Guest guest Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 reigniting the debate of whether Swaminarayan is God. Scriptural evidence has been provided for this. Swaminarayan was a Guru yes- but same time He was God. Krsna was Ruler of Dwarika and the butter thief. He was a king and warrior. At same time He was God. Swaminarayan was Acarya and Guru. At same time God. The Bhagavatam as well as Geeta and other Puranic and Vedic texts are extensively studied in the sampraday. In addition the Shikshapatri is considered most holy as it is stated in verse 209 that His form is to worshipped. I am sure SP is referring to worship of the likes of Pramukh Swami which in fact is contradictory to the original Swaminarayan doctrine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Govindaram Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 HariboL! Going to chant for 25 years etc, rounds etc, become a pure devotee, and if this forum is still running by then, then I'll come and answer your question, until then just chant the holy names of God and always think of Krishna. Bye Haribol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2004 Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 er.no. i belive in pramukh swami...im a swaminarayan. i know lots of people that don't...they are swaminarayan... there is no space in the name no matter who we belive in!! i mean even if we belive in pramukh swami or not. nobody has had any arguments about who to belive in or who not to belive in. the people who dont belive in pramukh swami have the same kind of pricipals as the ones who do. its just that pramukh swami followers belive in akshar (god) and purshottam (his sant) the ones who dont belive in swami belive in akshar but not purshotattam....i hope this made sense jai swaminarayan jai shri krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranen Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 Hare Krishna. Despite the fact that the "Swaminarayan" culture follows a different sampradaya does not mean that they are fake. Do we say that Christians are fake. There is no mention of Christ in the Bhagavad-Gita or Bhagavatam. So then, we must come to conclusion that best thing to do is respect their beliefs and maintain focus on worshipping Lord Krishna. If someone is fake, or claims to be God there is nothing that one can do to stop them, such is the nature of false ego. However, it is not necessarily our place to go and criticise other religions, or sects as well. I am in high school and I see this happening all the time between other students. As devotees of the Lord we must all learn to be more considerate and respectful of others' opinions, even if we do not personally agree with them. All that matters is that you feel that Krishna is supreme, in your heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 you are right, we must be as gentle and respectiful as we can, but if one claims falsely to be god or to follow a fake god in public, we have to find the best way possible to save the other people who are listening or reading.. in private talking you are right, it is useless to criticize one's religious leader if he do not ask our opinion and if he's not ready to receive it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gokulkr Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 Yes, SwamiNarayan maybe krishna himself. Lord Ramanuja is Avatar of Lord Balarama. Also Lord Ramanuja is Guru to all true vaishnavatees. Lord Sri Ranganatha (Lord residing at Srirangam) , Lord Varadaraja (Lord residing at Kanchipuram) & Lord Venkateshwara (Lord residing at Tirupathi) have clearly told that Worshipping Lord Ramanuja is equal to worshipping himself (ie., Lord Narayana) and also told that worshipping Lord Ramanuja is superior than worshipping Lord Vishnu itself. we clearly know Lord Ramanuja is guru. So worshipping real gurus like Lord Ramanuja also gives moksha as told by God itself. I think this will apply to SwamiNarayan also. Please dont make any negative comments on Lord Ramanuja or to my views as insulting Lord Ramanuja is a great sin because Lord Ramanuja is "original" authorised Guru of "Sri Vaishnavam". OM NAMO NARAYANA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 "we clearly know Lord Ramanuja is guru. So worshipping real gurus like Lord Ramanuja also gives moksha as told by God itself." and it is ok.. basic vaishnavism "I think this will apply to SwamiNarayan also." why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 i think your right...im in secondary school and we do see people poking fun at other religions..i dont think that that is right because it is what they belive in and if we discourage them then it is the worst sin of all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 no....worshipping god is the same as worshipping a guru god is in that guru so it is exactly the same. that is why people worship pramukh swami too. because god is in him and he is deattached from this world. that is proof that he is not an ordianry person like me and you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gokulkr Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Because