Looters rampage - shoot 'em

[theist 1]

This ain't much of a civilization anyway in very many ways But these rampaging blacks are dragging it even farther down.

-----------

 

New Orleans Evacuates; Troops Deployed To Stop Armed Looters

09.01.2005 8:53 AM EDT

 

'The city will not be functional for two or three months,' Mayor C. Ray Nagin said.

Louisiana State Police in New Orleans on Wednesday

Photo: James Nielsen/Getty Images

 

As officials began a full evacuation of New Orleans that could leave the city a ghost town for months, chaos continued on the streets. Armed gangs of looters terrorized the city, crashing into a pharmacy using a forklift, grabbing food, clothes, guns and electronic equipment from ruined shops, committing carjackings and stealing medical supplies from hospitals.

 

The government deployed thousands of troops on Wednesday to stem the tide of lawlessness, and 1,500 New Orleans police officers — nearly the entire force — assigned to search and rescue duties were redeployed Wednesday to help bring order to the city's streets, where gunfire could be heard throughout the day.

 

In an uptown New Orleans neighborhood, managers of a nursing home had gathered enough food for 10 days, according to a report by The Associated Press, but then looters arrived. "Now we'll have to equip our department heads with guns and teach them how to shoot," executive director Peggy Hoffman said Wednesday as the home's residents were being evacuated.

 

At the flooded Charity Hospital, armed looters forced doctors to give up narcotics, and at area Wal-Marts, thieves cleared the shelves of guns and ammunition. One man was forced to give up his car to a machete-wielding assailant.

 

"They are starting to get closer to heavily populated areas — hotels, hospitals — and we're going to stop it right now," New Orleans Mayor C. Ray Nagin said, according to a Los Angeles Times report. One gang of looters attacked a state police truck carrying food, and there were even reports of city officials taking computer equipment from a Home Depot.

 

"It started with people running out of food, and you can't really argue with that too much," the mayor said. "Then it escalated to this kind of mass chaos where people are taking electronic stuff and all that."

 

In addition to the lawlessness, Justice Department officials said Wednesday that they were working with local authorities to investigate cases of price gouging on gasoline and water in New Orleans and other affected areas, where some stations were posting prices approaching $6 a gallon for gas.

 

Mayor Nagin ordered the forced evacuation as the flood waters that have swamped more than 90 percent of the city's homes slowly began to level off — and in some cases, recede, unveiling total devastation in their wake. "The city will not be functional for two or three months," Nagin said, adding that he feared the death toll may be in the hundreds, if not thousands (see "Katrina Devastates New Orleans; Mississippi Death Toll Rises To Over 110").

 

With no water (to drink, operate toilets or fight fires), no power and little cell phone service, New Orleans officials rushed to get people out of town, fearing that the heat and unsanitary conditions could raise the death toll further. By day's end, authorities had gathered a fleet of about 550 government boats to ferry stranded residents to high ground, according to a Chicago Tribune report.

 

The 25,000 refugees left homeless by the storm began a long journey on more than 450 buses late Wednesday from the Superdome in New Orleans to the Astrodome in Houston, where refugees will have running water, showers and air conditioning for the first time in days. Those who couldn't get onto the buses began walking the 350 mile route in the hope that there will be room for them in Houston. Others slept on shattered Interstate 10 as they waited for buses to shuttle them to Texas or northern Louisiana.

 

In a sign of the continuing chaos of the storm's aftermath, the first bus to arrive at the Astrodome late Wednesday was a "renegade" shuttle that was not part of the official convoy and which was initially turned away. For a time Thursday morning (September 1), convoys were stopped as shots were fired at an Army helicopter being used to aid evacuation at the Superdome, according to a CNN report.

 

Army Corps of Engineers officials said that it would be weeks or months before the city was pumped dry and it could take years to rebuild the thousands of homes and businesses, as well as streets, highways and other critical infrastructure. The paradox, experts told The New York Times, was that the destruction of the below-sea-level city could provide an opportunity to rebuild it and make it safer from the water that has always threatened it, with more secure buildings and levees capable of withstanding the strongest storms.

