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I was once advised as a sankirtana devotee not to give my energy to karmis who are argumentative. It's just a waste of time. Rather I should intelligently put my energies where they can be useful to someone else.


The foolish will simply argue for their own destruction. They believe in themselves.


I have only provided insults to people refusing to be philosophical and straying from the issues. In return, I get simply get shallow blowback of egotistical crap.


I am going to leave the board now as I almost did once before.


My personal experience is that many of you really care little about promoting Krsna consciousness and debating the issues. Rather, you try to impress everyone with your own opinions and emotional appeal that have little to do with philosophy or religion.


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Ethosji: don'tcha fret. We r all fallible teensy weensy jIvas. Give us your mercy at least weekly. Sorry if I disturbed u. Your 'blind' Vedik zloka choice caught my attention.

As Sonny & Cher once sang: "Baba don't go, Priti Baba please don't go!"

ps - we don't even know who u r & u r leaving us already? What is this? A masquerade bolo? Halloween trick or treat?

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Ive been on forums for five years, and have seen many go by announcing their departure, only to return again. One or two announced their retirements in a very nice manner, and I will always remember how nice they were. Others go by leaving mines on the trail.


I have made such announcements, but I still write, and I returned. On some forums, I just quit because of what I perceived to be offensive.


It is my conclusion that announcements like this are quickly read, as well as follow-up comments, by the announcer. Kinda like slammin the door for an impact.


No, sir, it is not everyone else that fails here. Finding fault or minimizing others is inability of seeing the self as the greatest roadblock.


Goodbye, you wont be missed, for we are all imaginary friends here in cyber world.


haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

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We may have things in common, but I am certainly not you.


I have made such announcements, but I still write, and I returned...

I didn't have to reply to this, but I am confirming your suspicion just to show you how write you are––in part. This board has been and is an experience in communication. I am learning alot about people's motives and plans. My review of this, of course, is necessary to update what I surmise. It is useful for my experience and future plans.


It is my conclusion that announcements like this are quickly read, as well as follow-up comments, by the announcer. Kinda like slammin the door for an impact...

Again, your experience is more than mine and I'm happy to admit your insight. I do not participate on any other board. I had a brief experience on CNN before––became quickly fried with the ignorance. I'm pretty fried with this general experience too. Still there are bits of nectar to be had by the board moderators and a few others and I find it hard to throw all that away.


No, sir, it is not everyone else that fails here...

This is just emotional appeal. I didn't say everyone fails. I said most people are not able to deal with the issues objectively (including yourself) and they quickly resort to character assasinations by recourse as you are doing here. Besides, how can you objectively make any statement about the "success" or "failure" of any of the boards participants?


Finding fault or minimizing others is inability of seeing the self as the greatest roadblock...

More emotional appeal. You seem to be hard at work practicing what you preach.


Anyway, the greatest danger is not fault finding or minimizing others if it is done in accordance with devotional pursuit. We all have to judge and some will be on a level to correct others. The greatest danger is accepting truth for untruth and visa-versa.


The problem with a board like this is the egotistic appeal of promoting oneself. And I think we are all suspect, myself included. It has certainly caused anxiety for me and I do plan on leaving, but on my terms––not yours.


I will be posting Dialectic Spiritualism Highlights and probably some essays in the future. They will not be full of my archair opinions and should be acceptable to everyone as they either come from or are based on Hridyanada Maharaja (he finished the Bhagavatam after Prabhupada left) or His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. I will return to the board maybe once a day for now to take advantage of the unique articles JNdas sometimes posts regarding spiritual life. I'm engaged in research and it is convieniennt for me to do so. My posting of articles is in the same vein and I hope you wouldn't deny me that.


I will try not to interact with the board members in any other way. You will not have to worry about me giving critique or criticizing individuals. I understand this complaint from others and will comply.


My only exception is the Vipramukha Swami quits thread under World events. I will respond as necessary. Otherwise, I hope to serve all of you by not bursting your bubbles.


And speaking of that thread, your comments are not so much psychic ability as they are a reaction to my post there.


There is an amiable situation which––in this case––appears to be no communication at all. Respect my space and I will respect yours. Hare Bol!

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Haribol, ethos. I dont usually react to anything on these forums. I use them as a way of associating with devotees. My comments here were not meant to criticize your writing efforts, some of which I may find enlightening, some closed minded, some ridiculous, which describes all forum writers (including myself) with very few exceptions.


