Why we need Bharat a Vedic (Hindu) State

[maadhav 0]

Here is a quote from

Searching For Vedic India

by Devamrita swami

A 2004 BBT publication

 

Pg.206:

 

"We should remember this point about the civilization chronicled in the Vedas: the individual and the society work hand in hand for a coordinated spiritual evolution - spanning, if necessary, many lives."

 

This means that just chanting is not enough.

The Vedic people need a country with the Vedic culture, a counry free from anti-vedic elements in it, and the population ever vigilant to curb and finish any anti-vedic element if it springs up any time.

 

If all people just chant and do nothing, it is not possible to achieve such a state/rashtra and culture.

 

Obviously, chanting is of second priority in this time of terrorism and when the vedic land is infested with anti-vedic elements.

 

adhishhThAnam tathA kartA

karaNam cha pR^ithagvidham

vividhAshcha pR^ithak cheshhTA

daivam chaivAtra pa.nchamam (Gita 18.14)

 

So, a secure place for sadhana is of first importance.

 

a selfish and narrow minded person however could say:

 

"i would find a hole in the ground to hide and chant in there. i do not care if the terrorists destroy lived or temples. they will not find me, and i will just chant and do nothing."

 

this is not a proper practice of dharma/chanting.

 

[Guest guest]

"We should remember this point about the civilization chronicled in the Vedas: the individual and the society work hand in hand for a coordinated spiritual evolution - spanning, if necessary, many lives."

This means that just chanting is not enough.

--no.. this means that a true society is daughter of the spirituality and not the opposite

 

If all people just chant and do nothing, it is not possible to achieve such a state/rashtra and culture.

--only a few people in the world chant 24/24.. other people chant in a little period of the day and do his job in the remaining part. So if ksatrya chant, they chant for a little then they do their jobs. Even in kuruksetra they never fought 24/24

 

Obviously, chanting is of second priority in this time of terrorism

--if you do not chant every state you can create is asuric and terroristic

 

a selfish and narrow minded person however could say:

"i would find a hole in the ground to hide and chant in there. i do not care if the terrorists destroy lived or temples. they will not find me, and i will just chant and do nothing."

--people like that do not exist... but if this fellow chant constantly with concentration he's saving the world more than any politic or military action

 

so everyone has his job... if you are a ksatrya you do not fight 24/24... in the spare time you can eat, sleep. pray, chant, study gita, do samkirtan

 

where's the problem?

[maadhav 0]

if it is, then it produces terrorists also.

true?

 

<< where's the problem? >>

 

when someone cannot understand that a terrorist can end a changer's life easily in a second, and the cahnter cannot sort the priority between chanting and fighting terrorist, then it is a serious probem.

 

more serious problem is when the chanter actualy preaches that there is nothing better than chanting.

 

gandhians are chanting -iswar allah tera naan - since 60 years, and no muslim has become a lover of hinduism or non violent.

 

chanter has no chance to survive to chant against an anti-vedic.

 

so the chanters need to wake up.

krishna's first priority was to kill asuras, and do rasa lila only after that. some chanters have difficulty understanding this basic strategy of living.

that is the problem.

 

no, you will not understand.

you just chant and do not waste time here.

 

[Guest guest]

when someone cannot understand that a terrorist can end a changer's life easily in a second, and the cahnter cannot sort the priority between chanting and fighting terrorist, then it is a serious probem

--you are simply playing with words.... everyone has his social duties, among these social duties there's the one to try to make his nation more peaceful, rich, free and so on. But one has also spiritual duties and these duties are not in opposition. So you are advertising for your political theory? no problem.. i'll do my spiritual duties, i'll domy job, and maybe i'll do my social or political duties joining your party, group or whatever.

Are you more happy to work together with materialist people or you need spieritual people who knowing the god's science can really decide what's right and what's wrong and what's asuric and what's dharmic?

 

more serious problem is when the chanter actualy preaches that there is nothing better than chanting.

--what is more important of the god's name? how can you fight for dharma if you despise the foundations of dharma?

 

no, you will not understand.

you just chant and do not waste time here.

--this can be also my opinion about you.... this is a spiritual forum, if you despise spirituality and you put it under politic, why areyou here and not somewhere speaking of parties, elections,parliaments, revolutions, terrorism and so on? Hinduism is a way to reach god... if you do not care why you speak of hinduism?

