Looters rampage - shoot 'em

[theist 1]

Turns out the long standing protocol set up for an evacuation BEFORE the storm hit was the school buses to be used to bus those with transportation out of town. This wasn't even attempted and the school buses remained park, abandoned and eventually under water. That is enough for 13,000 people. The mayor refuses to answer why he didn't order their use.

[AncientMariner 0]

for calling the WTO protestors crackers. I have nothing against them personally and I am white but the whole protest scene seemed like a big hippy(not that there is anything wrong with hippies) party so like I said it seemed like people just wanted to have an excuse to party if you know what I mean so thats why I called them crackers but I apologize for being insensitive.

[Guest guest]

In regard to ancient mariners posting about how the welfare state policies were the cause for this disaster, I think I know a solution that could fix it all.

 

The Cuban government is offering to help out with this disaster. Since New Orleans is a disaster zone with little economic value, and since most people there are blacks or low-life, why not offer the Cubans that the USA will cede the city of New Orleans to Cuba. Just sign over ownership of the problem to the Cubans. They have lots of doctors who are working in Venezuela to help the poor people. They can bring some of those doctors up to New Orleans and use their skills to heal all the injured babies that the US government hasn't been helping before now. Just let the Cubans sort out the mess. They have a strong leadership with a "we can do it" attitude.

 

- m.

[theist 1]

Thanks AM. Finally someone said it straight.

[Avinash 0]

So what do you think accounts for the difference?

 

First let me accept a few things. Even though I have not personally witnessed the situation in North Orleans, I am aware from media reports that the situation there is far worse than it was in Mumbai during recent flood.

 

I also accept that corruption is quite rampant in India at various levels.

 

But the situation in Mumbai did give people chance to indulge in looting if they so wished. But they did not. Rather they were helping one another. Some restaurant owners were giving free food to passers by. A few years back, during Bhuj earthquake also, this kind of humanity was witnessed.

 

I believe that many in NO also must be providing service to others. They should not be talked of in the same breath as the loothers and they must be praised for what they are doing.

 

Now, why the difference? I personally feel the difference is mainly because of close ties that Indian society has. Of course, the ties are getting diluted over time, but these are still present to a large extent.

[Guest guest]

It's one thing to dissect the moral ugliness that erupted in a welfare state that is New Orleans in the aftermath of Katrina. But it's another thing to blame them for their predicament.

 

What causes the 40-year history of Welfare in N.O.?

 

I will go on the personal level. My husband's brother and her wife are white. They live in Santa Barbara. They had degrees and transferable skills from the UK. She is a nurse and the husband, who is now retired, worked in cybernetics. They have only been in the US less than 40 years. Their children finished their degrees in Calif. and married professionals, as expected, they move in the same circles. One husband is a merchant banker. My friends from the Philippines are sisters . One is a doctor who is practicing in Long Island and the other is a nurse. They live in New York. They have only been living there less than 15 years. But why have these people, who are recent migrants, a much better life than the poor New Orleans residents caught up in this now indescribable squalor? They even have, maybe, a better life than most of the devotees - and perhaps the author of the article, too?

 

The common denominator is that they have good education, transferable skills and, because they had better lives from where they came from, they also look good, have high self-esteem and therefore they have better opportunities to get into the American way of life.

 

Poverty has bigger reasons than just the lack of initiatives and self-induced helplessness as cited by the author (R Trancinski). It has the component of low self-esteem, lack of education, lack of real opportunity, lack of support system. It is systemic and not just individual. In the case of N Orleans, the slavery history must also be a contributing factor. A social researcher in Australia found out that there are families who are on the dole for generations and generations. (BTW, Australia has a better social safety net than the US, though we pay higher taxes here than in US).

 

I believe not everyone wants to be in the rut forever. And of course there are always people who take advantage or rort the system. But the governments are bigger than individuals. Therefore the duty of the society or government (the bigger system) is to assist those who are unable to achieve the minimum acceptable level of income from the market system. In effect, making for a more cohesive society. This is not strictly an equity argument, as it implies the wealthy benefit when redistribution wards off revolution.

 

By emphasizing that these unfortunate Jivas are the cause of their own downfall and not Katrina nor the slowness of the government's response, the author showed his myopic view and heartlessness of the first order.

 

Hari bol

Myrla

 

I would prefer to err on the side of compassion

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Theist, etc.

 

Like Myrna said, people get caught in poverty and it is hard to rise up and become a member of the middle class. This person R Trancinski has very little understanding of the issue that he is expressing his opinions about. He may wear a suit and publish articles on the internet, but it doesn't make him an expert on the ways and means of removing poverty.