Like Lord Ramanuja Swaminarayan preached a way to attain Lord Narayana. Same can be said to Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu & Lord Madwacharya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Difference between Swaminarayan and other fakes is that vedic proof is given for the coming of Swaminarayan. Also look at his life achievements - admirable and achievable only by God. No teachings are non-vedic. Yes worshipping Guru AS GOD is mayavadi - but that is unique to BAPS and Maninagar not the Original Swaminarayn Movement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gokulkr Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 I dont know anything about "Swami Narayana". But i know about Lord Ramanuja & Lord Madwacharya. Lord Ramanuja is incarnation of Lord Adisesha. Lord Madvacharya is incarnation of Lord Hanuman. Hanuman, Adisesha & Garuda are icons of "Vaishnavam". Lord Vishnu had told directly told that worshipping "Lord Ramanuja , Lord Hanuman, Lord Prahlad (Lord Raghavendra), Lord Dhruva (Lord Padharaja)" is equal to worshipping him. So Lord Ramanuja, Lord Madwacharya, Lord Raghavendra & Lord Padharaja are certified "gurus/devotees/avatars". i also know that Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is incarnation of Lord RadhaKrishna. Apart from above gurus, i dont know about anyothers. Pardon me for lesser knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2004 Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 Haribol sorry, but swaminarayana's teachings clearly say that Krishna is the source of all incarnations. then why do his followers believe swaminarayana to be the source of all incarnations? i don't believe that swaminarayana assigned the maha mantra "swaminarayana", but did assign "sri krishna sharanamama". this is my view: those that worship Krishna, and chant the Hare Krishna maha mantra, are more than likely going to believe in and follow Krishna's word, namely the Gita and Bhagavatama. swaminarayana's followers don't even follow swaminarayana's advice, to say the least. just because someone is detached of material attachment, doesn't mean that one is the greatest devotee of the Lord, but that he has come to the great standard to find disinterest in material attachment. same was for lord buddha, am i not right? but that didn't mean that he preached God consciousness. so, are swaminarayana's followers even swaminarayana's "followers"? you may believe in whatever you believe in, but at least, mainly for the swaminarayana followers, read swaminarayana's teachings. so, to make that short, follow what who you follow said. also, from what you say that swaminarayana did what only God could: Before me, many swamis went to the Western countries to preach this Bhagavad-gita. Not a single person became a devotee of Krishna. Not a single person. And now Bhagavad-gita is being presented as it is, thousands are becoming devotee of Krishna. This is the secret. People give me credit that "Swamiji, you have done wonderful. Nobody could do it." I am not a wonderful man. Neither I do know anything magic. I have presented Bhagavad-gita as it is. That's all. This is the secret. -- Srila Prabhupada and: Prabhupada: Because he, my disciple respects me as God, that does not mean I'll think I have become God. and:Prabhupada: But that does not mean they should chant. Just like, we are not instructing our disciples to chant my name, "Bhaktivedanta Swami, Bhaktivedanta Swami..." No. They're chanting Hare Krsna. Hari-tvena samasta-sastrair uktah. Guru is respected as good as Krsna, but that does not mean I shall teach them to go and chant my name, "Bhaktivedanta Swami, Bhaktivedanta Swami, Bhaktivedanta Swami." What is this? We are teaching, "Chant Hare Krsna." Harer nama, harer nama... [Adi 17.21]. the point is, even Prabhupada did what no mortal could do in a thousand years, or even many times that. but, Prabhupada set the standard to chant Hare Krishna, not "Prabhupada Krishna". Haribol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 www.shikshapatri.org.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aminkaushal Posted September 24, 2010 Report Share Posted September 24, 2010 Swaminarayan is not Lord Krishna, Swami told to worship Lord Krishna, he himself was worshipping Shiv and Vishnu. His "kuldev" was Lord Hanuman. Swaminarayan temple devotees are going to a wrong path i say, but soon they all will realize, its not far. There are only 3 main gods and that is Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh and 3 main goddess Maa Parvati, Maa Lakshmi and Maa Saraswati. Above all there is Maa Gayatri who is the Ved mata. Before worshipping any god or goddess most of the people worship Lord Ganesha, i recently invited some of my Swaminarayan devotees to come to Celebrate Ganesh Chaturhi but they never replied to my invitation nor even made a courtesy call to me... There are very few on this earth who knows why there are 3 spikes in a "Trishul", does any one here ? Jai Shri Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmHariNarayana Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 Sorry but according to vedas, there