LISTEN to what otherpeople say anyway.....Haribol

HK If you involve yourself with non-devotees, you will corupt your soul, leave it alone I_luv_krishna, I only say this mainly because your are young.

HK Please could you delete this entire thread, its hanging here like a vulture, have you not read it yet! /images/graemlins/frown.gif

HK Could a prabhu please explain the process, of initiation, diksha, siksa, ritvik, etc in simple terms please.. It didn't sound to diffcult when Sri Narada Muni, initiated a hunter with the name of Sri Lord Rama, Any help would be appriciated......Haribol Ps Why don't people get loggin names, instead of signing on as guest all the time, it makes it difficult to tell who's who, what r u shy or something? (please don't reply to this)

VOLUME THREE Diary of a Traveling Preacher, volume 3 - Chapter 38 "Bravo Krishna! Bravo Krishna!" Loch, Poland, May 31st to June 3rd 2001 For many months, due to my busy schedule, my disciples have been worshipping my Laksmi-Nrsimha Deity. Here on the tour they placed Them on the altar in our temple room while upstairs, in my room, I have been doing puja to a few of my salagrams. However, after a dream I had last night, I brought Their Lordships back to my room. I hesitate to share the dream, because Srila Prabhupada has warned that only very advanced devotees can take instructions from the Lord in dreams: " . . . one must be a very elevated devotee in order to be able to speak with the Supreme Lord. Sometimes the Lord informs the devotee through dreams. These exchanges between the Deity and the devotee are not understandable by atheists, but actually the devotee enjoys them. [Teachings of Lord Caitanya] In a letter to a young disciple, Srila Prabhupada states, however, that the Lord may sometimes appear in dreams even to one not so advanced, as myself: "So far your dreams are concerned, it is very nice that you are thinking about Krsna consciousness even while sleeping. Krsna is so nice that we want to remember Him even more than twenty-four hours daily . . . Lord Jagannatha is very kind, and He can also appear in mind in His own form, so why not in your dream?" [Letter to Bhaktin Linda - February 19, 1970] I dreamt I was chanting my rounds in a small house in Vrindavan, when a devotee approached me excitedly with a letter. Not wanting to be distracted unless it was urgent, I asked him from whom the letter came. Looking at me with a smile on his face, he replied, "It's from from Laksmi-Nrsimha!" I immediately took the letter and gazed at the beautiful Sanskrit-like handwriting on the cover. It said: "To Indradyumna Swami." On the back, in the same ornate lettering, was written, "From Laksmi-Nrsimha." I thought, "My gosh. My Deities have written me a letter!" With great care and attention I tried to open the envelope, but was unable to do so. Bhakti Bringa Govinda Maharaja was present and said to me, "You'll have to take it to a sadhu who can help you." So I walked into the Vrindavan forest where several sadhus were sitting, and respectfully asked one if he would help me open the letter. In a sober mood, he took the envelope and easily opened it. Impatient, I asked, "Your Holiness, what does it say?" Looking up at me he replied, "They want you to worship Them." All the devotees on the tour are grateful that Laksmi-Nrsimha protected them from serious injury the night our festival was attacked. They are also grateful to the many devotees around the world who responded to our plea for capital to hire the professional security team that now guards each of our programs. Half the amount of laksmi required to keep the security team with us until mid August, when our festivals end, has been raised. Yesterday at ., when I informed the members of the tour how help is coming in, one boy, his head still swathed in bandages, raised his hand and said in appreciation, "Now I know what Srila Prabhupada meant when he said 'your love for me will be tested by how you cooperate amongst yourselves.' " Yesterday, the biggest newspaper in the region ran a front-page article on the attack with a picture of the 12-year-old girl who was injured. In big bold letters it said, "DISGRACE!" and described the incident as religious intolerance. As a result, public response has been extremely favorable. Everywhere we go people come forward and offer us words of sympathy. Yesterday on harinama in Loch, a motorcycle gang slowed down as they approached us on the road. I thought, "Oh no, here we go again," when suddenly all the gang members simultaneously gave us the thumbs-up signal and started yelling, "Bravo Krishna! Bravo Krishna!" During the last 10 days, time has flown by due to the intensity of events. Yesterday morning, as I sat chanting my rounds, I had the realization that despite the fact that I was busily engaged in full-time devotional service these past days, my remembrance of the Lord was flickering. I lamented, feeling far from the goal of being able to remember Krsna constantly. sa hanis tan mahacchidram sa mohah sa ca vibhramah yan muhurtamksanam vapi vasudevam na cintayet "If even a moment's remembrance of Vasudeva is missed, that is the greatest loss, that is the greatest illusion, and that is the greatest anomaly." [Visnu Purna] I prayed to come to the stage of being able to remember Krsna at every step in life, either in happiness or distress. As if in response to my prayer, later that day on the Internet I chanced upon the poem of a little girl dying of cancer in a New York hospital. The essence of her poem was that we should take time to be conscious of the nice things around us and not be oblivious to them as life races by. Although her sentiments deal with the material world, I read into her poem my own desire to remember the Lord and become fully conscious of Him at every moment. Slow Dance Have you ever watched kids On a merry-go-round? Or listened to the rain Slapping on the ground? Ever followed a butterfly's erratic flight? Or gazed at the sun into the fading night? You better slow down. Don't dance so fast. Time is short. The music won't last. Do you run through each day On the fly? When you ask, "How are you?" Do you hear the reply? When the day is done Do you lie in your bed With the next hundred chores Running through your head? You'd better slow down. Don't dance so fast. Time is short. The music won't last. Ever told your child, "We'll do it tomorrow"? And in your haste Not seen his sorrow? Ever lost touch Let a good friendship die, 'Cause you never had time To call and say, "Hi"? You'd better slow down. Don't dance so fast. Time is short. The music won't last. When you run so fast to get somewhere You miss half the fun of getting there. When you worry and hurry through your day It is like an unopened gift . . . Thrown away. Life is not a race. Do take it slower. Hear the music Before the song is over. For devotees of the Lord, the "music" is contained in the enlightening words of great saints like Narottam das Thakur: "O Lord Hari! I have spent my life uselessly. Although I have obtained a rare human birth, I have refused to worship Radha and Krsna, and in this way I have knowingly drunk poison." [ Prarthana ] After discovering the girl's poem, I chanced upon my own notes from my stay in Vrindavan last Kartika. In those pages I was appreciating the calm and peaceful atmosphere of the holy dhama, so conducive to study and learning. There I wrote of Vrindavan's temples, sadhus and sacred cows. How far away that all seems from the battlefield I'm on now - but I know that desiring to live in Vrindavan and preaching in the terrible cities of Kali-yuga are intricately connected. To attain eternal residence in Sri Vrindavan Dhama one has to get the blessings of the Lord, and preaching, as difficult and dangerous as it can be, is an important factor in that calculation. ". . . There are many examples in history of devotees of the Lord who risked their lives for the spreading of God consciousness. . . . Why such risk? Because they wanted to spread Krsna consciousness, and it is difficult. . . Now, we can imagine how merciful Krsna is to those engaged in His service, risking everything for Him. Therefore it is certain that such persons must reach the supreme planet after leaving the body." [bhagavad-gita 11.55, purport] Surely, despite all opposition, if we continue preaching our budding desire to one day reside in Vrindavan will mature, and by the mercy of Lord Caitanya we'll gradually become qualified to enter that eternal abode. yatha yatha gaura padaravinde vindeta bhaktim krta punya rasih tatha tathotsarpati hrdy akasmad radha padambhoja sudhambu rasih "To the degree that we surrender to Lord Caitanya's service, to that degree we acquire qualification for the service of Radharani's lotus feet in Vrindavan." [Prabodhananda Sarasvati]