Forums are considered by myself to be like temples after all the guests go home after a sunday feast. While we clean up the mess, we may talk philosophy, we may joke around, we may discuss political conspiracy theories. Sometimes in these informal dealings between "friends", there may be disagreement, even arguement, but the bottom line is that we dont go to sleep without offering each other heartfelt obiesancies, which is what I do to you now.


I have no problems with any devotees, be they rtviks, GBC followers, GM guru disciples, or independent disciples of disciples of Srila Prabhupada. I enjoy all perspectives they may present to these forums because it serves as a guage to show the Glories of the Supreme Lord. I dont congratulate nonsense nor do I patronize self-serving hypocracy, but I do enjoy honest perspective.


Another bottom line, we all have three classes of vaisnavas we deal with (as I have been taught), the less advanced, we try to instruct up to the levels of our own advancement, our peers who we maintain friendship and cooperation with, and those who are more advanced, whom we hear from and serve (at least mentally) with rapt attention. We do judge, this is our responsibility, but we do not cast others to hell, which is not our responsibility.


Anyway, I personally limit my time on these forums (because there are lots of other things to do). I certainly do not read all topics, nor writings on a particular topic, only ones that I may have enough interest in, know the authors, etc. I certainly do not use the forums to garner cheap fame for myself, because I have already become famous, as much as I can handle. Its just a break from all this damn fame I am suffering that I type indiadivine on my keyboard. Fame is strangling me, and will soon kill me, so this is not my bag.


Anyway, you seem to shoot from the hip on the issues, like Hrydayananda, who I met once and we certainly grated each other, but Im not famous to him either. Hey, Im not even the "real" mahaksadasa, who clarified his position on an old Chakra.org article.


I do miss the folks who no longer seem to use various forums, like Precatan dd, bahudak, chrisL, et al, I even miss bb. But these folks just left, others have died, like damodara, and all this means to me is less association for my wicked soul, which is my misfortune. So, if I draw you out of premature retirement, I guess this is self-serving in itself. I hope to get into great arguements with you for many years, not the measly few we have had so far.


Anyway, you be good, eh, and hare krsna, ys in cooperation, mahaksadasa

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As I said before, my board experience is nil and I'm still learning the dynamics of it. You point out that alot of people react about leaving as I have and I can understand why.


Your purpose here is different from mine. I am after debate and issues. I am after philosophical positions and supporting the truth through testing and circumspection. I wanted to test my knowledge and forge my skills for larger things I am about to try.


I foolishly thought this board would be an excellent venue for this, but I stand sober and free from such fanciful intoxication by the mercy of persons like yourself. I will leave in-as-much as I will refrain from participating like before. I will make some posts of the authorities and leave my inebrities out of the equation. therefore, I can satisfy those of you who don't want my input and still have access to the finer things to be experienced on this board. I personally think thos board, with all it's faults, it's still the best thing of it's kind going anywhere.


Your note on Hridyananda is understood. I have had my "experience" with him also. However, I can't deny what he's accomplished and he is perhaps the strongest preacher in ISKCON to battle the dogmatic forces of maya. In many ways, he has expanded what Prabhupada presented with contemporary comment and powerful insights about the hypocrisy of modern man. To categorically reject one's many accomplishment because of some minor faults is not rational. I am not aware of any major misgivings in his position as there have been in fallen gurus. However, knowledge is where you find it and he has plenty of it.


Concerning his seemingly egotistical comments, I find that "sometimes" in the gopis or Prabhupada or anyone. If it's not a recurring thing, I don't give it much importance.


I look forward to your entertaining wit and experience with the others. I personally want to avoid many of the conflicts I may end up creating, so I will just be a "lurker" for the most part as I feel that I am rather inept when it comes to the niceties of social discourse and etiquette--sometimes I feel I bumble around. Thank you for your compassion and understanding. Hare Krsna!

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Dear Ethos Prabhu,

I am new to this forum and cannot participate much due to time constrictions, and don't have much to offer due to my neophyte condition, but you were really the only one that bothered to interact and question my stand, and feelings on swami quits thread. I get a real lot from just reading these threads, some are out of my league philosophically and so although I would like to, I cannot participate, but I find your posts engaging, intelligent and thoughtful. It's contributors like you who make these forums worthwhile. So don't be cut and disappointed. As someone else said, we're all teeny jivas, we all have false ego and other filth. If you aren't getting anything, try and think of what you may be giving.

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Guest guest

I am also a quitter, many times. If you're going to quit, just do it silently. You're anyonymous anyway. Otherwise, it sounds like you're the one with the wounded ego. "No one listens to me. No one is recognizing me for my superior intelligence!"


