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Amoghalila's revelations

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Fearing offenses, I too found the 'words' of Prabhupada unlike those to which I'd become accustomed to in his conversations and lectures. I also considered the 'medium is the message' and noticed that the good news was not spread through 'unbiased channels', but rather through, how shall we say, colored carriers.


I won't be reading any more than I have, which was just enough to get suspicious and bored. There are still many wonderful things to read by the Vaishnavas. If I am to read, then let it reach my soul.

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Rather than simply just opinions (which of course, are also greatly appreciated); I was hoping for some facts relating to Amoghalila's devotional history, his relationship to Srila Prabhupada, and any other facts that might authenticate these revelations.


Also, if anyone knows of other devotees who know Amoghalila personally, I would also be interested in knowing who they are, so that I could contact them.


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IMO your approach to autheniticate these revelations by seeking opinions about Amogha-lila are too external to really be of much help. Next you will have to solicit opinions on the lives of those who offered their opinons. I mean how can you trust their opinion of Amogha-lila? See what I mean its endless and will never be free from doubt.


Anyway I won't attempt to pass judgemnt on either Amogha-lila or his revelations but I will say he is a very brave preacher of Krsna consciousness. He preaches in PAKISTAN.


In Hrishikesh, I met a Pakistani devotee who came to Krsna consciousness through Amogha-lila's preaching efforts. This person held Amogha-lila in very high esteem indeed and felt gratitude towards him.


Of course that speaks alot of his good works and courageous preaching but doesn't say anything about the paper in question.


Cross-check everything with Prabhupada's books. The transmission of Krsna Consciousness from one soul to another is present on every page. Try it. Everything in these books is about developing Krsna Consciousness and giving Him to others.


We can be sure that at the last stage of his life Srila Prabhupada didn't suddenly decide to contradict everything he had written over the previous years. Nor would he give any post samadhi revelations that would contradict his writings. Just my opinion.


All these squabbles over ritvik and elected gurus vs. self-effulgent acaryas and how the parampara continues can be straightened out for oneself by reading Prabhupada's books.


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I recall during the mid-80's there was one "zonal acarya" who consulted with his top men (TP's and sannyasis) involving a major decision (property and finances, I believe), and the feedback he received from them contradicted his own desires regarding this decision. Still, he agreed to go along with them since they seemed to be unanimous. The next day he had another meeting and told his men that he had a dream the previous night and that he was instructed personally by Srila Prabhupada on what to do. Apparently, the 'dream' instructions coincided with the zonal acarya's desires and as a result, he was able to overthrow the decision made by his leading men merely by telling them about this dream. Whether the dream was true or not, I don't know.


As far as Amogha-Lila, I vaguely recall that he had some sort of dream(s) back around '79 or '80 regarding the new setup of the zonal-acarya system. I never got to read an account of those dreams. However, a friend who had heard some details about this never mentioned the word "ritvik", and I don't know how his prior dream(s) would match up to the dream he had recently. My own opinion on the matter is that Srila Prabhupada can surely visit his disciples via a dream. However, if any instruction is imparted, it would seem to me that it would be of a personal nature, similar to Srila Bhaktisiddanta Sarasvati coming to Srila Prabhupada in a dream and telling him he should take sannyasa and preach.


Regardless, the bottom line is that we must abide by Guru, Sastra, and Sadhu. Theist has already explained this. We can't just toss Srila Prabhupada's books aside as well as the advice of Sadhus based upon someone's 'dream', which becomes all the more suspect being that there is an agenda involved, (perhaps not on his part, but definitely for those who advocate a post-samadhi ritvik system, as evidenced by Pita's rah-rah post above.)


Sorry that I don't have any further knowledge regarding Amogha-lila. I never knew him personally. I believe he has spent much time overseas. You might be hard-pressed to find anyone here who knew him well. And even if you do find someone who knew him or knows him, as Theist wisely pointed out, how could you trust their opinions of him? The only way to know with certainty that Amogha-lila's dreams are bona fide and meant for everyone is to ask Srila Prabhupada himself, personally. But alas, his vapuh instructions are no longer available. Hence we are back to square one, and Srila Prabhupada has stated (in 1977, the year of his Disappearance), that everything he wanted to say is in his books.


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I've met Amogha-lila. He's intelligent, sincere (as far as I can tell), and, as mentioned above, a courageous preacher. I remember hearing abouthis dreams in '79 or '80, too. I saw his "transcripts" of the dreams. They dealt, as I remember, with the zonal-acharya system and its excesses: big vyasasanas, guru-pujas, and all that stuff. There was, as I rmember it, no hint of the ritvik idea. In fact, I was unaware of such an idea until the late '80s, when it was advocated by devotees such as Nityananda, Rupa-vilasa, and Karnamrita.


