Devotion

[shvu 1]

 

Here are two of the best verses from Bhagavatam,

 

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He on whom I am going to bestow my grace, I slowly deprive him of all his wealth. When his wealth is gone, his friends, kith and kin desert him, making him sink into utmost sorrow and despair. - The Bhagavatam 10.88.8

 

When his further efforts to gain wealth also fail, thanks to my will, he becomes filled with dispassion and gets associated with my devotees. On such a one I bestow my grace. - The Bhagavatam 10.88.9

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Most [perhaps all] of us don't want to let go of any of our possessions and our attachments. My people, my Family, my wealth, etc. Although the religious books repeatedly stress on Vairagya [detachment], none of us want to do that. We somehow hope that we can have all this plus God. It is like we want an omelette, but want to have the egg intact too. A simple term for this kind of an attitude is greed.

 

I have observed that several of the devotees have this belief that once they begin to worship God, their material problems will be taken care of by the Lord. Unfortunately it does not work that way and the above verse is in fact against that. With this kind of an attitude, all the effort and time put in, will be of no use. We will live in hope and will die in hope. Like millions have done before us.

 

We don't really want to be free at the cost of giving everything up. So we are content with Pujas, Mantras, reading the Gita, and hoping that we will get detached tomorrow, sometime in the future, but NOT now. When tomorrow comes, it will be postponed to the day after tomorrow. We are just playing games, whether we are ready to admit it or not. It is a kind of escape from the problems of daily life, like watching a movie, but thinking that we are doing something wonderful. A thousand Janmas of such devotion will fetch nothing, and there is no other kind of devotion.

 

So what is one to do ?

We can do nothing, except continue to do whatever we are doing, keep chasing that image that we have in our memory and continue to hope. But as long as we cling on to our possessions, one can be sure that NOTHING will happen. And if a person makes a conscious decision to be detached, then he or she is doing that in order to get something else, and is of no use.

 

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Among thousands of men, on perchance struggles for perfection; even amongst those who struggle, one perchance becomes perfect, and even amongst those who are perfect, one perchance knows me in reality. - The Gita 7.3

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Cheers

[viji_53 0]

Dear shvu,

You are confusing devotion with renunciation. Devotion is beginning in spiritual path. It will slowly control your senses & make you progress in the spiritual path. In Gita also Bhagavan said the goal of this life is to reach Him. That can be done by 3 yogas. Only in the 18th chapter He says renounce the idea of attainig Mukthi also & let you surrender unto Me & I will take care of you. That is why that chapter is called as Moksha Sanyasa yogaha. So there is nothing wrong in cultivating devotion with some motive. When you progress you will realize we need not desire for anything & you will be happy with what ever you get. We live in hope. With same hope let us live to attain Him through devotion.

[shvu 1]

 

Dear Viji,

 

I have pointed out that renouncing in order to get something, is of no use.

 

The above posting is for some people who think that 'I have been devout for such a long time, why doesn't anything happen ?'

 

Nothing will happen, for all the reasons mentioned above.

 

Cheers

[shvu 1]

 

You cannot realize Him if you have the least bit of attachment in you. A thread with ever so few ragged fibers won't pass through the eye of a needle.

 

- Ramakrishna Paramahamsa

 

It is easier for a camel to enter the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.

 

- Jesus Christ

 

When you are not ready to part with your money, how can you even think of enlightenment ?

 

- UG

 

Cheers

[ggohil 0]

Hare Krsna:

 

My understanding:

 

Devotion goes on, regardless of any material or spiritual gain.

 

In devotion, if or when one will develops love for God or Krsna then he will derive happiness and bliss from his relationship with God. At this point, gain or loss of material possession becomes irrelevant.

[ggohil 0]

Hari Hari

 

Dear Jayasriradhey

 

Thank you for making it clear for me.

 

Girish

[Dasha 0]

Dear J.S.R.

 

I particularly relish the lecture of your posting on this topic, but it makes me feel bad as far as my "devotion " to God is concerne.

 

All that you explain on unmotivated devotion or selfless love for God brings me to the realisation that whatever effort I am doing (in the form of sadhana) to approach God was in fact very selfishly motivated.

 

What can I give to Krsna? Money? I just have enough to maintain my family.

So I try to grow vegs in my garden to offer Him, but it is motivated by the need to nourish myself and my family. So I chant His Holy Name, but here again my inner motivation is to get rid of this material entanglement.

 

Where is the place for selfless pure love?

 

Krsna is and as everything, and I have nothing, so how can I have ALWAYS a CONSTANT LONGING to RECEIVE and NOT GIVE.

What can I do other than beg from Him that He gives me Himself PURE LOVE for Him. But, by my conditioning, this prayer cannot be PURE , UNMOTIVATED and SINCERE.

 

Hopping that Radha and Krsna will be very, very mercyfull for my fallen soul,

 

Namaste

 

 

[Dasha 0]

Sorry I wanted to say:

 

Krsna is and as everything, and I have nothing, so how can I have ALWAYS a CONSTANT LONGING to GIVE and NOT RECEIVE

instead of:

ALWAYS a CONSTANT LONGING to RECEIVE and NOT GIVE

 

[shvu 1]

Hi Dasha,

 

That sounded very sincere. Don't worry because 100% of all humans can only pray to get something. It is impossible to do something without a reason. Don't feel like the odd person out. You are not doing anything wrong. What you are doing is what all the Gurus suggested too.