HK Teachings of Lord Caitanya From Prologue It was at the age of 16 or 17 that he traveled to Gaya with a host to sing the holy name of Hari in the streets and bazaars. This created a sensation and roused different feelings in different quarters. The bhaktas were highly pleased. The smärta brahmanas became jealous of Nimai Pandita's success and complained to Chand Kazi against the character of Caitanya as un-Hindu. The Kazi came to Srivasa Pandita's house and broke a mrdanga (khola drum) there and declared that unless Nimai Pandita ceased to make noise about his queer religion he would be obliged to enforce Mohammedanism on him and his followers. This was brought to Mahaprabhu's notice. He ordered the townspeople to appear in the evening, each with a torch in his hand. This groups, and on his arrival in the Kazi's house, he held a long conversation with the Kazi and in the end communicated into his heart his Vaishnava influence by touching his body. The Kazi then wept and admitted that he had felt a keen spiritual influence which had cleared up his doubts and produced in him a religious sentiment which gave him the highest ecstasy. The Kazi then joined the sankitana party. The world was astonished at the spiritual power of the Great Lord, and hundreds and hundreds of heretics converted and joined the banner of Visvambhara after this affair. Haibol /images/graemlins/smile.gif

HK What the difference between diksha and siksha? no, I don't know either

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HK Please take some time to read the following from:- The Bhagavad-Gita Chapter Nine The Most Confidential Knowledge TEXT Eleven avajananti mam mudha manusim tanum asritam param bhavam ajananto mama bhuta-mahesvaram SYNONYMS avajananti--deride; mam--Me; mudhah--foolish men; manusim--in human form; tanum--body; asritam--assuming; param--transcendental; bhavam--nature; ajanantah--not knowing; mama--Mine; bhuta--everything that be; maha-isvaram--the supreme proprietor. TRANSLATION Fools deride Me when I descend in the human form. They do not know My transcendental nature and My supreme dominion over all that be. PURPORT From the other explanations of the previous verses in this chapter, it is clear that the Supreme Personality of Godhead, although appearing like a human being, is not a common man. The Personality of Godhead, who conducts the creation, maintenance and annihilation of the complete cosmic manifestation, cannot be a human being. Yet there are many foolish men who consider Krsna to be merely a powerful man and nothing more. Actually, He is the original Supreme Personality, as is confirmed in the Brahma-samhita (isvarah paramah krsnah); He is the Supreme Lord. There are many isvaras, controllers, and one appears greater than another. In the ordinary management of affairs in the material world, we find some official or director, and above him there is a secretary, and above him a minister, and above him a president. Each of them is a controller, but one is controlled by another. In the Brahma-samhita it is said that Krsna is the supreme controller; there are many controllers undoubtedly, both in the material and spiritual world, but Krsna is the supreme controller (isvarah paramah krsnah) and His body is sac-cid-ananda, nonmaterial. Material bodies cannot perform the wonderful acts described in previous verses. His body is eternal, blissful and full of knowledge. Although He is not a common man, the foolish deride Him and consider Him to be a man. His body is called here manusim because He is acting just like a man, a friend of Arjuna's, a politician involved in the Battle of Kuruksetra. In so many ways He is acting just like an ordinary man, but actually His body is sac-cid-ananda-vigraha--eternal bliss and knowledge absolute. This is confirmed in the Vedic language also (sac-cid-ananda-rupaya krsnaya): "I offer my obeisances unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna, who is the eternal blissful form of knowledge." There are other descriptions in the Vedic language also. Tam ekam govindam: "You are Govinda, the pleasure of the senses and the cows." Sac-cid-ananda-vigraham: "And Your form is transcendental, full of knowledge, bliss and eternality." Despite the transcendental qualities of Lord Krsna's body, its full bliss and knowledge, there are many so-called scholars and commentators of Bhagavad-gita who deride Krsna as an ordinary man. The scholar may be born an extraordinary man due to his previous good work, but this conception of Sri Krsna is due to a poor fund of knowledge. Therefore he is called mudha, for only foolish persons consider Krsna to be an ordinary human being because they do not know the confidential activities of the Supreme Lord and His different energies. They do not know that Krsna's body is a symbol of complete knowledge and bliss, that He is the proprietor of everything that be and that He can award liberation to anyone. Because they do not know that Krsna has so many transcendental qualifications, they deride Him. Nor do they know that the appearance of the Supreme Personality of Godhead in this