Questions about Gurunomics

[I_love_krishna_ 0]

Is it impossible to reach krishna with out a guru? Aren't we all krishna's parts, so can't we just chant the name and do what we think is right and then just give up our life and go to krishna?

 

Can we take prabhupada to be our guru? Can a guru be in heaven......... not on earth?

 

Please some one answer me!

[Guest guest]

The answer is that if you want to really get close to Krsna you will naturally want to get to close to his dear servants. Sridhara Maharaja likened this to someone seeing Mt. Everest from a distance - but if they want to approach Mt. Everest and experience it close up you will have to cross over so many other peaks which are closely associated with it. Krsna is not alone. Krsna is with his devotees, so if you really want to love and serve Krsna you should seek the company of his dear devotees.

 

Lord Chaitanya (who is none other than Krsna himself who came to teach us how to approach him and that is why his lila is sometimes referred to as Acharya-lila) taught that one should identify themselves not as Krsna's servant directly, but rather he taught us to identify ourselves as the servant of the servant of Krsna.

 

Srila Prabhupada gave the example of a big person who seems unapproachable but if you pet his dog he automatically feels some affection for you because you have shown affection to one who has has much affection for. This can be summed up as 'love me, love my dog'.

 

My Guru Maharaja has stated this concept in another very sweet way which may help you to understand this concept. He has told us that Krsna very much wants to serve his surrendered devotee but that his pure devotees refuse such service - they only want to serve. Therefore if we really want to please Krsna we can help him fulfill his desires and serve those devotees who are superlative devotees and whose every breath and thought is filled with love of Krsna.

 

I hope this helps you,

 

Your servant,

Audarya-lila dasa

[I_love_krishna_ 0]

So, Can I take srila prabhupada to be my guru? Do you have to speak to your guru directly... then I would have a problem of taking srila prabhupada as a guru, because he is not here on this earth...

 

I am still in dilemma

[Guest guest]

Sri Guru is an Immortal Being.Coming in contact with him is like coming in contact with Sri Krishna.He is Krishna's special mercy incarnation.Krishna comes to save you in the form of Sri Guru.Pray at the lotus feet of Sri Guru as a regular daily function.

[Guruvani 0]

If you read Prabhupada's books then he is your guru. If you are learning Krishna consciousness from Prabhupada's books, tapes and videos, then Prabhupada is definitely your guru. There are disciples of his that can initiate you on his behalf. They can also help you very much by giving you good instructions.

If you are sincere to have Prabhupad as your guru, then Krishna will help you fulfill your aspirations. Not to worry. Just read Prabhupada's books, watch his videos, hear his tapes, chant maha-mantra and try to associate with nice devotees and everything will fall into place.

[gHari 0]

Start preparations immediately, even before meeting your master, according to Gauranga Sri Krsna Caitanya in the Sri Caitanya-caritamrita Madhya Lila 15.103-109:<blockquote><center>gRhastha viSayI Ami, ki mora sAdhane

zrI-mukhe AjJA kara prabhu----nivedi caraNe

</CENTER>

gRhastha--householder; viSayI--materialistic man; Ami--I; ki--what; mora sAdhane--the process of my advancement in spiritual life; zrI-mukhe--from Your own mouth; AjJA kara--please order; prabhu--my Lord; nivedi caraNe--I submit unto Your lotus feet.

SatyarAja KhAn said, "My dear Lord, being a householder and a materialistic man, I do not know the process of advancing in spiritual life. I therefore submit myself unto Your lotus feet and request You to give me orders."

 

<center>

prabhu kahena,----‘kRSNa-sevA', ‘vaiSNava-sevana'

‘nirantara kara kRSNa-nAma-saGkIrtana'

</center>

prabhu kahena--the Lord replied; kRSNa-sevA--serving KRSNa; vaiSNava-sevana--abiding by the orders of VaiSNavas; nirantara--without cessation; kara--do; kRSNa-nAma-saGkIrtana--chanting of the holy name of Lord KRSNa.

SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu replied, "Without cessation continue chanting the holy name of Lord KRSNa. Whenever possible, serve Him and His devotees, the VaiSNavas."

 

<center>

satyarAja bale,----vaiSNava ciniba kemane?

ke vaiSNava, kaha tAGra sAmAnya lakSaNe

</center>

satyarAja bale--SatyarAja KhAn said; vaiSNava--a VaiSNava; ciniba kemane--how shall I recognize; ke vaiSNava--who is a VaiSNava; kaha--please say; tAGra--of him; sAmAnya lakSaNe--common symptoms.