I agree that it's much more likely that dreams are more likely to deal with personal issues, such as Srila Prabhupada's sannyasa. They're entirely subjective, impossible to verify. Pita das says, "Sounds like Prabhupada to me!" But anyone who's a good writer could approximate Srila Prabhupada's voice in writing. His syntax and diction are second nature to those of us who have spent countless hours listening to him in person and on tape and reading his books.


My vote goes for the books. If he had meant to change course so radically from what he taught throughout his career, he would have made it so explicit that no one could have missed it.


That's not to say I believe he was delighted with us at the end. I've heard from more than one devotee who was around Srila Prabhupada in '77 that he was not satisfied with our advancement (in general).

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I was in Bombay temple in April of 1978 when Amogaleela one day told the devottees that Srila Prabhupada appeared him.

At the time I felt well that seemed impossible and that seemed to be the only way he was able to express dis satatifaction with the way our god brothers were about to lead the Society.

These new revelations tho are not rivict revelations like were comming from KK camp this is much diffrent.


It would be nice if the devottees in leading places took Amogaleelas revelations into consideration,they are very simular to what I heard His Divine Grace speaking about in Vrindaban in the last few weeks.


Everything was recorded then remenber and everything recored was at one time placed into the Radha Dammodarra Tape Minsrty in Houston by HH Tamal Krishna Goswami and not sent into the BBT acrhives.

These tapes started the RD Tape minstry Im am now speaking with Sankarsan Das Prabhu who then showed me all of these tapes.

To see if they still exsit or what happened to them ,if not.?

He says he will look for them ?

He hasnt confirmed remenbering thier exsitance?

What Amoga is revealing here isnt rivict just Guru Tattva

and his point are very clear and should be compempated wiether Srila Prabhupada has spoken then directly as Amoga Prabhu says or understands Srila Prabhupada to want them so.

On my one and only meeting of Srila Sridhar Maharaja I asked His Divine Grace a question on preaching to the Buddhist people and the appearence of Lord Buddha ?

How should we are devottees present Krishna Concsiousness to the Chinese people.

Srila Sridhar Maharaja told me that he would have to ask his guru maharaja these questions and that I should return back the next day for the answers.

Bhavanada Told us if we return back to see Srila Sridhar we would have to leave Mayapur so we never got Srila Sridhar Maharajas answer ?

So Much for the Rah Rahs this is above that by now prabhujis dont you think?



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Fine. I understand that. I also know other devotees who have had Srila Prabhupada's company--one was the very night Srila Prabhupada left. They also have no sense that these visits were dreams. Nevertheless, in evey case except Amogha's the visits (or visions, or whatever) are personal, private, confidentia, as Srila prabhupada's was. Amogha's have Srila Prabhupada telling him to turn a whole society around. I think you'll have to admit that's more problematic.


I don't question Amogha's integrity or sincerity. I have no problem admitting that he is more surrendered and advanced than I am. I'm just saying we should be careful when dealing with something so subjective. Srila Prabhupada taught us nothing if not to strictly follow gur, sadhu, and shastra.

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I'm amazed to read this thread. I don't quite know what to make of Amoghalila's "revelations," but it would be very nice if Srila Prabhupada is communicating these "new" instructions, only time will tell if they are true or not.


But I am so foolish and degraded that I do not know what are Srila Prabhupada's instructions on this matter. In fact, I do not know his instructions on any matter. I am so foolish and stupid and so dullheaded that even after all these years of being in ISKCON and reading his books artificially, not even one word has entered into my ears. I don't know what to do about this, so I am just wanting to associate with all the devotees of Sri Krishna. I want to fall at your feet in absolute hopelessness with the secret desire that you may raise me up and teach me the eternal truths of Krishna Consciousness. I need this association, I am so desperate for help that I beg for it everywhere. Please have mercy on me.

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I don't know, but through the whole transcript, I was especially affected by this part:



You ask, "Can Srila Prabhupada still initiate disciples?" Yes, why I cannot initiate? You think I am dead? No, you must know I am alive on my vyasasana. Just as when I was sitting on it in flesh. My murti is non-different from my flesh body. My murti is me, in as much as my body is me. You talk to me on the vyasasana, and I hear you. And, you become a little purified, you will also hear me reply you. So if you accept my murti is non-different from me, why you say I cannot initiate?"



Although I am aware of what the possible issues can arise from this statement regarding initiation etc. I feel that I can wholeheartedly agree with the statement that Srila Prabhupada is alive and sitting on the vyasasana just as he must have done in his manifest presence.


About a month ago I wrote on this forum about a dream that I had of Srila Prabhupada RISING UP from his vyasasana in the Bhaktivedanta Manor temple room and dancing with us in the ensuing kirtan. I can hereby reveal that I have had SEVERAL dreams of Srila Prabhupada being "alive" or "coming back."