material world is a manifestation of His internal energy. He is the master of the material energy. As has been explained in several places (mama maya duratyaya), He claims that the material energy, although very powerful, is under His control, and whoever surrenders unto Him can get out of the control of this material energy. If a soul surrendered to Krsna can get out of the influence of material energy, then how can the Supreme Lord, who conducts the creation, maintenance and annihilation of the whole cosmic nature, have a material body like us? So this conception of Krsna is complete foolishness. Foolish persons, however, cannot conceive that the Personality of Godhead, Krsna, appearing just like an ordinary man, can be the controller of all the atoms and of the gigantic manifestation of the universal form. The biggest and the minutest are beyond their conception, so they cannot imagine that a form like that of a human being can simultaneously control the infinite and the minute. Actually although He is controlling the infinite and the finite, He is apart from all this manifestation. It is clearly stated concerning His yogam aisvaram, His inconceivable transcendental energy, that He can control the infinite and the finite simultaneously and that He can remain aloof from them. Although the foolish cannot imagine how Krsna, who appears just like a human being, can control the infinite and the finite, those who are pure devotees accept this, for they know that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore they completely surrender unto Him and engage in Krsna consciousness, devotional service of the Lord. There are many controversies amongst the impersonalists and the personalists about the Lord's appearance as a human being. But if we consult Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam, the authoritative texts for understanding the science of Krsna, then we can understand that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is not an ordinary man, although He appeared on this earth as an ordinary human. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, First Canto, First Chapter, when the sages inquire about the activities of Krsna, it is stated that His appearance as a man bewilders the foolish. No human being could perform the wonderful acts that Krsna performed while He was present on this earth. When Krsna appeared before His father and mother, Vasudeva and Devaki, He appeared with four hands, but after the prayers of the parents, He transformed Himself into an ordinary child. His appearance as an ordinary human being is one of the features of His transcendental body. In the Eleventh Chapter of the Gita also it is stated, tenaiva rupena etc. Arjuna prayed to see again that form of four hands, and when Krsna was thus petitioned by Arjuna, He again assumed His original form. All these different features of the Supreme Lord are certainly not those of an ordinary human being. Some of those who deride Krsna, who are infected with the Mayavadi philosophy, quote the following verse from the Srimad-Bhagavatam to prove that Krsna is just an ordinary man. Aham sarvesu bhutesu bhutatmavasthitah sada: "The Supreme is present in every living entity." (Bhag. 3.29.21) We should better take note of this particular verse from the Vaisnava acaryas like Jiva Gosvami instead of following the interpretation of unauthorized persons who deride Krsna. Jiva Gosvami, commenting on this verse, says that Krsna, in His plenary expansion as Paramatma, is situated in the moving and the nonmoving entities as the Supersoul, so any neophyte devotee who simply gives his attention to the arca-murti, the form of the Supreme Lord in the temple, and does not respect other living entities is uselessly worshiping the form of the Lord in the temple. There are three kinds of devotees of the Lord, and the neophyte is in the lowest stage. The neophyte devotee gives more attention to the Deity in the temple than to other devotees, so Jiva Gosvami warns that this sort of mentality should be corrected. A devotee should see that Krsna is present in everyone's heart as Paramatma; therefore every body is the embodiment or the temple of the Supreme Lord, and as such, as one offers respect to the temple of the Lord, he should similarly properly respect each and every body in whom the Paramatma dwells. Everyone should therefore be given proper respect and should not be neglected. There are also many impersonalists who deride temple worship. They say that since God is everywhere, why should one restrict himself to temple worship? But if God is everywhere, is He not in the temple or in the Deity? Although the personalist and the impersonalist will fight with one another perpetually, a perfect devotee in Krsna consciousness knows that although Krsna is the Supreme Personality, He is all-pervading, as is confirmed in the Brahma-samhita. Although His personal abode is Goloka Vrndavana and He is always staying there, still, by His different manifestations of energy and by His plenary expansion, He is present everywhere in all parts of the material and spiritual creations.