Upon hearing this, SatyarAja said, "How can I recognize a VaiSNava? Please let me know what a VaiSNava is. What are his common symptoms?"

 

<center>

prabhu kahe,----"yAGra mukhe zuni eka-bAra

kRSNa-nAma, sei pUjya,----zreSTha sabAkAra"

</center>

prabhu kahe--Lord SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu replied; yAGra mukhe--in whose mouth; zuni--I hear; eka-bAra--once; kRSNa-nAma--the holy name of Lord KRSNa; sei pUjya--he is worshipable; zreSTha sabAkAra--the best of all human beings.

SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu replied, "Whoever chants the holy name of KRSNa just once is worshipable and is the topmost human being.

 

PURPORT

SrIla BhaktisiddhAnta SarasvatI ThAkura says that a person who simply chants the holy name of KRSNa once becomes perfect and should be regarded as a VaiSNava. This is confirmed by SrIla RUpa GosvAmI in his UpadezAmRta (5): kRSNeti yasya giri taM manasAdriyeta. With such faith in the holy name one may begin a life of KRSNa consciousness. But an ordinary person cannot chant the holy name of KRSNa with such faith. One should accept the holy name of KRSNa to be identical with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Transcendence Himself. As the Padma PurANa states, "The holy name of KRSNa is identical with KRSNa and is like a cintAmaNi gem, a touchstone. That name is KRSNa personified in sound and is therefore perfectly transcendental and eternally liberated from material contamination." Thus one should understand that the name "KRSNa" and KRSNa Himself are identical. Having such faith, one must continue to chant the holy name.

 

When one is situated on the neophyte platform, one cannot understand the devotional ingredients of a pure, unalloyed devotee. However, when the novice engages in devotional service--especially in Deity worship--and follows the order of a bona fide spiritual master, he is a pure devotee. Anyone can take advantage of hearing about KRSNa consciousness from such a devotee and thus gradually become purified. In other words, any devotee who believes that the holy name of the Lord is identical with the Lord is a pure devotee, even though he may be in the neophyte stage. By his association, others may also become VaiSNavas.

 

One is known as a materialistic devotee if he simply worships the Deity of Hari with faith but does not show proper respect to the devotees and to others. This is stated in SrImad-BhAgavatam (11.2.47):

<center>

arcAyAm eva haraye pUjAM yaH zraddhayehate

na tad-bhakteSu cAnyeSu sa bhaktaH prAkRtaH smRtaH

</center>

Yet even by associating with such a neophyte devotee, one can become a devotee also. When Lord Caitanya was teaching SanAtana GosvAmI, He said:

<center>

zraddhAvAn jana haya bhakti-adhikArI

‘uttama', ‘madhyama', ‘kaniSTha'----zraddhA-anusArI

yAhAra komala-zraddhA, se ‘kaniSTha' jana

krame krame teGho bhakta ha-ibe ‘uttama'

rati-prema-tAratamye bhakta-taratama

</center>

"A person who has attained firm faith is a real candidate for advancing in KRSNa consciousness. According to the faith, there are first-class, second-class and neophyte devotees. One who has preliminary faith is called a kaniSTha-adhikArI, or a neophyte. The neophyte, however, can become an advanced devotee if he strictly follows the regulative principles set down by the spiritual master. Therefore it is on the basis of faith and attachment to KRSNa that one can judge who is a madhyama-adhikArI or an uttama-adhikArI." (Cc. Madhya 22.64, 69, 71)

 

It is thus concluded that even a neophyte devotee is superior to the karmIs and jJAnIs because he has full faith in chanting the holy name of the Lord. A karmI or a jJAnI, regardless of his greatness, has no faith in Lord ViSNu, His holy name or His devotional service. One may be advanced religiously, but if he is not trained in devotional service, he has very little credit on the transcendental platform. Even a neophyte devotee engaged in Deity worship in accordance with the regulations set forth by the spiritual master is in a position superior to that of the fruitive worker and speculative philosopher.

 

<center>

"eka kRSNa-nAme kare sarva-pApa kSaya

nava-vidhA bhakti pUrNa nAma haite haya

</center>

eka kRSNa-nAme--one holy name of KRSNa; kare--can do; sarva-pApa--of all sinful reactions; kSaya--destruction; nava-vidhA--nine processes; bhakti--of devotional service; pUrNa--complete; nAma haite--simply by chanting the holy name; haya--are.

"Simply by chanting the holy name of KRSNa once, a person is relieved from all the reactions of a sinful life. One can complete the nine processes of devotional service simply by chanting the holy name.

