Jahnava Nitai Das 2 Report post Posted May 31, 2001 Here is a link to a series of just released letters written by the Swamijis from the ashta-matha in Udupi. This should put to rest all doubts and rumours spread by a so-called official dvaita website. All the claims given by Shirsha Rao were false. http://www.gosai.com/dvaita/udupi/ You can see the original scanned letters as well as the english translation. Here is Sri Pejavar's statement in English: We are rather perturbed to come across an article said to contain a statemant issued by Poornaprajna Vidyapeetha about Madhwa and Gaudiya Sampradayas. We have been emphasizing time and again that even though there are certain difference in a few aspects of the two Sampradayas, there are many more common grounds and Gaudiya Sampradaya is a part of Madhwa Sampradaya. We have great regard for Prabhupada who has spread Vaisnava Bhakti Siddhanta throughout the world. We have been admiring him on various occasions also. We are pained to find that the article denigrates Prabhupada and is against our opinion and philosophy. The whole issue will be reviewed and in our capacity as the chancellor of Poornaprajna Vidyapeeta, a message will be shortly published to strengthen the mutual harmonious relationship between the Sampradayas. Sri Sri Vishwesa Tirtha Swamiji Pejavara Swami It doesn't get any clearer than that. [This message has been edited by jndas (edited 05-31-2001).] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jahnava Nitai Das 2 Report post Posted May 31, 2001 Looks like I was wrong... it does get clearer than that! Here is Shiroor Swamiji's statement. Sri Shiroor Mutt, Udupi Jadadguru Sri Sri Madhwacharya Peethan Udupi, South Candra Friend of our Samsthanam Poojya Sri Narasingha Swamy Sri Narasingha Chaitanya Mutt, Sri Rangapatna, Mysore Ref: Re: Mispropoganda in www.Dvaita.org between "Sri Madhwacharya and Chaitanya Pantha." Sri Chaitanya Sampradaya is a branch of Madhwa philosophy. there are historic proofs to substantiate this fact. The sadhana achieved by Sri A. C. Prabhupada, Acharya of "Chaitanya Sampradaya" is to be welcomed by all Vaishnavites. It is due to him people all over the world have learned about Lord Krishna. This work should have been accomplished by Madhwa followers. But Prabhupada has served the world in propagating this cult. Even in the western world he has attracted a large number of devotees of Lord Krishna, through his discourse on "Bhagavat Geeta." The book on "Bhagavat Geeta" of Sri Prabhupada is allowed to be sold in front of Krishna Mandira at Udupi. This fact is known to all eight mutts of Udupi. As well as all devotees of Udupi Kshetra. Therefore, the blame cast on Sri Prabhupada is to be deemed as the blame on Sri Hari, Vayu and Guru. This type of behavior is not to be found in a brahmin. As such, it is a bad affair to note that a Vaishnava has exhibited such a behavior. Such contradictory statements do create split in the Vaishnava Society and do not promote any good on the Society. Therefore we oppose the points relayed through the website. Sri Laksmivara Tirtha Swami Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jahnava Nitai Das 2 Report post Posted May 31, 2001 Kaniyoor Swamiji says Sri Chaitanya received sannyasa diksha from Vyasa Tirtha. Sri Vidyavallaba Tirtha Swamiji Sri Kaniyoor Mutt Car Street, Udupi 576101 Some argue that there is no relationship between "Chaitanya prabhu parampara" and "Sri Madhwacharya parampara." We wish to put forth our opinion on the matter. According to our views, Sri Chaitanya prabhu having embraced "virakti," approached Sri Vysatheertha, who belongs to the Madhwacharya's traditional Vyasaraya Mutt. Sri Vyasatheertha graced him offering "deeksha" to him and commanded him to spread the philosophic ideals fo Sri Madhwacharya. As a result of his propaganda, Mutts with "Gaudiya Tradition" emerged and this is an historic event. While glancing through the aforesaid historic event, it is evident that there exists a deep relationship between "Chaitanya parampara" and "Madhwa parampara." Therefore it is necessary that no one should wound the feelings of Chaitanya Prabhupada, making comments on him. We humbly appeal to one and all to encourage the philosophic ideals of Sri Chaitanya Prabhupada and see this propaganda grows further without obstacles. Sri Vidyavallaba Tirtha Swamiji Kaniyoor Swami Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shvu 1 Report post Posted May 31, 2001 This should put to rest all doubts and rumours spread by a so-called official dvaita website. All the claims given by Shirsha Rao were false. 1. Shrisha Rao has never claimed anywhere that www.dvaita.org is an official web site. All it says is that it is the web resource for Sri Madhvacharya's doctrine. 2. There are no rumors posted on the website. if so, show one. The paper has been issued directly by the Poorna Prajna Vidya Peetha. 