 

The main thing that helps people rise up from poverty is money. If you don't have any way of earning lots of money you will have to live in poor neighbourhood and raise your children in that neighbourhood where your kid's opportunities are very limited.

 

For most of my life I have been paying taxes in the top earnings tax bracket; I live in Australia and I pay 48% income tax. Last year I paid nearly $60,000 in tax. Even so, I can afford to send my kids to a private school and pay for trips to India each year. The reason I can afford this is quite simple. I was able to attend university and learn some skills and knowledge that makes me a "valuable commodity" within this capitalist system we are living in. I know how to wear a suit and say the right words. I know how to get people to pay me money. And guess what? I went to a private school myself when I was a kid. The way you speak and think has a lot to do with how much money you can earn. Like other private school boys I learned how to act like a winner and "play the game". Really, I think this whole game of wearing suits and making money is bull..it but I continue to play the game because I don't want my kids to live in poverty. Poor people, however, and most specially poor black or aboriginal people, are tremendously disadvantaged and the barriers stopping them from escaping poverty are extremely hard to overcome. The colour of someone's skin is something that marks them as different and it is amazing, and sickening too, that some people feel people with dark skin are somehow inferior to white people.

 

The violence and injustices in modern day society are the machinery that keeps the meat-eater politicians and the fake religious leaders in their seats of power. Mahaprabhu told the Kazi that his scriptures were "recently invented" and full of errors, when the Kazi said that his scriptures say it is OK to kill and eat cows. Bush and his cronies, including stupid John Howard from Australia, they all think they are educated, upper class Christian people; and for fun they get together and enjoy eating steaks at barbecues. Mahaprabhu said that the people who eat cows will live in hellish bodies (as ants, flies etc) for thousands of lifetimes, and the fact that they pray to Jesus on Sundays won't help them to get out of the karma that they are creating. Is Jesus going to give salvation to all the cow-killers and take them to heaven when they die? Well, you can believe that if you want but my guess is that they are going to be born as insects such as ticks that crawl around on the back of a cow or dog. People who engage in exploitation suffer the karma they create. That's how things go. And the fools who join the US Army or become servants or cheerleaders for those meat-head politicians are simply sudras. They are slaves living in ignorance. Poor people often join the army because they don't have many other options. My sympathy is with those misguided people, and not with the politicians.

 

And who is the real savage - the slave from the jungle or the slave owner?

 

-murali.

[AncientMariner 0]

You make good points but if the government is truelly going to be an authoritative entity that is responsible for everyones life and their spiritual development then the government should have the authority to outlaw alcohol, pornography, and the authority to severly punish such activity etc. Whenever the government does that the citizens go apesh*t and say they don't want the government intruding in their lives so it seems the people want it both ways. They want the government to be all knowing, and all seeing, and all protecting but they still want to be able to consume as much alcohol, beef and pornography that is humanely possible. They surely don't seem to want to accept any sort of restrictions that are recommended from a religous government.

[theist 1]

In short I agree with the mentioned article. I don't see welfare as a cure to poverty. If that isn't obvious to people by now then perhaps they have faulty vision.

 

I do support workfare and govt. work projects like the one that created Golden Gate Park. Pay people to do something productive not sit on their ass and do nothing.

 

Currently the system is set up to strip people of their self-esteem and initiative. Which is anything but a safety net in the long run.

 

Please don't preach to me about being poor. I was born poor and have always been below the so-called poverty line. I am 53 and never had health insurance in my life unti this last year when I found a county clinic that services the poor for a nominal fee. I have also been out and out homeless more than once for months at a time. Save your self-righteous preachments to me. They ring most hollow.

 

Now for an in-depth discussion on welfare could we please do it on a separate thread and not take this on off to far on a tangent?

[theist 1]

 

for calling the WTO protestors crackers. I have nothing against them personally and I am white but the whole protest scene seemed like a big hippy(not that there is anything wrong with hippies) party so like I said it seemed like people just wanted to have an excuse to party if you know what I mean so thats why I called them crackers but I apologize for being insensitive.

 

 

No AM. I wasn't very clear in my post. But what I meant to bring out is the hypocrisy of these phony white liberals and colored racists who complain when some other race is spoken of in less than flatering tones but never say anything when whites are treated the same way. Most often they even justify.

 

Cracker, honky etc. mean nothing. I use "white breads" for a certain type of white person myself.