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

 

Jai Shree Krishna Maadhvji

 

I quiet agree that we need Bharat a vedic(hindu) state, what I can not understand is why do you choose to target the chanters of holy names in your post, those who chant 24/7 are very rare, rest of us who care are all concerned about the alien culture infecting our noble culture.

 

Yar bahar naa manso apna desh nu hit su karvana.

 

Pachi to jegame jagat guru jagdishne.

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Guest guest]

those who chant 24/7 are very rare

 

if they were'nt so rare we were already living in vaikunta and the problems were zero

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

 

re

 

(if they were'nt so rare we were already living in vaikunta and the problems were zero )

 

Well the fact is we are not in vaikunta,and the problems are many.

There are those who think our chanting is wrong our worship is devil, they came and are still coming to tell us we are wrong.

we need the land of bharat to remain vedic and practice our Dharma unhindered.we need the vaikunta atmosphere.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Guest guest]

Well the fact is we are not in vaikunta,and the problems are many.

 

i agree... but if the people who chant the names of the lord were not so rare... the problems were zero

 

that's a fact... so do your political actions.. but also chant hare krsna. If politic will fail, you and the people who are in association with you will go in vaikunta and the problems will end

 

material world is created specifically to be problematic, it never will be really peaceful

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

 

Re

 

(i agree... but if the people who chant the names of the lord were not so rare... the problems were zero)

 

I agree also, so let us create atmosphere more conducive to chanting by defeating the ideology which has infiltrated the land or at least try and stop the stem. Of course not forgetting ones on duty of chanting and worship.

 

Re

 

(that's a fact... so do your political actions.. but also chant hare krsna. If politic will fail, you and the people who are in association with you will go in vaikunta and the problems will end)

 

What you class as politics to me it is a worship, worship of mother land, where people are free to pray and chant in peace without the interference of foreign ideology, trying to tell you are kafirs or a heathens. I am fortunate to have had my parents who instill in me the value of worship and chanting and I would like to repay them by making sure what they left for us is preserved, and in this way I have association of like minded brothers and sisters who also feel the same other then that I do not belong organized group.

re

(material world is created specifically to be problematic, it never will be really peaceful )

 

Yes full of misery and temporary. This is well understood by vedic people

 

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Guest guest]

Of course not forgetting ones on duty of chanting and worship.

--that's allright for me... chant will find himself his way

 

(material world is created specifically to be problematic, it never will be really peaceful )

Yes full of misery and temporary. This is well understood by vedic people

--so let us act according to this idea and let us put he best effort for spirituality. If we work hard for india and because we have neglected spiritual duties, we maybe take the next birth in pakistan what's the use?

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

Re

(--so let us act according to this idea and let us put he best effort for spirituality. If we work hard for india and because we have neglected spiritual duties, we maybe take the next birth in pakistan what's the use?)

 

Who is talking about neglecting the spritual duty?

why would anyone working hard protecting the vedic heritage take birth in pakistan that would be going against the laws of Karma, but i accept any birth that gives me the chance to protect the dharma and worship the lord.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

[Guest guest]

Who is talking about neglecting the spritual duty?

#madhav for xample

 

why would anyone working hard protecting the vedic heritage take birth in pakistan that would be going against the laws of Karma

#if one does not develope his spiritual life but is involved only in politics, he's not working for dharma but only for material purpose. So if i fight muslims, i will take birth as a muslim to be fought

 

but i accept any birth that gives me the chance to protect the dharma and worship the lord.

#the dharma is to quit maya and go in vaikunta... world never will be peaceful

[maadhav 0]

those who chant 24/7 are very rare

 

<< if they were'nt so rare we were already living in vaikunta and the problems were zero >>

 

even if 95 or 99% of the world population is 24/7 chanters, the rest can easily send all the chanters to "vainkuntha" just in minutes. and they would love to do it. the 1000-years history in bharat shows they that actually do it, and are not willing to give up that.

 

so, if any vedic person is not willing to go to vainkuntha unexpedly like that, then each chanter first needs to stop chanting, and find every ant-vedic non-chanter (in bharat), and either make him chant 24/7, or send him to vainkuntha instantly before resuming to chanting.