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The Universal Teacher by Abhay Charan Das For Members, Sri Gaudiya Matha, Bombay -- <font color="red"> The following speech was given by Abhay Charan Das ( His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada ) before the members of the Sri Gauniya Matha in Bombay, in February 1936, on the occasion of the appearance anniversary of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura. </font color> saksad-dharitvena samasta-sastrair uktas tatha bhavyata eva sadbhin kintu prabhor yan priya eva tasya vande guron sri-caranaravindam "In the revealed scriptures it is declared that the spiritual master should be worshiped like the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and this injunction is obeyed by pure devotees of the Lord. The spiritual master is the most confidential servant of the Lord. Thus let us offer our respectful obeisances unto the lotus feet of our spiritual master." Gentlemen, on behalf of the members of the Bombay branch of the Gauniya Matha, let me welcome you all because you have so kindly joined us tonight in our congregational offerings of homage to the lotus feet of the world teacher, Acaryadeva, who is the founder of this Gauniya Mission and the the president-acarya of Sri Sri Visva-vaisnava Raja-sabha&#8212;I mean my eternal divine master, Paramahamsa Parivrajakacarya Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja. Sixty-two years ago, on this auspicious day, the Acaryadeva made his appearance by the call of Thakura Bhaktivinoda at Sri-ksetra, Jagannatha-dhama, at Puri. Gentlemen, the offering of such an homage as has been arranged this evening to the Acaryadeva is not a sectarian concern, for when we speak of the fundamental principle of gurudeva, or acaryadeva, we speak of something that is of universal application. There does not arise any question of discriminating my guru from yours or anyone elses. There is only one guru, who appears in an infinity of forms to teach you, me, and all others. The guru, or acaryadeva, as we learn from the bona fide scriptures, delivers the message of the absolute world, the transcendental abode of the Absolute Truth. We have heard so many times: maha-jano yena gatan sa panthan ("Traverse the trail which your previous acarya has passed"), but we have hardly tried to understand the real purport of this sloka. If we scrutinizingly study this proposition, we can understand that the maha-jana is one and the royal road to the transcendental world is also one. In the Munnaka Upanisad [1.2.12] it is said: tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigaccet samit-panin srotriyam brahma-nistham "In order to learn the transcendental science, one must approach the bona fide spiritual master in disciplic succession, who is fixed in the Absolute Truth." Thus it has been enjoined herewith that in order to receive that transcendental knowledge, one must approach the guru. Therefore, if the Absolute Truth is one, about which we think there is no difference of opinion, the guru also cannot be two. The Acaryadeva to whom we have assembled tonight to offer our humble homage is not the guru of a sectarian institution or one out of many differing exponents of the truth. On the contrary, he is the Jagad-guru, the guru of all of us; the only difference is that some obey him wholeheartedly, while others do not obey him directly. In the Bhagavatam [11.17.27] it is said: acaryam mam vijaniyan navamanyeta karhicit na martya-buddhyasuyeta sarva-deva-mayo gurun "One should understand the spiritual master to be as good as I am," said the Blessed Lord. "Nobody should be jealous of the spiritual master or think of him as an ordinary man, because the spiritual master is the sum total of all demigods." That is, the acarya has been identified with God Himself. He has nothing to do with the affairs of this mundane world. He does not descend here to meddle with the affairs of temporary necessities but to deliver the fallen, conditioned souls the souls, or entities, who have come here to the material world with a motive of enjoyment by the mind and five organs of sense perception. He appears before us to reveal the light of the Vedas and to bestow upon us the blessings of full-nedged freedom, after which we should hanker at every step of our lifes journey. The transcendental knowledge of the Vedas was first uttered by God to Brahma, the creator of this particular universe. From Brahma the knowledge descended to Narada, from Narada to Vyasadeva, and from Vyasadeva to Madhva, and in this process of disciplic succession the transcendental knowledge was transmitted by one disciple to another till it reached Lord Gauranga, Sri Krsna Caitanya, who posed as the disciple and successor of Sri Isvara Puri. The present Acaryadeva is the tenth disciplic representative from Sri Rupa Gosvami, the original representative of Lord Caitanya who preached this transcendental tradition in its fullness. The knowledge that we receive from our Gurudeva is not different from that imparted by God Himself and the succession of the acaryas in the preceptorial line of Brahma. We adore this auspicious day as Sri Vyasa-puja-tithi because the acarya is the living representative of Vyasadeva, the divine compiler of the Vedas, Puranas, Bhagavad-gita, Mahabharata, and Srimad-Bhagavatam. One who interprets the divine sound, or sabda-brahma, by his imperfect sense perception cannot be a real spiritual guru, because in the absence of proper disciplinary training under the bona fide acarya, the interpreter