Timeless Wisdom

[barney 0]

Timeless Wisdom

 

Spacious Mind

From The Nature of Personal Reality by Jane Roberts

Now: Ruburt's mind is far more aware of other realities than his brain is, but he consciously believes in the greater reality of himself and his perceptions. The brain also possesses this belief, and so it opens itself as much as possible to the mind's activities. Because it does, certain intuitive psychic and 'intellectually spacious' experiences can be physically felt to some extent. The knowledge is interpreted through alterations in body sensation, which give it an important corporeal validity. In such cases high mental and psychic activities are reflected in the body's experience, providing a beneficial unity.

 

Here I use the term 'spacious' for workings of the mind and intuitions that exist in what you might call an accelerated range of action. The normal intellect, originated so precisely by beliefs to the inevitability of a one-focused kind of perception, is limited.

 

(10:45.) A certain kind of affirmation of self allows the brain to tune into these more spacious methods of perception that are the natural characteristics of the mind. There are very good reasons why this type of assertion must first occur. The brain (and the entire physical system) is meant to insure your bodily survival and to follow your conscious / beliefs about reality. There is always a harmonious unifying connection between your beliefs and activities. Some people feel utterly confident in certain areas and are more timorous in others. Some aspects of life may be ignored or even refuted for a time while others are focused upon. The individual will very cleverly and shrewdly go ahead in those areas in which he or she feels safe, often when in the process of altering beliefs. You will not use your spacious mind until you affirm its reality within yourself and until you are ready to handle the additional data which will then become consciously available to one extent or another. But the spacious mind operates through your creaturehood; in your terms it represents latent abilities of consciousness that can be more or less normal functions.

 

There are built-in biological structures that are activated for the reception of such message, and they have always been a part of your physical nature as a species. They will not be triggered on a personal basis until our own beliefs allow you to perceive the multidimensional layers of your own experience -- or at least to accept the possibilities.

 

(Pause.)

 

As Ruburt's episode tonight shows, even normal sense data then achieves [sic] a kind of multidimensionality, a richness rather impossible to describe. This automatically provides a biological learning process in which the senses can be used in a freer, deeper fashion. While such occurrences are not constant, they are frequent enough so that ordinary experience is changed. The richness overlaps.

 

(11:00.) You do not have to know anything about so-called psychic matters necessarily. Many individuals use the spacious mind and its perceptions, taking it for granted without realizing how different their own perception is from that of others.

 

Rubert wondered about this next matter, which is related: Physiologically you carry within yourselves remnants of your evolution, in your terms -- physical vestiges of organs and other attributes long discarded. You follow me here?

 

("Yes.")

 

In the same way you also carry within you structures not yet fully used; those organizations point -- in your terms now -- toward future evolution. Use of the spacious mind involves these. Individuals through all the ages have experienced this other kind of awareness, though never to its fullest form.

 

(Long pause at 11:05)

 

Experience with the spacious mind dissolves any seeming conflicts that occur between the intellect and the intuitions at the other levels. To whatever extent possible, the physical organism interprets that unity through a new mixture of sense data, so that materially the information can make sense.

 

An individual can tune into spacious-mind operation two or three times in a lifetime without realizing it and have experiences that he find difficult to interpret later. The affirmation involved is one of transcendence, in which for a time a person affirms his reality in flesh and at the same time states his independence from it (smile) -- and realizes that both these conditions exist simultaneously. A dual perception takes place in which the spacious mind is activated. By 'activated' I mean that the physical organism is suddenly aware of [the spacious mind's] existence....

 

(Resume very quietly at 11:51)

 

Now: When utilized properly and fully in your terms of time, the spacious mind will vastly enrich the dimensions of the species, bring the body into a greater harmony than is now possible.

 

[Guest guest]

I told my friend something the other day. One hour later he told his friend about what I told him, only he didn't tell it exacly like I told him. Then 30min later, that person told his friend again, reacting so mutch on what he heard I had said, so he talked about it more then the actual story lasted.

 

All this hapend over 1 and 1/2 hour, and allready the truth didn't come out. My wise words became the oposite because of the humand mind and reactions.

 

What hapens over time, hah? What has hapend to old history, storys, myths, "religions" over time? I don't know, you don't know. No one knows!

 

Trust what you KNOW and what you SEE right NOW. ALl other is not eaven there with you right now, cause it MIGHT only have hapened, or... I was told that... from a friend of mine who heard a special guru saying that... but another priest sayd that.. (????)

 

You see?

[barney 0]

This could apply to Islam as it was created through word of mouth. The prophet said this the other day and another one said the prophet said that when he was with his 9 year old wife Aisha. But Hinduism was way beyond that. Even Christianity was as same as Islam. Jesus said this and that as narrated by Pete, Paul and John. But not Hinduism because Scince of Astronomy is there, Science of medicene is there, Science of sex is there and Science of Politics is there. What do you need for you spritual knowledge is there so, learn it and be wise.

[Guest guest]

Hey they are all bona fide religions...

 

You false because also vedas came down through word of mouth...only in Kali yuga did people need to write it down because:

 

a) people's memory is . in this yuga

b) in kali yuga there is more corruption therefore more likelihood of alteration of scripture...

 

example? manu smrti - which has been totally corrupted by british/impersonalist/atheist influence...the manu smrti u see today is not the truth...

 

[maadhav 0]

what is the definition of a "bonafide" religion?

 

if you find a source that defines this, please quite it precisely with exact reference.

