Religion and God--are they related?

[Subham 0]

Hari OM:

 

What is the relation ship between Religion and God?

 

1) God created all religions

 

2) God created only one religion

 

3) God created no religion

 

 

1) Unless God's intention was to create chaos and confusion, he would not have created all religions

 

2) If he had created only one religion, it means Man (or Satan) is as capable as God in creating religions, as well their creations are competing with God's religion for Hundreds of years with no clear winner (So either God is not a perfect creator or the religion creating man is as perfect as God)

 

3) so i think religion is not created by God, all religions are created by Wise men (with varying degree of intelligence, goodness and compassion)

 

If God has not created religion, this also implies that He is not interested (or desperate) in Men coming back to Him, He has given full freedom to Men for doing whatever he likes, including coming back to Him , no particular option is preferred option by Him.

 

The most opposite argument for this is the statement "I love my devotees" in Gita.

 

Generally this is mis-intereperted as "I hate my non-devotees" pulling God to our level.

 

Rather we should see this in the whole context of Gita wherein is stated that God reciprocates whatever man does.

 

That is if you love Him ( a devotee is one who loves Him), then He loves you

 

If you Pray Him , Then He blesses you

 

If you request Him, Then He provides you

 

If you Seek Him, Then He reveals to you

 

If you ignore Him, Then He ignores you

 

So it is your choice and He is not imposing anything on you , not even religion, Of course whatever you do you should do it sincerely other wise it is of no use.

[Guest guest]

all know this. talk some thing new.

[Sephiroth 0]

1) Unless God's intention was to create chaos and confusion, he would not have created all religions

 

Wrong ... that is an atheist's view, that God created confusion.

 

In order for humans to evolve, suffering is required. In order for humans to know which is true and which is false, confusion is required.

 

As can be seen from the Puranas (from Mastya Avatar all the way to Sri Krishna), God have been pushing Man to evolve pass its animalistic background to a higher form. That had been His goal then and it is His goal now.

 

Humans MUST suffer in order to know the Truth, to know WHO is God and in order to HOW to go back to Him. That is His purpose and its not hidden like some claims. God don't work in mysterious ways, His ways is just beyond those who don't understand Nature and role of Man on this world.

[Subham 0]

Hari OM:

 

i don't how do you know that what ALL knows and what ALL does not know. You may not even know what you Know, so rephrase your statement as "I know this", don't assume you are a representative of ALL (no body had given you that post)

 

"talk some thing new"-- instead of requesting me, why don't you talk some thing new (which ALL does not know) and entertain ALL?

[Sephiroth 0]

Then why is Lord Vishnu's devotees fighting with Lord Shiva's and vice versa in the forum?

 

Then why don't anyone see that both Lord Vishnu and Lord Shiva (with Lord Brahma as well) is one and the same as what Bhavagad Gita mentioned?

 

 

Nope ... many are blind. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Guest guest]

"1) God created all religions

2) God created only one religion

3) God created no religion"

 

 

•••god created (=creates) many religions

 

religion means, according to bhagavad gita, the presence of a "tattva darshinah"(one who sees god) who teachs direct disciples

 

everything else, even if perfect in respecting rules and philosophies, is not a religion.. is a human organization who can give some benefit but not the conclusive goal of liberation

 

if the last illuminated person in a path is gone away.. it is not a spiritual path, religion

 

and who is not an initiated and actively following disciple of an illuminated tattva darshinah master is not a religious man.. a spiritualist

[Subham 0]

Hari OM:

 

if God created many religions, then which one should i follow? which one should i reject? if i reject some thing, then am i not rejecting some thing which God had created? also how do i decide which of the many religions he had created should i follow?

 

i am not sure of "tattvah darsinah" concept please state the chapter and Canto of Gita, will try to read and understand it.

 

a more involved question, how do i know my master is a "tattva darshinah" ? think about this- any body can come and tell "I am a tattva darshinah" but unless i am myself a "tattva darshinah" i can't differeniate between the real and duplicate one ,( a Student can't grade his master), and if i am myself a "tattva darshinah" then i don't need another one to illuminate me.

 

[ a non-related funny incident here, not meant as offense to anybody, all cardinals gather together and cast their vote and select a Pope, excellent democratic principle, you may say, but just think about it, as per definition a Pope is a more advanced spiritual person than a Cardinal, so how do Cardinals decide who is the best Pope, again like many students joining together and grading a teacher, only teacher can grade students not the other way around]

 

So we (You+I) have to think deeply and analyse lot more before coming to any conclusion.

[Guest guest]

if God created many religions, then which one should i follow?