3. The letters in the gosai website, do not say anywhere that the material is false or made up of rumors. Neither do these letters say that the web-site is falsely claiming to be an official one. It has been stated that the philosophies are different. If someone disagrees with that, they should come up with a professional rebuttal showing where exactly the problem or "rumor" is. Finally, let us see what the dvaitins have to say about these letters. That will make things clear. Cheers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maitreya 0 Report post Posted May 31, 2001 How nice indeed to return home and find this thread. MC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gauracandra 1 Report post Posted May 31, 2001 Agreed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shvu 1 Report post Posted May 31, 2001 According to our views, Sri Chaitanya prabhu having embraced "virakti," approached Sri Vysatheertha, who belongs to the Madhwacharya's traditional Vyasaraya Mutt. Interesting. Looks like Vidyavallabha Thirta Swami has not read the Chaitanya Charitamrita. If he had, he would have known that Chaitanya came to Udipi and "defeated" a nameless tattva-vada Acharya [x] in debate. In fact, x sat silently, while Chaitanya went on giving argument after argument, referring to tattva-vada as "Your sampradaya". In the end, x was defeated. It would be interesting to know what this Swamiji will say, if he comes to know about the Gaudiya version of Chaitanya's Udipi trip, which is a very different story from his own. Sri Vyasatheertha graced him offering "deeksha" to him and commanded him to spread the philosophic ideals fo Sri Madhwacharya. Which obviously was not done by Chaitanya. The bulk of the followers of Chaitanya will not be able to name a single work of Madhva. Cheers [This message has been edited by shvu (edited 05-31-2001).] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shvu 1 Report post Posted May 31, 2001 For those who are wondering what this is all about, visit http://www.dvaita.org/iskcon.html Cheers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jahnava Nitai Das 2 Report post Posted May 31, 2001 Originally posted by shvu: 1. Shrisha Rao has never claimed anywhere that www.dvaita.org is an official web site. All it says is that it is the web resource for Sri Madhvacharya's doctrine. I didn't mention Shrisha Rao at all. Funny you bring up his name. You seem to be stuck on old news. 2. There are no rumors posted on the website. if so, show one. The paper has been issued directly by the Poorna Prajna Vidya Peetha. There are plenty of rumors in the dvaita list archives, hosted on that site. Many of them are posted by the person you mentioned above, but that isn't important anyway. He claimed to have had an official letter from Pejavar Swamiji denying various statements. The letter was a fraud. 3. The letters in the gosai website, do not say anywhere that the material is false or made up of rumors. Neither do these letters say that the web-site is falsely claiming to be an official one. Mispropoganda in www.Dvaita.org between "Sri Madhwacharya and Chaitanya Pantha." Mispropaganda is a strong word. Regardless, I never said the website claimed to be official. I said it was a 'so-called' official website, as several un-named people have stated this. Nothing to do with whether the website makes this claim or not. Finally, let us see what the dvaitins have to say about these letters. That will make things clear. Perhaps you missed it. Those messages at the top of this thread are what the dvaitins say. For some reason you think a few software engineers in New jersey who run a dvaita website are "the dwaitins". For me the acharyas and swamijis of the ashta mathas are the dwaitins. When our ashram was located in Udupi, Shiroor Swamiji visited our ashram dozens of times. We worked with him on many occassions. I can tell you what his opinion of Chaitanya and Prabhupada is from first hand experience. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shvu 1 Report post Posted May 31, 2001 If not anything else, Vidya Vallaba Thirta Swami has to definitely read the incident from Navadwipa Dham mahatmya where Chaitanya went back in time, appeared in Madhva's dream and told him to secretly worship him. That, in my opinion, will change the Swamiji's stance quickly enough. Unfortunately most of the matha Pontiff's of South India do not know english and also do not log into discussion forums on the web. Otherwise much of this confusion would have been avoided. This shows how important the internet is. Cheers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jahnava Nitai Das 2 Report post Posted May 31, 2001 Originally posted by shvu: Looks like Vidyavallabha Thirta Swami has not read the Chaitanya Charitamrita. If he had, he would have known that Chaitanya came to Udipi and "defeated" a nameless tattva-vada Acharya [x] in debate. In fact, x sat silently, while Chaitanya went on giving argument after argument, referring to tattva-vada as "Your sampradaya". In the end, x was defeated. You always think others are more foolish and less well read than yourself. The fact is Chaitanya's visit to Udupi as