The Jiva Did Not fall From Goloka?

[Guest guest]

Correction:

 

not "please do you...

the correct beginning is:" why do you.."

[Guruvani 0]

Let's take a bigger bite out of the teachings of Bhaktivinode in the Jaiva Dharma and maybe we can get a better understanding of things.

 

Jaiva Dharma ch. 16:

 

In Goloka, which is manifested by Lord Baladeva, and in

Vaikuntha, which is manifested by Lord Sankarsana, numberless

individual souls are eternal associates of the Lord. There they

taste the nectar of worshipping and serving the Lord. They are

always inclined to spiritual things. They seek the happiness of

worshipping the Lord. They are always eager to serve the Lord.

Empowered by the Lord's jiva-sakti and cit-sakti, they always have

great spiritual strength. They never touch Maya. They do not even

know that a potency called maya-sakti exists. Staying in the

middle of the circle of the spiritual world, they are very far away

from Maya. They always swim in the ocean of pleasure that is

worshipping and serving the Lord. They know nothing of suffering,

material pleasure or selfish pleasure. They are eternally

liberated. Love for the Lord is their entire life. What are

grief, death, and fear they do not know. When He glances at Maya,

Lord Karanodakasayi Visnu sends numberless atomic spirit souls to

the material world. Because they are now on Maya's side, the many

creations of Maya now enter the pathway of their eyes. These souls

have all the qualities of the soul I have already described.

However, because they are atomic in size, from the border of matter

and spirit (tatastha) they must place their glance on either the

spiritual world or the material world. The individual souls are

very weak. How can this not be? These souls did not obtain the

spiritual strength that comes from the Lord's mercy, mercy that

comes from properly serving Him. That is why these souls develop a

desire to enjoy the pleasures that Maya offers. These souls enter

Maya's world, and there Maya imprisons them for what seems an

eternity. When these souls again turn to spiritual life and

service to the Lord, they can attain the Lord's mercy, which will

give them spiritual strength. Then they can return to the

spiritual world. Baba, I am very unfortunate. I have forgotten

that I am eternally a servant of Lord Krsna. I have entered Maya's

world, and here Maya keeps me imprisoned. I have forgotten my own

spiritual welfare. I am very unfortunate!

Vrajanatha: O master, why did some souls leave the borderline

of matter and spirit and enter the world of Maya? Why did other

souls go to the spiritual world?

Babaji: Lord Krsna's own qualities are present in a very small

degree in the individual spirit souls. Because Lord Krsna has free

will, so the individual souls eternally possess a small quantity of

free will also. When that free will is used properly, the

individual soul is favourable to Krsna and turns toward Him. When

the free will is misused, the soul is averse to Krsna and turns

away from Him. Then the soul tries to enjoy Maya. Puffed up with

petty pride, the soul thinks, "I am the enjoyer of matter." Then

the pure spiritual form of the soul becomes covered by the five

kinds of ignorance that begin with illusion and false-ego. Thus it

is the proper or improper use of free will that bring us either

liberation or imprisonment in the material world.

Vrajanatha: Lord Krsna is supremely merciful. Why, then, did

He make the individual spirit souls so weak that they fall into

Maya's world?

Babaji: As He is merciful, so Krsna is also playful. Desiring

many different kinds of pastimes with individual spirit souls in

many different conditions of life, He created many exalted

conditions, which culminate in 'maha-bhava' great ecstatic

spiritual love for the Lord., and He also created, with the help of

Sri Radha's expansion Maya, the degraded material conditions of

life, which reach their nadir in 'ahankara' (the soul's

misidentification with matter). In this way, by the influence of

Sri Radha there is the attainment of limitless transcendental

bliss, and by the influence of Maya there is a descent into the

lower depths. The souls that thus enter Maya's abyss are not

interested in their own spiritual well-being. They are averse to

Lord Krsna and interested in their own selfish pleasure. Thus they

go down lower and lower. However, supremely merciful Lord Krsna

sends His own personal associates from His own spiritual world into

the material world to make these souls favourable to Him and to

lift them out of the abyss. In this way some of the fallen souls

gradually become elevated and eventually return to the spiritual

world, where they become eternal associates of the Lord.</pre>

[Guest guest]

Thank You for your help in

proving our interpretation:

"They are eternally

liberated. Love for the Lord is their entire life. What are

grief, death, and fear they do not know. When He glances at Maya..."