 

In Hawaii I used to get called Haole all the time. That place is the most racist in the US I would think. At first I used to just laugh but later discovered the depth of the hatred behind it and so quit laughing similar to not laughing when a rabbid pit bull starts barking at you. The name itself never bothered me just the hatred.

 

White liberals I just refer to mostly as chumps. It is all purpose and seems most fitting.

 

Someone should open a thread on racism and the Krsna conscious solution to the problem.

 

 

 

[AncientMariner 0]

I read a Prabhupada quote where he said the government should go in and shut down the alcohol shops and meat markets, pornagraphy shops etc. Whenever the government does that people get mad Sorry if I offended but I don't see how what I said was an attack on poor people as I myself am poor and don't have health insurance. Granted there are plenty of demonic activities our government is involved in themselves so I apologize if I offended. I will drop the subject.

[theist 1]

Why the difference in response by those flooded out in Mumbai Vs. some of those in New Orleans.

 

 

Now, why the difference? I personally feel the difference is mainly because of close ties that Indian society has. Of course, the ties are getting diluted over time, but these are still present to a large extent.

 

 

These gangs in NO are already day to day engaging in violenting exploiting people, often in the most violent and despicable ways. This disaster scenario simply provided an incredible opputunity for them.

 

Many on the edge get pulled into smashing windows and property destruction that wouldn't ordinarily just by the mob mentality.

 

As I said previously the authorities themselves should actually enter these large stores and be in charge of distributing all their food and water, diapers and in some way medicenes in an orderly fashion. Taking those types of items in an emergency is not even considered looting by law. Stealing other items like TV's, liquor and guns and trashing property generally creating choas in a scene that is already a disater should not be tolerated and in a disaster scenario I believe shooting the looters and trashers is justified in keeping order. In other words martial law should be established just by the disaster itself and not after any resulting chaos has already been established. Get caught pulling a woman into an alley and raping her...then a cop should shoot you on the spot. There is simply no way to arrest, jail and prosecute someone as normal in those circumstances so the it's "stay human or die" time. IMO of course.

 

 

[theist 1]

 

I read a Prabhupada quote where he said the government should go in and shut down the alcohol shops and meat markets, pornagraphy shops etc. Whenever the government does that people get mad Sorry if I offended but I don't see how what I said was an attack on poor people as I myself am poor and don't have health insurance. Granted there are plenty of demonic activities our government is involved in themselves so I apologize if I offended. I will drop the subject.

 

 

Why apologize? You said nothing wrong nor did Srila Prabhupada. You must have noticed by now the first tactic of the PC liberal is to try and make you feel like a terrible person for holding a viewpoint counter to theirs. I am learning to ignore them dispite their shrill tones.

 

[Kulapavana 0]

"By emphasizing that these unfortunate Jivas are the cause of their own downfall and not Katrina nor the slowness of the government's response, the author showed his myopic view and heartlessness of the first order."

 

in karmic sense, BOTH individuals and authorities have very distinct responsibilities in such situations. blaming it all on unfortunate jivas alone is pretty myopic as well... kinda reminds me of that bad ol'Iskcon saying:

 

"dont blame me, I'm just an instrument of your karma"

 

/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[AncientMariner 0]

If you read the article he does address the incompetence of the NO police department and city officials. Could it be you are suffering from your own version of myopia? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

 

"What Sherri was getting from last night's television coverage was a whiff of the sense of life of "the projects." Then the "crawl"—the informational phrases flashed at the bottom of the screen on most news channels—gave some vital statistics to confirm this sense: 75% of the residents of New Orleans had already evacuated before the hurricane, and of those who remained, a large number were from the city's public housing projects. Jack Wakeland then told me that early reports from CNN and Fox indicated that the city had no plan for evacuating all of the prisoners in the city's jails—so they just let many of them loose. [update: I have been searching for news reports on this last story, but I have not been able to confirm it. Instead, I have found numerous reports about the collapse of the corrupt and incompetent New Orleans Police Department; see here and here.]

 

There is no doubt a significant overlap between these two populations--that is, a large number of people in the jails used to live in the housing projects, and vice versa.

 

There were many decent, innocent people trapped in New Orleans when the deluge hit—but they were trapped alongside large numbers of people from two groups: criminals—and wards of the welfare state, people selected, over decades, for their lack of initiative and self-induced helplessness. The welfare wards were a mass of sheep—on whom the incompetent administration of New Orleans unleashed a pack of wolves.

 

All of this is related, incidentally, to the incompetence of the city government, which failed to plan for a total evacuation of the city, despite the knowledge that this might be necessary. In a city corrupted by the welfare state, the job of city officials is to ensure the flow of handouts to welfare recipients and patronage to political supporters—not to ensure a lawful, orderly evacuation in case of emergency."