 

remember krishna's raas laid did not happen till all the asuras were sent to vainkunthan first.

----------

 

dear ganeshprasad ji,

 

the answer to your question is as above.

these "chanters", although they accepted the vedic dharma,

have failed to give up xian mentality of holding the monopoly in everything. they want to say that all the various hindu/vedic ways are useless, and only chanting is the way.

 

i do not see it that way, and the vedic literature does not support it either. while most of the followers and supporters of these "chanters" are hindus, still the "chanters" slander and look down at hindus, and glorify islam, the greatest destroyer of the vedic lives and religious infrastructure.

 

all they need to do is not preach the quire (those from whom they learned to chant instead of living hippy life)

and focus their preaching effort on teh anti-vedics in bharat.

 

because the ant-vedics are organied and well funded,

we hindus have no choice but to orgaise and act unitedly to maintain our valued vadic culture in bharat.

 

bhai, aapaNu bhalu.n aapaNej karavaanu chhe.

ee jaapia muslao ne jap shikaade to saaru.

krashna naam no jaap kare, ne gandhi ni nakaami ahinsaa shikhade te khotu.

 

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

 

Who is talking about neglecting the spritual duty?

 

Re

(#madhav for xample)

 

have you asked him if he is asking people to neglect their spritual duty?

He warns us of the danger and sees that as his spritual duty, what is wrong in that?

 

Re

(#if one does not develope his spiritual life but is involved only in politics, he's not working for dharma but only for material purpose. So if i fight muslims, i will take birth as a muslim to be fought)

 

Protecting vedic heritage is not politics,

There is no logic in your statement re becoming a muslim.

 

but i accept any birth that gives me the chance to protect the dharma and worship the lord.

Re

(#the dharma is to quit maya and go in vaikunta... world never will be peaceful )

 

There is a saying Dharman raksit raksitha meaning protect the dharma dharma will protect you.

Vedic dharma is very peaceful, protecting and practicing it will bring the peace.

before one can remove the veil of maya one needs to practice dharma in peace, to go to desire destination.

Jai Shree Krishna

[Guest guest]

even if 95 or 99% of the world population is 24/7 chanters, the rest can easily send all the chanters to "vainkuntha" just in minutes.

--that is lack of faith in krsna and vedas. A world like that would be not only satya yuga but even already Vaikunta. The remaining 1% if does not chant, he's going to chant in few moments.

 

So no need to stop chanting.. but necessity to chant to have a safe vedic world

 

 

remember krishna's raas laid did not happen till all the asuras were sent to vainkunthan first.

--not exact.. read 10th canto srimad bhagavata purana.. krsna does all kind of lilas simultaneously. For example the killing of kamsa in mathura is after the many loving pastimes in vrindavan

 

these "chanters", although they accepted the vedic dharma,

have failed to give up xian mentality of holding the monopoly in everything. they want to say that all the various hindu/vedic ways are useless, and only chanting is the way.

--different... if you read my previous answers i said that you can have any external activity, but you have to practice spirituality, otherwise this activity is ugra karma, tamo guna.

Why the activity of Arjuna is not the one of a materialistic soldier? because he has his mind fixed on krsna.

 

so if you stop religious activities, like chanting or worshipping, you maybe will obtain india but not bharata varsa

 

so religion and action...

 

(read attentively this message and the other ones)

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

He warns us of the danger and sees that as his spritual duty, what is wrong in that?

--it is wrong because in bhagavad gita it is said that the action become dharmic if the mind is engaged in thinking of krsna. So if there's not surrendering to a uttama adhikari spiritual master and constant spiritual practice like the chanting of the holy name.. no activity can be called vedic or dharmic.

 

Protecting vedic heritage is not politics

--so let us protect our being vedic persons cultivating spiritual consciousness with devotion, harinama, prayers and other spiritual practices. Only in this way our action will be effective to build up a new bharata varsa

 

There is no logic in your statement re becoming a muslim.

--if you act without any spiritual purpose you commit sins and you surely will have to pay.. and to pay is to be put in the same situation of the ones that we are now making suffer

 

protect the dharma dharma will protect you.

--of course..and the dharma is 18.66.. "surrender to me...". So surrender and any your activity will be protected.

Arjuna makes no sin in killing millions of people because he's surrendered. Not that his activity is automatically surrendering.