Did you see this sentence? THE ETERNALLY LIBERATED (JIVA)... HE GLANCES AT MAYA...

 

Didn't He? Or who?

[muralidhar_das 0]

 

"When he is imprisoned in the material world, the spirit soul does not lose his original spiritual form, the form he had in the spiritual world of Vaikuntha."

How could you explain this?

 

The form of the self is "consciousness". We never lose our conscious identity.

 

 

 

Sri Tattva Sutra 16.

vicararagau cetana dharmau svarupa pravrtti bhavat

The form (svarupa) of the soul is "consciousness" (cetana -- "chaitanya").

The inclination of the soul (prvritti) is to feel love (bhava)

Bhaktivinoda's commentary:

Every object is endowed with two components of its intrinsic form (svarupa) and its characteristic nature (pravritti). The form of the jivatma is knowledge (jnana) and its inclinatino is love (anuraga). The Supreme Lord alone is the object of this love. But in the conditioned state of the jiva souls this love is applied towards secondary objects of Maya.

 

 

Sri Tattva Sutra 16.

17. pare 'nurakti svabhaviki sreyaskarica itaresaupadhiki duhkhapradhac ca

Love of Godhead is the natural and auspicious function of the living entity. When that love is directed toward objects of material existence it becomes the source of all miseries.

 

[muralidhar_das 0]

 

Thank You for your help in

proving our interpretation:

"They are eternally

liberated. Love for the Lord is their entire life. What are

grief, death, and fear they do not know. When He glances at Maya..."

Did you see this sentence? THE ETERNALLY LIBERATED (JIVA)... HE GLANCES AT MAYA...

 

Didn't He? Or who?

 

Please supply the chapter of Prema Pradipa you are quoting from.

 

I am not sure your translation is accurate and I have the original here, along with an English translation.

[Guruvani 0]

 

Thank You for your help in

proving our interpretation:

"They are eternally

liberated. Love for the Lord is their entire life. What are

grief, death, and fear they do not know. When He glances at Maya..."

Did you see this sentence? THE ETERNALLY LIBERATED (JIVA)... HE GLANCES AT MAYA...

 

Didn't He? Or who?

It's quite obvious that you refuse to see the truth and have an agenda to prove that your ISKCON guru does not have a misunderstanding of Gaudiya Siddhanta.

 

You don't want to objectively know the siddhanta.

You want to pidegonhole the siddhanta into a mold that fits what your ISKCON guru has been preaching for many years.

 

I could care less which version is correct.

 

I just want to understand the truth.

I don't care which conclusion is the right conclusion.

 

You have to be an idiot to think that nitya-siddhas, the parshadas of Krishna fall down from Goloka.

 

It's a very ignorant concept and is actually an insult to Krishna and his planet Goloka.

 

It's very rude to say that Krishna lets his pure devotees in Goloka fall down to become worms in stool.

 

Krishna protects his pure devotees. He doesn't let them fall down to become worms in stool.

It's very foolish to broadcast that he does.

[Guest guest]

You have forgotten the end of the sentence:

 

"the form he had in the spiritual world of VAIKUNTHA."

 

So there is a simple guestion: Where has the jiva this form? In VAIKUNTHA. So where did the soul come from?

 

Simple question simple answer (because it's in the sentence): FROM VAIKUNTHA. SO VAIKUNTHA IS THE SAME AS BRAHMAJYOTI?

 

NO!!!!

[muralidhar_das 0]

 

And the guestion again:

In the first sentence of the song does Bhaktivinoda Thakura speak about the forgetfulness of which causes the soul's bondage to the material world? Doesn't He?

Again I say this: Krsna is "Brahman, Paramatma, Bhagavan".

 

There are souls who are liberated and merged in God's impersonal aspect called Brahma (brahman). The "nigarbha-yogī" atmarama souls who adore God in his impersonal aspect are listed as "santa bhaktas" by Sri Chaitanya.

 

They are impersonalists; they can fall down.