is sure to differ from Vyasadeva (as the Mayavadis do). Srila Vyasadeva is the prime authority of Vedic revelation, and therefore such an irrelevant interpreter cannot be accepted as the guru, or acarya, howsoever equipped he may be with all the acquirements of material knowledge. As it is said in the Padma Purana, sampradaya-vihina ye mantras te nisphala matan: "Unless you are initiated by a bona fide spiritual master in the disciplic succession, the mantra that you might have received is without any effect." On the other hand, one who has received the transcendental knowledge by aural reception from the bona fide preceptor in the disciplic chain, and who has sincere regard for the real acarya, must needs be enlightened with the revealed knowledge of the Vedas. But this knowledge is permanently sealed to the cognitive approach of the empiricists. As it is said in Svetasvatara Upanisad [6.23]: yasya deve para bhaktir yatha deve tatha gurau tasyaite kathita hy arthan prakasante mahatmanan "Only unto those great souls who simultaneously have implicit faith in both the Lord and the spiritual master are all the imports of Vedic knowledge automatically revealed." Gentlemen, our knowledge is so poor, our senses are so imperfect, and our sources are so limited that it is not possible for us to have even the slightest knowledge of the absolute region without surrendering ourselves at the louts feet of Sri Vyasadeva or his bona fide representative. Every moment we are being deceived by the knowledge of our direct perception. It is all the creation or concoction of the mind, which is always deceiving, changing, and nickering. We cannot know anything of the transcendental region by our limited, perverted method of observation and experiment. But all of us can lend our eager ears for the aural reception of the transcendental sound transmitted from that region to this through the unadulterated medium of Sri Gurudeva or Sri Vyasadeva. Therefore, gentlemen, we should surrender ourselves today at the feet of the representative of Sri Vyasadeva for the elimination of all our differences bred by our unsubmissive attitude. It is accordingly said in Sri Gita [4.34]: tad viddhi pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya upadeksyanti te jnanam jnaninas tattva-darsinan "Just approach the wise and bona fide spiritual master. Surrender unto him first and try to understand him by inquiries and service. Such a wise spiritual master will enlighten you with transcendental knowledge, for he has already known the Absolute Truth." To receive the transcendental knowledge we must completely surrender ourselves to the real acarya in a spirit of ardent inquiry and service. Actual performance of service to the Absolute under the guidance of the acarya is the only vehicle by which we can assimilate the transcendental knowledge. Todays meeting for offering our humble services and homage to the feet of the Acaryadeva will enable us to be favored with the capacity of assimilating the transcendental knowledge so kindly transmitted by him to all persons without distinction. Gentlemen, we are all more or less proud of our past Indian civilization, but we actually do not know the real nature of that civilization. We cannot be proud of our past material civilization, which is now a thousand times greater than in days gone by. It is said that we are passing through the age of darkness, the Kali-yuga. What is this darkness? The darkness cannot be due to backwardness in material knowledge, because we now have more of it than formerly. If not we ourselves, our neighbors at any rate have plenty of it. Therefore, we must conclude that the darkness of the present age is not due to a lack of material advancement, but that we have lost the clue to our spiritual advancement, which is the prime necessity of human life and the criterion of the highest type of human civilization. Throwing bombs from airplanes is no advancement of civilization from the primitive, uncivilized practice of dropping big stones on the heads of enemies from the tops of hills. Improvement in the art of killing our neighbors by means of machine guns and poisonous gases is certainly no advancement from primitive barbarism, which prided itself on its art of killing by bows and arrows. Nor does the development of a sense of pampered selfishness prove anything more than intellectual animalism. True human civilization is very different from all these states, and therefore in the Katha Upanisad [1.3.14] there is the emphatic call: uttisthata jagrata prapya varan nibodhata ksurasya dhara nisita duratyaya durgam pathas tat kavayo vadanti "Please wake up and try to understand the boon which you now have in this human form of life. The path of spiritual realization is very difficult; it is sharp like a razors edge. That is the opinion of learned, transcendental scholars." Thus, while others were yet in the womb of historical oblivion, the sages of India had developed a different kind of civilization, which enabled them to know themselves. They had discovered that we are not at all material entities, but that we are all spiritual, permanent, and indestructible servants of the Absolute. But because we have, against our better judgment, chosen to completely identify ourselves with this present material existence, our sufferings have multiplied according to the inexorable law of birth and death, with its consequent diseases and anxieties. These sufferings cannot be really mitigated by any provision of material happiness, because matter and spirit