The difference (true and less true followers?) - Part 2

[Guest guest]

***That person is a great offender, and I hope that Sri Krishna would be merciful with us and spare us with the presence of that obstinate offender.

 

 

That person is a great offender, and I hope that Sri Krishna would be merciful with us and spare us with the presence of that obstinate offender Vedanta Samiti.

 

om tat sat.

 

 

 

[anadi 0]

I cannot bear anymore the offences and lies against our Math.

 

 

[Guest guest]

I am write citation sastra for you and facts. If you organisatin do against ISKCON and Srila Prabhupada, anothers be do against YOURS prganisation.

 

If you rersonally sapa me, I am be personally sapa these who teach YOU. It is teachings - war with ISKCON. They needs silently stay in his korner, yours image quikly fall down.

 

If you organisatin do against ISKCON and Srila Prabhupada, anothers be do against YOURS prganisation.

 

You understand?

 

If you organisatin do politics against ISKCON and Srila Prabhupada, anothers be do politics against YOURS prganisation.

 

You understand?

 

YOU write offences and lies about doctrine Srila Prabhupada.

 

You understand? I am give facts.

 

YOU write offences and lies about doctrine Srila Prabhupada, your Vedanta Samiti war constantly with ISKCON.

 

It is true. You innocent soul and some kalicelas exploite you for war aparadha and so on against Srila Prabhupada, ISKCON and devotees Srila Prabhupada. It is kalicelas.

[Guest guest]

 

It seems a very hard accusation that I try to present Krishna as a selfish person.

Read carefully the 10th Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam (or Krishna Book) and you will see in the prayers of the demigods headed by BrahmA where they say that this world is here only for the satisfaction of the Lord.

 

 

 

The Lord finds satisfaction in His kindness to the jivas. The whole existence is just there to make The Supreme Lord perfect. So the material existence is existing because The Lord shows His kindness to suffering jivas here. This does not mean He wanted to show kindness that is why He created the world. He created the world because we jivas had karma (material enjoyment) and we needed a chance to progress spiritually. But the whole thing turned out to be such that Krishna could show His kindness.

 

 

We are the servants. But to attain this qualification we should attain the stage of love.

 

 

 

For people with material attachment, this love does not develop in vaccume. You need cause like I said, most beautiful, most expert, most clever, and surely -- most kind. Otherwise how many people can you convince - He is God, supreme enjoyer, bow your head! People will bow their head in fear, not love. But you can try! Good luck!!!

 

 

It is also sorrowful to see your endeavor to put as primary goal of the existence of the material world the intention of the Lord to rescue the jivas, but this is secondary.

Take Sri Krishna. He came in Vrindava and performed the lila of coming and going, not as in Goloka, and this has its vaiSiStha, that he don’t give in Goloka, and taste rasa in slightely different way as in Goloka, all the other reasons of His descent are secondary.

 

 

 

I will not discuss what you are saying is right or wrong. but even if it is right, the issue is -- do you realize that you have knowledge of Krishna's lila? Does He need you or me to know about this "going in and going out" lila. He will say, I want to do this lila and poof! one more earth will come out with perfect setup for His lila. But He did not do that, He came here so we can see and hear about it and surrender to Him.

 

 

Take Sriman Mahaprabhu, first he came to taste the feelings of separation of Srimati Radhika, all the other reasons come after.

 

 

 

In one prakash bheda, Sriman Mahaprabhu is always in mood of Srimati Radhika, in another He is enjoying with Lakshmipriya and Vishnupriya. These are nitya lilas. He does not need to come to earth to get a taste of these feelings. He comes to material world to save suffering souls. To give vent to His feelings of kindness.

[Guest guest]

He created the world because we jivas had karma (material enjoyment) and we needed a chance to progress spiritually.

[Guest guest]

 

He created the world because we jivas had karma (material enjoyment) and we needed a chance to progress spiritually.

 

The jivas were very clever, they wanted to enjoy that which didn't even exist. (i.e.material enjoyment).

 

 

and we needed a chance to progress spiritually.

 

 

I think a better place to progress spiritually would have been the spritual world itself, if that were the reason!

 

[Guest guest]

Soul prfect. They no need any progress. material world create for desire souls and no need for Lord. But krisna come here in many form for benefit conditioned souls.

 

Hare Krisna.

[Guest guest]

you english understand?

capishi?

 

[qoute]material world create for desire souls[/qoute]

 

*** not choise spiritual world? Hmm...spiritual world not attractiv?

 

Cazacioc!

[Guest guest]

soul perfect?

 

only spiritual world soul perfeto! capishi?