 

Continue to do whatever you are doing with the same intensity and faith. If there is such a thing as God and such a thing as unconditonal true devotional love, it will certainly happen. An all-knowing God knows what is good for you.

 

Good luck

[ggohil 0]

Jai Sri Krsna:

 

My understanding:

 

In beginning all the activities performed in devotion will be selfish. However, in time with, with

help of his Grace, one gradually will learn to perform activities which are selfless. And one will

begin to enjoy eternal pleasure in performing these activities.

[gtam 0]

Hi,

Wonderful explalnations.Elsewhere in the web I happened to read some expanations and it apt to mention them.

 

1)In the discusion of devotees even there is an arguement they are still talking about God.

If one of them even decides to start a mission of his own that also in a way contributes spreading the word in every part of the world.

 

2)If in the process of understanding spiritual concepts if some appear to be unclear then we cannot decide the conclusion on our own.We must think that its not in our perception ( when we are not able to understand )due to our limited senses.

 

It made sense to me after such a long time and long contemplation.I am humbled by the doubts raised in this forum,the quotes pointed out,the explanation of various concepts,the devotion expressed and definitely the vast knowledge of scriptures.

 

I request all the devotees of this forum to bless me1) to make progress in devotion of the mind to the Lord 2) to seek the protection of the Lord and his consort from the forces of Maya.

 

obiesances and pleading for apology for mistakes commited by me while inthe clutches of Maya.

 

 

Thank you

 

 

 

[Dasha 0]

Dear Jay Sri Radhey, Girishji and Shivji

 

I thank you all for your enlightenment and encouragement, but a special thank for Jay Sri Radhey for the variegated treasures that she bestows upon our head and heart.

 

Never will I be able to get enough time and opportunity to collect all these variegated scriptures, so I sincerely thank God who distributes His mercy through your channel, via the Web.

 

All glories to Sri Sri Radha and Krsna

[ggohil 0]

Jai Sri RadheyKrsna:

 

Dear Dasha:

 

I am not a scholar and my mind is too corrupted with Maya to be a devotee.

 

However, I am hoping and praying that one day, with help of blessings from his devotees, the Lord will favor me with his grace.

 

Girish

[animesh 0]

________

but a special thank for Jay Sri Radhey for the variegated treasures that she bestows upon our head and heart.

________

 

Is Jayasriradhey ji a "she"? A few days back, I saw a post by Shvu. In that also, he had used "she". How could you guys know this? I never guessed.:-)

 

[Dasha 0]

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"Therefore think of Me at all times and fight."

 

"O Son of PrthA,(Arjuna)one who, having single MINDED love and attention,REMEMBERS Me uninterruptedly throughout his life, to that devotee,(raganuga-yogi) of constant devotion and concentration I am EASILY attainable."

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Krsna is saying that CONSTANT remembrance of Him while executing our duty is the only way to go back to His abode. He is directing Arjuna to fight AND never stop to think of Him.

 

Elsewhere in this forum, on the Sanyasa topic, JNDAS Prabhu said that sanyasa (renuncement) means to execute his own duty but without the desire to enjoy material pleasure from it. In other words we may be a grihasta but have the sanyasa spirit if we execute our duty of father while absorbed constantly in divine love.

 

My point is that you cannot always give up everything, and this not recommended.

The example of Arjuna to who Krsna said to fight on the battle field, but HE HAD TO THINK OF HIM CONSTANTLY, is the best, but we are in the same condition. We have to execute our duty, but THINK OF KRSNA CONSTANTLY if we want to go back home.

 

Is there anybody who can explain me how did Arjuna was able to concentrate on the battle and the fighting (in this situation you have to be very sharp if you want to keep alive) and at the same time be absorbed in KRSNA.

It is the same for us, How can I do my job correctly and be thinking of KRSNA all day long.

 

You can put only one thing at a time in the mind, if you are concentrate on your job you cannot think of KRSNA and vice versa. (I am not thinking of the blessed one whose duty is to serve KRSNA directly).

 

In the Mahabarata we see how Arjuna was absorbed all day in the battle, how was he able to have KRSNA constantly in his mind at the same time?

 

If anybody has an explanation, it would be welcome

 

Your servant

 

[gtam 0]

Hi,

Thanks for the awakening quotes reminding, refuge,surrender and devotion being the path taken for experiencing bliss.

Thanks

[amanpeter 0]

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Author

Topic: Devotion

shvu

posted 12-06-2000 07:37 PM PT (US)

 

 

Here are two of the best verses from Bhagavatam,

 

---

He on whom I am going to bestow my grace, I slowly deprive him of all his wealth. When his wealth is gone, his

friends, kith and kin desert him, making him sink into utmost sorrow and despair. - The Bhagavatam 10.88.8

 

When his further efforts to gain wealth also fail, thanks to my will, he becomes filled with dispassion and gets

associated with my devotees. On such a one I bestow my grace. - The Bhagavatam 10.88.9<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

Actually, this has been the story of my life, since first encountering ISKCON in 1971. They kept telling me how fortunate I was to be the recipient of `special mercy`, before heading back to their homes and families. Now I'm utterly alone on meager government disability without a spiritual OR material life watching this wretched body quickly approach 60 years of age. Now I'm told, "It could be worse!" Great! If I could, I'd wipe it all away at any cost. That's what I think of Sri Krsna and His `special mercy` right now. Of course, things could change. Sure, they'll most probably get worse! Peter