••choose something who has some logic for you and go searching some illuminated person to ask directly advices and corrections. I have found people like that in sanatana dharma, i cannot exclude that someone like them is in other paths...

 

i am not sure of "tattvah darsinah" concept

••••

Chapter 4. Transcendental Knowledge

 

TEXT 34

 

tad viddhi pranipatena

pariprasnena sevaya

upadeksyanti te jnanam

jnaninas tattva-darsinah

 

SYNONYMS

tat--that knowledge of different sacrifices; viddhi--try to understand; pranipatena--by approaching a spiritual master; pariprasnena--by submissive inquiries; sevaya--by the rendering of service; upadeksyanti--initiate; te--unto you; jnanam--knowledge; jnaninah--the self-realized; tattva--truth; darsinah--the seers.

 

TRANSLATION

Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth.

 

--

 

tattva darshinah, who sees the absolute truth, god...

 

--

 

how do i know my master is a "tattva darshinah" ?

••a)read in the gita the chapter "divine qualities"............. b)pray intensely god to be blessed by a spiritual master. Honestly there's no other possible advice, if not saying to you who's my master and recomending you to see him and make question to see if you feel right to accept him.

If you want it, i will say to you his name and some informative links..

 

a Student can't grade his master

••you are right.. the only thing is that in a valid school everyday we learn something good and valuable. If this does not happens, we are more honest of we leave.

So we will understand the 100% of the truth about our master only when we'll be masters (and our master is master to make us masters..), but day by day we can see this percentage increasing

 

for the pope's election system you are completely right

 

--

 

So we (You+I) have to think deeply and analyse lot more before coming to any conclusion.

••you are right... but finding a spiritual master is the only way.

My mind cannot capture God, and God not everyday make miracles like with st'Paul at Damascus... So we have to search personally for our "Damascus" (=the spiritual master, transparent medium to see God) or we will reach nothing

 

 

[Subham 0]

"If you want it, i will say to you his name and some informative links.."

 

Thank you and i would be grate ful for that.

 

i agree with you that Praying intensely to God is the only available way for liberation (either He directly liberates, or shows a true spiritual master who can Guide me in liberation)

 

also i understand that the attraction to His material energy (the world) is what preventing me in progressing in spiritual path and also confident (or hopeful) that would achieve liberation if not in this birth at least the next, by His Grace.

 

 

[Guest guest]

my gurudeva is Srila Bhakti Vaibhava Puri Goswami Maharaja.. he currently lives in puri, orissa

 

http://www.srilapurimaharaja.org/

www.iskcon.it/prabhupadadesh/purim.wmv

 

thanks for the nice exchange

[barney 0]

He has given his veiw and that seems ok. I dpn't understand your remark. Please, you cannot expect others to write what you think is right. Don't be selfish.

[barney 0]

@@In order for humans to evolve, suffering is required. In order for humans to know which is true and which is false, confusion is required.@@

 

Is that what you think? I'm sorry but you only make me laugh....excuse me but I just can't stop laughing. You boast of knowing all but your comment tickles me.....

 

Great! You have now been ordained master of masters.

 

@@As can be seen from the Puranas (from Mastya Avatar all the way to Sri Krishna), God have been pushing Man to evolve pass its animalistic background to a higher form. That had been His goal then and it is His goal now.@@

 

What goal are you talking about? God is God and he need not set goals like we human. It's we who set goals to achieve this and that. It is man who think he knows all things and can be a master to all. God is the creator and a silent obsever not the motivator. I think you are having some problem there and please consult your motivator where you have gone wrong.

 

 

@@

Humans MUST suffer in order to know the Truth, to know WHO is God and in order to HOW to go back to Him. That is His purpose and its not hidden like some claims. God don't work in mysterious ways, His ways is just beyond those who don't understand Nature and role of Man on this world.@@

 

Please tell that to the Eutopians. Tell the poor child with rib cage petruding out that God wants it to suffer in order to know HIM. Please do not talk .. If you do not understand ask some divine gurus or a Vethathi like Parasarathi. Don't give statement like this and contradict yourself and later pretend that you are spotless.

 

 

[maadhav 0]

<< 3) so i think religion is not created by God, all religions are created by Wise men (with varying degree of intelligence, goodness and compassion) >>

 

true, but not true for hinduism 9sanatana dharma), which says;

 

dharmas tu sAkshAt bhagavt praNiam.

 

so, a Hindu does not accept man-made religions.

 

[Sephiroth 0]

Is that what you think? I'm sorry but you only make me laugh....excuse me but I just can't stop laughing. You boast of knowing all but your comment tickles me.....