is no chance of lord vishnu appearing on earth in physical forms in kali yuga.Hence he is called as triyugaavatari, there is also one thing that people should not. Kalki avatar is not in kali yuga , it is at the time of pralaya as per vedas, and there are certain rules for a man to be considered as a avatara of any devata let alone sri krsna. According to vedas, there are 32 physical qualities in an avatara purusha. It is called some shastra but I don't remember that name. According to vedas praying to a false man claiming to be a god is also a sinful act. Any intelligent person can understand the characteristics of an avatara by understanding two features - the principal feature, called personality, and the marginal features. In the scriptures there are descriptions of the characteristics of the body and the activities of an incarnation, and the description of the body is the principal feature by which an incarnation can be identified. The activities of the incarnation are the marginal features.This is confirmed in the beginning of Srimad-Bhagavatam (1.1.1) where the features of an avatara are nicely described. These words reveal Krsna's principal feature. The other marginal features indicate that He taught Vedic knowledge to Brahma and incarnated as the purusa-avatara to create the cosmic manifestation. These are occasional features manifest for some special purposes. One should be able to understand and distinguish the principal and marginal features of an avatara. No one can declare himself an incarnation without referring to these two features. An intelligent man will not accept anyone as an avatara without studying the principal and marginal features. But there is also an interesting thing, according to some mantriks god will appear in an physical form to a devotee who does tapasya for 5 years and chants his beej mantra 13 crore times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadiyar Posted October 27, 2010 Report Share Posted October 27, 2010 Swaminarayan is not Lord Krishna, Swami told to worship Lord Krishna, he himself was worshipping Shiv and Vishnu. His "kuldev" was Lord Hanuman. Swaminarayan temple devotees are going to a wrong path i say, but soon they all will realize, its not far. There are only 3 main gods and that is Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh and 3 main goddess Maa Parvati, Maa Lakshmi and Maa Saraswati. Above all there is Maa Gayatri who is the Ved mata. Before worshipping any god or goddess most of the people worship Lord Ganesha, i recently invited some of my Swaminarayan devotees to come to Celebrate Ganesh Chaturhi but they never replied to my invitation nor even made a courtesy call to me... There are very few on this earth who knows why there are 3 spikes in a "Trishul", does any one here ? Jai Shri Krishna I believe the three spikes in the Trishul represent the past, present and future. When the trishul strikes the ego is cleansed of its karma in the past, present and future and the soul attains salvation. That is the explanation which I have gathered from a reading and meditating of Devi Mahatmyam especially chapter 4, where the devas led by Indira praise the Devi for killing the asuras. While the asuras are destroyed their souls are given a place near her. Gadiyar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadiyar Posted October 27, 2010 Report Share Posted October 27, 2010 Sorry but according to vedas, there is no chance of lord vishnu appearing on earth in physical forms in kali yuga.Hence he is called as triyugaavatari, there is also one thing that people should not. Kalki avatar is not in kali yuga , it is at the time of pralaya as per vedas, and there are certain rules for a man to be considered as a avatara of any devata let alone sri krsna. According to vedas, there are 32 physical qualities in an avatara purusha.It is called some shastra but I don't remember that name. According to vedas praying to a false man claiming to be a god is also a sinful act. Any intelligent person can understand the characteristics of an avatara by understanding two features - the principal feature, called personality, and the marginal features. In the scriptures there are descriptions of the characteristics of the body and the activities of an incarnation, and the description of the body is the principal feature by which an incarnation can be identified. The activities of the incarnation are the marginal features.This is confirmed in the beginning of Srimad-Bhagavatam (1.1.1) where the features of an avatara are nicely described. These words reveal Krsna's principal feature. The other marginal features indicate that He taught Vedic knowledge to Brahma and incarnated as the purusa-avatara to create the cosmic manifestation. These are occasional features manifest for some special purposes. One should be able to understand and distinguish the principal and marginal features of an avatara. No one can declare himself an incarnation without referring to these two features. An intelligent man will not accept anyone as an avatara without studying the principal and marginal features. But there is also an interesting thing, according