 

 

I can understand taking issue with the author saying all wards of the welfare state are in that state due to their own lack of initiative and self induced helplessness but it is clear the author is very critical of the city officials and how they let a pack of criminals loose on the innocents and were more interested in keeping their welfare state in order rather than having an evacuation plan for the jivas you say he is blaming.

 

[Guest guest]

Now that the analysis has run its course, and everyone knows where we each stand on a myriad of issues, the real topic is "The wise lament neither the living nor the dead". The real topic is that this movie about NO is getting old, now we have to watch a funeral for one who's been dead for years. And the NO saints are playing in NYC.

 

Deceit is a good tool to control the mobs. We see folks saying "now is not the time to place blame", and then spend the rest of their allotted time blaming others and covering their own incompetencies. The fact is, bush, gov, mayor, DoD, homeland security, FEMA, you are all a bunch of puffed up ants thinking you can protect anyone. Im waiting for a simple statement from anyone "I was overwhelmed." That is the truth speaker, no one else. The reason I hate bush so much is because of the Norman Vincent Peale false christian positive thinking that makes him say "we will fix it, everything will be OK because the US is the greatest nation on the earth". I really hate when he says "God bless Amerikkka", because God already has, in the form of DEATH. NO is gone. 1,500,000 refugees infected with hepititus and other deadly blood bourne pathogens (e-coli, flesh eating viruses, tuberculosis, etc) are sent around the country to infect the whole place.

 

We dont need positive thinking here, we need reality thinking. Not that black gangs are gonna shoot us, because the bullet with our name on it has been fired from time immemorial. Not that there will be no one to save us when the volcano, earthquake, tsunami, lahar, flood, ice storm, etc hits, because no one has the power. Narada told Yudhisthira, who was honest, that he cannot protect anyone because he, himself, is in the jaws of a serpant.

 

Whos to blame? God, thats who, and he accepts the blame. Even Oppenheimer knew this, seeing the a-bomb at Alamagordo NM, he chanted, "I am all-consuming Death, O Arjuna."

 

So, the victim here is not in the movie about NO with the disease, the keystone cops of FEMA and other fools. The victim is me, and I am the one dying. And Srila Prabhupada, after describing to devotees about the inevitability of whole-scale thermo nuclear war, answered the worried questions from his disciples "what to do, what to do?" The answer is "Chant Hare Krsna, and your life will be sublime". No other comments have any value, especially this positive thinking . by the gross materialists and power mongers who think they will make everything peachy again. Go back to your funeral, then go on vacation, the garbage came when you pretended to be real.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[AncientMariner 0]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. An ounce of honesty from people goes along ways especially if someone said something honest like "I was overwhelmed." That kind of honesty would be rare but is the truth of the situation for all of us in material nature that we are overwhelmed and it seems admitting this is the beginning of a persons journey in Krsna Consciousness despite how good or bad a person is.

[Kulapavana 0]

"If you read the article he does address the incompetence of the NO police department and city officials. Could it be you are suffering from your own version of myopia?"

 

and if you paid attention, you would have noticed I made my comment to Myrla, and not the author of the article...

 

[AncientMariner 0]

Oh I see what you were saying now. My apologies, you are acknowledging BOTH have a responsibility. I can understand disagreeing with the article but I didn't think it was fair of her to say the author was blaming unfortunate jivas and being heartless when the article was about how welfare policy (which seems to indicate the author is blaming public policy rather than individual jivas) created a brutal mentality and NO city officials have been more engaged in trying to be reelected by their welfare wards rather than having an effective evacuation plan as apparently they have known for a long time poor people would be stranded in the event of such a hurricane. When I originally read your statement I thought you were agreeing with her, shows you I am truely the one who is guilty of myopia. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif My apologies again as this 3rd grade education really does hold me back sometimes. /images/graemlins/smile.gif I am a little slow and a little retarded but if given enough time I usually can figure it out.

[Guest guest]

The king is responsible for protecting the citizens. The citizens work hard, pay taxes, for this protection.

 

So, the leader of this country hides his head in the sand, having his minions make propaganda about who did not live up to responsibility. But the responsibility is his alone. As truman noted, "the buck stops here", pointing to the oval office. The incompetency is rampant at the very top, it is not unreasonable to state that the other losses of competence below the king is also the responsibility of the king.