 

<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Originally Posted by Śrī Caitanya

Madhya 24.164

ei saba śānta yabe bhaje bhagavān

'śānta' bhakta kari' tabe kahi tāńra nāma

"These thirteen types of yogīs and munis are called śānta-bhaktas, for they render transcendental loving service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead in the neutral stage.

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<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Originally Posted by Śrī Caitanya

Madhya 24.155

sagarbha, nigarbha, — ei haya dui bheda

eka eka tina bhede chaya vibheda

TRANSLATION

"The two types of ātmārāma-yogīs are called sagarbha and nigarbha. Each of these is divided into three; therefore there are six types of worshipers of the Supersoul.

PURPORT

The word sagarbha-yogī refers to a yogī who worships the Supersoul in the Viṣṇu form. The nigarbha-yogī worships the Supersoul without form. The sagarbha and nigarbha yogīs are further categorized: (1) sagarbha-yogārurukṣu, (2) nigarbha-yogārurukṣu, (3) sagarbha-yogārūḍha, (4) nigarbha-yogārūḍha, (5) sagarbha-prāpta-siddhi and (6) nigarbha-prāpta-siddhi.

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<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Liberated souls can be classified as two types. Jivanmukta liberated souls who are liberated but living in a body. And "anadi-siddha" liberated souls who have no material body and are liberated in the impersonal Brahman (these souls have been called this name "anadi-siddha" by Sanatana Goswami) . These type of souls who see God as an impersonal being can fall down from their liberated position.

[muralidhar_das 0]

 

You have forgotten the end of the sentence:

 

"the form he had in the spiritual world of VAIKUNTHA."

 

So there is a simple guestion: Where has the jiva this form? In VAIKUNTHA. So where did the soul come from?

 

Simple question simple answer (because it's in the sentence): FROM VAIKUNTHA. SO VAIKUNTHA IS THE SAME AS BRAHMAJYOTI?

 

NO!!!!

 

I realize English is not your primary language.

 

But please make it more clear what you are talking about.

 

Which sentence ends with FROM VAIKUNTHA.

 

I cannot understand what you are trying to say. Which quote are you referring to?

[Guest guest]

Dear Guruvani pr!

 

You did not answered the guestion. So I have to make a conclusion (for myself)...

 

And please try to be less offensive against my guru.

 

(And in the logic they call this "personal argument" a logical fault)

 

Please try to concentrate on the real arguments!

[muralidhar_das 0]

Here is an interesting quote most people would not have seen before.

 

================

 

Srila Visvanatha Thakura commentary, Bhaktirasamrtasindhu verse 1.2.279:

• "Among the enemies of Hari killed by Him, some merge into Brahman. Others, such as Srngala Vasudeva, attain forms somewhat resembling that of the Lord, but remain merged in the happiness of brahman rather than serving the Lord."
  

Paundraka, this man Srngala Vasudeva, is "with Krsna", but he is not engaged in any devotional activity or in the divine Lila. He is merged in the happiness of brahman. Paundraka has no bhakti or love for Krishna and consequently he has no active role in Vaikuntha. His mind dwells on the feeling of oneness with the Lord and even though he is manifesting a spiritual form (sarupya) he is fixed in meditation on the formless Brahman.

[Guest guest]

Murlidhar pr, the sentence again:

 

"When he is imprisoned in the material world, the spirit soul does not lose his original spiritual form, the form he had in the spiritual world OF VAIKUNTHA."

 

So where was the jive befor he come to the materila world. ON VAIKUNTHA.

[Guest guest]

Excuse me Muralidhar pr, but I didn't see that your name is not Murlidhar.

[muralidhar_das 0]

 

Murlidhar pr, the sentence again:

 

"When he is imprisoned in the material world, the spirit soul does not lose his original spiritual form, the form he had in the spiritual world OF VAIKUNTHA."

 

So where was the jive befor he come to the materila world. ON VAIKUNTHA.

 

This is in your english translation of Prema Pradipa. ISKCON translators ofter put in words like "of Vaikuntha" that are not in the original text.

 

Can you tell me what chapter this is in, so I can check the words in the original text?

[muralidhar_das 0]

 

Excuse me Muralidhar pr, but I didn't see that your name is not Murlidhar.

 

No problem

 

And by the way, I'm not trying to "beat" you.