 

Four Navy ships were dispatched to the region on Wednesday with drinking water and emergency medical supplies. The Defense Department ordered 11,000 National Guard troops to help with law enforcement, cleanup and communications, adding to the 18,000 troops already on the ground in the area.

 

And, according to the Los Angeles Times, the Pentagon authorized Admiral Timothy Keating, head of the Northern Command, to plan for possibly deploying active-duty troops — which can only be ordered by the president under the rarely used Insurrection Act. The 30,000 National Guard troops already deployed represent the largest domestic relief effort by the military in the country's history, according to The New York Times.

 

To find out what you can do to help provide relief to victims of Katrina, head to think MTV's hurricane relief page.

 

— Gil Kaufman

 

 

[Guest guest]

Do you think they are the only people capable of doing wrong?

 

Don't be naive. Snakes are everywhere, even among people who claim to be God-loving.

 

Please apply your spiritual knowledge to your everyday life!!! W

[Guest guest]

Probably most of us would turn to looting under such horrific circumstances. Not that I approve it. But maybe the looters are thinking that the food, TVs, computers, and whatever else they can get will be lost anyway. And maybe they are broke and figure why waste valuable merchandise that may go to waste. Now, looting hospitals for narcotics is another matter. That's going too far.

 

But think about it. How many of us, given those same circumstances, stranded in a catastrophe zone, wouldn't lower ourselves to looting, if it were a matter of survival. In India, I've read that it's fairly common for even the police to loot when tragedies occur. (Lifting wallets and jewelry off of dead people, etc.)

 

Just being honest. Most of us don't think of ourselves as thieves. But deep down, we are. Hey, we've stolen these bodies from Krsna to use for our sense enjoyment, haven't we? We steal "time" which has been given as a gift from Krsna, and we often use it to watch TV, go to movies, do almost anything but spend it in Krsna's service 24/7.

 

No, let's not shoot the looters. Let's shoot our judgemental holier-than-thou mentalities which causes us to feel that these looters amidst a horrific tragedy should be shot.

 

^^^

[Guest guest]

Survivo0rs are not looters, the folks raiding walmart for supplies should be allowed to take what they need.

 

Those raiding the liquor and the guns, these folks are the criminal element, but we must seoparate. The decision to abandon the rescue effort to go after the looters is demoniac, because there is no value in what they steal. The shops are covered by insurance, and the foodstuff will rot if not eaten. m mahak

[Guest guest]

It looks like the whites got the hell out before it was too late, many of the black people were left behind to suffer...I wonder why...OH yeh I forgot, we live in the United States!

 

-Amit

[theist 1]

First it is correct that one has to separte those looting under different motives.

 

In fact it is not against the law in an emergency situation to break into a store for food and water. That is only common sense and one doing so is protected by law. I would think the police should be the ones to knock down the doors and pass out all the water and food the stores held so it could be put to use and in an orderly manner.

 

But carting away boomboxes and big screen TV's is another thing. And that is what has been happening. They also broke into walmart and stole guns and ammo. They did the same by ransacking pawn shops. One cop was shot trying to stop them. A National Guardsman was also shot. They have been raping woman and robbing freely especially tourists. One hospital that was trying to evacuate their most severly ill was held under sniper fire when they tried to get the sick onto medivac helipcopters. The finally had to take them of the roof. Helicopters flying in to help have come under fire. They have to run the hospitals under armed guard. The engineers who are trying to plug the levies with sandbags to stop the flooding waters can't work at night because of the violence and can't go out with less then three men to a vehicle because of the armed thugs. Pharmacies have been held by armed thugs. These aren't people who are after insulin to keep grandma alive.

 

I feel the same about the whoever jacked the gas prices up to $6 a gallon. That is another form of looting. During times like these prices should be frozen by the state.

 

Reminds me of a conversation with Srila Prabhupada and some of his students in India from the early 70's. The great food shortages in India especially Bangladesh. Ships of rice was help up on the docks to create even more of a shortage thus raising the price even further. Srila Prabhupada said Indira Gandhi should take a few of the responsible people and publically hang them while distributing all the rice free to the poor and that would be a message to any others.