No big deal right? After all, it's a 50-50 situation. Either these dreams are real or they may be a figment of our imagination, rising from our subconscious feelings and/or desires.


But I will say something. I am a regular attendant of Bhaktivedanta Manor, and also I attend the Soho Street temple in London. This Soho temple was originally at Bury Place and this is listen in Lilamrita as the first temple in London, and then it later moved to Soho Street in 1978 I think. The Radha-Londonisvara Deities in the Soho temple are the first ever full-size Radha-krsna Deities for ISKCON, and these are the same Deities spoken about in Lilamrita which Srila Prabhupada transcendentally "stole."


Anyway let me get to my point. So anyone who has been to these two temples can verify this. It is an open fact that the murti of Srila Prabhupada in Soho temple has a slightly smiling countenance, while the Srila Prabhupada murti at Bhaktivedanta Manor displays a slightly sterner countenance.


So all I can say is that the very day after I had a VERY vivid dream of Srila Prabhupada "coming back," I visited the temple at Gaura-arati services. I was chosen that day to take the arati tray around the congregation. As everyone knows, the arati has to be offered to Srila Prabhupada so I made my way to the back of the temple room to offer to Srila Prahupada. Usually I have very great respect for Srila Prabhupada even in his murti form because I have always tried to maintain the vision that the murti is alive even though it externally seems like marble, or whatever. But after offering the arati to Srila Prabhupada, I looked at the murti and I saw that the murti was SMILING AT ME!


WHAT ?!?! This is the murti at Bhaktivedanta Manor which everyone knows looks stern, but that day it was smiling? And it has never seemed to smile at me since? Smiling, as if confirming that the vivid dream that I had had of him the previous night was bona fide and real?


I don't know, in fact I don't know anything. I just fall at the feet of those who shower me mercy that is unasked even, but I fully agree on this point, that Srila Prabhupada is alive and sitting on the vyasasana just as he used to do.


I don't know what this means for initiations and the controversies that can arise, but all I know is that Srila Prabhupada is alive and sits on the vyasasana, that's all.


Now my only hope is to hold fast to his instructions and become a little purified so that perhaps I may hear if he chooses to be merciful to me and speak to me. Or at least I hopelessly cry to see his benevolent smile again.


My only regret is that the day I was doing that arati, my mind was fixed on duty. It was my duty to offer the arati to Srila Prabhupada and then take it amongst the congregation, so I could not look at Srila Prabhupada smiling at me for long. How I wish I had forgotten that duty so that I could have drowned in his smile. This is not a hallucination. I can personally testify that the murti at Bhaktivedanta Manor is a rather stern-looking one. Anyone who sees that murti will corroborate this, but how did I see him smile? I don't know, but all I can do is hope to see it again.


I realise that this will turn out to be a very long post and most of you will probably have fallen asleep by now. Please forgive my insane ramblings and shower your mercy on me so that I may be able to glorify Sri Guru and Sri Gauranga more eloquently, so that I may redeem the tongue that was gifted to me.

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I have had two dreams of Srila Prabhupada and they are as clear to me today as they were the morning after. Dreams of Guru and Krishna are not like any other dreams. I hold the dreams that I had of Prabhupada very dearly and treasure them deeply. I am containing myself here - I tend to become very animated and will go on and on about the dreams of Srila Prabhupada!


I have also experienced the facial expression changes in deities and I know of devotees that have told me of having the same experience. Why not? These are not "statues"! The deities are non-different, right?


So, the same paragraph touched me also, about Srila Prabhupada's murti being non-different from His flesh body.



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Lets look at the points Amoga is revealing to us Srila Prabhupada has pointed out to him


1)The Guru must be 100% sure he beyound transendental to breaking the regulative principals.


2)The Disclip has to 100% acceapt his guru and good as God

or such not be acceapted for iniation.


3)The Guru can not canvas for disclips and if they do they should be rejected as guru.


4)In the void of no guru being able to follow the above points then that aspiriting disclip can/should feel His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada as thier Guru and understand that He will lead them Back Home Back to Godhead.


5) The temple presidents should recommend the disclip to

the Guru the disclip aspires to serve.


I would think that #4 is the point that our god brother whom call himself stone hearted has a problem with in according to Guru Sadhu and Sastra.


Srila Prabhupada made the point very clearly within his room the last two weeks that whom ever was nearest could iniatate the new disclip when speaking about the 11 person which he called rivitk acryas transperent to the pervious acarya


This I heard with my own ears.


The point that Amoga realizations are of a personal nature

to us they may seem to be like that,


to Amonga is seems that he has been ordered to reveal them as transmissions


direct from Srila Prabhupada.