 

Laugh if it makes you happy, I don't care much.

 

What goal are you talking about? God is God and he need not set goals like we human. It's we who set goals to achieve this and that. It is man who think he knows all things and can be a master to all. God is the creator and a silent obsever not the motivator.

 

And what do you think He is observing? For what purpose?

 

Please tell that to the Eutopians. Tell the poor child with rib cage petruding out that God wants it to suffer in order to know HIM.

 

Poor childrens in Sudan and Nigeria (NOT Ethopia) are suffering because of internal strife, war and famine brought to them by their rejection of God and following foolish things like Christianity and Islam.

 

Also, their suffering is test for the faithfuls to go out and help their fellow men without bothering about their caste and creed. ALL within God's views.

[Subham 0]

Hari OM:

 

If sudanese and Nigerian are suffering due to following foolish religions, THEN

 

Why did "Choosen people" suffered at the hand of Hitler, due to their very intelligent religion Judaism?

 

Why did Indians suffered at the hand of Moghul emperors for thousand years, due to their divine religion Hinduism?

 

Why did Japanese suffered by Atom Bomb, due to their true religion Buddhism?

 

Every body suffers/enjoys ONLY their Karma (present and Past), you can't attribute it to God, without making him appear an idiotic and cruel person

[Sephiroth 0]

Why did "Choosen people" suffered at the hand of Hitler, due to their very intelligent religion Judaism?

 

Why did Indians suffered at the hand of Moghul emperors for thousand years, due to their divine religion Hinduism?

 

Told you what ... they needed to suffer in order for them to leave their place (which they comfortable of) and go into a new field.

 

Jews need to venture to America and become a new nation there, and from there, they can produce new technology, innovations etc which we see currently.

 

Hindus have been like frogs under a coconut shells ... not spreading Dharma to the rest of the world because Brahmins control them too much.

 

Now, Hindusm is known worldwide and soon, so will the Gita. And using technology such as Internet, TV and Radio, Hindusm will spread even wider.

 

Imagine this period as age of sowing the seed of Dharma. When comes to time of harvest, God will choose the chosen ones and burn the rest.

 

Why did Japanese suffered by Atom Bomb, due to their true religion Buddhism?

 

Japanese suffered Atom Bombs because of their Karma. But their destruction also has other purpose - as you see today. Japan is one of the leading country in technology and in order for US (Jewish nation) to compete, they must strive to produce better technology then now.

 

I suspect this have to do with the End of Time prophecy and protecting the chosen fews.

 

Every body suffers/enjoys ONLY their Karma (present and Past), you can't attribute it to God, without making him appear an idiotic and cruel person

 

To a strategist, there is NO idioticy OR stupidity. There's ONLY Cold-hearted Calculations and Conducts (for benefits of ALL). God has such characteristics and IF you don't accept His Nature, TOUGH. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

God IS the Supreme Strategist, whether you accept it or not.

[Subham 0]

Hari OM:

 

Is it Chosen Few or benefit of All-decide fast

 

So God

 

1) Created people with animalistic behaviour

 

2) Then created a strategy and set himself a Goal to elevate them from their animalistic behaviour

 

3) Strugglin with that strategy for billions of years with less than 0.000001% of success

 

4) Is torturing and creating misery in people so that they can migrate to new land and start inventing new thing [ however we should also "remember" that the people of Nigeria and Sudan are not tortured to become "better" people]

 

5) He has fixed a time limit, and also fixed a Set of people, when that time limit comes, all the choosen people would be saved and rest burnt (no matter the "rest" could be the "best")

 

6) He is keeping on Sowing for millions of Years for just one Harvest day, and most of his crop just rots or he has to "pluck" the crop and "Plant" it in different field, since he has initially "planted" it in a wrong country

What a Poor, inefficient, stupid, cruel farmer He is

[vishiva 0]

 

Dear friend,

 

"all know this. talk some thing new. "

 

was not my text. as somebody has inserted in my name when i was not registered.if it has hurted anybody sorry for the same.

 

note: and whoever have inserted this text please don't do again.just view your comment on your own name or guest please don't use others.

 

all your views carry much value.

 

i am now registered under Vishiva.

 

 

[Sephiroth 0]

For no apparent reason, the administrator deleted it.

 

I guess in Kaliyuga, Hindus also Hindusm's enemy, supporting foolishness while their own faith is been corrupted by others. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Subham 0]

Hari OM:

 

Good, you heeded to my advice.

 

Keep it up, in all future posts, start with "I guess"...