Demi gods

[theist 1]

That's why you can't call Gods demigods. Till now nobody challenged me . <<

 

There are no Gods. There is only God.

 

Krsna Conciousness is monotheistic.

 

[hare_krishna 0]

Krishna is also Vaasu-deva. So deva is not only used for the so-called demigods.

[Guest guest]

 

Sri Vakrathunda mahaakaaya kotisuryasamaprabhas

nirvighnam kurume deva subhakaryeshu sarvadaa

 

 

Jai Shree Krishna prabhu you beat me to this I was going to post the same question

In appropriate use off the word Demigod

Demigod can not be a substitute for devtas.

Perhaps it is used by some to differentiate/alienate/malign to establish there own doctrine

Devi/devtas are divine persons who bestows upon a devotee all good fortune, who so ever worships them. All the divinity is addressed as devtas in the scriptures.

Supreme lord is also referred to as deva, Krishna dev mahadev vaman dev nrsimhadev durgadevi sita devi

For Devtas off the swarg there is no ambiguity here they are all empowered devotees of the lord

To call lord Shiva /durga devi demigod, by the devotees of lord Vishnu vis-à-vis by the savite devotee is an insult to one another but refer to them as devtas would be more appropriate the word demigod is no where in our scriptures it sounds very derogatory.

 

To worship ones own istdev and respect the other devtas should be the order of the day

The supreme lord is not coffined to any one realisation nor is he /she subject to any rules or regulation he is not captured by any one or any institute

 

We are all here in this material world some how or other suffering unless I realise I am helpless and surrender to his/her will I shell go on suffering

When a child cry out parents immediately rush to help so also when we cry sincerely having realised our helplessness he/she surely listen it does not matter what name we call they surely help.

Garudgami madhusudan murari shyam manmohan

Pukare prem say koyi to nange pad atte hay

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Prasad b

 

[I_love_krishna_ 0]

Hare krishna!

[Guest guest]

Chapter 7. Knowledge of the Absolute

 

TEXT 20

 

kamais tais tair hrta-jnanah

prapadyante 'nya-devatah

tam tam niyamam asthaya

prakrtya niyatah svaya

 

SYNONYMS

 

kamaih--by desires; taih--by those; taih--by those; hrta--distorted; jnanah--knowledge; prapadyante--surrender; anya--other; devatah--demigods; tam--that; tam--that; niyamam--rules; asthaya--following; prakrtya--by nature; niyatah--controlled; svaya--by their own.

 

TRANSLATION

 

Those whose minds are distorted by material desires surrender unto demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of worship according to their own natures.

 

PURPORT

 

Those who are freed from all material contaminations surrender unto the Supreme Lord and engage in His devotional service. As long as the material contamination is not completely washed off, they are by nature nondevotees. But even those who have material desires and who resort to the Supreme Lord are not so much attracted by external nature; because of approaching the right goal, they soon become free from all material lust. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is recommended that whether one is free from all material desires, or is full of material desires, or desires liberation from material contamination, or is a pure devotee and has no desire for material sense gratification, he should in all cases surrender to Vasudeva and worship Him.

 

It is said in the Bhagavatam that less intelligent people who have lost their spiritual sense take shelter of demigods for immediate fulfillment of material desires. Generally, such people do not go to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, because they are in particular modes of nature (ignorance and passion) and therefore worship various demigods. Following the rules and regulations of worship, they are satisfied. The worshipers of demigods are motivated by small desires and do not know how to reach the supreme goal, but a devotee of the Supreme Lord is not misguided. Because in Vedic literature there are recommendations for worshiping different gods for different purposes (e.g., a diseased man is recommended to worship the sun), those who are not devotees of the Lord think that for certain purposes demigods are better than the Supreme Lord. But a pure devotee knows that the Supreme Lord Krsna is the master of all. In the Caitanya-caritamrta it is said that only the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna, is master and all others are servants. Therefore a pure devotee never goes to demigods for satisfaction of his material needs. He depends on the Supreme Lord. And the pure devotee is satisfied with whatever He gives.

 

 

TEXT 23

 

antavat tu phalam tesam

tad bhavaty alpa-medhasam

devan deva-yajo yanti

mad-bhakta yanti mam api

 

SYNONYMS

 

anta-vat tu--limited and temporary; phalam--fruits; tesam--their; tat--that; bhavati--becomes; alpa-medhasam--of those of small intelligence; devan--demigods' planets; deva-yajah--worshipers of demigods; yanti--achieve; mat--My; bhaktah--devotees; yanti--attain; mam--to Me; api--surely.