If what you say has value, someone may read it and benefit. But don't count on it. If you say something that is completely nonsense, you may also attract a devoted following of one or two cheerleaders. So don't take yourself too seriously.


Take Tarun's example. He has been posting Fascist propaganda for years and now nobody bothers to either read it or respond. Be like him: indifferent to the opinions of the world.

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Haribol, glad we seem to have gotton over a hump. I fully underestand your comment about "honing your skills". This, too, is another reason Im sort of a forum junkie. The whole idea of temple life back in the good ol days was one of istagosthi. These largely informal philosophical meetings of those who were not newbies and rather committed to the studies was a great opportunity to practice preaching techniques on each other. If, during these gatherings, we make errors, big or small, to stand corrected was a great joy, and a great learning tool.


I have used not just my own skills on the outside (of these forum temple walls), but have also applied some of the great things I have learned from the likes of Jagat, Jahnava Nitai, and others I consider much greater authorities than myself. While I may possess skills to get a certain point across to my Christian friends, but without certification from the Vaisnava community that I receive on these here channels, and the humble corrections I have received over the years, then my preachging in the real world would be somewhat limited.


Personally, Id like to thank you for starting this topic, and hope others will see it as an opportunity to not only express their frustrations with "forum temple life", but also try to note how advantageous such a thing like the internet can be if used properly.



Sadhana bhakti is a system of "practice" in order for the more natural spontaneousness fully manifests itself within the heart.


And, we must admit we get plenty of practice here. Stonehearted, my ol friend from the isle of big, notes that he is involved with much paperwork and cannot do the forums now and then because of other commitments. I, too, as Jagat and otgher ol friends from the net forums, am engulfed with legal issues stemming from my involvemnet with the US dept of Defence. I have briefs to file, judges to answer to, all within rigid time frames, and dealing with military lawyers is a real experiance, their utter incompetence mixed with a complete mastery of "spin" (called word jugglery by Srila Prabhupada). So, if during the course of working very hard on line, I take a break to speak with folks who actually know where Im coming from despite our differences on minor issues, I love and very much need the Vaisnava forums, especially free speech ones like this one and the ol dharma mela (which should be opening up in the future, I am told.)


Hare Krsna, I have a date with a nice admin judge that may see thiongs my way if I can counter the subterfuge presented by the same folks who call a trident missile with 24 nuclear bomb warheads aimed at friends as well as perceived enemies a "peacemaker".


Hare Krsna, do as Yasoda says, stay.


ys, mahaksadasa

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Guest, you are very duplicitous. Why not just address this to me?


If you, Brajamandala and I were standing around, would you face and engage him while talking at length to me? Women do this. Hmm? It is mediums such as these, corporate structures, and government bureaucracy that allow people to manifest impersonal behavior they would not ordinarily do.


Otherwise, it sounds like you're the one with the wounded ego...

I do have a wounded ego and hurt feelings and I'm expressing as much. Obviously, my opponents are suffering in a similar way. Otherwise, why do they persist in demeaning me? If you don't care, you won't bother. The attacks are not logical. It must be hurt people lashing out to hurt others.


"No one listens to me. No one is recognizing me for my superior intelligence!"...

More blowback. There are many who have attacked me with unsupported emotional slander––as you are doing now. It is a time-tested effective tactic. Jarasanda opted for this at the Rajasuja sacrifice, the Pandavas and Kauravas interacted the same, and of course in Kali-yuga, people never tire of it. I have complained about a lack of fairness from many of you, not that I'm being misunderstood. Rather, I am directly accusing many on this board of whinning like babies when they're not indulged and flattered, much like you're doing with this line. I am not crying for superiority or fame, I'm shouting "That's unfair!"


But don't count on it...

Yes, exactly. No matter what I say, some will not accept it. And if they don't accept it, they're not convinced and somehow it's not true. This is the infallible logic of karmis. You can't prove anything to a moron. You can ultimately undermine any knowledge with just crass rejection or doubt.


If you say something that is completely nonsense, you may also attract a devoted following of one or two cheerleaders. So don't take yourself too seriously...

This foolishness of this proposal is that it is more descriptive of you than me. I have stuck to the issues and not deviated from Prabhupada. But never mind that, it's all worthless because I said it and nothing I say is relevant. You, and others like you, on the other hand indulge in superficial courtesies in the pursuit of bawdy fun. When you are seriously challenged, you just resort to cheating yourself and others all in the name of entertainment––or just to hide your ignorance.


indifferent to the opinions of the world...

You can't even take your own advice seriously. Why should I or anyone else?


If you're going to quit, just do it silently...