 

The vedic version, states that the earth planet can take just about any burden, but cannot take lies. Untruthfulness is the greatest sin, and truth is a pillar held up by refraining from gambling and mental specualtion. The US has made gambling an economic source, so it is no wonder that the leaders are all liars. Again, the reason we look to the king is because the buck stops there. This king of the fascists lies everytime he moves his mouth. The only truth he has said in the last year was during a cabinet meeting about the mother of the dead GI who wanted to meet with him. In his usual drunken tirade, he screamed, "I am the God damned president". This is the truth, I fully support his veiws about God damning this fool. He lies about when he heard of the failing levees, he lies about when the Gov asked for federal overview. He lies about what qualifications the head of FEMA has other than his connection to Halleburton. He lies that race and social status played no role in his responsibility to protect the citizens (note, he allotted jeb 17 billion for the same hurricane which was a level 2 in FLA, while he allotted 10 billion initially for the gulf states of mississippi and louisiana for the same storm which had become 30 times worse when it left Fla).

 

Oh, by the way, theist, better load up, because SF is not bushies favorite place with the fags and all.

 

mahak

[Guest guest]

Compared to Europe America is not a welfare state. In Europe the wealthy countries guarantee a minimum income for everyone regardless of who they are without qualifications. In America you have to qualify for welfare by being either disabled or your income is not enough to take care of your children. Even then there is a five year limit and states can lower that limit, at least half do so.

 

 

In 1992, Bill Clinton was elected president promising to "end welfare as we know it," and in 1994 a Republican Congress was elected that was determined to change the existing system. On August 22, 1996, Clinton signed the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act, which ended the welfare entitlement and replaced it with a new block grant providing $16.5 billion per year to states to assist the needy.

 

The new program, called Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF), differed from its predecessor in a number of important ways, including:

 

Eliminating the Welfare Entitlement: Recipients are no longer guaranteed welfare benefits based on eligibility. The 1996 law also eliminated a child care guarantee for welfare recipients, but provided increased funding ($13.9 billion over six years) for child care through a newly created Child Care and Community Development Block Grant. The 1996 law did not affect Medicaid or food stamp eligibility, though critics contend that links between these programs have resulted in numerous recipients being denied Medicaid and food stamp assistance.

 

Establishing Work Requirements: TANF requires recipients to be working within two years of receiving benefits. This general mandate is reinforced by rules requiring states to reach fixed and rising work participation thresholds. By 2002, 50 percent of families receiving assistance in every state must be engaged in work-related activities.

 

Establishing a Five Year Lifetime Limit on Assistance: To address long-term welfare dependency, TANF placed a five year lifetime limit on assistance, but allowed states to exempt up to 20 percent of such cases for hardship reasons. States are allowed to reduce this lifetime limit below 5 years, and almost half of the states have done so.

 

 

This was written in 1997, things have gotten more lopsided today as corporate welfare has increased dramatically under Duhbya and personal welfare has fallen as required by the above laws.

 

 

The Real Welfare Cheats: Corporate America

By Randolph T. Holhut

 

For all the wrangling over the Federal budget in Washington, there's a little known truth that isn't readily acknowledged by the politicians or the media: the largest and most expensive group of welfare recipients in America are not poor women and children; it's America's corporations and the wealthy.

 

The total amount of federal money spent on Aid to Families with Dependent Children, food stamps and Medicaid comes to about $85 billion annually. The total cost of the corporate tax breaks and subsidies is hundreds of billions of dollars.

 

In the 1980s, the U.S. tax code was rewritten to drastically reduce corporate income taxes. In the 1950s and '60s, corporate taxes provided 25 percent of all federal government revenues. By 1991, that figure was only seven percent. The theory behind the tax cuts was that corporations would take the money they saved in taxes and invest it back into their businesses. It rarely if ever happened.

 

In 1989, Citizens for Tax Justice surveyed 44 major American companies. All 44 paid no federal taxes; this despite a collective total profit of $53.6 billion. All had reduced their capital spending and reduced their work forces. The extra money instead went for higher stock dividends, higher pay for CEOs (an average pay hike of 54 percent) and to pay for corporate mergers and acquisitions. That pattern continues today.

 

Tax breaks are the biggest source of corporate welfare. The House Progressive Caucus, a group of mostly Democratic members of Congress, recently presented a bill entitled``The Corporate Responsibility Act'' that calls for the elimination of $800 billion in tax subsidies and other benefits for corporations and the rich.

 

..Instead of picking on the poor and slashing social welfare programs, Congress should be asking why corporations should continue to get hundreds of billions of dollars of tax breaks and government subsidies..