 

PURPORT

The nine types of devotional service are mentioned in SrImad-BhAgavatam (7.5.23):

<center>

zravaNaM kIrtanaM viSNoH smaraNaM .-sevanam

arcanaM vandanaM dAsyaM sakhyam Atma-nivedanam

iti puMsArpitA viSNau bhaktiz cen nava-lakSaNA

kriyeta bhagavaty addhA tan manye 'dhItam uttamam

</center>

"The process of devotional service entails hearing, chanting and remembering the holy name, form, pastimes, qualities and entourage of the Lord, offering service according to the time, place and performer, worshiping the Deity, offering prayers, always considering oneself the eternal servant of KRSNa, making friends with Him and dedicating everything unto Him. These nine items of devotional service, when directly offered to KRSNa, constitute the highest attainment of life. This is the verdict of the revealed scriptures."

 

As for being freed from all sinful reactions by chanting the holy name of KRSNa only once, one must chant the holy name without committing any offenses. Then chanting one name is sufficient to rescue a living being from all sinful reactions. Such a person who chants the holy name of the Lord offenselessly is very important and worshipable. Indeed, the nine devotional processes, beginning with zravaNa and kIrtana, can all be attained at once if one simply chants the holy name of the Lord offenselessly.

 

In this regard, SrIla JIva GosvAmI states in his book Bhakti-sandarbha (173): yadyapi anyA bhaktiH kalau kartavyA, tadA; kIrtanAkhya-bhakti-saMyogenaiva. Out of the nine processes of devotional service, kIrtana is very important. SrIla JIva GosvAmI therefore instructs that the other processes, such as arcana, vandana, dAsya and sakhya, should be executed, but they must be preceded and followed by kIrtana, the chanting of the holy name. We have therefore introduced this system in all of our centers. Arcana, Arati, bhoga offering, Deity dressing and decoration are all preceded and followed by the chanting of the holy name of the Lord--Hare KRSNa, Hare KRSNa, KRSNa KRSNa, Hare Hare/ Hare RAma, Hare RAma, RAma RAma, Hare Hare.

 

 

<center>

dIkSA-purazcaryA-vidhi apekSA nA kare

jihvA-sparze A-caNDAla sabAre uddhAre

</center>

dIkSA--initiation; purazcaryA--activities before initiation; vidhi--regulative principles; apekSA--reliance on; nA--not; kare--does; jihvA--the tongue; sparze--by touching; A-caNDAla--even the lowest of men, the caNDAla; sabAre--everyone; uddhAre--delivers.

"One does not have to undergo initiation or execute the activities required before initiation. One simply has to vibrate the holy name with his lips. Thus even a man in the lowest class [caNDAla] can be delivered.

 

PURPORT

<font color="blue">SrIla JIva GosvAmI explains dIkSA in his Bhakti-sandarbha (283):

<center>

divyaM jJAnaM yato dadyAt kuryAt pApasya saGkSayam

tasmAt dIkSeti sA proktA dezikais tattva-kovidaiH

</center>

"DIkSA is the process by which one can awaken his transcendental knowledge and vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity. A person expert in the study of the revealed scriptures knows this process as dIkSA."</font> The regulative principles of dIkSA are explained in the Hari-bhakti-vilAsa (2.3–4) and the Bhakti-sandarbha (283). As stated:

<center>

dvijAnAm anupetAnAM svakarmAdhyayanAdiSu

yathAdhikAro nAstIha syAc copanayanAd anu

tathAtrAdIkSitAnAM tu mantra-devArcanAdiSu

nAdhikAro 'sty ataH kuryAd AtmAnaM ziva-saMstutam

</center>

"Even though born in a brAhmaNa family, one cannot engage in Vedic rituals without being initiated and having a sacred thread. Although born in a brAhmaNa family, one becomes a brAhmaNa only after initiation and the sacred thread ceremony. Unless one is initiated as a brAhmaNa, one cannot worship the holy name properly."

 

<font color="blue">According to the VaiSNava regulative principles, one must be initiated as a brAhmaNa. The Hari-bhakti-vilAsa (2.6) quotes the following injunction from the ViSNu-yAmala:

<center>

adIkSitasya vAmoru kRtaM sarvaM nirarthakam

pazu-yonim avApnoti dIkSA-virahito janaH

</center>

"‘Unless one is initiated by a bona fide spiritual master, all his devotional activities are useless. A person who is not properly initiated can descend again into the animal species.'"</font>

 

Hari-bhakti-vilAsa (2.10) further quotes:

<center>

ato guruM praNamyaivaM sarva-svaM vinivedya ca

gRhNIyAd vaiSNavaM mantraM dIkSA-pUrvaM vidhAnataH

</center>

"‘It is the duty of every human being to surrender to a bona fide spiritual master. Giving him everything--body, mind and intelligence--one must take VaiSNava initiation from him.'"

