Jesus on right hand side of Caitanya Mahaprabhu?

[Tatian 0]

"He told them all to stay put and not preach His message until they were empowered by the Holy Spirit, an indication that until that time, they were not qualified to act on His behalf." Poster Krsna.

 

There was authority in the Jews from of old. Even John the Baptist's father was chosen by lots, traditionally, to work in the temple the day the angel visited to prepare for a blessed child. And it was.

 

Peter was told to wait, yes and was also at that time reinstated. He had authority to cast out spirits, as one under and carrying Christ's authority. The replacement apostle needed to be ready for Pentecost. Mark was Peter's writer, Matthew drew on Mark and Luke on them. And Luke wrote the Acts. Witnessing Pentecost and the baptisms. That Matthew was chosen.

 

 

"After thus reminding them of their duties in regard to His mission, He left them. A certain realization hit them that His mission and His actual physical presence were the same. (Acts 1:11)" Poster Krsna.

 

Krsna, I do not see your point mate.

 

"The election process has never been a valid indicator of who is representative of the Will of the Supreme Lord. Such empowerment comes from Him ALONE, and is never left to the decisions of men, especially those who fail to carry out His order. When Pentecost finally arrived, the empowerment was in the form of the ability to speak in terms understood by the masses. Some nonsense interpreters of this phenomenon imitate false empowerment by a pretense called "speaking in tongues", uttering gibberish in an attempt to mislead the foolish. Actual Pentecostal empowerment means one is empowered by the Supreme Lord to speak with such authority that understanding of the message and change of heart naturally takes place, yet many give credence to the pretender christian sahajiya because the make undecipherable noises." Poster Krsna.

 

Peter spoke in men's tongues. Believer's here in Sydney were understood to be speaking a message in Hebrew once. Anyhow, Paul mentions even speaking in the language of angels in 1Cor 13. This is personal, and not for others, or to mislead foolish people. Paul also says that tongues gives no meaning, despite clear words, and messages should be spoken which we can understand and I have heard some such messages.

 

 

"So, instead of having, as a basis, the simple commandment of Loving the Supreme Father with whole mind, heart body and soul, and loving His children as one's self, christianity has come to require one to pass muster and be similarly elected, to supercede His instructions and place one's confidence in the congregation (especially the leaders), over and above the Will of the Supreme Lord." Poster Krsna.

 

You can protest to this.

 

"In the story of Ananias (Acts 5:1), such coersion is evident. Though Lord Jesus Christ gave clear instructions concerning giving in LOVING service, Simon Peter contradicts by demanding giving without love, forced servitude. He also places leaders of the organization on the same level of Lord Jesus Christ and His Supreme Father, elected, appointed, without tolerance to some who may have actual empowerment (i.e. Mary of Magdalia). Thus, the roots of christianity are stained by such fanaticism, opposed to the loving service to the Supreme Father as espoused by the founder, Lord Jesus Christ." Poster Krsna.

 

Annanias passed away by God sadly, because he lied to the Holy Spirit. If he had said "here's some" or "I am keeping it for my enjoyment" and was honest, he'd have lived perhaps seventy years.

 

Mary and Peter were friends as from Jesus. Mary prayed for Peter to come out of prison succesfully. They were happy to hear him at the door.

 

"Are these points indicative of apostasy in the hearts of these direct disciples of Lord Jesus Christ? Not necessarily, yet they show that apostles that supercede the levels of their empowerment by the Lord to be His representative can be not only contradictory, but actually misrepresentative, and very dangerous to spiritual life. When one falsely perceives oneself to represent the Lord without actual empowerment by the Lord Himself, one only usurps, arrogantly, the position of the Lord and acts as false god." Poster Krsna.

 

Peter was empowered, in the three years of knowing Jesus and then by the Spirit at Pentecost who stayed with Peter. Peter did not kill Annanias but Peter obeyed and spoke and acted as authorised and the Holy Spirit dealt with Annanias.

 

As for "elections"... you can protest.

 

Luther began a protest to the "loss of truth". Pentecostals press for truth and grace.