 

I just feel it is sad that ISKCON people believe someone would choose to leave Krishna and enter into Maya. Krishna is so beautiful, nobody who ever saw Him would ever want to leave his association.

[Guest guest]

(Prema-pradépa, p. 83)

 

Oh a preconception... it's very nice. ))

[muralidhar_das 0]

I have posted the whole of the Prema Pradipa on a separate thread

 

can you find the section you are quoting.

 

I cannot find anything like what you are quoting from that shastra.

[muralidhar_das 0]

Eternal variegatedness establishes the difference between the Lord and the various living entities

“The Supreme Brahman and the living entities reside in Vaikuntha. In Vaikuntha the constitution of God is eternally established by variegatedness, and the living entities eternally reside in their spiritually perfect bodies. The variegatedness there does not allow one living entity to merge with another, nor does it give an opportunity for the living entities to merge with the Lord. This variegatedness establishes mutual distinctions, situations, and relationships. Variegatedness cannot be said to be something beyond Bhagavan. Sudarshana cakra is variegatedness in the form of the Lord's device. That is the first power of the Lord's energy.”

 

The power of the variegated potency is of three kinds—sandhini, samvit, and hladini

 

“The Lord's inconceivable energy displays its power in the form of variegatedness such as the Lord's body, the living entity's body, the situation of both, and the form of the spiritual realm.

 

“The power of the variegated energy is of three kinds: sandhini, samvit, and hladini. From the potency of sandhini, all existence is manifest. The existence of the body, death, time, association, ingredients, etc. are all made of sandhini. All relationships and feelings are manifest from samvit. All rasa is manifest from hladini. Existence as well as relationship and feeling all culminate in rasa. Those who don't accept variety, the impersonalists, are dry. Variety is the life of enjoyment.”

 

The world is full of matter and impure while Vaikuntha is spiritual and pure

“Let us finish one topic right now. Vaikuntha is chinmaya, or spiritual, the living entity is spiritual, Bhagavan is spiritual, their relationship is spiritual, activities there are spiritual, and all the results are spiritual. What have you understood? As the material world is made of material elements, the spiritual world is similarly made of spiritual substance. What is cit? Variegated matter, subtle matter, or is it the opposite of matter? It is none of these. Cit is the ideal element. As much as cit is pure, matter is impure.”

 

The meaning of cit—knowledge attained by samadhi, the atma, and his body

“When referring to cit, it is immediately compared to knowledge. How can that be? Our knowledge is based on matter, is that the case with cit?—No. If pure knowledge is obtained from the atma through samadhi, then one can relish knowledge related to cit. It is not that only atma is meant by the word cit. The atma's constitution, or body, is made of cit. The inconceivable energy eternally manifests a formation of ingredients named cit. From that formation, the abode, the bodies, and other paraphernalia eternally manifest in Vaikuntha. The atma belongs to Vaikuntha, that is why the characteristics of cit accompany the atma in this world and reflect the substance named matter.

 

“Therefore the substance cit is more subtle and palatable than matter, subtle matter, matter in any capacity, or the opposite of matter, nirvishesha.”

 

Cit, or consciousness, is of two types—pratyag and parag

“Cit and consciousness are one substance. One should know a little about the word chaitanya. Chaitanya is of two kinds—pratyag and parag. When Vaishnavas are absorbed in prema, at that time pratyag chaitanya, or internal knowledge, arises. When one's absorption in prema is broken, he then comes to his external senses and parag chaitanya arises. Parag chaitanya is not called cit, but it is called a shadow of cit.

 

“In the liberated state we have a spiritual form. In the conditioned state we have a form of indistinct matter and spirit. In the liberated state vaikuntha-rasa is enjoyed, and in the conditioned state it should be sought after. We have discussed the enjoyable rasa in that state (but with perverted form).”