 

The Bhakti-sandarbha (298) gives the following quotation from the Tattva-sAgara:

<center>

yathA kAJcanatAM yAti kAMsyaM rasa-vidhAnataH

tathA dIkSA-vidhAnena dvijatvaM jAyate nRNAm

</center>

"‘By chemical manipulation, bell metal is turned into gold when touched by mercury; similarly, when a person is properly initiated, he can acquire the qualities of a brAhmaNa.'"

 

The Hari-bhakti-vilAsa (17.11–12), in discussing the purazcaryA process, quotes the following verses from the Agastya-saMhitA:

<center>

pUjA traikAlikI nityaM japas tarpaNam eva ca

homo brAhmaNa-bhuktiz ca purazcaraNam ucyate

guror labdhasya mantrasya prasAdena yathA-vidhi

paJcAGgopAsanA-siddhyai puraz caitad vidhIyate

</center>

"‘In the morning, afternoon and evening one should worship the Deity, chant the Hare KRSNa mantra, offer oblations, perform a fire sacrifice and feed the brAhmaNas. These five activities constitute purazcaryA. To attain full success when taking initiation from the spiritual master, one should first perform these purazcaryA processes.'"

 

The word puraH means "before," and caryA means "activities." Due to the necessity of these activities, we do not immediately initiate disciples in the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. For six months, a candidate for initiation must first attend Arati and classes in the zAstras, practice the regulative principles and associate with other devotees. When one is actually advanced in the purazcaryA-vidhi, he is recommended by the local temple president for initiation. It is not that anyone can be suddenly initiated without meeting the requirements. When one is further advanced by chanting the Hare KRSNa mantra sixteen rounds daily, following the regulative principles and attending classes, he receives the sacred thread (brahminical recognition) after the second six months.

 

In the Hari-bhakti-vilAsa (17.4–5, 7) it is stated:

<center>

vinA yena na siddhaH syAn mantro varSa-zatair api

kRtena yena labhate sAdhako vAJchitaM phalam

 

purazcaraNa-sampanno mantro hi phala-dhAyakaH

ataH puraSkriyAM kuryAt mantra-vit siddhi-kaGkSayA

 

puraSkriyA hi mantrANAM pradhAnaM vIryam ucyate

vIrya-hIno yathA dehI sarva-karmasu na kSamaH

purazcaraNa-hIno hi tathA mantraH prakIrtitaH

</center>

"Without performing the purazcaryA activities, one cannot become perfect even by chanting this mantra for hundreds of years. But one who has undergone the purazcaryA-vidhi process can attain success very easily. If one wishes to perfect his initiation, he must first undergo the purazcaryA activities. The purazcaryA process is the life force by which one is successful in chanting the mantra. Without the life force, one cannot do anything; similarly, without the life force of purazcaryA-vidhi, no mantra can be perfected."

 

<font color="blue">In his Bhakti-sandarbha (283–84), SrIla JIva GosvAmI describes the importance of Deity worship and initiation (dIkSA) as follows:

<center>

AvazyakatvaM nAsti, tad vinApi zaraNApattyAdInAm ekatareNApi puruSArtha-siddher abhihitatvAt, tathApi zrI-nAradAdi-vartmAnusaradbhiH zrI-bhagavatA saha sambandha-vizeSaM dIkSA-vidhAnena zrI-guru-caraNa-sampAditaM cikIrSadbhiH kRtAyAM dIkSAyAm arcanam avazyaM kriyetaiva.

yadyapi svarUpato nAsti, tathApi prAyaH svabhAvato dehAdi-sambandhena kadarya-zIlAnAM vikSipta-cittAnAM janAnAM tat-tat-saGkocI-karaNAya zrImad-RSi-prabhRtibhir atrArcana-mArge kvacit kvacit kAcit kAcin maryAdA sthApitAsti.