 

Of course the bungling on part of the goverment in terms of relief is inexcusable. There are thousands of innocents trapped in that chaos and they can't even airlift them some friggin' water after three days???

 

The mayor of NO, whoever he or she is, is obviously a braindead fool of some sort. They fill up the domed stadium when tens of thousands of people and don't even provide security.

 

This thing is a tradgedy on so many levels.

 

And as far as the black thing goes NO is 70% black to begin with. But beyond that you can't deny with any credence that American black culture is in very bad shape and very violent. But that is another discussion and one someone tried to raise on andother thread but no one responded.

[Guest guest]

Who are you to critisize the conditions of blacks in America today? Take a history lesson, the so called great founding fathers of this nation believed in slavery. In fact America was founded on the backs of millions of slaves, and even worse, on the vast genocide of the native americans who were specifically designated for extermination by the Untied States Government (and the Spanish before them). The racist agenda and mindset of this country comes from generations of hatred and white supremacy that is thinly disguised in this day and age. I may be getting a little off topic here but one thing that I really dont understand is American patriotism. I have been born and raised in the United States but I could never be a "patriot" of this country, its whole history is filled with shame. The only legacy I think we should have as Americans is a shared sympathy for those who have suffered at the hands of bigotry and imperialism.

 

 

Jai Sri Krishna

-Amit

[theist 1]

History shows slavery in vedic times as well. Do we need to bring up how the sudras and harijans have been treated in India? Anyway if you have a better place to go you know where the door is. And yeah you are getting off topic.

 

BTW my great grandfather was 100% American Indian. That probably means something to your PC mind although it means nothing to me.

[Guest guest]

Blacks, blacks, blacks, good for nothing. If you say that many times, there would come a point when the blacks would believe that. And that is a psychological truth.

 

These stereotyping, is contrary to what you are preaching, theist. We are all jivas. The jivas though maybe covered with different coloured bodies are capable of understanding the highest goal in life -- to do the highest good.

 

I would expect that you having read so many scriptures would be on the level of goodness and not throw despise at the first instance based on the colour of the body.

 

I am in a brown body and I have experienced them all, though maybe in a small degree. But luckily, I was born into this body where I am not embarass of my appearance, where I have some material intelligence, some reasonable material resources, and most of all by the mercy of Srila Prabhupad and the all compassionate Lord cHaitanya, I have some spiritual intelligence to be able to see that I have to apply my spiritual knowledge to my everyday life.

 

Real spiritual knowledge is living it.

 

Hare Krishna

Myrla Ocfemia

 

(this would be the end of my response to this thread,( the 2nd response was mine ). As it is, I am busy with my own family with 2 children, running the household, working, japa chanting, offering food at my altar and answering assignments for my Nectar of Devotion study group).

 

 

[theist 1]

Once you get past the self-righteous mental high of calling others racist maybe you would like to address the points of this thread.

 

I know my cue was to go into the typical white guilt mindset and try to convince everybody that I am not a racist and am really a good person at heart but that is just not me. I in fact am not a racist nor a good person at heart. You can think what you like.

[Guest guest]

He say "blacks", he say "shoot em", he say "puleeeze", he say "yawn", amidst debris.

He proffa no apologee, da misundahstandin musta bin wit we.

He wear no shoeshine he got toe-jam football

He got monkey finger he shoot coca-cola

He say "I know you, you know me

One thing I can tell you is you got to be free

Come together right now over me."

 

^^^

[Kulapavana 0]

most crime is born of opportunity. there is no law so some people take advantage of it. black or white - it does not matter much. 90% of people left in New Orleans are black. There are many gangs there too. And something else to consider: here in NC after the floods there is never any looting (and there is plenty of blacks here), at least partially because everybody has guns and knows how to use them. white or black trailer trash does not go looting because they know they will be shot. low culture people respond to fear very well.