 

An introduction to the five rasa—shanta, dasya, sakhya, vatsalya, and madhurya

 

“All cit substance is full of shanta-rasa. According to the relationship, rasa is of five kinds. Shanta-rasa is the first. In shanta-rasa there are a few bhavas, or feelings, like shelter at the Lord's feet, cessation of all material distress, and distaste for anything other than Bhagavan. When dry impersonalism or the Brahman conception is finished, shanta-rasa awakens. Sanaka, Sanatana, Sananda, and Sanat-kumara were impersonalists at first, then they surrendered to the Lord and became absorbed in shanta-rasa. Sthayi-bhava, vibhava, anubhava, and sancari-bhava are present in shanta-rasa, but as yet, not manifest. In shanta-rasa, sthayi-bhava is always present in the form of rati, yet being unnourished, it doesn't develop into prema.

 

By good fortune rasa increases and the second platform of rasa, dasya, is awakened. In this stage, as the devotee feels “The Lord is my master,” an intimate attachment appears which nourishes the loving relationship. Affection, or rati, of sthayi-bhava is nourished in this rasa in the form of prema. The Lord and the living entity thus accept a reciprocal relationship with the Lord as master and the living entity as servant.

 

The third rasa is sakhya. The affection of sthayi-bhava flourishes in this rasa from the stage of prema into pranaya, love. Awe and reverence of the master-servant relationship is left behind and faith becomes strong.

 

The fourth rasa is vatsalya. Affection in this rasa crosses beyond prema and pranaya and attains sneha. In this rasa, faith is further enriched in strength.

 

The fifth rasa is madhurya. Affection, or rati, of sthayi-bhava in this rasa crosses beyond prema, pranaya, and sneha and develops into mana, bhava, raga, and ultimately mahabhava. In this rasa, the strength of faith increases so much that the Lord and the devotee become one in heart and soul.”

 

The various apartments of Vaikuntha and the location of the rasas in the various apartments

“The five rasas are all present in Vaikuntha. The outer apartment of Vaikuntha is full of opulence. The inner apartment is full of sweetness. Lord Narayana resides in the opulent apartment, and Lord Krishna resides in the sweet apartment. The apartment of sweetness has two subdivisions—Goloka and Vrindavana.

 

“Shanta and dasya are always present in the apartment of opulence. Sakhya, vatsalya, and madhurya are eternally present in the apartment of sweetness.

 

“According to the living entity's inclination, he reposes and enjoys in the appropriate apartment.”

[krsna 3]

Did I fall from Goloka?

 

Nope, that's not a place to fall from according to sastra.

 

But I do want to go to Goloka, don't you?

 

That's the main thing to DESIRE rightly so that all times, places and circumstances will concur to assist me, the tiny jiva soul, to safely journey to KRSNA's abode.

 

Hare Krsna

[Guest guest]

 

Devarsirat pr:

"Did anyone ever read about "Lalita the fine particle" ?"

 

Did you recognised that we are talking about the JIVAS? In your opinion is Lalita a jiva?

 

No you misunderstand me, I was trying to be clever, I meant to sound rediculous. Of course Lalita is not a jiva or a fine particle. A direct associate of The Lord cannot be descibed in this way.

 

It was meant for those who think one could fall down from Goloka. Those who do fall down are always described as minute, spiritual particle, conditioned souls, jivas and so on.

 

so we never have the inhabitants of Goloka described as such.

[Devarsirat 0]

The brahmajyoti is the source of all illumination and the "fine particles" described above are floating within the effulgence of the brahmajyoti, which is also the source of all light which is distributed everywhere in all universes.

 

The area where we have arrived from, is the brahmajyoti effulgence in which the Vaikuntha planets float.

 

The Vaikuntha planets are personal and the brahmajyoti is Krishnas inpersonal effulgence.

 

We are always described as marginal energy or spiritual sparks floating within the brahmajyoti, but we are not inhabitants of the Vaikuntha planets.

 

From the impersonal brahmajyoti effulgence we can see the heavenly planets of the demigods and also the Vaikuntha planets.

 

It is from there that we, because of our free will are able to decide where we want to be, in Vaikuntha as an eternal servant of The Lord or become a demigod and enjoy material pleasures.

 

We turned our eyes away from Vaikuntha and decided to come here, that was our mistake. Now by the mercy of Sri Guru and Krishna, we can rectifie this mistake and turn our eyes away from the material world instead.

 

This time by serving Guru and Radha Krishna with love and affection we can go pass the brahmajyoti and enter Vaikuntha and if we become very advanced, go even beyond there.

 

Correct me if I am wrong.