 

The legislation would end tax-exempt status for American companies that relocate in free trade zones in the Caribbean and Central America. Firms that take advantage of this receive a 100 percent exemption from all corporate income tax, all import and export duties and all dividend and equity taxes. Ending this tax break would save $200 billion over seven years.

 

Joel Bliefuss, writing in the Nov. 13, 1995 issue of In These Times, stated that the legislation would also include these cuts:

 

--Ending the credit granted multinational corporations for taxes they pay in foreign countries ($114 billion saved).

--Capping the home mortgage deduction at $300,000 ($47 billion).

--Taxing capital gains at the same rate as other earned income ($63 billion).

--Phasing out all government grants for the development of fossil fuels and nuclear energy ($3.2 billion).

--Ending direct and indirect subsidies for foreign purchases of U.S. defense firm products ($3.5 billion).

--Ending taxpayer subsidies of U.S. produce purchased by foreign consumers and advertising subsidies for U.S. companies that market their products overseas ($6.5 billion).

 

Add these numbers up and you can see who the real welfare cheats are. It's the people who can pay for the lobbyists to influence legislation and are able to deduct it off their taxes; who have benefited from policies that have eliminated millions of American jobs; who have put the pursuit of ever-higher profits ahead of the public interest.

 

Instead of picking on the poor and slashing social welfare programs, Congress should be asking why corporations should continue to get hundreds of billions of dollars of tax breaks and government subsidies.

 

Unfortunately, that is not likely to happen. The 104th Congress has been the most corporate-friendly in history. Corporate PAC money is flowing into the pockets of Congressmen in unprecedented amounts to help preserve what Ralph Nader calls AFDC _ Aid to Dependent Corporations.

 

The House Progressive Caucus' plan has little support in the Republican-controlled Congress and has gotten virtually no coverage in the national press. Until the American people learn the extent of corporate welfare and how much it is costing them, the real welfare cheats will get a free ride while the poor will continue to be scapegoated.

 

 

 

 

 

For more articles on corporate welfare see:

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Corporate_Welfare/Corporate_Welfare.html

 

If we want to see the effect of a welfare state versus no or minimal welfare we can look at the difference between India and western countries that have welfare.

 

 

According to a report based on the consultation `Space for the Homeless and Marginalised in Delhi', organised by Action Aid India and the Slum and Resettlement Wing of the MCD in July 2003, the total homeless population in India is 78 million (based on the 2001 Census).

 

Even the Delhi Development Authority (DDA) admits that at least 1 per cent of the population in Delhi is homeless. This means that no fewer than 140,000 people live on the streets of Delhi. This figure does not include those who sleep in carts or rickshaws or under flimsy plastic-sheet roofs.

 

Lalit Batra of the Hazard Centre, an NGO working for housing rights, said: "At least one lakh jhuggis (slums) have been demolished since 2000. In Yamuna-Pushta alone, we estimate that around 50,000 people have been rendered homeless. Only 30,000 were rehabilitated."

 

The agenda report of a Conference of Ministers of Housing, from the States and Union Territories, organised by the Ministry of Urban Development and Poverty Alleviation, states: "It is the ultimate goal of the National Policy on Housing and Habitat, 1998, to provide the basic need of shelter for all, but until such objective is achieved, it is necessary to provide some kind of shelter to the absolutely shelterless urban poor, particularly street children, destitute women and migrant labourers, etc."

 

The scheme for providing night shelters for the urban homeless was introduced in 1988-89. According to the government, the scheme was supposed to progress as per demand. This means that the States would put forward proposals, which would then be sanctioned by Housing and Urban Development Corporation Ltd. (HUDCO). By July 2004, HUDCO had sanctioned 99 night shelters across India. Of these, 40 were in Maharashtra.

 

The National Slum Development Programme sanctioned Rs.14,053 lakhs to Delhi between 2000-04. The entire amount has been listed as `unspent balance'.

 

Palika Ashray Grih was a shelter that catered to women and was run by the AAA. But the New Delhi Municipal Corporation (NDMC) took it away just before the onset of winter, rendering the inhabitants homeless again.

 

Miloon Kothari, Special Rapporteur on Adequate Housing, United Nations Commission on Human Rights, agrees that the government has no definite policy on housing in Delhi. "Historically, we have a grave crisis of housing. Every time the municipality demolishes slums, the vast majority are rendered homeless. We believe this is a violation of human rights. During the recent brutal eviction of women from the Palika Hostel, there were several human rights violations," Miloon Kothari said.