 

TRANSLATION

 

Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but My devotees ultimately reach My supreme planet.

 

PURPORT

 

Some commentators on the Gita say that one who worships a demigod can reach the Supreme Lord, but here it is clearly stated that the worshipers of demigods go to the different planetary systems where various demigods are situated, just as a worshiper of the sun achieves the sun or a worshiper of the demigod of the moon achieves the moon. Similarly, if anyone wants to worship a demigod like Indra, he can attain that particular god's planet. It is not that everyone, regardless of whatever demigod is worshiped, will reach the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is denied here, for it is clearly stated that the worshipers of the demigods go to different planets in the material world, but the devotee of the Supreme Lord goes directly to the supreme planet of the Personality of Godhead.

 

Here the point may be raised that if the demigods are different parts of the body of the Supreme Lord, then the same end should be achieved by worshiping them. However, worshipers of the demigods are less intelligent because they don't know to what part of the body food must be supplied. Some of them are so foolish that they claim that there are many parts and many ways to supply food. This isn't very sanguine. Can anyone supply food to the body through the ears or eyes? They do not know that these demigods are different parts of the universal body of the Supreme Lord, and in their ignorance they believe that each and every demigod is a separate God and a competitor of the Supreme Lord.

 

Not only are demigods parts of the Supreme Lord, but ordinary living entities are also. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is stated that the brahmanas are the head of the Supreme Lord, the ksatriyas are the arms, etc., and that all serve different functions. Regardless of the situation, if one knows that both the demigods and himself are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, his knowledge is perfect. But if he does not understand this, he achieves different planets where the demigods reside. This is not the same destination the devotee reaches.

 

The results achieved by the demigods' benedictions are perishable because within this material world the planets, the demigods and their worshipers are all perishable. Therefore it is clearly stated in this verse that all results achieved by worshiping demigods are perishable, and therefore such worship is performed by the less intelligent living entity. Because the pure devotee engaged in Krsna consciousness in devotional service of the Supreme Lord achieves eternal blissful existence that is full of knowledge, his achievements and those of the common worshiper of the demigods are different. The Supreme Lord is unlimited; His favor is unlimited; His mercy is unlimited. Therefore the mercy of the Supreme Lord upon His pure devotees is unlimited.

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

 

First give me a sanskrit word from Vedas/Puranas/Smritis for "demigod" used for all these Gods and never used for Vishnu in the scriptures.

 

 

All of these empowered controllers are the Lord's "vibhutis" as per the Bhagavad Gita.

 

I suggest you read the Gita for more information on this.

 

In regards to the devas, yes Krishna is not strictly one of them, for He is the source of all of them:

 

na me viduh sura-ganah

prabhavam na maharsayah

aham adir hi devanam

maharsinam ca sarvasah

 

"Neither the hosts of demigods nor the great sages know My origin or opulences, for, in every respect, I am the source of the demigods (devas) and sages (maharshis)." (Gita 10.2)

 

You have quoted a single phrase "ekam bahudha vadanti", with out any reference to its context and you think this thoroughly establishes all deities as one.

 

I would suggest you study the 10th and 11th chapters of Gita before trying to create controversies by challenging other devotee's views.

 

 

...the word demigod is no where in our scriptures it sounds very derogatory.

 

 

Neither is the word God. That's the funny thing about other languages - their words usually aren't found in our language. You may be even more surprised that we don't find any of the words in this paragraph in our scriptures, what are the odds of that?

 

When translating concepts into other languages we must use that which most perfectly represents the concept. In this case demigod is an accurate match. If we trace the ancient origins of the word God we will see it refers to one who possesses power, and demi indicates partially. This is the same as vibhuti, a partial empowerment by God.

[livingentity 0]

is to worship and serve Lord Krsna for lasting relief from this ocean of material misery.

 

Instant and temporary sense gratification - well, been there; done that; tired of it.

 

I cannot repeat this enough - read Prabhupada's books for detailed explanations - start with Bhagavad Gita As It Is. Already read it - you say - well read it again. Once is not enough.

 

 

[Govindaram 1]

You can say that again.

 

each time you read you feel inspired, life is Good, if only I had the time to chant and read all day...

 

anyone know the lottery no's for jackpot (only kidding) /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Guest guest]

a demigod is a person like anyone else who is empowered

by god for a certain function or purpose.

 

so in fact saying demigod is accurate, they are positions

in celestial management, not permanent people in eternal

positions.

 

Brahman is word to describe the aspect of God that is

infinite and energetic, Brahman is infinite energy,

Paramatma is the consciousness of that infinite energy, Bhagavan is the mind of that infinite energetic

consciousness.