are completely different elements. It is just as if you took an aquatic animal out of water and put it on the land, supplying all manner of happiness possible on land. The deadly sufferings of the animal are not capable of being relieved at all until it is taken out of its foreign environment. Spirit and matter are completely contradictory things. All of us are spiritual entities. We cannot have perfect happiness, which is our birthright, however much we may meddle with the affairs of the mundane things. Perfect happiness can by ours only when we are restored to our natural state of spiritual existence. This is the distinctive message of our ancient Indian civilization, this is the message of the Gita, this is the message of the Vedas and the Puranas, and this is the message of all the real acaryas, including our present Acaryadeva, in the line of Lord Caitanya. Gentlemen, although it is imperfectly that we have been enabled, by his grace, to understand the sublime messages of our Acaryadeva, Om Visnupada Paramahamsa Parivrajakacarya Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja, we must admit that we have realized definitely that the divine message from his holy lips is the congenial thing for suffering humanity. All of us should hear him patiently. If we listen to the transcendental sound without unnecessary opposition, he will surely have mercy upon us. The acaryas message is to take us back to our original home, back to God. Let me repeat, therefore, that we should hear him patiently, follow him in the measure of our conviction, and bow down at his lotus feet for releasing us from our present causeless unwillingness for serving the Absolute and all souls. From the Gita we learn that even after the destruction of the body, the atma, or the soul, is not destroyed; he is always the same, always new and fresh. Fire cannot burn him, water cannot dissolve him, the air cannot dry him up, and the sword cannot kill him. He is everlasting and eternal, and this is also confirmed in the Srimad-Bhagavatam [10.84.13]: yasyatma-buddhin kunape tri-dhatuke sva-dhin kalatradisu bhauma ijya-dhin yat-tirtha-buddhin salile na karhicij janesv abhijnesu sa eva go-kharan "Anyone who accepts this bodily bag of three elements [bile, mucus, and air] as his self, who has an affinity for an intimate relationship with his wife and children, who considers his land as worshipable, who takes bath in the waters of the holy places of pilgrimage but never takes advantage of those persons who are in actual knowledge, he is no better than an ass or a cow." Unfortunately, in these days we have all been turned foolish by neglecting our real comfort and identifying the material cage with ourselves. We have concentrated all our energies for the meaningless upkeep of the material cage for its own sake, completely neglecting the captive soul within. The cage is meant for the undoing of the bird; the bird is not meant for the welfare of the cage. Let us, therefore, deeply ponder this. All our activities are now turned toward the upkeep of the cage, and the most we do is try to give some food to the mind by art and literature. But we do not know that this mind is also material in a more subtle form. This is stated in the Gita [7.4]: bhumir apo nalo vayun kham mano buddhir eva ca ahankara itiyam me bhinna prakrtir astadha "Earth, water, fire, air, sky, intelligence, mind, and ego are all My separated energies." We have scarcely tried to give any food to the soul, which is distinct from the body and mind; therefore we are all committing suicide in the proper sense of the term. The message of the Acaryadeva is to give us a warning to halt such wrong activities. Let us therefore bow down at his lotus feet for the unalloyed mercy and kindness he has bestowed upon us. Gentlemen, do not for a moment think that my Gurudeva wants to put a complete brake on the modern civilization&#8212;an impossible feat. But let us learn from him the art of making the best use of a bad bargain, and let us understand the importance of this human life, which is fit for the highest development of true consciousness. The best use of this rare human life should not be neglected. As it is said in Srimad-Bhagavatam [11.9.29]: labdhva sudurlabham idam bahu-sambhavante manusyam arthadam anityam apiha dhiran turnam yateta na pated anumrtyu yavan ninsreyasaya visayan khalu sarvatan syat "Human life is obtained after many, many births, and though it is temporary, it offers the highest benefits. Thus a sober and intelligent man should immediately try to fulfill his mission and attain the highest profit in life before another death occurs. He should avoid sense gratification, which is available in all circumstances." Let us not misuse this human life in the vain pursuit of material enjoyment, or, in other words, for the sake of only eating, sleeping, fearing, and sensuous activities. The Acaryadevas message is conveyed by the words of Sri Rupa Gosvami: anasaktasya visayan yatharham upayunjatan nirbandhan krsna-sambandhe yuktam vairagyam ucyate prapancikataya buddhya hari-sambandhi-vastunan mumuksubhin parityago vairagyam phalgu kathyate "One is said to be situated in the fully renounced order of life if he lives in accordance with Krsna consciousness. He should be without attachment for sense gratification and should accept only what is necessary for the upkeep of the body. On the other hand, one who renounces things which could be used in the service of Krsna, under the pretext that such things are material, does not practice complete