 

The Palika Hostel was the first initiative by the NDMC towards a women's shelter. On October 16, the women and children were forcibly evicted. Many of them sustained injuries during the procedure. The women set up tents outside the building and continue to sit there on a hunger strike.

 

On November 5, NDMC officials pulled out the tent poles when the women and children were sleeping inside. The AAA team intervened and has since met Chief Minister Sheila Dixit. The AAA has sent telegrams to the Prime Minister's Office, contacted the National Commission for Women and complained to the National Human Rights Commission (NHRC). The NDMC and the Chief Minister's Office directed that the women be shifted to Nirmal Chhaya, a home for destitute women. But the women refused to move because the complex is often mistaken for a detention centre and is in common parlance called the `women's prison', being situated next to Tihar Jail. Besides, it is a short-stay home, and has no provision for housing women over 45 years of age.

 

Officialdom does not seem to be geared to finding a solution to the problem of homelessness.

 

Said Nisha Agarwal of the Slum and Juvenile Justice wing of the MCD: "We have 24 children's homes. The primary job is to look for the street children's original homes and families. They are brought to us through the police, concerned citizens and NGOs and so on. Night shelters are not our mandate. That is the MCD's baby."

 

She added that night shelters were part of the poverty alleviation scheme of the government. "There are 17 or 18 night shelters. They open another 17 or so during winter. Last year we helped the MCD cope with the severe winter. We helped monitor the shelters but we don't really have the budgets or the staff."

 

Madan Thapaliyal, of the NDMC said: "We are not equipped to run shelters for the homeless population. We don't have the infrastructure to cope. From December 15 onwards, we will give some extra night shelters. We make arrangements on the requirement of the Central government. The responsibility belongs to the State's Welfare Department."

 

Jitendra Narain, Director of the Department of Social Welfare, explains that in a letter to U.K. Vohra, Secretary, NDMC, he had mentioned that though Nirmal Chhaya was available to the former residents of the Palika Hostel, the timing of the proposal to shift them was incorrect, with the winter being round the corner.

 

Rashmi Singh, Joint Director in the Department of Social Welfare, said the right place to go and ask questions was the Urban Development Ministry. "We will not shrug off responsibility, because anything to do with social welfare is our business. The Census doesn't even give us the right figures. The Secretary of this department had estimated 10,000 homeless people for Delhi. Yet, there is no formal survey."

 

She clarified that the problem had to be tackled through a collective effort. "The MCD has 17 night shelters and seven converted community centres, during winter. The Development Commissioner's office sets up temporary camps. We have one short-stay home for women, Nirmal Chhaya. The Young Women's Christian Association has some facilities and there's Bapno Ghar for women. The NDMC has old-age homes. Some NGOs are supported by us round the year. But we cannot usurp the government's role and mandate for urban homelessness. The Urban Development Ministry is the nodal body."

 

Miloon Kothari believes that although "nobody takes responsibility for the poor, from a legal perspective, according to the NDMC Act of 1994, the NDMC is responsible. Any municipality of the world has to take up the responsibility."

 

According to Paramjeet Kaur, a solution was not hard to find. "The State government needs to open up spaces. The NDMC has only one shelter at Nizamuddin. You can't bar certain zones. Delhi has the infrastructure. We only need to make multipurpose use of existing government buildings. Spaces over parking lots are available. Community centre buildings and Baarat Ghars can be used. We have shown the MCD and the NDMC that this isn't a wasteful venture. After years, the MCD actually made a profit in the year when we ran five community centres as night shelters."

 

 

 

The United Nations Special Rapporteur on adequate housing has criticised India for demolishing slums in Mumbai and New Delhi in his report submitted at the ongoing 61st session of the UN Commission on Human Rights in Geneva, Switzerland.

 

Miloon Kothari presented an overall situation of slums across the world. In his report, he specially mentioned the poor condition of slums and people living in shanty towns in India, and said it a 'matter of concern'.

 

Countries and voluntary groups from across the world are debating human rights issues during the session. Adequate housing is considered part of the human rights of citizens.

 

Kothari stated that in Mumbai 80,000 homes were demolished between December 2004 and January 2005, rendering 300,000 people homeless. For majority of those evicted there was no advance notice, the evictions were violently carried out and their belongings damaged. Those evicted were not even offered alternative accommodation.

 

He said, "The chief minister (Vilasrao Deshmukh) explained these brutal demolitions as the only way to create a world-class city."

 

Coming down heavily on the Indian legal system, the special rapporteur noted with concern the impact of laws that directly or indirectly criminalised homelessness.