[theist 1]

These are the same gangs that day to sell the crack, do the car jackings etc. Now they absolutely free reign to terrorize. Terrorism is not just something foreigners can bring upon a nation. Many of those same black people are the same black people that are held as hostages in their neighborhoods and terrorized everyday. They are afraid to let their children walk a few blocks to school. They should have been shot along time ago.

 

Just this morning it appears help is arriving as convoys of trucks role into NO. Well those trucks should have been loaded before Katrina hit land just from all the warning they were telling people.

 

I understand National Guard snipers are now positioned on rooftops at least. I hope that is true.

[theist 1]

 

Explosions blur New Orleans skyline

 

Allen G Breed in New Orleans | September 02, 2005 18:52 IST

 

 

An explosion jolted residents awake early on Friday, illuminating the pre-dawn sky with red and orange flames over New Orleans where corpses rotted along flooded sidewalks and bands of armed thugs thwarted fitful rescue efforts.

 

While Congress was rushing through a $10.5 billion aid package, the Pentagon promised 1,400 National Guardsmen a day to stop the looting and President Bush planned to visit the region on Friday.

 

But city officials were seething with anger about what they called a slow federal response following Hurricane Katrina.

 

"They don't have a clue what's going on down there," Mayor Ray Nagin told WWL-AM Thursday night.

 

"They flew down here one time two days after the doggone event was over with TV cameras, AP reporters, all kind

of goddamn, excuse my French everybody in America, but I am pissed."

 

No water, food in Katrina-hit areas

At 4:35 am Friday, an explosion rocked a chemical storage facility near the Mississippi River east of the French Quarter, said Lietenant Michael Francis of the Harbour Police. A series of smaller blasts followed and then acrid, black smoke that could be seen even in the dark.

 

The vibrations were felt all the way downtown.

 

Francis did not have any other information about the explosions and did not know if there were any casualties. At least two police boats could be seen at the scene and a hazardous material team was on route.

 

It was the opening strike in yet another day of sadly deteriorating conditions since Katrina slammed ashore Monday morning.

 

Thursday saw thousands being evacuated by bus to Houston from the hot and stinking Superdome. Fistfights and fires erupted amid a seething sea of tense, suffering people who waited in a lines that stretched a half-mile to board yellow school buses. The looting continued.

 

Governor Kathleen Blanco called the looters 'hoodlums' and issued a warning to lawbreakers: hundreds of National

Guard troops hardened on the battlefield in Iraq have landed in New Orleans.

 

"They have M-16s and they're locked and loaded," she said. "These troops know how to shoot and kill, they

are more than willing to do so and I expect they will."

 

At the Superdome, a group of refugees broke through a line of heavily armed National Guardsmen in a scramble to get

on to the buses.

 

Nearby, about 15,000 to 20,000 people who had taken shelter at New Orleans Convention Center grew ever more

hostile after waiting for buses for days amid the filth and the dead.

 

Police Chief Eddie Compass said there was such a crush around a squad of 88 officers that they retreated when

they went in to check out reports of assaults.

 

"We have individuals who are getting raped, we have individuals who are getting beaten," Compass said. "Tourists are walking in that direction and they are getting preyed upon."

 

By Thursday evening, 11 hours after the military began evacuating the Superdome, the arena held 10,000 more

people than it did at dawn. Evacuees from across the city swelled the crowd to about 30,000 because they believed the arena was the best place to get a ride out of town.

 

Some of those among the mostly poor crowd had been in the dome for four days without air conditioning, working

toilets or a place to bathe. One military policeman was shot in the leg as he and a man scuffled for the former's rifle. The man was arrested.

 

By late Thursday, the flow of refugees to the Houston Astrodome was temporarily halted with a population of

11,325, less than half the estimated 23,000 people expected.

 

Texas Governor Rick Perry announced that Dallas would host 25,000 more refugees at Reunion Arena and 25,000 others would relocate to a San Antonio warehouse at KellyUSA, a city-owned complex that once was home to an Air Force base. Houston estimated as many as 55,000 people who fled the hurricane were staying in area hotels.