 

nitya siddha krishna prema sadhya kabu naya

shravana adi suddha citte karaye udaya

 

The eternally perfected existing krishna prema is not to be added from nowhere. But it is not manifested, only when one begins with the process of hearing and so on, the heart will attain the state of shuddha sattva and later hladini will come inside according to suddha sattva vishesha atma prema surya angshu samyabhak rucibis citta mashrinya krit asau bhava ucyate.

 

Stupido! che non manchi de perfetione

No sadhana, no seed grow! no manifesting perfection!only spiritual world soul perfeto! capishi?

No, you don't capishi, you too much bloody vodka, and bloody cazacioc, so you bloody tough!

 

 

[yasodanandana 0]

"Stupido! che non manchi de perfetione"

(stupid.. that you do not lack perfection!"

 

someone from italy 14th century has come in this forum, the meaning of what is saying is obscure, but it sounds like St.FrancisOf Assisi... (where i will go Sunday!!!)

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

He created the world because we jivas had karma (material enjoyment) and we needed a chance to progress spiritually.

 

The jivas were very clever, they wanted to enjoy that which didn't even exist. (i.e.material enjoyment).

 

 

 

karma is a result of propensity to enjoy. Thus it is not wrong to state that karma is material enjoyment with one kind of logic that says cause and effect are same. It is more so in this case because you cannot find the beginning.

 

 

think a better place to progress spiritually would have been the spritual world itself, if that were the reason!

 

 

 

Everybody is has full knowledge / import of vedas in the spiritual world. They don't need tp progrees. They are already perfect. If we are put in the spiritual world -- we will run away from there the next moment because we are not fit for that environment.

 

Now listen to this:

 

Srimad Bhagavatam 10.33.36 (rasa dance chapter)

 

anugrahaya bhaktanam

manusam deham asthitah

bhajate tadrsih krida

yah srutva tat-paro bhavet

 

TRANSLATION

 

When the Lord assumes a humanlike body to show mercy to His devotees, He engages in such pastimes as will attract those who hear about them to become dedicated to Him.

 

 

 

Somebody called this philosophy unfortunate earlier. But what is more unfortunate is that poople are not even ready to acknowledge the kindness that Lord has already done relegating it to the back. When one understands, what extra the Lord does for insignifact and perverted jivas like us, then heart is softened.

[Guest guest]

The soul is perfect

But than the soul is imperfect because he has the enjoying propensity

 

you continue to speculate contradicting yourself as the kailas company

 

material world create for desire souls

 

*** not choise spiritual world? Hmm...spiritual world not attractiv?

 

[Guest guest]

Twisting the concept of perfection and mixing it with? Karma.

The soul is perfect

But than the soul is imperfect because he has the enjoying propensity

 

Where from comes the imperfection of karma in the soul, if the soul was living in the perfect world? The answer would be? Mickey Mouse had said: we cannot know! and Newton said cause and effect are one. What says kasilas? Hmm...spiritual world not attractiv?

 

But if the soul was imperfect, it means, it doesn’t come from the spiritual world, because in the spiritual world everything is perfect. The solution comes from the sleeve:

Karma comes from the spiritual world, it is a state that can happen to anyone in the spiritual world. Nice philosophy. Congratulation!

 

Wait a minute, if we wanted to enjoy and Krishna didn’t let us, and sent us in this miserable jail, than Krishna is very mean. And than he pretend He is saves us, after He Himself sent us here.

Nice tattva coming from nice speculations

I must congratulate myself!

 

[Guest guest]

Karma comes from the spiritual world, it is a state that can happen to anyone in the spiritual world.

 

But if Karma can pull me in this miserable world, it makes no sense to renounce this world, because I can fall back any time again.

Oh, yes I understand now. We fall only one time, because Krishna says that the one that comes to me, will never come back in this world. Oh Krishna is very merciful! He doesn't let karma to pull me again in this miserable world.

He the Supreme Controler will put karma on other jivas.

Praised be the Lord, who is so merciful!

I think my siddhanta is also good.

Oh, Lord! I am stupid!

[Guest guest]

 

 

If we are put in the spiritual world -- we will run away from there the next moment because we are not fit for that environment.

 

 

Kasilas have spoken:

"not choise spiritual world? Hmm...spiritual world not attractiv?"

 

If we are put in the spiritual world?

Just a moment you said we come from the spiritual world, so

as long as we were there, why not learn on the easy way, there everybody is God conscious, and in the miserable speculative world is extremely difficult to make it. Or maybe God wanted have fun of us, or wanted to punish us! No, He wanted to show His mercy!

I've got it.

