Amlesh

Can this verse be interpreted in isolation? I have not seen anyone do that.

 

Why not hear the whole story?

Ceteris Paribus.

Let us say A is a devotee who spends a lifetime in devotion to Krishna and B is a clever atheist.

 

A foolish devotee is much clever than a clever Atheist.

If we interpret BG 8.5 as complete in itself, then simply by thinking of krishna at the time of death, B will attain the same state as A and even worse, if A was not conscious during death, B will actually end up in a better position - just because of those few seconds!

 

Krishna carves the way of the Devotee to see him.

If this line of thinking is correct, then why should anyone bother to live a devotional life? What is the point of chanting? Tamal, for all his chanting and religious activites was killed in an accident and could not remember Krishna during his time of death.

 

That is what... who is the seer of God, apart from God no one knows.. that is the Only certainty.

That why you see Greats like Maharaj Bharata failing to take the Lord's name in the End and on the other hand sinners like Ajamila uttering the Name of Vishnu..

ANyways whoever selected be it Maharaj Bharata or Ajamila... there gaining liberation or not is not what really matter... there going or staying leads to universal welfare.. which to a real Vaishnava is more important.....KEYWORD: Lokanam hitakarinau

That is why it is said... He does not even ask liberation even though He only knows the real meaning of liberation.

It makes a lot more sense to take the position that everything one does during his/her lifetime matters and not just the thoughts of the last few seconds of life.

 

Or to put it more simply, do not interpret 8.5 literally.

Cheers

Do you think it is so easy.

NDE experience might say it all.

That is a stringent set of qualifications. I can safely say there is no human on the planet (or ever was) who meets all these qualifications.

 

We can instead keep it simple and say a Vaishnava is one who worships Vishnu - the dictionary meaning.

 

Cheers

Hmmm.... He does exist but very rarely he takes birth.

The Jnana Khanda is the Vedanta, which means the final portion of the Veda. All Vedanta schools recognize 10 Upanishads as the essence of Vedanta. You can find them easily enough.

 

Traditionally, Vedanta as for advanced seekers and in most cases, they would become sanyasis, which implies detachment from worldly interests. Technically, this should also include detachment from Peta and promoting veganism as however loftly, they are still worldly matters.

 

Obviously Sanyasa is not for everyone. It is unlikely that a young person can become a sanyasi and completely detach himself from the affairs of the world. He will be inclined to engage himself in religious and philantropic activites.

 

Cheers

That is what I was thinking...the Upanishad's teaches detachment from activities.

On the other Hand the portion that you outlined concerning Activities leading to good birth, birth place et al...

But Krishna does not negate both... He says.. you have your right in activities but not to its fruits.

He also does not negate detachment here... he says.. do, do it selflessly.

Sure.. we do have few reserved SAnyassis.... but rarer than them is the Mahatma... who works selflessly for the welfare of the Universe...

Fruitive actions apply to most people. The Jnana portions are for the advanced soul or mumukshu, who has lost interest in material life and seeks a higher goal. Such a person should seek Sanyasa and will focus on the Jnana Khanda. This individual, through Jnana, is able to differentiate between what is heard and what is to be heard - that is differentiate between the Karma Khanda (which is no longer relevant to him) and Jnana Khanda which is the knowledge of his true self.

 

This is is the Advaita position and this is how Shankara interprets 2.52.

 

I do not see the dark spot you see.

 

Cheers

And what is the focus of the Jnana Kanda... what is actually teaches.

The Dark Spot is in Bold:

VEDAS = FRUITIVE ACTIVITIES + JNANA

In any case, has Jnana anything to do with the Detachment from activities?

How do you explain the mixture of fruitive activities with jnana... a dark spot remains a dark spot.

All the different interpretation might be taken but none of them can remove the fruitive part of the Vedas logically...

 

How does the Shankara Bhasya explains the importance of Activities with a detached mood????

Krishna never interprets the direct meaning of the Vedas... He says about the rituals performed to get good this and that.. but continues on with the other side of coins also... and ultimately reconciles both..

In other words, you are clueless about the fundamental objective of the Vedas as seen by different schools. Not surprising at all, as Hare Krishnas receive absolutely no exposure to the Vedic corpus.

Mimamsa - Vedas prescribe frutiive actions only

Vedanta/Advaita - Vedas are a mix of frutive action injunctions and Jnana/Bhakti which leads to liberation. The Mumukshu ought to focus on the latter.

Vedanta/Tattvavada - The sole purpose of the Vedas is to promulgate Hari supremacy and Bhakti. Nothing else.

HKS - No clear position. Just a motley of varied and confused views, made up as they go along.

 

Hard to take your perspective on logic or anthing else seriously, as by your own admission, you do not know Vedas 101.

 

Cheers

How do you explain the mixture of fruitive activities with jnana... a dark spot remains a dark spot.

All the different interpretation might be taken but none of them can remove the fruitive part of the Vedas logically... but Krishna only knows how to do it...

How does the Shankara Bhasya explains the importance of Activities with a detached mood????

Krishna never interprets the direct meaning of the Vedas... He says about the rituals performed to get good this and that.. but continues on with the other side of coins also... and ultimately reconciles both..

I hope those terms and their real meaning would be well documented by the various ways for future references.

The coming generations, won't be pampered with all that.

While the Vedic Thought considered religious activity as an end in itself, the Upanishads emphasized Jnana and renunciation of activity.

Since both path of activities were one sided, I believe the Lord had to descend personally to correct their limited outlook of activity which was explained in His Gita.