renunciation." The purport of these slokas can only be realized by fully developing the rational portion of our life, not the animal portion. Sitting at the feet of the Acaryadeva, let us try to understand from this transcendental source of knowledge what we are, what is this universe, what is God, and what is our relationship with Him. The message of Lord Caitanya is the message for the living entities and the message of the living world. Lord Caitanya did not bother Himself for the upliftment of this dead world, which is suitably named Martyaloka, the world where everything is destined to die. He appeared before us four hundred fifty years ago to tell us something of the transcendental universe, where everything is permanent and everything is for the service of the Absolute. But recently Lord Caitanya has been misrepresented by some unscrupulous persons, and the highest philosophy of the Lord has been misinterpreted to be the cult of the lowest type of society. We are glad to announce tonight that our Acaryadeva, with his unusual kindness, saved us from this horrible type of degradation, and therefore we bow down at his lotus feet with all humility. Gentlemen, it has been a mania of the cultured (or uncultured) society of the present day to accredit the Personality of Godhead with merely impersonal features and to stultify Him by claiming that He has no senses, no form, no activity, no head, no legs, and no enjoyment. This has also been the pleasure of the modern scholars due to their sheer lack of proper guidance and true introspection in the spiritual realm. All these empiricists think alike: all the enjoyable things should be monopolized by the human society, or by a particular class only, and the impersonal God should be a mere order supplier for their whimsical feats. We are happy that we have been relieved of this horrible type of malady by the mercy of His Divine Grace Paramahamsa Parivrajakacarya Bhakti-siddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja. He is our eye-opener, our eternal father, our eternal preceptor, and our eternal guide. Let us therefore bow down at his lotus feet on this auspicious day. Gentlemen, although we are like ignorant children in the knowledge of the Transcendence, still His Divine Grace, my Gurudeva, has kindled a small fire within us to dissipate the invincible darkness of empirical knowledge. We are now so much on the safe side that no amount of philosophical argument by the empiric schools of thought can deviate us an inch from the position of our eternal dependence on the lotus feet of His Divine Grace. Furthermore, we are prepared to challenge the most erudite scholars of the Mayavada school and prove that the personality of Godhead and His transcendental sports in Goloka alone constitute the sublime information of the Vedas. There are explicit indications of this in the Chandogya Upanisad [8.13.1]: syamac chavalam prapadye savalac chyamam prapadye. "For receiving the mercy of Krsna, I surrender unto His energy [Radha], and for receiving the mercy of His energy, I surrender unto Krsna." Also, in the Rg Veda [1.2.22.20]: tad visnon paramam padam sada pasyanti surayo diviva caksur atatam . . . visnor yat paramam padam. "The lotus feet of Lord Visnu are the supreme objective of all the demigods. These lotus feet of the Lord are as enlightening as the sun in the sky." The plain truth so vividly explained in the Gita, which is the central lesson of the Vedas, is not understood or even suspected by the most powerful scholars of the empiric schools. Herein lies the secret of Sri Vyasa-puja. When we meditate on the transcendental pastimes of the Absolute Godhead, we are proud to feel that we are His eternal servitors, and we become jubilant and dance with joy. All glory to my divine master, for it is he who has out of his unceasing now of mercy stirred up within us such a movement of eternal existence. Let us bow down at his louts feet. Gentlemen, had he not appeared before us to deliver us from the thralldom of this gross worldly delusion, surely we should have remained for lives and ages in the darkness of helpless captivity. Had he not appeared before us, we would not have been able to understand the eternal truth of the sublime teaching of Lord Caitanya. Had he not appeared before us, we could not have been able to know the significance of the first sloka of Brahma-samhita: isvaran paraman krsnan sac-cid-ananda-vigrahan anadir adir govindan sarva-karana-karanam "Krsna, who is know as Govinda, is the Supreme Godhead. He has an eternal, blissful, spiritual body. He is the origin of all, He has no other origin, and He is the prime cause of all causes." Personally, I have no hope for any direct service for the coming crores of births of the sojourn of my life, but I am confident that some day or other I shall be delivered from this mire of delusion in which I am at present so deeply sunk. Therefore let me with all my earnestness pray at the lotus feet of my divine master to allow me to suffer the lot for which I am destined due to my past misdoings, but to let me have this power of recollection: that I am nothing but a tiny servant of the Almighty Absolute Godhead, realized through the unninching mercy of my divine master. Let me therefore bow down at his lotus feet with all the humility at my command. -- This was a speech by A.C Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada stressing the importance of guru, without whose grace, we cannot get Krishna. Therefore, I seek refuge of Srila Prabhupada. Jai Srila Prabhupada!