 

 

 

[Tatian 0]

Jesus was at the right hand of the Father in the beginning, as the word. John 1:1-4. He is the creator Spirit. He was incarnate and gained the fullness of humanity in Mary. But not a sinful nature.

 

In the wilderness He was tested spirit, soul and body. Early in the Gospel. God cannot be tested.

 

Phil 2:5-11. Jesus was equal with God. And God never changes, "He is the same yesterday, today and forever", from Hebrews.

 

Sometimes he is pleased, sometimes angry, like a moving joint, different positions but the same. Manifest in the flesh He was fully God with full humanity. His divine qualities not drawn apon as if asleep.

 

He was somehow separated from His Father on the cross, where He was cursed with all mankinds sin, Himself becoming sin and so His Father in Heaven would not look apon Him and the skies became dark. This was the most painful part of Jesus life experience. Worse than the Roman barbarity of many hours.

 

To be in Hell away from His Father hurt! His heal was bruised permanently as from Genesis 3:15. Yes Satan has power! If you want the salvation Jesus offers, you must believe in Him for all He is or you will not be made right or just, through that faith.

 

Jesus returned to the Father being called from death having defeated it and having destroyed sin. To sit at God's right hand means on an equal plane. Adam was more than a servant. We are above angels.

 

Jesus is equal to His Father having, 'never changed', and his divinity sort of awakened with His glorification. Even His wounds are glorious. All call Him Lord but for the Father and Spirit.

 

Augustine, a great great Christain teacher said that the Father and Spirit together are not greater than the Son. Or similar words

 

Brother, if you want Jesus' salvation, you must believe in Him for all He is! Jesus had to be powerfully natured and work much for salvation to be complete. May the angels bless you much and again.

 

"Jesus" is short for "Yahweh is Salvation". He is Yahweh.

[theist 1]

 

 

 

Again what sort of statement is this? Well, I do not equate revealation with mental speculation.

 

 

Nor do I. The idea of mental speculation entering into this is your mental speculation.

 

 

Whatever paralells or similarities there are, only mental speculation can be done from there.

 

 

By you or only mental speculations can come. But from the Lord comes revealtion. And since I am not the Revealer I can't guaruntee it will come nor do I feel the need to try be the Revealer. It simply is not my place.

 

 

 

 

Please be more courteous to other board members. You have done a good job now saying it is your belief. Whereas before you did not making it more of a task to filter through posts.

 

 

Oh thank you for giving my a higher grade this time boss.lol To make it easy for filter through the posts may I suggest that you simply skip all posts marked theist. Consider it a warning sign and avoid them. This is my courteous warning to you.

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe this maybe that, maybe something else. That's as far as we can go. Speculation.

 

 

Again because I am not the Revealer I leave the door open. I made my belief known I just don't feel a need to try and push it. You are having trouble with this concept obviously.

 

 

Is Sri Jesus Sri Haridas? Who knows? Sri Haridas is revealed in Gauraganodesdipika to be Brahma. If in fact, Sri Jesus is 'the right hand man' of God as you say, then he cannot be Sri Haridas.

 

 

Now you are speculating which is exactly what you have been objecting to.

 

 

Some speculate Sri Jesus is Brahma or Baladeva. And from paralells and similarities in the lives of Sri Jesus, Sri Buddha and Sri Krishna make all kinds of speculation. I for one am not interested in such speculations.

 

 

Not interested? Then why are you spending so much time on it?

 

But thank you for sharing your beliefs. And thanks for using the word believe now, that makes it much quicker to filter through.

 

 

I will do better in the future I promise... at least I believe I promise.

[theist 1]

 

What is so funny? Think? I do not want to just think, I want to know. Not speculate.

 

When walking in the forest, which side of Sri Ram did Sri Laxman and Srimati Sita ALWAYS walk on? And in Ram Darbar, did those positions change? The Vishnu forms of Sri Krishna have the Shanka, Chakra, Gada and Padma paraphernelia arranged in each their own specific ways. And on which side of Sriman Vasudeva are Sri Pradyumna and Sri Aniruddha ALWAYS on?

 

If being on the right and left means something I do not know.

 

Jai Sri Krishna!

 

 

So you seem to prefer a kind of frozen in place view of the inconceivably Dynamic World and its Players.