to some mantriks god will appear in an physical form to a devotee who does tapasya for 5 years and chants his beej mantra 13 crore times. Can you please give us these 32 characteristics. It will save a lot of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santdasji Posted December 3, 2010 Report Share Posted December 3, 2010 According to vedas praying to a false man claiming to be a god is also a sinful act. THIS I AGREE WITH. But Swaminarayan was no man. he was God Himself. This is predicted within the Skand Puran as well. His works also state so. Also The Vasudev Mahatmyam declares that their are innumerable avtaras. They cannot be put into numbers. PLEASE QUOTE WHERE IN THE VEDAS IT STATES GOD DOESN'T COME IN THE KALIYUG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L33L4 Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 I am a bhakta and follower of the BAPS Sanstha, and a disciple of my priya Pramukh Swami Maharaj. But i want to clarify some things. I do not believe Swaminarayan is greater or inferior to Sri Krishna Swaminarayan Bhagwan and Sri Krishna are the same. Their childhood leelas were so similar. For example, they both loved makhan and stole it alot, both troubled their Mothers etc. Swaminarayan is purna Purushottam. This has been proven because he had all the 16 symbols of Purna Purushottam Narayan on his lotus feet. There was once a time when Ganshyam maharaj were having darshan of Sri Krishna during Janmastami. Suddenly people could see two Ganshyams, one next to the murti of Sri Krishna in the same flute playing pose, and the other next to His father, Dharmadev. Another miracle was when the murti of Sri Krishna came to life, walked down the stairs to Ganshyam and garlanded him. I believe both are the same Jai SriKrishna Jai Swaminarayan Jai Hind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L33L4 Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 And by the way, we DO NOT ever believe Pramukh Swami Maharaj to be God, but we believe God to be pragat in Him. The satpurush has in total 64 divine virtues. Please read a book by BAPS called 'Eternal Virtues' It talks about Pramukh Swami and his 64 virtues. Each chapter is one virtue and has prasangs(stories) of Pramukh Swami showing and proving that He has that virtue. We DO NOT mock any God/devta/devi either. Also not my whole family is Swaminarayan. My Dad is a devout Ram bhakta, My mum is vaishnav, and I am Swamianaryan Jai Ramchandra Jai Sri Krishna Jai Swaminarayan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L33L4 Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Oh and one more thing. My dad or Mum have never told me to become a Ram bhakta or vaishnav. We do bhakti together but to our respective ishtadevs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rohit007 Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Let them believe their beliefs and you believe yours, God expresses himself in various ways and every one is true.If you dont believe them just stay away.If they are true you are committing an offence if they are false then by staying away you are doing no harm.God is everywhere and omnipresent, If we can worship him in an Idol, why not in a human form, that is the Guru? Dont we worship him in our Parents and the Sun and Fire? Dosent the Gita say him to be present everywhere and worshiping him in the Guru is approved by the shastras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatteFrisch Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 Plz Remember ... words can cut deeper then the sharpest sword. Cutting with sword can easily be paapam, think about what you say.. dont talk down, it is paapam to talk down. I have a lot of respect for Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba and i have also a lot of respect for the BAPS Swaminarayan Sanstha they are doing good work. Your sampradaya this and sampradaya that is making me think of dangerous sectarian practices...WHAT HAPPENEND TO RESPECT?? It is easy to criticise all the way from Canada, isnt it? I think if you want to know if you are a fool or a rascal .. plz go and read bhagavat gita some more, you will definetely get answer. Hare Krishna. Winand. Thanks for this message. Any argument "if someone can be Krsna" is in vain because the intention behind it is not pure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L33L4 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 the reason why sahajanand swami wrote that followers of the sampraday to worship shri krishna baghwan is because he could not reveal to everyone that he was god. try announcing to everyone that u r god, will they believe u? no. only the pandavs, bhishmapita, dronacharya, uddhavji, vidur knew krishna to be god. most of the yadavs did not know krishna to be god. Similarly only devotees and sadhus like dada kachar, sura kachar, nityanand swami, gunatitanand swami, gopalanand swami, shukanand swami, muktanand swami,brahmanand knew sahajanand swami to be god. most haribhaktos knew him to be a great holy man or a sadguru, not god. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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