</center>

"It is SrImad-BhAgavatam's opinion that the process of Deity worship is not actually necessary, just as the specific prescriptions of the PaJcarAtra and other scriptures do not have to be followed. The BhAgavatam enjoins that even without practicing Deity worship one can achieve the complete success of human life by any of the other devotional processes, such as simply offering oneself at the Lord's feet for His protection. Nonetheless, VaiSNavas following the path of SrI NArada and his successors endeavor to establish a personal relationship with the Lord by receiving the grace of a bona fide spiritual master through initiation, and in this tradition the devotees are obliged at the time of initiation to begin engaging in Deity worship.

 

"Although Deity worship is not essential, the material conditioning of most candidates for devotional service requires that they engage in this activity. When we consider their bodily and mental conditions, we find that the character of such candidates is impure and their minds are agitated. Therefore, to rectify this material conditioning the great sage NArada and others have at different times recommended various kinds of regulations for Deity worship."</font>

 

Similarly, the RAmArcana-candrikA states:

<center>

vinaiva dIkSAM viprendra purazcaryAM vinaiva hi

vinaiva nyAsa-vidhinA japa-mAtreNa siddhi-dA

</center>

"O best of the brAhmaNas, even without initiation, preliminary purification or acceptance of the renounced order, one can attain perfection in devotional service simply by chanting the Lord's holy name."

 

In other words, the chanting of the Hare KRSNa mahA-mantra is so powerful that it does not depend on official initiation, but if one is initiated and engages in paJcarAtra-vidhi (Deity worship), his KRSNa consciousness will awaken very soon, and his identification with the material world will be vanquished. The more one is freed from material identification, the more one can realize that the spirit soul is qualitatively as good as the Supreme Soul. At such a time, when one is situated on the absolute platform, one can understand that the holy name of the Lord and the Lord Himself are identical. At that stage of realization, the holy name of the Lord, the Hare KRSNa mantra, cannot be identified with any material sound. If one accepts the Hare KRSNa mahA-mantra as a material vibration, he falls down. One should worship and chant the holy name of the Lord by accepting it as the Lord Himself. One should therefore be initiated properly according to revealed scriptures under the direction of a bona fide spiritual master. Although chanting the holy name is good for both the conditioned and liberated soul, it is especially beneficial to the conditioned soul because by chanting it one is liberated. When a person who chants the holy name is liberated, he attains the ultimate perfection by returning home, back to Godhead. In the words of SrI Caitanya-caritAmRta (Adi 7.73):

<center>

kRSNa-mantra haite habe saMsAra-mocana

kRSNa-nAma haite pAbe kRSNera caraNa

</center>

"Simply by chanting the holy name of KRSNa one can obtain freedom from material existence. Indeed, simply by chanting the Hare KRSNa mantra one will be able to see the lotus feet of the Lord."

 

<font color="blue">The offenseless chanting of the holy name does not depend on the initiation process.</font> Although initiation may depend on purazcaryA or purazcaraNa, the actual chanting of the holy name does not depend on purazcaryA-vidhi, or the regulative principles. If one chants the holy name even once without committing an offense, he attains all success. During the chanting of the holy name, the tongue must work. Simply by chanting the holy name, one is immediately delivered. The tongue is sevonmukha-jihvA--it is controlled by service. One whose tongue is engaged in tasting material things and also talking about them cannot use the tongue for absolute realization.

<center>

ataH zrI-kRSNa-nAmAdi na bhaved grAhyam indriyaiH

sevonmukhe hi jihvAdau svayam eva sphuraty adaH

[bRS. 1.2.234]

</center>

"With the material senses one cannot understand the transcendental holy name of the Lord or His form, activities and pastimes. But when one actually engages in devotional service, utilizing the tongue, the Lord is revealed." As it is said in the Caitanya-caritAmRta (Madhya 17.134):

<center>

ataeva kRSNera ‘nAma', ‘deha', ‘vilAsa',

prAkRtendriya-grAhya nahe, haya sva-prakAza

</center>

"The holy name of KRSNa, His body and His pastimes cannot be understood by the blunt material senses. They are manifested independently."

 

<center>

anuSaGga-phale kare saMsArera kSaya

citta AkarSiyA karAya kRSNe premodaya

</center>

anuSaGga-phale--as a simultaneous result; kare--does; saMsArera kSaya--annihilation of entanglement in the material world; citta--thought; AkarSiyA--attracting; karAya--causes; kRSNe--unto Lord KRSNa; prema-udaya--arousal of transcendental love.

 

"By chanting the holy name of the Lord, one dissolves his entanglement in material activities. After this, one becomes very much attracted to KRSNa, and thus dormant love for KRSNa is awakened.