This point is the most hard to verify but we can see that many points he is makeing would be to the bennifit to the health of ISKCON




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Some guest directs our attention to his soapbox; we comment innocently. Then he fends off criticism as though it is all an accident in cyberspace. This guest post summing up his sales pitch is just too attached to the outcome for me not to suspect a set up, an ambush, a hoodwink, a zealot bandwagon hayride, by one of those organization worshipping cultist politicians.


I also felt the expression 'in the flesh' would not be used by a vaishnava. I checked and Srila Prabhupada does not use the expression like that in the Vedabase, which of course proves nothing. I would not use the expression any more than I would say that I was struck in the breast with a baseball. "In person" would be a more saintly expression, a more sattvic word, rather than the rajo "flesh".


Well, I guess I just have developed a genuine distrust of the various fanatic groups floating about. They become so damn irrational it's obvious to me that they're not backed by anything but ego.


As I found out the hard way yesterday: entertaining bogus ideas like Radha and Krsna not actually being in love can cause your heart to feel totally empty, wondering if you've lost Krsna forever. And that was hell. I pity that po foo and I leave him to his hell, and I leave these politicians to theirs.

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Haribol, yes I know, as I said, I am a little bit aware about this question of initiations from the vyasasana and what kind of a controversy it will cause in ISKCON today. I don't know, I wa sjust very much enlivened about that statement of Srila Prabhupada being alive and sitting in his murti form on the vyasasana. I know this from my own experience and others have experienced it too. I suppose everyone can experience it if they are submissive enough and Srila Prabhupada gives them that mercy.


Excuse me, am I to understand that you were in the room during that 1977 conversation that Srila Prabhupada spoke about getting initiation from the nearest representative? As you have logged in anonymously, would you mind getting in touch with me by sending me a private message or something, as I would like to have your association.


Yes I understand the point about Amoghalila prabhu. I myself don't know what to make of it. On one hand it sounds like Srila Prabhupada, and yet on the other hand there are some elements that do not sound the way that Srila Prabhupada spoke. It would be nice if it were true, but at this point I guess we cannot know.


Although I do wonder about something extra. There is reference in those conversations to how Srila Prabhupada spoke to Amoghalila in 1979? I wonder what those transcripts sounded like? Apparently some other devotee has said that these transcripts seemed to describe big vyasasanas, zones, etc so it seems like Srila Prabhupada was then in favour of the Zonal Acharya system? How incongruous is that with Srila Prabhupada's seeming desires today when it appears that you can take initiation from the vyasasana? These are all complicated issues, I agree. But just as Srila Prabhupada seems to say that "ten years later" people were following his ritvik instructions? So it might be a good idea to wait and see how this new desire pans out, will it cause another revolution in ISKCON in the future? Let us wait and see. I would still like to have your association, please be kind to get in touch with me.

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4)In the void of no guru being able to follow the above points then that aspiriting disclip can/should feel His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada as thier Guru and understand that He will lead them Back Home Back to Godhead.




I would think that #4 is the point that our god brother whom call himself stone hearted has a problem with in according to Guru Sadhu and Sastra.



With all due respect, I don't think that this is what Amoghalila is syaing strictly. I read the conversations again and it seems quite clear that any disciple of Srila Prbahupada who gets initiated in this way (post-samadhi from vyasasana) can have a "monitor guru" to supervise him?
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Srila Prabhupada allways wants the devottess to assoicate together in sadhu sangam.There is allways a need for everyone to be checked by a higher authority and not become islands un to them selves.


Srila Prabhupada Himself is Nameste Sarawati Devi the servant of His Srila Prabhupada Srila Prabhupada is allways in this mood.


Srila Prabhupada is never looking for a time when he will be disconnected from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada free to assoicate directly with Krishna.


Some of our godbrothers tho express the desire to one day attain a postion in direct assoication with Krishna.


Its kinda of a night mare to me this mentailty.


I was once told that my problem was That I can never see a time when my serice would ever surpast that of Srila Prabhupadas service???

Yes I told this god brother I never even think in this way for a moment.Hellish


Its a well known fact that Srila Prabhupada said which ever one is nearest can iniatate disclips.


Once while working with HH Jaya Pataka Swami in Bubanweshwar when HH Tamal Krishna Maharaja had sent him and others in India letters asking me to return to Hong Kong


HH Jaya Pataka Swami reminded me that service to Srila Prabhupada was beyound service to my godbrother whom I have recieved Gayatri mantra fr .


That this was not the way Srila Prabhupada set this system .


When it is favorable for these men they jump back and forth on this system .Which they have broken into bits and peices many times.


when its not they adhear to a island like fortress of many societies within one society


Which has killed the entire loveing mood


My email is artmaya@hotmail.com or avery_g@bellsouth.net

and Girihari ji I am allways anxious to have your good assoication as well as all the devottees here

Pita das

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