HK give you wealth to Krishna then go find a job! ps...good jobs r hard to find nowdays, so you could always rob a bank /images/graemlins/mad.gif /images/graemlins/mad.gif

HK Better than worship of God, is worship of His devotee. Please the devotee, the you can please God easily. The vedas prophesied the appearance of Prohfit Mohammed, because you have an impersonal view of God, theres no point me explaining anything to you my friend /images/graemlins/frown.gif I have done thi before to no avail.. Haribol ps to a' Sp Last Official Declaration I had a good thread going and you locked it out, took me ages to write it out, thanks a lot prabhu!

HK Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.2.19 August 22, 1972, Los Angeles Listen /images/graemlins/smile.gif

HK Chant this mantra- Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare (a lot please) & try to read the Bhagavad Gita As It Is by Srila Prabhupada Associate with devotees Ps don't go to Mall, unless they have a good sale on! /images/graemlins/cool.gif as for work, find a part/full job /images/graemlins/frown.gif and give some money to Krishna....Haribol /images/graemlins/smile.gif

HK Devotees of Lord Sri Krishna believe (as it is written in the Vedas) that Prophet Mohammed is an Incarnation of Krishna, who came down to help the 5th class of people.. reach God/Allah. It is said in the Bhagavad Gita:-. Out of the 8,400,000 different species of living beings, there are 400,000 human species. Out of these there are numerous lower forms of human life that are mostly uncivilized. The civilized human beings are those who have regulated principles of social, political and religious life. So from this you can see that because of the different species of human beings, each one must act differently, so they have different personality's and inclinations toward different religions, hence so many different religions are MADE by Krishna, so in the end the Goal is ONE to reach GOD! Some take a long time, some maybe not so long, but at the end of the day, we all want to reach God, for we are HIS CHILDREN.......Haribol /images/graemlins/smile.gif

HK I think I get it now, heres what I think you are saying in simplified terms prabhuji.... Srila Prabhupada (Acaraya in the line of disiplic succession form Lord Sri Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu) His 11 initiated disciples, have the authority to initiate disciples all over the world on the behalf of Srila Prabhupada Srila Prabhupada always remaining the original diksha guru The 11 disciples (ritvik) or some of them want to have, the same authority as Srila Prabhupda (and sit on big seats), and become diksha gurus like Srila Prabhupada. Thereby thinking themselves on a par with Srila Prabhupda, (the ego and maya are unbelievable) The rest you have you have already mentioned Hope this right prabhuji, I am still learning...Haribol Ps.So what is the story right now with the original 11

HK Does that mean, that all Iskcon people are disobying the orders of the spititual master (Srila Prabhupada), and so they will fall down, if not today then soon? Is that what you saying prabhuji?

Bhagavad- Gita As It Is His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupäda CHAPTER THREE Karma-yoga TEXT 30 mayi sarvani karmani sannyasyadhyatma-cetasa nirasir nirmamo bhutva yudhyasva vigata-jvarah SYNONYMS mayi--unto Me; sarvani--all sorts of; karmani--activities; sannyasya--giving up completely; adhyatma--with full knowledge of the self; cetasa--consciousness; nirasih--without desire for profit; nirmamah--without ownership; bhutva--so being; yudhyasva--fight; vigata-jvarah--without being lethargic. TRANSLATION Therefore, O Arjuna, surrendering all your works unto Me, with mind intent on Me, and without desire for gain and free from egoism and lethargy, fight. PURPORT This verse clearly indicates the purpose of the Bhagavad-gita. The Lord instructs that one has to become fully Krsna conscious to discharge duties, as if in military discipline. Such an injunction may make things a little difficult; nevertheless duties must be carried out, with dependence on Krsna, because that is the constitutional position of the living entity. The living entity cannot be happy independent of the cooperation of the Supreme Lord because the eternal constitutional position of the living entity is to become subordinate to the desires of the Lord. Arjuna was, therefore, ordered by Sri Krsna to fight as if the Lord were his military commander. One has to sacrifice everything for the good will of the Supreme Lord, and at the same time discharge prescribed duties without claiming proprietorship. Arjuna did not have to consider the order of the Lord; he had only to execute His order. The Supreme Lord is the soul of all souls; therefore, one who depends solely and wholly on the Supreme Soul without personal consideration, or in other words, one who is fully Krsna conscious, is called adhyatma-cetasa. Nirasih means that one has to act on the order of the master. Nor should one ever expect fruitive results. The cashier may count millions of dollars for his employer, but he does not claim a cent for himself. Similarly, one has to realize that nothing in the world belongs to any individual person, but that everything belongs to the Supreme Lord. That is the real purport of mayi, or unto Me. And when one acts in such Krsna consciousness, certainly he does not claim proprietorship over anything. This consciousness is called nirmama, or nothing is mine. And, if there is any reluctance to execute such a stern order which is without consideration of so-called kinsmen in the bodily relationship, that reluctance should be thrown off; in this way one may become vigata-jvara or without feverish mentality or lethargy. Everyone, according to his quality and position, has a particular type of work to discharge, and all such duties may be discharged in Krsna consciousness, as described above. That will lead one to the path of liberation. Haribol!

HK Hundreds of Prabhupada's disciples were displaced by the disciples of the Godbrothers I guess every organization has some corruption innit, as 'maybe' Iskcon do, but the fact remains they have done, more for humanity than we can every measure, and prabhu, like you pointing out... their defects probably dosent help there cause, im sure if you are a sincere person then Krishna, will send His devotee to you, without any need to, join Iskcon. and can anyone really change Iskcon, only SP/krishna can!

HK why are you so negative all the time prabhu, at least Iskcon are spreading the message of Lord Chaitanya chanting and dancing in the streets, which is more than I can say for most people.

HK Devotee to mayavadi sannyasi. "Maharaj why are you banging your head on the wall?" "Because it feels so good when I stop."

Hare Krishna Impure thoughts are not impure in reality, they are really pure. If krishna is everything, then why worry about impure thoughts and pure thoughts. Good point, but only through pure thought can you acieve Krishna (takes time I guess (64 rounds)....Haribol