 

 

[muralidhar_das 0]

 

From the impersonal brahmajyoti effulgence we can see the heavenly planets of the demigods and also the Vaikuntha planets.

 

It is from there that we, because of our free will are able to decide where we want to be, in Vaikuntha as an eternal servant of The Lord or become a demigod and enjoy material pleasures.

 

We turned our eyes away from Vaikuntha and decided to come here, that was our mistake.

 

 

 

 

My understanding is that when the souls are merged in sayujya-mukti they are adoring God who they see as an Impersonal Being. These worshippers of "formless god" are listed by Sri Chaitanyadeva as "santa-bhaktas".

 

Their jnana is limited and they cannot see all of Vaikuntha.

 

They can see worlds in universes created by Maya and they think of themself as someone who is "above" Maya. They think the same way as the Lord of Maya, and regard Maya as an illusion.

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj explained this to me, and told me this verse:

 

"Pasa baddha bhavet jiva, pasa mukta sada shiva"

 

The word pasa means "animal" as in the case of Ganesha. Shiva is called "Pasupati".

 

When the animate being (animal) is in illusion he is a jiva; when he is liberated he is merged with Shiva.

 

 

<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Originally Posted by Śrī Caitanya

Madhya 24.164

ei saba śānta yabe bhaje bhagavān

'śānta' bhakta kari' tabe kahi tāńra nāma

"These thirteen types of yogīs and munis are called śānta-bhaktas, for they render transcendental loving service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead in the neutral stage.

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Amongst the thirteen types of yogis and munis:

 

 

<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Originally Posted by Śrī Caitanya

Madhya 24.155

sagarbha, nigarbha, — ei haya dui bheda

eka eka tina bhede chaya vibheda

TRANSLATION

"The two types of ātmārāma-yogīs are called sagarbha and nigarbha. Each of these is divided into three; therefore there are six types of worshipers of the Supersoul.

PURPORT

The word sagarbha-yogī refers to a yogī who worships the Supersoul in the Viṣṇu form. The nigarbha-yogī worships the Supersoul without form. The sagarbha and nigarbha yogīs are further categorized: (1) sagarbha-yogārurukṣu, (2) nigarbha-yogārurukṣu, (3) sagarbha-yogārūḍha, (4) nigarbha-yogārūḍha, (5) sagarbha-prāpta-siddhi and (6) nigarbha-prāpta-siddhi.

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So, included within the list of souls who Mahaprabhu calls "santa-bhaktas" (Madhya 24.164) there is that category of souls who worship the "formless Absolute" (Brahman).

[Guest guest]

Muralidhar pr:

"I cannot find anything like what you are quoting from that shastra."

This is Kusakratha prabhu's translation. I cannot find the same part in the text you pasted.

Could you tell me which is the appropriate part from your version?

[muralidhar_das 0]

Prabhu,

 

I cannot find anything like it at all\

 

I searched and studied all the places where the word "vaikuntha" is written. No places in the book seem to say anything like the section you quoted

 

sorry

[Guest guest]

Devarsirat pr:

"From the impersonal brahmajyoti effulgence we can see the heavenly planets of the demigods and also the Vaikuntha planets."

 

But Bhaktivinoda Thakura uses the word "glances" in another context.

 

First He describes the eternally liberated soul. Than he describes what happens when he (the eternally liberated soul) glances at maya. He speaks about the same jivas:

 

"They are eternally liberated. Love for the Lord is their entire life. What are

grief, death, and fear they do not know. When He glances at Maya..."

 

The jiva is eternally liberated IF(!!!) he doesn't glances at maya. When the jiva glances at maya, he has to go to the material world.

 

The jiva is on the border of matter and spirit. That is his nature. But:

 

-when he glances at Krishna he is an eternally liberated soul never touches maya. He's eternally liberated, because he doesn't glances at maya.

 

(The word "eternally" does not mean that he will never glance at maya. This interpretation is according to the material conception of time. In the spiritual world there is no time like in our world. So the meaning of eternal in the spiritual world is something like the meaning of the word "indestructibility". So this is a stage not an adverb of time.)

 

-when he glances at maya, he have to go to the material world.

 

So the position of the jiva is depend on what he glaces at.