 

According to the UN, in India, 40 per cent of the total urban population is classified as poor. Children and families of the urban poor often live in slums and squatter communities under intolerable and subhuman conditions.

 

Millions of urban and rural dwellers around the world live in fear of eviction. The impact of eviction on children and women are particularly devastating.

 

 

It's perfectly alright for Rush Limbaugh and his acolytes to mouth banal cold hearted propaganda from the heart of the corporate beast about the evil "welfare state", but I doubt the millions upon millions of homeless children, the elderly, and disabled listen to them or care about their shallow cruel viewpoints. The real crime is not welfare, the real crime is the wealthy abusing their position which leads to poverty and homelessness for billions of people around the world. The following statistics are from the early 1990's, the disparity has grown worse since then.

 

 

Of the world’s 6 billion people, more than 1.2 billion live on less than $1 a day. Two billion more people are only marginally better off. About 60 percent of the people living on less than $1 a day live in South Asia and Sub-Saharan Africa.

 

The world's 3 richest people have wealth greater than the combined Gross Domestic Product (the value of all goods and services) of the world's 48 poorest nations.

 

 

 

[AncientMariner 0]

America is rapidly becoming a hell hole and there is probably a pretty good chance something else will happen that will make it even worse. I read in the Vedic literature that Prabhupada wrote that the citizens in the Kali-yuga are spiritually and materially lazy so Krishna gives them leaders that cheat them. Basically people want to get cheated so Krishna gives them leaders that cheat them. Based on that reading the citizens do appear to have some accountability in the process. I have also read Prabhupada quotes where he blames everything on the leadership so which one is it, I really don't know. Either way our leaders are cheaters no doubt, sometimes I defend Bush because I think the Liberals are trying to pull an animal farm and take over and end up being the same or worse than what they replaced but we can agree that Bush is a pretty idiotic leader just based on the fact that he hosts barbeques. Clinton hosted sex parties under his desk so there really isn't much too choose from when it comes to leadership and I'm not the Kalki avatar so I'd appreciate it if you would cut me some slack as this world appears to truelly be a no win situation.

[Guest guest]

ya drive em outa home and shoot their derrrieres

kill em with minimal force.

[Guest guest]

AM: "but we can agree that Bush is a pretty idiotic leader just based on the fact that he hosts barbeques. "

 

mahak addendum: "For the taliban yet, if thats not enough for good republican conservatives to rise up and impeach this liar, there is no hope".

[theist 1]

 

 

 

 

 

 

CNN just reported that the day before Katrina came ashore Amtrac offered a special 900 seat train to evacuate residents. The mayor's office turned them down even though the train was actually there in NO already.

 

Add to that the 800 school buses that should have been used to evacuate the poor that were left parked, empty and eventually flooded, and it becomes obvious why people were left on rooftops.

 

 

Monday, Sept. 12, 2005 10:34 a.m. EDT

Amtrak, Nagin Argue Over Rescue Train

 

Officials at Amtrak say they offered to run a special train out of New Orleans that could have evacuated hundreds [900] of residents hours before Hurricane Katrina struck - but city officials turned the offer down.

 

"We offered the city the opportunity to take evacuees out of harm's way," Amtrak spokesman Cliff Black told the Washington Post on Sunday. "The city declined."

 

 

The train had room for "several hundred passengers,"[900] the Post said. But it left loaded only with railroad equipment - destined for higher and drier ground.

New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin said Sunday he had no idea what Black was talking about.

 

I don't know where that's coming from," he told NBC's "Meet the Press.Amtrak never contacted me to make that offer. As a matter of fact, we checked the Amtrak lines for availability, and every available train was booked, as far as the report that I got, through September. So I'd like to see that report."

 

Nagin also offered a new explanation as to why he didn't press hundreds[800] of city buses into service to aid in evacuation efforts.

 

"Sure, here was lots of buses out there," he told "Meet the Press.But guess what? You can't find drivers that would stay behind with a Category 5 hurricane, you know, pending down on New Orleans. We barely got enough drivers to move people on Sunday, or Saturday and Sunday, to move them to the Superdome."

 

The New Orleans Democrat had a different excuse tens days ago, when asked about using his city's bus fleet.

 

"One of the briefings we had they were talking about getting, you know, public school bus drivers to come down here and bus people out of here," he told WWL Radio.

 

"I'm like - you've got to be kidding me. This is a natural disaster. Get every doggone Greyhound bus line in the country and get their asses moving to New Orleans."

 

Asked about the buses two days before his "Meet the Press" interview, Nagin told NBC's "Dateline": "I dont know. That is question for somebody else."

 

Here is your liar.