 

before one can remove the veil of maya one needs to practice dharma in peace

--how can you know what's dharma and what's peace without removing maya's veil? how can a blind man have a vision of dharma?

 

 

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

Re

(--it is wrong because in bhagavad gita it is said that the action become dharmic if the mind is engaged in thinking of krsna.)

 

Stop misrepresenting the Gita just to suite your view point, you know as well, us Hindus, are well aware what is dharma and Lord Krishna does speak of various forms of Dharma.

MukhMe Ram or bugalMe churi. Chanting Lords name and ready to cut someone down can never be Dharmic action.

 

In name of Krishna I rob someone of their good earned money so that I can live a life of luxury can never be Dharma.

 

Re

(So if there's not surrendering to a uttama adhikari spiritual master and constant spiritual practice like the chanting of the holy name.. no activity can be called vedic or dharmic.)

 

we are well aware of this, are you suggesting we do not respect our spiritual master?

We are thought to chant names of the lord from infant, our first guru are our parents, if one who can not respect that, he can never respect any other authority. You have no idea what is Vedic or dharma,you learned a few slokas and now you think you know it all.

 

Protecting vedic heritage is not politics

Re

(--so let us protect our being vedic persons cultivating spiritual consciousness with devotion, harinama, prayers and other spiritual practices. Only in this way our action will be effective to build up a new bharata varsa)

 

I have no argument on this.

 

Re

(--if you act without any spiritual purpose you commit sins and you surely will have to pay.. and to pay is to be put in the same situation of the ones that we are now making suffer)

 

Protecting vedic heritage can never be sin, I am not making anyone suffer. You have no knowledge how Karma works.Sada tad bhava bhavita, so if I am engaged in protecting the vedic culture and I see that as only the goal, than I come back to do the same, and if the lord is pleased with my service he may even grant me the knowledge to know him in truth.

 

protect the dharma dharma will protect you.

Re

--of course..and the dharma is 18.66.. "surrender to me...". So surrender and any your activity will be protected.)

 

Yes that plus many of his other instructions, veda speaks of many dharma and that is also vedic.

Re

(Arjuna makes no sin in killing millions of people because he's surrendered. Not that his activity is automatically surrendering.)

 

That was his duty to uphold the Dharma as a ksatriya.

 

before one can remove the veil of maya one needs to practice dharma in peace

 

Re

(--how can you know what's dharma and what's peace without removing maya's veil? how can a blind man have a vision of dharma?)

 

When you start school are you full of knowledge?

Are you free from maya?

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[maadhav 0]

<< --how can you know what's dharma and what's peace without removing maya's veil? how can a blind man have a vision of dharma? >.

 

so you are saying you are the only one here who is above maya? you see, and we don't?

 

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

 

 

 

Pranam maadhavji

 

Re

(these "chanters", although they accepted the vedic dharma,

have failed to give up xian mentality of holding the monopoly in everything. they want to say that all the various hindu/vedic ways are useless, and only chanting is the way.)

 

This evangelical concept of mine is the only way follow it or you are doomed is complete against the Vedic way.It is very divisive. Chanting is very good and very potent but it is not artificial not a show it has to be from within.

 

Re

 

(i do not see it that way, and the vedic literature does not support it either. while most of the followers and supporters of these "chanters" are hindus, still the "chanters" slander and look down at hindus, and glorify islam, the greatest destroyer of the vedic lives and religious infrastructure.)

 

I agree with you our mentality of being subservient to old masters takes time to disappear.

Re

 

(all they need to do is not preach the quire (those from whom they learned to chant instead of living hippy life)

and focus their preaching effort on teh anti-vedics in bharat.)

 

I don’t mind what they do, they have their agenda which does not include hindus welfare.

 

re

(because the ant-vedics are organied and well funded,

we hindus have no choice but to orgaise and act unitedly to maintain our valued vadic culture in bharat.)

 

Yes we have to wake up and make Bharat great again of course with following the dharma.

 

Re

(bhai, aapaNu bhalu.n aapaNej karavaanu chhe.

ee jaapia muslao ne jap shikaade to saaru.

krashna naam no jaap kare, ne gandhi ni nakaami ahinsaa shikhade te khotu.)