 

While floodwaters in New Orleans appeared to stabilize, efforts continued to plug three breaches that had opened

up in the levee system that was designed to protect this below-sea-level city.

 

Helicopters dropped sandbags into the breach and pilings were being pounded into the mouth of the canal Thursday

to close its connection to Lake Pontchartrain.

 

At least seven bodies were scattered outside the convention center, a makeshift staging area for those rescued from rooftops, attics and highways. The sidewalks were packed with people without food, water or medical care, and with no sign of law enforcement.

 

A military helicopter tried to land at the convention center several times to drop off food and water. But the rushing crowd forced the choppers to back off. Troopers then tossed the supplies to the crowd from 10 feet off the ground and flew away.

 

"There's a lot of very sick people - elderly ones, infirm ones - who can't stand this heat, and there's a lot of children who don't have water and basic necessities to survive on," said Daniel Edwards, 47, outside the center. "We need to eat, or drink water at the very least."

 

An old man in a chaise lounge lay dead in a grassy median as hungry babies wailed around him. Around the corner, an elderly woman lay dead in her wheelchair, covered up by a blanket, and another body lay beside her wrapped in a sheet.

 

"I don't treat my dog like that," Edwards said as he pointed at the woman in the wheelchair. "You can do everything for other countries, but you can't do nothing for your own people."

 

Federal Emergency Management Agency director Michael Brown said the agency just learned about the situation at the convention center Thursday and quickly scrambled to provide food, water and medical care and remove the corpses.

 

The slow response frustrated Nagin: "I have no idea what they're doing but I will tell you this - God is looking down on all this and if they're not doing everything in their power to save people, they are going to pay the price because every day that we delay, people are dying and they're dying by the hundreds."

 

In hopes of defusing the situation at the convention center, Nagin gave the evacuees permission to march across a bridge to the city's unflooded west bank for whatever relief they could find.

 

A day after Nagin took 1,500 police officers off search-and-rescue duty to try to restore order in the streets, there were continued reports of looting, shootings, gunfire and carjackings.

 

Tourist Debbie Durso of Washington, Michigan, said she asked a police officer for assistance and his response was, "Go to hell - it's every man for himself." FEMA officials said some operations had to be suspended in areas where gunfire has broken out, but they are working overtime to feed people and restore order.

 

Outside a looted Rite-Aid drugstore, some people were anxious to show they needed what they were taking. A gray-haired man who would not give his name pulled up his T-shirt to show a surgery scar and explained that he needs pads for incontinence. "I'm a Christian," he said. "I feel bad going in there."

 

Hospitals struggled to evacuate critically-ill patients who were dying for lack of oxygen, insulin or intravenous fluids. But when some hospitals try to airlift patients, Coast Guard Lieutenant Commander Cheri Ben-Iesan said, "There are people just taking potshots at police and at helicopters, telling them, `You better come get my family.'"

 

To make matters worse, the chief of the Louisiana State Police said he heard of numerous instances of New Orleans police officers - many of whom are from flooded areas - turning in their badges.

 

"They indicated that they had lost everything and didn't feel that it was worth them going back to take fire from looters and losing their lives," Colonel Henry Whitehorn said.

 

Mississippi's confirmed death toll from Katrina rose to 126 on Thursday as more rescue teams spread out into a sea of rubble to search for the living, their efforts complicated at one point by the threat of a thunderstorm.

 

All along the 90-mile coast, other emergency workers performed the grisly task of retrieving corpses, some of them lying on streets and amid the ruins of obliterated homes that stretch back blocks from the beach.

 

Governor Haley Barbour said he knows people are tired, hungry, dirty and scared, particularly in areas hardest hit by Katrina. He said the state faces a long and expensive recovery process.

 

"I will say, sometimes I'm scared, too," Barbour said during a briefing in Jackson, Mississippi. "But we are going to hitch up our britches. We're going to get this done."

-----------------

 

For some it is obvious, for the others this is why I still say shoot the street thugs.