This is siddhanta. I love the new age!

 

[Guest guest]

"When the living entities desire to enjoy themselves, they develop a consciousness of duality and come to hate the service of the Lord. In this way the living entities fall into the material world. In the prema-vivarta it is said:

The natural position of the living entity is to serve the Lord in a transcendental loving attitude. When the living entity wants to become Krsna Himself or imitate Krsna, he falls down into the material world. Since Krsna is the supreme father, His affection for the living entity is eternal. When the living entity falls down into the material world, the Supreme Lord, through His expansion (Paramatma), keeps company with the living entity. In this way the living entity may some day return home, back to Godhead."

 

YOU write offences and lies about doctrine Srila Prabhupada.

 

Here Prabhupada don't say living entities fall from spiritual world.

 

 

[Guest guest]

"But in this verse the Lord also speaks of the living entity as "an eternal fragment of Myself." The fragment of God, the living entity, may fall down into the material world, but the Supreme Lord (Acyuta) never falls down.

 

You learn english, here Prabhupada say "living entity may fall down" but He doesn't say from the spiritual world.

 

You understand?

 

YOU write offences and lies about doctrine Srila Prabhupada.

[Guest guest]

Acyuta refers to one who does not fall because He is never influenced by the modes of material nature. When a living entity falls down to the material world from his original position,

 

Here not fall spiritual world, here clear,

jiva fall original position

jiva is tatashta shakti, this is original position, you understand shakti? and understand tatashta? jiva=tatashta shakti.

jiva fall tatashta shakti=original position.

 

kasilala uvaca" All souls tatastha, they eternal tatastha" Stupido.Not eternal tatashta, eternal Krishna dasa.

 

You understand?

 

YOU write offences and lies about doctrine Srila Prabhupada.

[Guest guest]

akisilas give citation:

"In this way the living entity may some day go home, back to Godhead."

akisilas uvaca:All souls tatastha, they eternal tatastha.

 

 

You not forget!jiva Sakti-Original position - tatashta Sakti. Home for jiva - spiritual world. You take wrong, you go material world, you go back. You go Godhead, you go home!

 

YOU write offences and lies about doctrine Srila Prabhupada.

[Guest guest]

Hey! you panimayeshi (understand)?

original position of jiva shakti is tatashta shakti

jiva svarupa means eternal form is eternal kriSna dasa!

 

you to say "All souls tatastha, they eternal tatastha." Kazacioc!

Home for jiva is spiritual world. Spiritul world is ETERNAL! Kazacioc! ETERNAL!

you take the wrong way stupid ! you don't listen, more stupid, than go barbecue highway to hell!

If you smart, you take all the way back: "om bhur bhvar svar tat ....and go home. Home eternal. Home eternal with Godhead. Godhead so much attractive, most attractive, see Godhead you forget everything else.

No more kazacioc!

[Guest guest]

 

Kasilas have spoken:

"not choise spiritual world? Hmm...spiritual world not attractiv?"

 

If we are put in the spiritual world?

Just a moment you said we come from the spiritual world, so

as long as we were there, why not learn on the easy way, there everybody is God conscious, and in the miserable speculative world is extremely difficult to make it. Or maybe God wanted have fun of us, or wanted to punish us! No, He wanted to show His mercy!

I've got it.

This is siddhanta. I love the new age!

 

 

 

There is no shastra proof that jivas in maya come from spiritual world. Jivas in maya anadi. No beginning. We cannot go to spiritual world if we do not have that kind of desire. Simply wishing will not do. Intense desire needed. We have this intense desire to be in material world that is why we here. No come back. na ca punaravartate, anavrti shabdat. So Krishna make very sure you want to go there, otherwise blame will come on Him that He put you there forcibly. He does not force, that is our freedom, and that is why we have to develop the desire on our own. He does not use "magic wand" with our freedom to choose. He help, of course, but no change desire by magic.

[Guest guest]

**Cazacioc!

 

I am write not for you.

[Guest guest]

***will attain the state of shuddha sattva and later hladini will come inside

 

It is process cleaning. back to godhead.

 

***che non manchi de perfetione

No sadhana, no seed grow! no manifesting perfection!only spiritual world soul perfeto! capishi?

No, you don't capishi, you too much bloody vodka, and bloody cazacioc, so you bloody tough!

 

Stupido!

[Guest guest]

****** not choise spiritual world? Hmm...spiritual world not attractiv?

 

 

Stupido, you follow theory "fall soul" but not understand this.

[Guest guest]

***But than the soul is imperfect because he has the enjoying propensity

 

Soul take material body. Soul himself ETERNAL, stupido.