described in Chaitanya Charitamrita is known by him. I think your version is a littled stretched. Sri Vyasatheertha graced him offering "deeksha" to him and commanded him to spread the philosophic ideals fo Sri Madhwacharya. Which obviously was not done by Chaitanya. The bulk of the followers of Chaitanya will not be able to name a single work of Madhva. Have you met the bulk of Chaitanya's followers and asked them? Just curious, because you seem to have found they just weren't as bright as you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jahnava Nitai Das 2 Report post Posted May 31, 2001 Originally posted by shvu: If not anything else, Vidya Vallaba Thirta Swami has to definitely read the incident from Navadwipa Dham mahatmya where Chaitanya went back in time, appeared in Madhva's dream and told him to secretly worship him. That, in my opinion, will change the Swamiji's stance quickly enough. You assume we haven't discussed this with him? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shvu 1 Report post Posted May 31, 2001 I didn't mention Shrisha Rao at all. Funny you bring up his name. You seem to be stuck on old news. All the claims given by Shirsha Rao were false. This is the exact line that you have posted. He claimed to have had an official letter from Pejavar Swamiji denying various statements. The letter was a fraud. You know this how? That would mean that the Pejavara Swamiji did say that he was like a speck of dust at the feet of Prabhupada. Mispropoganda in www.Dvaita.org between "Sri Madhwacharya and Chaitanya Pantha." Mispropaganda is a strong word. Nothing to do with rumors. Regardless, I never said the website claimed to be official. I said it was a 'so-called' official website, as several un-named people have stated this. Nothing to do with whether the website makes this claim or not. This argument will be valid, if someone related to the web-site, such as Shrisha Rao, stated so. He has not done so anywhere and you are not coming up with any other names either. Perhaps you missed it. Those messages at the top of this thread are what the dvaitins say. For some reason you think a few software engineers in New jersey who run a dvaita website are "the dwaitins". For me the acharyas and swamijis of the ashta mathas are the dwaitins. The Swamijis are dvaitins for me too. But let us wait to hear what the dvaita.org people say. It is quite possible that there may have been a misunderstanding somewhere. Or maybe not. Either way, a clarification from the CMS or PPVP will make things clear. btw, as far as I know, Shrisha rao is not a software engineer and does not live in NJ. Of course, the web server maybe in NJ. When our ashram was located in Udupi, Shiroor Swamiji visited our ashram dozens of times. We worked with him on many occassions. I can tell you what his opinion of Chaitanya and Prabhupada is from first hand experience. Accepted. This Swamiji laudes Prabhupada on his unique achievement of preaching the BG in western countries and making Krishna popular world-wide. No one on the dvaita web site has disagreed with that. The only point in the web-site is the difference in philosophies. Cheers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shvu 1 Report post Posted May 31, 2001 You always think others are more foolish and less well read than yourself. Assumptions, assumptions. The fact is Chaitanya's visit to Udupi as described in Chaitanya Charitamrita is known by him. I think your version is a littled stretched. Hardly. If so, he would have raised an objection that the CC version for it does not tally with his version in anyway. You will have to do better than this. Have you met the bulk of Chaitanya's followers and asked them? Just curious, because you seem to have found they just weren't as bright as you. Doesn't seem to be a question of brightness to me. The Gaudiya philosophy does not teach Madhva's works. From that, my conclusion is obvious. It is not exactly rocket scientist material, I would think. You assume we haven't discussed this (Navadwipa dham) with him? Did you do that? Like I said before, I am very interested to know his reaction to that and how he accepted chaitanya as an avatar going against Sri Madhva's teachings. Especially, if he has written this letter after knowing about the Navadwipa Dham dream, it is doubly interesting. Cheers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jahnava Nitai Das 2 Report post Posted May 31, 2001 "All the claims given by Shirsha Rao were false." This is the exact line that you have posted. You are absolutely right on this one. I am trying to do to many things simultaneously and I can't remember what I wrote. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jahnava Nitai Das 2 Report post Posted May 31, 2001 All the claims given by Shirsha Rao were false. I should clarify that statement. It wasn't in reference to the dvaita site being "official". Since the two sentences were next to each other, it may have seemed like that. It had to do with a number of claims made by Mr. Rao in regards to Prabhupada/Chaitanya and their link to the Madhva line, as well as a claimed letter from Pejavar Swamiji. Perhaps if I get time I will post some of them from the dvaita list. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gauracandra 1 Report post Posted May 31, 2001 These letters are really nice in their glorification of Srila Prabhupada. What is amazing to me is not only the letters, but that the devotee has published the literal handwritten statements of these other acharyas, as well as photo documentation of their presence before these acharyas. I think their statements are wonderful. Gauracandra Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shvu 1 Report post Posted May 31, 2001 No problem. Prima facie, your posting gives one the impression that Shrisha Rao claimed his website to be official. I just got in touch with him and another person from PPVP, in Bangalore. They had no idea about these letters and are suprised. They are going to find out what is going on. Hopefully this letter mystery will be solved soon. Cheers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jahnava Nitai Das 2 Report post Posted May 31, 2001 Its amazing how fast news spreads on the internet. I bet these letters were posted a couple hours ago. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jahnava Nitai Das 2 Report post Posted May 31, 2001 It's very nice that the swamijis have finally put their words in writing. Those of us who have associated with these swamijis have heard these statements from them for years, but everyone questioned the validity of the claims. Hopefully, with these letters, this should put aside the doubts regarding their statements. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jahnava Nitai Das 2 Report post Posted May 31, 2001 Sri Shiroor Swamiji (Lakshmivara Tirtha Swamiji) has said it quite beautifully: Therefore, the blame cast on Sri Prabhupada is to be deemed as the blame on Sri Hari, Vayu and Guru. This type of behavior is not to be found in a brahmin. As such, it is a bad affair to note that a Vaishnava has exhibited such a behavior. Such contradictory statements do create split in the Vaishnava Society and do not promote any good on the Society. Therefore we oppose the points relayed through the website. Shiroor Swamiji was the one who first made arrangements for Prabhupda's Gita to be sold in front of Udupi Krishna temple. Till this day it is being sold there. Years ago, even I have done this seva of distributing Prabhupada's Gita in front of Udupi Krishna temple to the pilgrims. It is in Shiroor Matha that the Gitas are stored everyday in the evening! Yet some Madhva followers in America, illusioned by pride, deride this holy text of Prabhupada's Gita in the name of their acharyas. They say Prabhupada lied through his teeth. But now who has been found to be lying? It is quite ironic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dasanudas 0 Report post Posted May 31, 2001 It's very reassuring that the true essence of Gaudiya Vaisnavism, Madhva Vaisnavism and Gaudiya-Madhva Vaisnavism is alive and well. And there are those within it who are practising that essence of both Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Sri Madhvacharyas teachings in unity or separate for the benefit of the whole human race.It takes the vision and heart of the mahabhagavats to harmonise any apparent different differences in all the teachings emanating from divinity I especially relish this wonderful more than good news of proper honor to Caitanya Prabhupad as is only befitting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shvu 1 Report post Posted May 31, 2001 But now who has been found to be lying? Who? Cheers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 1, 2001 These are futile and politic letters made by professionals. They would eulogize Ramakrsna, Vivekananda, and any other person who could make a similar work of boardcasting sanatana-dharma in foreign countries if it was necessary. The basic objection is: "Tattva-vadis do reject Sri Caitanya's divinty." All the other considerations are secondary. These swamis would never agree with the premise made by Gaudiyas on Sri Caitanya's divinity. Never. Never. Never. No matter what kind of flowered letters they may write. dasa dasanudasa Satyaraja dasa Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jahnava Nitai Das 2 Report post Posted June 1, 2001 Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa: These are futile and politic letters made by professionals. Have you ever met any of these acharyas? You have a bad habit of talking without any first hand experience. You are willing to criticize these people, despite you never having met them, never having spoken to them, and never knowing a thing about them. I have met these people. They are sadhus, they are Vaishnavas. Simply because you disagree with their philosophy you like to denigrate them. Is this something your guru taught you, or did you learn this yourself? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