</blockquote>

[Guest guest]

guru has to be a person that we can approach with questions and receive direct answers

 

and generally speaking

 

we cannot have a complete reciprocation with anyone who is in vaikuntaloka

 

plus

 

it is possible to understand the meaning of the message of the previous acharyas only with the help of another acharya, who can adapt the instructions of krsna, gauranga, bhaktivinoda, bhaktisiddhanta, prabhupada to our own and exclusive situation

 

plus

 

verses collections and computer encyclopedies (folio) cannot help... to fully understand a pure devotee, another pure devotee is necessary

 

we can see what is now the church, the muslims and, if things does not changes, the iskcon.... all for lack or scarcity of pure devotees of sri krsna

 

the books are there but the real siddhanta is not

 

sorry for my terrific english :-)

[theist 1]

verses collections and computer encyclopedies (folio) cannot help... to fully understand a pure devotee, another pure devotee is necessary<<

 

Or become one oneself. Prabhupada is in his commentaries. But unless we surrender to the instructions therein we will never understand a pure devotee.

 

We can be in a roomful of such souls but unless we have our own realization we won't appreciate them. It's never enough to just identify in some way with a pure soul or their particular mission. We can mentally track sadhus one after another for life after life, but until we allow the heart to change we will always be in the ultimate sense, outsiders

 

 

 

 

[I_love_krishna_ 0]

sigh~ I can't find a guru in this day and age... so, i guess i will never reach my krishna /images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[raga 0]

 

I can't find a guru in this day and age...

 

 

Why not?

 

 

so, i guess i will never reach my krishna

 

 

How can you reach Him if you don't have faith in Him? Why is it so difficult for Him to arrange for a nice guru for you? His plenary portion breathes in and out and countless universes are created and destroyed. How strange if He cannot figure out how to send you to a proper guru -- if you so desire.

[theist 1]

God is your guru. He lives in your heart. How can anyone say they have no guru?

 

second thing -He has manifested Himself as shastra.

 

third thing- He has manifested in the commentaries on the shastras written by self-realized souls.

 

fourth thing -He has manifested as the self-realized souls.

 

So you must ask yourself if you are looking for guru or a body with a guru in it.

 

They can all be helpful. Best to make use of the guru's you can presently recognize. The Lord in the heart will manifest Himself in so many ways to help us if we are sincere.

 

If you want some conditioned souls, as an instituiton or not, to point someone out to you and say "There is your guru" you will find many who will oblige. Of course, you may end up getting cheated.

 

Best to ask the Lord in the heart to direct you. We may not be able to hear Paramatma but He can hear us.

[Guruvani 0]

You will never reach Krishna unless Krishna wants to reach you. Don't worry about trying to reach Krishna. Just try to please him and he will reach out for you. Do you have the eyes to see guru if the guru comes before you? The Guru could be very near you but do you have the qualifications to recognize him? With thousands of devotees around the movement,are you saying that you cannot see Krishna working through any of them? Are you saying that there is not a devotee on the planet that is duly initiated into the parampara and capable of initiating you into the parampara?

 

The guru could have appeared to you in the post just previous to the one before this one, but do you have the qualifications to see what is guru?

[gHari 0]

I can't believe anyone would still be down after reading that wonderful advice from Sri Caitanya Himself.

 

Follow that advice and your feet will take you to Sri Guru, as his feet take him to you. Nityananda Prabhu has already manifested in your heart as Caitya-guru. He will arrange everything.

 

In a lecture, Srila Prabhupada illustrates our plight:<blockquote>So KRSNa, when instructs from within the heart, He is called caitya-guru. And that caitya-guru is expanded by the process, personal presentation of spiritual master. So both ways He is helping us. KRSNa is so kind. Guru-kRSNa-kRpA. KRSNa is helping from within, but sometimes we are so dull, naturally, that we cannot understand. Therefore He sends His representative to instruct externally. So He is helping internally and externally. There is no difference between the internal and external instructor. We should take advantage of this instruction. That is called vyavasAyAtmikA buddhiH, fixed-up resolution. Fixed-up resolution. If we become fixed up in this resolution, that "Whatever we have heard from my guru, the representative of KRSNa, I must execute. I do not care for my personal convenience or inconvenience. This is my life and soul," then your life is perfect. Then your life is... If I make some amendment, addition, alteration, in the name of KRSNa, guru, then it is spoiled. No. We should receive the instruction as it is.</blockquote>

 

gHari

[Guest guest]

ETERNALLY UNDER THE

GURU’S DISCIPLINE

Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami-------

Bhagavan descends in the form of words.