He has drawn the idea of activity from the Vedas and desirelessness from the Upanishads and Synthesised the two - activity and desirelessness - into desireless activity, which leads to the maintenance of the World.. Bhakti.

There is no doubt about the importance of the Vedas, since from there on, the Lord teaches the rest.

Love you Krishna

When I buy broccoli in the supermarket, I give money to the store owner so he can buy a steak, to the cashier who will buy a hamburger, to the truck driver who will buy a pepperoni pizza, to the packager who will buy a leather belt, to the farmer who grew the crop who bought a leather coat with it, to the man who made that leather coat who will buy a steak with it, to the ......., and on and on.

 

lolz

Support zero consumption. Breathe air and eat fruit fallen from trees. Sleep under a different tree every night.

I would certainly love to be in that mood.

Bhakti is the mean.

Yes, best of a bad bargain, that's for sure. Just having a physical body is the bad bargain, and we're so illusioned that we demand a good mate as well.

jeffster/AMd

Yes, it's true.

What are needed to overcome are those desires, replaced by the Intense Love for Madhusudan.

Unfortunately, even for that I helpless, I depend on Him.

I don't know where I heard this, but in Kali yuga the women are not chaste and the men are not qualified. We do the best with what we have.

 

However, somewhere, the qualities of a good woman are delineated, several qualities, I remember only one which I think is "sweet speech."

 

jeffster/AMD

Taking out the best of a bad bargain.

I'm fortunate enough to have a cyber-darshanof the Lord.

Personally I think the qualaty of a good wife is someone who excepts you for who you are. Even if you have got a chronic illness, or have not got a fancy car or job. Basically she should love you, and you should love her.

The biggest thing understand each other.

The rural areas of India is the place where such ladies still exist.

Of course, there are exceptions there and not there also:rolleyes:

SB 11.8.10: Just as the honeybee takes nectar from all flowers, big and small, an intelligent human being should take the essence from all religious scriptures. (Shrimad Bhagvat Canto 11)........QUOTE Smaranam

Refreshing my memory

Novice..

lolz..

Got to get a glimpse on NDTV

lolz... that was really funny.

It reminds 10 years back.. when our Teacher used to tell say, "FIND the solution for the given problem."

We used to look below our table, and say "where??????"

Respected Members,

 

I have been following this thread for a while. God is epitome of goodness. I think as long as one has bhakti, god will always be there for him/her.

 

Being a vegan or vegetarian is indeed noble, but it doesn't guarantee one will taste liberation. The non-vegetarians should think...if this particular attachment (eating non-vege) is so difficult to overcome, how would they overcome much more adverse difficulties in their quest into spirituality and getting near god?

 

I am sure whatever eating or sexual preference you are, whatever deeds you do, god knows you better. Let the consequence of your actions determined and judged by god. In this precious lifetime, one must look ways to strengthen bhakti. Namaste.

Great post Kshamaji.

In my opinion Lord Ram has shown that mankind cant escape his own destiny. Even Lord Ram who knew all had to go through so much trouble.

Live in the forest for 14 years fight a war etc.

 

Jai sri ram, jai hanuman

Nice realisation.

CHeers

The difference between Jesus and Krishna is the difference between Father and Son.

Short and Sweet:)

You know it is 2009 now and these books were written a long ago. Just like we dress differently from people of those times, wear our hair differently, eat differently and live a completely different lifestyle, it is also natural to not want to replicate the role of women from a bygone era.

 

A better question would be, what are the qualities one can look for in a spouse, in our times? "Serving the husband" is not relevant to our times, when women can and do have their own careers, match upto men in all areas and are no longer playing second fiddle. The master-slave model has given way to a peer model. Some people (bigots?) may argue in favor of the older model, but we would obviously be better off analyzing the current model than wasting time brooding over an obsolete model.

 

Cheers

Yeah right, when I think the Kids of this Era won't be having the warmth of their mom... and also... no difference in calling a dad, dad and mom, mom. Since they share equal this and that.

In this modern times, women wants to act like men and men acting like women( a reversal of roles). If a survey were done, perhaps there are more women wearing pants than men in every part of the globe. The title of this thread should have been: The Qualities of a Good Husband not Wife.

lolz.. a good one

hahahaha.. It makes me remember, when my friend introduced me to his wife.. by saying.. "Here is my husband".

Yeps.. you are right melvin.. the reversal of role has created a serious disequilibrium in the natural functioning of the SACRED PAIR.

Respected members,

 

As said by Amlesh Ji, it is indeed hard to find fine ladies but in my opinion, it is extremely hard to find a good man nowadays too. People seldom ask themselves whether do they really deserve a good wife or husband as they think, it is their prerogative to choose an ideal spouse,without even seeing the enormous flaws they have in themselves.

 

Marriage should be entered with utmost sincerity and after given utmost thought so that each of the individual fit to perform duties as a wedded couple. If one of them seem unfit, it justs adds up the bad image of marriage has, in this modern time. Namaste.

True.. but I still believe the need of such great ladies is much more important for the society as a whole.

They are the linchpin for a sane society.

Zero days. Ravana only thought he had the real Sitadevi.

 

 

This is revealed in the Sri Caitanya-caritamrita Madhya 1.117 Sri Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya-lila Chapter 1 Verse 117:

Just somedays back, one of my little neighbor was recounting me that event.

The l'il fellow is well versed with many of those details, even though not from any school.

I was simply impressed.

I can imagine, how tough it tough it would be out there.

I guess, that's why Srila wanted so much that the Bhaktas be assembled, viz. Association.

This Forum is great.