 

[Kulapavana 0]

NO exposed the myth of "government protection" in America. If something REALLY serious happens nationwide, I pity the folks living in the cities... I'm also not surprised that the "good" citizens did not ORGANIZE themselves into a MILITIA... all these years of brainwashing and demonizing organized and armed citizenry have paid off...

[theist 1]

But I suspect the message will be missed. I feel this is just the beginning for America and the world in general. If karma is real then just imagine what is held in stock for this globe.

[Kulapavana 0]

we definitely need to prepare for that - spiritually and materially. just like Srila Prabhupada predicted - it will happen within the lifetime of his disciples.

[gHari 0]

It is now clear why Osama got away from the troops. It takes them four days/seems-like-weeks to get to the hurricane scene. They look like total screw-ups in front of the whole world. Maybe they are.

[Kulapavana 0]

US government agencies are staffed with Affirmative Action loser personnel and directed by incompetent political appointees... and at the very top are just crooks and special interest junkies.

 

all they can do is to create another layer of bureaucracy (like recently with terrorism)on top of existing failure to make a SHOW for the stupid public that they are doing their job...

[Kulapavana 0]

Case in point: the guy heading FEMA (Michael D. Brown).

 

What was he doing before getting pulled into FEMA by the Bush administration in 2003? He was an estate planning lawyer in Colorado and of counsel for the International Arabian Horse Association Legal Department.

[theist 1]

Yeah that guy has got to go. Fire him and maybe some federal prision time as well. Four two days before the storm I was hearing these warnings to evacuate New Orleans because it would be flooded. So it happened a little differently with the levees breaking. Big deal and no excuse. Why weren't they ready from the original predictions?? The trucks that arrived today should have been loaded and on the road at least a day before the ___ hit the fan.

 

We can add him to the hit list(figuratively speaking if echelon is listening) along with the so-called Mayor of NO who is now talking big about the mess,trying to distance himself from it, it was also his job to contain the problem and provide immediate security.

 

I keep telling myself it's all just a bad dream but it ain't working. Which tells me theorhetical knowledge won't cut it at the time of death. My position is not at all secure.

 

We can figure that this may happen in our backyard at anytime and if not on this scale at least the time of death.

 

Lord Gauranga please save us.

[stonehearted 0]

Well, it seems to me that your protests that your remarks aren't racist (I'm not saying you are) would ring truer if you didn't repeatedly call attention to the color of these folks' skin. That's not the real factor. Here are some real factors:

 

poverty

abandonment

despair

opportunity

 

Those who had the means to do so fled the area. The rest were left behind and ignored by our "protectors" for days.

 

The creeps who are taking advantage of this situation by ransacking stores and homes for valuables and shooting at anone with a uniform should be dealt with severely, black, white, brown, yellow, or whatever. The survival "looters" should be fed, bathed, housed along with the other victims of the catastrophe. This is a horrible situation, and it's going to get much worse. Those of us who can't help should shut up and offer some prayers, rather than condemn these poor folks from our air-conditioned homes and apartments as we eat snack food while watching cable TV and ranting on our keyboards. Chanakya Pandit says that those who are actually wise identify with others' suffering as if it were their own.

 

BTW, I get a little irked when I see anyone, but especially followers of Lord Chaitanya, small-mindedly dismiss anyone else's opinion with cheap labels (PC, liberal, conservative) as an alternative to genuine thought and discourse.

[theist 1]

get irked then.

[Guest guest]

Was that really Theist that said that? If so, I am terribly dismayed. I thought you were a very compassionate devotee. This Katrina disaster has resulted in some anarchy obviously but that was an unnecessary blanket statement about blacks. Has all your accolades on Audarya fellowship gone to your head? I thought you were kind. I reeaally did.

[Guest guest]

Theist you may not be racist, I don't belive you are anyways, but what you said is not something that should be defended, we all make mistakes and put our foots in our mouths at times. What you said was in fact racist, "blacks rampaging"? C'mon, the fact of the matter is that criminals of all ethnicities are "rampaging" and looting non essentials from stores, I saw on t.v. white people pushing carts full of non essential merchandise coverign their faces, t.v newsmen in stores asking white people in department stores who were looting whatever they could grab why they were doing, the white people just shrugged or covered their faces and walked away.