That is krsna-kath, because krsna-kath and

Krishna are nondifferent. So, Krishna descends

in the form of this kath&, and the hearing

of this krsna-kath is eternal. In other

words, isyatva, discipleship, is eternal, because

one who hears is a disciple. The isya

hears, or does ravanam, and the guru does

kirtana, or speaks. So, the guru’s kirtana is eternal

and the isya’s hearing is eternal. “I am

eternally the servant, or disciple, of my guru.”

With this mood or attitude there is no question

of pride. Rather, surrender and humility

will be there. One should be disciplined by

the guru. “Unless I am being disciplined by

guru I will act whimsically. Pride will develop

in me. That means a demoniac attitude will

be there. I will become a demon instead of a

devotee or a vaisnava.” So, this discipline is eternal.

“My guru is inflicting discipline on me

eternally, and I am eternally his disciple.”

What I speak is a very, very serious, deep and

subtle philosophy. It is not superfluous. This

isyatva, discipleship, is eternal. “I should be

disciplined eternally. The guru inflicts discipline

on me.” To remain a disciple means to remain

under discipline. Unless he catches hold of my

ear and slaps me, how can I become humble?

How can I surrender or dedicate myself?”

From : www.gopaljiu.org

[I_love_krishna_ 0]

Even he says it :

 

"‘Unless one is initiated by a bona fide spiritual master, all his devotional activities are useless. A person who is not properly initiated can descend again into the animal species.'" -by Chaitanya Mahaprabhu

 

And either one finds the "Bona fide" spiritual master to go to krishna, Or one can sit and chant 24/7.

 

No one can chant 24/7, but we can go to krishna by karma yoga, then that would mean I need a "Bona fide" spiritual master.

 

Guruvani says it can be one from vaikunta, the other guest says it can not be from vaikunta! how the heck am I going to reach krishna when the devotees themselves contradict each other.

 

And no, I am not blessed with the eyes of the seeker, cuz I just don't think I am. So, I am scared that I will be cheated upon.

 

Getting along with the "rightful devotees", is not possible, because no one lives around where I live.

 

So the whole thing is impossible!

 

I guess I just have to go through all those species again. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[raga 0]

 

And either one finds the "Bona fide" spiritual master to go to krishna, Or one can sit and chant 24/7.

 

No one can chant 24/7, but we can go to krishna by karma yoga, then that would mean I need a "Bona fide" spiritual master.

 

 

I guess the question is, do you want to have one? "When there is a will there is a way", they say. No will - no way.

 

 

 

Guruvani says it can be one from vaikunta, the other guest says it can not be from vaikunta! how the heck am I going to reach krishna when the devotees themselves contradict each other.

 

 

Well, you cannot possibly depend on the opinions of each and every individual. Why don't you rather get your hands on some of the writings of the acaryas which describe the theology of guru.

[Jagadananda 0]

I think you are looking for a simple yes or no answer. I will give it to you. Yes, Srila Prabhupada can be your guru under the very conditions that Guruvani stated in an earlier post. I pray that you will have some peace.

 

Jagadananda

[Guest guest]

bin laden also says that allah speaks in his heart

 

and this is the same thing that george bush has said to the Pope asking not to make iraq war (christ is asking me to save iraq)

 

if we are conditioned we cannot understant what is there in our heart

 

i do not say that is easy and that taking a formal initiation o entering in an organization is enough.... the emphasis (like in all vaishnavism) is in siksa... (=make questions,listen, learn, apply in your life)

 

but the guru has to see krishna (madhurya lila, guna, rupa, namnam) directly... no conditioned souls are allowed!!

 

if we chant hare krishna, we are asking service, if we are serious and sincere, krishna sends us a perfect soul to render service to...........a he, as said in guruvastakam, is a helper of the gopis, he takes our service, offers to the gopis, they offers it to radharani, then she gives to krsna.... in this way our service goes to krsna... obviously this "passage of services" is also inside the parampara (guru, prabupad, bhaktisiddhanta, gaurakishora, bhaktivinoda ecc.)

[I_love_krishna_ 0]

I have no "ISKON" where I live. Its non existent for me.

 

I heard about ISKON when I went to India and then when I was coming back home, a guy who sat next to me was a ISKON guy.

 

There are no temples, no devotees, no vaishnavas where I live, I live in Long Island, no ISKON there.

 

And also, my parents are overprotective of me, they don't let me go anywhere. So how the heck am I going to get a guru?

 

I want to get a guru though, but its impossible.

Thats the reason I asked if prabhupada could be my guru, but then there is another question about mental speculation.