P

[Guest guest]

Sri Vakrathunda mahaakaaya kotisuryasamaprabhas

nirvighnam kurume deva subhakaryeshu sarvadaa

 

are you saying Lord Shiva Durga Devi maa Sarasvati Sita Devi

not permanent people in eternal positions.?

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Prasad b

 

[Raguraman 0]

Hare Krishna,

 

http://66.175.7.224/taratamya_chart.htm

 

CHANDOGYA UPANISHAD gives the taratamya or gradation of the Devas.

 

http://madhva.tripod.com/Upanishad/chand/intro.htmlChapter 7

In this chapter an exposition of Bhumavidya is given. It is declared that the God designated as Satya and Bhuma is supreme and all other deities are inferior to him. To explain this doctrine of Vishnusarvottamatva the hierarchy of deities is described first. This description of Devata Taratamya begins with an interesting dialogue between Narada and Sanatkumara.

 

Narada approaches Sanatkumara for instructions. Sanatkumar asks him to mention whatever he has already studied. Narada narrates what he has already studied. He gives a long list of lores viz. Rigveda, Yajurveda, Samaveda. Atharvana, Ithihasa, Purana, the lore that deals with the manes, mathematics, the lore that deals with the deities, minerology, the original veda, Panchatantra, the lore that the deities can only know, Aranyaka, the lore that deals with the spirit, political science, astronomy, the lore that deals with the serpents and the lore that deals with the people connected with the deities. He confesses that he knows only the word aspects of all these lores but not the meaning viz. the Supreme God conveyed by them. He appeals to Sanatkumar 'Sir, I have heard that one who knows the Supreme God will cross over the sorrow. I am sorrow stricken. Kindly help me to cross over the sorrow.'

 

Sanatkumara tells him that all these lores consists of words that convey the attributes of the Supreme God, meditates upon the Supreme God present in these words i.e Nama, the abhimani deity of Nama i.e, Ushadevi, Santkumara continues to instruct Narada 'Meditate upon the Supreme God present in Vak that is superior to Nama i.e, Ushadevi, meditate upon the Supremem god present Manas i.e Parjanya that is superior to Vak, Samkalpa i.e Mitradeva. Chitta i.e Agni, Dhyana i.e, Varuna, Vijnana i.e, Chandra Bala i.e, Pravaha Vayu, Anna i.e, Aniriddha, Ap i.e, Ahankarikaprana, Tejas i.e , Purandara and kama, Akasa i.e, Umadevi, Smara i.e, Siva, Asa i.e, Bharati and Sarasvati, Prana i.e, Mukhyaprana and Chaturmukhabrahma.

 

Thus, listing the deities in their hierarchical order and instructing Narada to meditate upon the Supreme God present in these, Sanatkumara explains 'Just as the spokes of a chariot wheel are fixed in the hub, similarly, all other deities are dependent upon Mukhyaprana. He functions moved by the Supreme God present in these, Sanatkumara explains 'just as the spokes of a charriot wheel are fixed in the hub, similarly, all other deities are dependent upon Mukhyaprana, He functions, moved by the Supreme God. Mukhyaprana takes the liberated souls to the Supreme God.

 

The Supreme God designated as Satya is the highest. It is the Supreme God Satya who is to be understood. He is Vijnana i.e Jnanasvarupa, he is Mati i.e, the ground of all thinking, he is Sraddha i.e, the ground of faith, he is Kriti i.e, the source of all activity, he is Bhuma i.e, he has infinite attributes and has infinite bliss. He has to be understood as Vijnana, Mati, Sraddha etc, and finally as Bhuma.

 

When one knows the Supreme God designated as Satya, he will not see anything else as independent, will not here and understand anything else as independent, this Supreme God is designated as Bhuma i.e, Gunapurna. When one sees, hears and understands all other. All others abd the world are dependent on him. These are inferior to the Supreme God. The Supreme God who is designated as Bhuma is immortal. All others are mortal.

 

This Supreme God is founded on its own greatness. The Supreme God designated as Bhuma is below, is behind, is in front, to the South, to the North, he is near and he is infinite.

 

His Aniruddha form designated as 'Aham' is present in Jiva, his Vasudeva form designated as Atma is present every where. He who knows him in this way will love him, will have as his master and freely move in all worlds.

 

The liberated Jiva will not suffer from the death, illness or pain. By the pure food of instructions from his Gurum he obtains pure knowledge and firm memory of the God.

 

Sanatkumara revealed the Supreme God to Narada.