 

To each his own.

[AncientMariner 0]

I guess Jesus will teach all his disciples about Krishna when they are prepared for that knowledge maybe?

[theist 1]

Yes it is that simple I believe AM. Prabhupada was asked if Lord Jesus had his own planet and Prabhupada said he must and called it Christ-loka.

 

We know from the Gita that one goes where their worship directs them. From ghosts and spirits to Krsna Himself. So if someone does not have sufficient awareness of the Supreme Lord but is attched to the service of one of His avatar's or devotees he will fortunately go to them when he leaves his body.

 

So the soul worships Christ and he goes to Christ. Now what? Lord Jesus has no other business but to reveal the Supreme Lord so their training will continue.

 

Jesus told his disciples thatb there was much more he wanted to tell them but they weren't ready for it. So from the Spirit in the heart he continues to teach those that allow themselves to hear and the sincere go to his loka.

 

Jesus also told his followers that he has many other followers that they no nothing of. I picture Jesus Christ going from one planet to another rescuing lost souls and drawing souls from all over the universe unto his Christ-loka for further revelation.

[Guest guest]

 

So you seem

 

 

Seems so to you sir. That is okay. Paint whatever picture you like.

 

As far as your accusations of me speculating, and non-acceptance of your own. It shows you have a distorted understanding of what speculation is. Perhaps because you are in denial. Look it up in the dictionary maybe or see how Srila Prabhupada uses the word. In any case good luck and good day.

[theist 1]

perhaps we shouldn't have exchanges dear guest

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

 

So you want to goto Christ-loka.!

[theist 1]

But I really want to first find out who I am and what my relationship to the Lord is. After that I don't think a particular destination will matter that much.

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

 

You should be a politician.

[theist 1]

Let's face it such options like Christ-loka Satya-loka Vaikuntha Krsna-loka etc. are not really before me Pankaja. I just know I don't want what I deserve.

 

But this is why we don't need to try to make iskcon clones out of Christians. If we can inspire someone to increase their faith in Jesus then we have helped them. If we can strengthen their knowledge that Jesus is the Son who serves God greater than himself then we have helped that much more. And if we can talk a few out of killing cows...

[Airicky 0]

 

But this is why we don't need to try to make iskcon clones out of Christians. If we can inspire someone to increase their faith in Jesus then we have helped them. If we can strengthen their knowledge that Jesus is the Son who serves God greater than himself then we have helped that much more. And if we can talk a few out of killing cows...

 

 

Nicely put. Isn't this also Prabhupada's message?

[theist 1]

It's the nonsectarian teaching that I hear.

 

"Hundreds and millions of holy names..."

 

"each one invested with Your transcendental potency"

 

"No hard and fast rules for chanting these holy names..."

[Guest guest]

must be some newly revealed evidence of new Pancha Tattva

you know with the time line differences and all it does not appear likely otherwise the associates of Lord Caitanya dev and Lord Nityanada have been introduced quite efficiently by the sastras oui or non ?

 

 

[Guest guest]

I love how on this forum, traditional/scripture-based conceptions of Vishnu are quick to be labeled as "frozen,sectarian," or "narrow-minded," while on the other hand, highly syncretic and scripturally baseless conjecture like "Jesus on the right side..." etc is taken to be open-minded and inclusive.

 

It simply mirrors the growing trend towards relativizing Vedas and Vedic culture as "merely Hindu," while on the other hand watering down the actual religion to make it more palatable to Western converts who have a problem with "sarva dharmAn parityajya..."

 

Cheers,

 

Ben

[gHari 0]

 

<center><img src=http://www.vaisnava.com/photoseries/puri_maths04/18.jpg></center>

 

http://www.vaisnava.com/photoseries_puriparikram04_temples.html

 

[Guest guest]

Deities at the Purusottama Gaudiya Math in Puri. This temple, established by Prabhupada Sri Bhakti Siddhanta Sarsaswat Thakur, is on the Chakra Tirtha sand dune hill at Garubatsahi. The Deities in fact are in a room adjoining the old bedroom of Srila Saraswati Thakur.

 

If I could die here in Gaurbatsahi, I will die a happy man.

- Muralidhar