 

For instance, take people who become really delusional about religion that they do it completely wrong, due to "conditioning of the soul" . well, i don't want to turn out like that.

 

I know , this stuff always sounds like dealing with "I". but its a real problem.

 

[Guest guest]

obviously iskcon is not the only way

 

the only solution i can give is to chant hare krishna, this will attract krsna's attention and He will arrange for your desires

 

of course if you can have some holidays to reach a temple and associate with devotees would be very good

 

prabhupada is your guru because he lives in his instruction, but guru means a person who answers on specific questions about choosing a specific path between the infinite ones proposed by shastra

 

a way to avoid a kind of mental speculation is to think about prabhupada's statement "chant hare krsna and be happy"

 

it does not means, if we chant hare krsna we (without efforts, in no time, making offenses) will be happy.. but chant hare krsna and be happy and sure that this is the system to get out from the entanglements of this material world

 

my gurumaharaja says that doubts are impossible to remove or solve... if one goes, one thousand come.... so do not worry too much on your "conditioned" state, there's only a way to get out.. krsna... never forget that he is ready to listen to your prayers and chanting in any moment

[Guruvani 0]

Your parents are not "overprotective"; they are protective. When you are mature they will be glad to grant you the independence that you seek. Be patient and allow yourself the time to grow and muture. Your parents love you greatly and should not be burdened with your youthful passions.

Do not try to approach Krishna passionatly. You will make too much trouble for your family that way. You have your whole life ahead of you to make your own decisions and do as you please.

You are just a youth. Be patient to accept a spiritual master. Do not jump into this passionately as if you have no patience to wait for the proper time when you are of legal age as an adult.

There is no magic transformation through formal initiation. It will not solve all your problems or make you pure automatically. There is so much available on the internet and through mail-order etc. that you can have to cultivate your Krishna consciousness until you are old enough to leave your parents and join a temple. There are websites with Prabhupada lectures, Prabhupada kirtans and bhajans, you can download all of Prabhupada's books for free. You can download pictures and associate with devotees through email and forums.

Then when the time is ripe, you can make the break from your parents (age 18) and go to live in a temple that you have thoroughly researched and found acceptable.

Do not passionately rush into Krishna consciousness. Be patient and cultivate the mode of Goodness which will get you through the waiting phase till your time has come.

 

You are being too impatient and passionate to prematurely accept a spiritual master when you are still just a youth in need of growth and maturity to make the right decision about accepting a guru.

[raga 0]

Indeed, I second the words of Guruvani. Be patient. In waiting for an appropriate circumstances to arise, associate with Vaishnavas and learn the devotional conclusions through and through. Study the scriptures and inquire from learned Vaishnavas when in doubt. Your time will not be wasted.

[I_love_krishna_ 0]

I guess I have to graduate high school, go to college and then marry and then get a Job and then think about a Guru. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Long time...

 

I will take prabhupada as my abstract guru i guess.

 

 

[gHari 0]

Perhaps finish high school. Who knows what Krsna has in mind?

[Guruvani 0]

Personally, I do not think that you need to wait till marriage and college to think about accepting a guru. Once you are 18 you can legally conduct yourself as an adult without parental oversight.

College and marriage can be good or it can be bad. Especially, the marriage part would be bad if you married a non-devotee. You need make sure that you do, even if it means going against the wishes of your parents. There are many nice devotee boys that you should consider for a husband. If your parents are not proper Vaisnavas who would help find you a nice Vaishnava husband then at the legal age you should make your own choice and consult other devotees around the movement to help you find a good devotee husband. Do not let your parents force you into a marriage with a non-devotee who does not have similar spiritual affiliations as yourself. When you turn 18 you can accept a spiritual master who can also help arrange for a suitable husband for you from the devotee section.

However, you must learn more about the movement and the options you have in accepting a spiritual master before you jump into initiation and such an important decision.

 

If you marry a non-devotee, how could you be happy? College is a possibility. But marring a non-devotee would be unfortunate.

 

I have a very handsome son who is very bright and would make a good husband for some nice girl someday. He is big and strong and a computer wiz. He has been raised with Krishna consciosness his whole life and professes himself to be a devotee. I took him out of public High School in his sophomore year to do home schooling as I don't like the influences of public High School. He is good boy, though he does need some formal training in Krishna consciosness that I have not been so strict to apply.

Anyway, you should not settle for anyone except a devotee husband, even if your parents say otherwise. This is where you must think for yourself and use your American freedoms to make the right choice.