[Guest guest]

Sri Vakrathunda mahaakaaya kotisuryasamaprabhas

nirvighnam kurume deva subhakaryeshu sarvadaa

 

Re

(Madhvacharya's Taratamya is the answer)

May be for the followers of Madhavacharya

 

Whats the point we can go on quating different Shastras with different conclusion.If you want to know who Rudra is read siva puran.

Or listen to Krishna, Of Rudras i am Shankar.

 

I am not trying to prove if Lord Krishna is supreme or Lord Shiva.

 

Devtas are not demigod thats all

 

Jai Shree Krishna

[Guest guest]

shiva ,in vaisnava siddhanta ,is a position filled

by a jiva,becoming slightly more then a jiva. a deva.

 

sarasvati and durga are expansions of Bhagavan,

and are non different from the supreme godhead,

they are not devas, they are Female aspects of

God.

[Guest guest]

Sri Vakrathunda mahaakaaya kotisuryasamaprabhas

nirvighnam kurume deva subhakaryeshu sarvadaa

 

re

sarasvati and durga are expansions of Bhagavan,

and are non different from the supreme godhead,

they are not devas, they are Female aspects of

God.

Durga pati a jiva you are not serious are you?

 

Jai shree Krishna

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

either you are dumb or blind, re read what i said,and you copied.

[Guest guest]

HareKrishna writes -

 

"How they are not brahman. I am brahman you are brahman. Why aren't they?"

 

"Paramatma and Bhagavaan are also used for Brahma, Shiva, Ganesh etc."

 

This is my Reply -

 

There is no single or unanimous opinion about what you say. If you say you are brahman, then you are adopting Sankara's path of advaita. But then in Sankara's path, realization is more important. Mere claims are insufficient. If you have however realized that you are brahman, then you are free to proclaim this.

 

But please note that advaita is not the sole philosophy in hinduism. There are many more systems which differ from advaita, and so you cannot insist that you, I and everyone are brahman, for the other hindus have an equal right to claim that they are different from brahman - being his devotees etc.

 

As for Shiva and Ganesh being brahman, once again there is no unanimous opinion here. Advaitins consider Siva, Vishnu, Ganesh, Surya and Devi(some add Karthikeya also) to be the manifestations of brahman. Saivaites consider Siva, Vaishnavites consider Vishnu/Krishna and so on. Here again you cannot insist that Shiva and Ganesh are also brahman.

 

In the Aitareya Brahmana of the Rig Veda, in the very beginning it is said -

 

"Among all Gods, Agni is the Lowest and Vishnu is the Highest".

 

In Rig Veda 7.40.5 it is said -

 

"Thus (due to Vishnu) Rudra gained his Rudra-strength"

 

You can verify this if you want. Just two examples because you insisted on scriptural evidence.

 

However, I hasten to add that one cannot also insist that Siva and others are demi-gods. It all depends on the beliefs and the texts that one follows. For example, Saivaites consider Vishnu to be a demi-god. So if you are really interested in preaching equality of all Gods, please do so in a Saivaite forum also.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Sri Vakrathunda mahaakaaya kotisuryasamaprabhas

nirvighnam kurume deva subhakaryeshu sarvadaa

re

(either you are dumb or blind)

may be i am

 

I hope one day i get the vision to see

Durga pati Shiva, Laxmi Narayan, Srasvati Brahama

 

I pray to Shree Ganesh to remove my obstacles

 

Jai Shree Krishna

[Raguraman 0]

Hare Krishna,

 

There are many scriptural evidences for the same. Somebody has already posted it from Rig-Veda already.

 

 

Re

(Madhvacharya's Taratamya is the answer)

May be for the followers of Madhavacharya

 

 

 

This is what the Shastra says. For example read Rig Veda(7:40:5). If you really want to know what Vedas say then check it yourself.

 

Whats the point we can go on quating different Shastras with different conclusion.If you want to know who Rudra is read siva puran.

Or listen to Krishna, Of Rudras i am Shankar.

 

 

 

Here Lord Krishna is explaining his divine manifestations. To understand read the following verse.

 

Whatever is endowed with glory, brilliance, and power; know that to be a manifestation of a fraction of My splendor. (10.41)

 

Lord Krishna is not claiming identity with Lord Shiva.

Second Vedas have primary scriptural authority. Puranas that are in accordance with Vedas are considered authenticm, otherwise rejected.

 

 

I am not trying to prove if Lord Krishna is supreme or Lord Shiva.