 

Ha bhai aapNe nai kaRiye to koi nahi kare.

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Guest guest]

Stop misrepresenting the Gita just to suite your view point

..the essence of gita is that an action becomes automatically dharmic if who acts is really and deeply surrendered... or no action is really dharmic.

 

We are thought to chant names of the lord from infant, our first guru are our parents, if one who can not respect that, he can never respect any other authority. You have no idea what is Vedic or dharma,you learned a few slokas and now you think you know it all.

..read better and you'll understand that i am not your enemy, but the one who thinks that neglecting the spiritual duties is possible to find dharma

 

(--so let us protect our being vedic persons cultivating spiritual consciousness with devotion, harinama, prayers and other spiritual practices. Only in this way our action will be effective to build up a new bharata varsa)

I have no argument on this.

...and this is the real discussion... without devotion no dharma can exist, no bharata varsa can be rebuilt

 

(--how can you know what's dharma and what's peace without removing maya's veil? how can a blind man have a vision of dharma?)

When you start school are you full of knowledge?

...so keep the spirituality school open... do not close it because you are occupied in making bharata varsa... or you will not build it

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Yes we have to wake up and make Bharat great again of course with following the dharma.

 

why you fight if you agree?

[maadhav 0]

(i do not see it that way, and the vedic literature does not support it either. while most of the followers and supporters of these "chanters" are hindus, still the "chanters" slander and look down at hindus, and glorify islam, the greatest destroyer of the vedic lives and religious infrastructure.)

 

<< I agree with you our mentality of being subservient to old masters takes time to disappear. >>

 

bhai, it is not the mentality but our vedic understanding that a devotee of krishna is a hindu no doubt. even when these Hk's strongly say they are not hindus, we still support them because they are krishan bhaktas, not because they have white skin. we just need to make effort to make them understand that they are aryans, sanatana dharmis, or hindus also. and therefore they need to understand the global interst of the hindus and support hindus and not slander hindus. they should thank the hindus for keeping the vedic religion for their benefit even under the greatest danger from islam for 1000 years. despite these complaint about them I do appercaite their work of spreading krishna bhakti.

 

 

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

Stop misrepresenting the Gita just to suite your view point

Re

(..the essence of gita is that an action becomes automatically dharmic if who acts is really and deeply surrendered... or no action is really dharmic.)

 

What is really and deeply surrendered? Very subjective

 

It is far better to discharge one's prescribed duties, even though they may be faultily, than another's duties. Destruction in the course of performing one's own duty is better than engaging in another's duties, for to follow another's path is dangerous.

 

gahana karmano gatih

 

 

Re

(..read better and you'll understand that i am not your enemy, but the one who thinks that neglecting the spiritual duties is possible to find dharma)

 

I have never proposed to abandon dharma.

friends like you who need enemy.

 

re

(...and this is the real discussion... without devotion no dharma can exist, no bharata varsa can be rebuilt)

 

devotion comes in many forms and expressed in different ways.

 

 

(--how can you know what's dharma and what's peace without removing maya's veil? how can a blind man have a vision of dharma?)

 

When you start school are you full of knowledge?

re

(...so keep the spirituality school open... do not close it because you are occupied in making bharata varsa... or you will not build it)

 

you have not answered my question but your answer above is very interesting, we have never proposed to shut spirituality school, on the contrary our proposal is to save this institute from foreign and barbaric ideology, are you against that?

 

ARE YOU FREE FROM MAYA?

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Jai Ganesh

 

Yes we have to wake up and make Bharat great again of course with following the dharma.

 

Re

(why you fight if you agree? )

 

who is fighting with who?

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Guest guest]

you have not answered my question but your answer above is very interesting, we have never proposed to shut spirituality school

 

my initial debate was not with you.. but with madhaav who has proposed to stop or put aside chanting.. even you have objected...

 

arjuna act in a dharmic way because his mind is absorbed in transcendence... if he were not surrendered to krsna he were simply a sinner and he should have had to pay all the karma for having killed millions of people

 

the act is never dharmic if the one who makes it is not situated in transcendence..

 

there's a famous letter written by prabhupada to gandhi saying that he had to learn spiritual knowledge, take initiation and practice otherwise all his political job soon will reveal it as almost useless and source of many problems

 

and now we know how prabhupada was right