Nothing could please some of you more than the vision of me walking away like a dog with his tail between his legs. In your decrepit minds, you would somehow be vindicated with that image. Out of sight, out of mind!


Well, I'm not your dog! I have amiably offered to refrain from discourse to please you guys. Don't ask for anything more. I'm not gonna disappear and forsake all the advantages here just so some jerks can feel superior. If I talk with some of you I will supposedly offend––just like I'm doing now––and I will waste alot of my precious time just pissing off "devotees". By not engaging in personal dialogue, I will avoid my frustrations with that activity and remain passive for the health of the board. Stop being control freaks and telling me what to do! It hasn't and it won't work. Be happy with your miserly successes and stop being too greedy where I'm concerned.


Give me a chance to make good my promise and stop engaging me. You should know by now the result is simply more of what you don't want. Hare Krsna!

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Brajamandala and Yashoda, thanks for your heart-felt support. You defied the common consensus and expressed your own feelings. I am indebted to your strength and friendship. Please accept my obeisances.


Mahak, I am enlivened by your discourse. We are Prabhupada's family and our glory is be residents of the house that Prabhupada built. Relatives may fight, it doesn't mean they don't love one another. I'm happy to accept you as brother. I'm sorry I didn't show more sensitivity to your feelings. I wasn't raised with much affection and it has definately taken its toll on me. Please accept my obeisances.


Please post your future victories against the forces of evil. I anxiously await news of your triumph.


To all others, adeu. If I am left alone now, I will simply make a few posts not of my own mind. I will not be argumentative and challenging, therefore I will not participate. My word and duty should mean everything to me.


I look forward to the Krsna katha found in this unique spot. Hare Krsna!




Oh, I may not get another chance to say this, so here it goes:


I do not think it so improbable that many or all of us can potentially or practically change the world. In fact, I think it's a crying shame if we don't.


We all know mundane history. We all know the motives and circumstances of "great personalities" who affected world events in their particular context. Sometimes, even the blowing of the wind decides the fate of nations or world history as in the destruction of the Spanish armada against England.


Our family of vaisnavas, have the greatest gift and the highest purpose. We are most intelligent compared to karmis and we understand the substance behind the veil. We have the natural advantage of philosophical basis and singular purpose. We also have the highest debt to superiors. We have the potential to represent God Himself and call maya to serve us.


How much more capable are we to change the world than mundane men! We are better suited by virute of our knowledge and motive than most historical figures. We all know the secret: promote Krsna consciousness on the strength of the saints and authorities of Vedic culture. Simply propagate their message and all beings will be satisfied.


If mundane ambitious men can be so influential, What is their secret? What do they know that we don't? What are we waiting for?


We don't have to be Prabhupadas. We don't have to be qualified. Like the hoardes of sankirtana devotees that once existed, we simply have to engage in intelligent service.




This is all so dramatic! I am humored as you must be.

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Guest guest


In the Bhagavad-Gita Krishna say's

"perform your duty without expectation of the result"


" I am guiding the wanderings of all"


" the self realized soul sees everything equally"


When one is attached to the fruits of one's labor,

misery may be the result when one dose not get

the desired result.


when you can see the role of Paramatma as the

controller of the jiva, then you will see all

things equally,the lord is situated within the heart

of all living entities,when you can see that everyone's actions are being done in conjunction with Paramesvara,

then you will see all things equally.


You will understand that God is in control,not the jiva,when we blame others we need to first blame ourselves

for our own lack of realization of seeing

everything as the will of God.


Then peacefullness can be attained,no longer is one affected by percieved faults of others, for you will

know that they all serve the will of God,

knowinglly and purposefully, or unknowinglly,

either way Krishna states


"Everyone follows MY path in ALL respects "


So relax,don't carry the world on your shoulders,everything

is taken care of,always has been,always will be.

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If what you say has value, someone may read it and benefit. But don't count on it. If you say something that is completely nonsense, you may also attract a devoted following of one or two cheerleaders. So don't take yourself too seriously.



Lord Krishna says-


'He (She) who is the SAME to

the foe and friend and


who is the SAME in cold and heat,


who is FREE from ATTACHMENT,


who is silent, CONTENT with ANYTHING,


FULL of Loving Devotion for Me -




Gita- 12.18,19


Lord Krishna makes His teaching CLEAR to all saying -


"matkarma kRnmatparamo

madbhaktas sanga varjitaH

nirvaira ssarva bhUteSu

yassamAmeti pAndava"


(Gita 11.55)







he COMES TO ME, O Arjuna."

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