 

Devtas are not demigod thats all

 

 

Whosoever desires to worship whatever deity (using whatever name, form, and method) with faith, I make their faith steady in that very deity. (7.21)

 

Endowed with steady faith they worship that deity, and fulfill their wishes through that deity. Those wishes are, indeed, granted only by Me. (7.22)

 

Such (material) gains of these less intelligent human beings are temporary. The worshipers of Devas go to Devas, but My devotees come to Me. (7.23)

 

Neither the Devas nor the great sages know My origin, because I am the origin of all Devas and sages also. (10.02)

 

All the above verses from Bhagavad Gita shows that Devas are demi-Gods. Upanishads and purnas establish that there is gradation among Devas. This is the truth.

[Guest guest]

though vaishnavas and saivites will not accept it, the same supreme lord is addressed by different names such as krishna, siva, karthikeya etc. the vedanta sutras do say that brahman is addressed by different names such as krishna, siva etc.

 

the lord says i am siva, i am karthikeya, i am vasudeva etc., directly in the 10th chapter of bg.

[hare_krishna 0]

It is said in Kurma puraana that one who sees Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva as different will go to bloody hell. So please be careful, you are warned now.

[Guest guest]

You cannot just quote one verse, and leave out all the rest, they are the same but at the same time different, Krishna/Vishnu doesn&#8217;t differentiate between Himself sand His devotees, that&#8217;s His greatness, but what you have said is I think for advanced thinkers.

[Guest guest]

they are the same in the task of executing the laws of sri krsna giving energy to all the people subjected to different gunas

 

but they are three different persons

 

i will go to bloody hell for other sins /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Guest guest]

 

Sri Vakrathunda mahaakaaya kotisuryasamaprabhas

nirvighnam kurume deva subhakaryeshu sarvadaa

 

Re

(Whatever is endowed with glory, brilliance, and power; know that to be a manifestation of a fraction of my splendour. (10.41)

Lord Krishna is not claiming identity with Lord Shiva.)

 

Lord Krishna is replying, to Arjuns query, in what different forms should I worship you

Lord Krishna Replies of the Adityas I am Vishnu

Of the Vedas I am sama Veda

Of the Rudras I am Shankar Of the wielders of weapons I am Rama

These are not just the Fraction off his splendour

 

Re

Second Vedas have primary scriptural authority? Puranas that are in accordance with Vedas are considered authentic, otherwise rejected.

 

Reject that and you are rejecting Sri Vyasdev

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Jagat 1]

He may have a point. The dictionary defines "demigod" as "son of a god and a mortal" or "a deified man." But the word "deva" is not interchangeable with "isvara, parameshvara," etc.

[Raguraman 0]

Hare Krishna,

 

I know in the same chapter of Bhagavad Gita, Lord Krishna mentions that he is Visnu among Adityas, Vasudeva among Vrishnis, Rama among warriors.

 

One thing we all accept is that the verses in Gita mentions the best among different categories. So I think there is no confusion that there is gradation among these different categories like Adityas, Rudras etc.

 

In Rig Veda(7:40:5) says that Rudra(Lord Shiva) gained his strength by propitiating Lord Visnu(Often Rig Veda mentions Vamana avatara while mentioning Visnu).

 

In the 10th book of Rig Veda, Vayu Sukta mentions Vayu Deva powdering and making the Visha (from the ocean that was churned) edible to Lord Siva. So Lord Shiva is even lower in Taratamya with respect to Vayu Deva.

 

Rig Veda: 10:136:7

 

vAyurasmA upAmanthat pinaSTi smA kunannamA

keshIviSasya pAtreNa yad rudreNApibat saha

 

Vayu hath churned for him: for him he poundeth things most hard to bend,

 

When he with long loose locks hath drunk, with Rudra, water from the cup.

 

Purusa Sukta clearly mentions that the Purusha is the consort of Sri(Lord Narayana).

 

"all the deities are Agni; the sacrifice is Visnu; verily he lays hold of the deities and the sacrifice; Agni is the lowest of the deities, Visnu the highest; in that he offers to Agni and Visnu on eleven potsherds, the sacrificer envelops the gods [4] on both sides and wins them." Yajur Veda 5:5:1

 

From all these verses we can see one thing that Lord Visnu is superior to any other Deva.

 

So when Lord Krishna says the He is Visnu among Adityas, he is mentioning aboout his Vamana avatar which is self-same GOD.

 

Similarly in Gita, Lord Krishna is referring to Vasudeva among Vrishnis(present avatara) and Rama among the warriors which are all his SELF-SAME avataras.

 

Even Arjuna calls Lord Krishna by the names that are UNIQUE to HIM like VISNU etc.

 

So if anybody agrees with Bhagavad Gita then one has to admit that Lord Krishna is supreme. Advaita cannot have any significance in Bhagavad Gita.