 

If New Orleans was now filled with poor white people instead of poor black people do you think the situation would be different? Do you think that white people are incapable of violent acts? Poor desperate and evil people the world over of any ethnicity are the criminal element of society. In the 1920's and 30's Jews and Irish and Italians in america were a major criminal element, this is because they were immigrants and unable to find good jobs because they were discriminated against. The plain evil among them were famous mass murderers working for organized crime. That has changed since the Jews and Irish and Italians moved up in society (the mafia myth shown in movies and t.v is fiction, organized crime today and since the 40's is multi ethnic and not run solely by Italian or Sicilian families). Black people and Latino peole now fill those roles. But when Blacks and Latinos have higher levels of education and wealth then they have the same level of crime as that found in similar economic brackets.

 

Crime and evil is everywhere, but it is especially prevelant among the poor, of ANY ethnicity. The scariest criminal element in Europe comes from the poorest country, Albania. The Albanian mafia is the most vicious and most feared in Europe, they have been hired by the other mafias to do the dirty work. The same thing is found everywhere. Poverty equals less education and higher rates of violence and crime.

 

Black culture in America is not a monolithic thing. There are black people who are kind, intelligent, educated, etc. In the american south black culture has a type of Black establishment similar to the white "eastern establishment". They are wealthy, they have cotillions, they become doctors and lawyers etc. The hip hop gangsta culture you see on television and in music is the youth culture, it is not the entire black culture by any stretch of the imagination, any more then grunge rock is white culture. I have many black friends who are into jazz, art, intellectuals etc. Are they part of the "violent black culture"? O.G's in Compton and Brooklyn do not typify all of black culture.

 

That isn't PC, thats reality.

 

As far as comparing American slavery with Vedic slavery, they were two very different things. Slaves in vedic society were not born slaves, they were not slaves in the sense of what you think of as slaves in the american tradition. They had rights, they were not life long slaves, they could not be mistreated under penalty of law, they were really indentured servants who were repaying criminal debts or war debts. This is another topic but don't think they were anything even comparable to what blacks went through in america. In america the slave had no rights, they were property like animals and could be killed or tortured at whim with no rules as to their treatment. Believe it or not the real reason for the American Revolution was because the British wouldn't allow the big slave owning plantation owners from encroaching into Indian territory west of the 13 colonies. The plantation owners, Washington in the lead, were adament in wanting to create militias in order to move into Ohio, Kentucky, etc. see this map http://library.thinkquest.org/10966/map.shtml?tqskip1=1

 

Everything to the left of the thirteen colonies was planned on being attacked, the plantation owning elites in virgina were the instigators, Washington the lead instigator, the Indian tribes to the west were to be enslaved, and then forced to work their land as plantation workers. (this is all real history I can give a link if you want) The British had decided to make all that land Indian reservations, they would not allow Washington and his cohorts to carry out their planned invasion and enslavement. That was the prime cause of the "Revolutionary War". Which really was a civil war. Most of the country was not supportive of the elites war of "independence". In fact there was so little support that most people supported the British. It was mostly the state of Virginia versus the British when it came to who actually fought the war. Virginia was the wealthy colony, thats where the wealthiest plantations owners lived, they were the people who wanted to be free of British "oppression", which really meant they wanted to be free to kill Indians, steal their land and increase their slave holdings. The British freed the slaves wherever they defeated the Americans, which was everywhere. Later the slaves were all recaptured and put back in chains by the americans. Washingtons troops hated Washington, he was an evil tyrant, he would whip his troops hundreds of lashes for minor enfractions, kill them if they didn't follow orders. He lost the war, had no food, no weapons, won no battles, he wasn't a military man, he was an evil aristocrat who was given command because of his family connections, he was intent on murdering and enslaving, and fighting a "revolution" against anyone who would oppose him. How did America win? The French navy came and defeated the British.