 

without such a definition it is futile to argue islam is a bonafide religion. only the diplomats and politiclans says so, not the follower of prahlad (who even disagreed with his father and told him the truth).

 

[Guest guest]

Prabhupada himself said Islam was a bona fide religion, and the Vedas predict the advent of the Prophet Mohammed, detailing his mission...

 

"Krishna is the same God worshiped in the Bible, the Koran, and any bona fide scripture."

 

http://www.krsna.com/newsite/printarticles/Hare_Krishna_101.html

[Guest guest]

"Prabhupada himself said Islam was a bona fide religion, and the Vedas predict the advent of the Prophet Mohammed, detailing his mission..."

 

Ya well Bhavishya Purana doesn't say much good about mahamad, mostly bad things, but he did fulfill shiva's command.

 

""Krishna is the same God worshiped in the Bible, the Koran, and any bona fide scripture"

 

This quote of yours isn't from prabhupada. And you're not accurately representing his views on Bible and Koran. He certainly was a diplomat and preacher. He didn't always preach the proper conclusion of the vedas.

 

 

Prabhupada: This philosophy cannot be understood by neophyte devotees. Our purpose is why we are pushing so much this sales of books. Because our missionary activities will be very widely known. That we want. Somehow or other let him purchase a book. That is our mission. There is no question of transgressing moral principles . . . We want that book selling must be increased as much as possible. This we want. The same thing. Let the child take medicine. Never mind the father is speaking lies . . . Because as soon as he takes the medicine he'll be benefited. End justifies the means. End is that everyone should have a Krsna literature. Doesn't matter what is the means. Because he has taken one Krsna literature, that justifies everything. This is the principle. (760505rc.hon)

 

These are the secrets of the acaryas. Sometimes they conceal the real purpose of the Vedas, and explain the Vedas in a different way. Sometimes they enunciate a different theory just to bring the atheists under their control. (Cc. Madhya-lila 25.42, purp.)

[Guest guest]

There is a difference between believing Krishna to be the ultimate path and dismissing other religions...

 

The fact that Mohammed followed Shiva's command shows that Islam, although as u say not seen to be a good religion, is still sent down by Krishna through Shiva...hence followers of Islam, so long as they follow Mohammed's own teachings, not the mullah interpretations, will make spiritual advancement...Sufism, for example, like KC teaches love for God, their ultimate aim being to be in a loving relationship with Allah...not all ISLAM is corrupted...

 

Obviously, we should still strive to get people to follow Krishna directly, but hey, if their consciousness is not at the right level, they can follow Islam..after all Islam, according to Prabhupada, was there for a certain class of people according to time place and circumstance...if they don't show interest in Vedas, we should still at least ask them to chant the names of Allah...as devotees of Krsna we should be aiming to help all...

[Guest guest]

<< Let the child take medicine. Never mind the father is speaking lies . . . Because as soon as he takes the medicine he'll be benefited. End justifies the means. End is that everyone should have a Krsna literature. >>

 

Exactly! This is a reason why Prabhupdas said that what he is preaching is not Hinduism or that he or HK's are not Hindus.

 

Again, please pick a good user name, 0__0

 

What I see is that this kosher lie does not make any muslim a devotee of krishna, but it greatly makes the hindus tolerant of the asuras and the asuric ideology.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

This quote of yours isn't from prabhupada. And you're not accurately representing his views on Bible and Koran. He certainly was a diplomat and preacher. He didn't always preach the proper conclusion of the vedas.

 

the citations you have brought are saying that we have to follow even if we can feel that the master tells lies for some purpose.. but you are using them for the opposite one... to discuss at your taste the instructions of the guru

 

if spirtual master tells lies to bring the disciples back to godhead, it is not the disciple the one interested to discover it

 

there's no evidence that when prabhupada did speak on mohammed he was telling lies

[Guest guest]

"Exactly! This is a reason why Prabhupdas said that what he is preaching is not Hinduism or that he or HK's are not Hindus."

 

in this way everyone is free to change any teaching of any master:

" he said these lies with the purpose of teaching spiritual consciousness....."

 

if you thing something like that ... demonstrate it

[Guest guest]

"There is a difference between believing Krishna to be the ultimate path and dismissing other religions"

 

Did u think i was dismissing some other religions?

 

 

"The fact that Mohammed followed Shiva's command shows that Islam, although as u say not seen to be a good religion, is still sent down by Krishna through Shiva"

"for a certain class of people according to time place and circumstance"

 

 

yep

 

 

"Sufism, for example, like KC teaches love for God, their ultimate aim being to be in a loving relationship with Allah"

 

 

it appears to on the outside like sikhism and kabir but in the end its mayavada. There's nothing personal about sufism. prabhupada speaks of sufism i believe in a cc purport somewhere, maybe you can find.

 

 

"if their consciousness is not at the right level, they can follow Islam..after all Islam, according to Prabhupada, was there for a certain class of people according to time place and circumstance"

 

 

Exactly, according to their level. Islam, xian, other mleccha dharmas, whatever the individual is ready for. Mleccha dharmas serve their purpose but they dont lead to same goal as sanatana dharm.

 

 

"as devotees of Krsna we should be aiming to help all"

 

 

yep, and as devotee of krsna you should understand your path and not make a hodge podge of 'all religions lead to same goal'. Statements like that and 'krishna is same god in bible and koran' are only partially true.

[Guest guest]

"you are using them for the opposite one... to discuss at your taste the instructions of the guru"

 

 

Baseless accusation. actually that is what you are doing. to understand his position on mleccha dharma one must take into account all things he said about it, positive neutral and negative. Not just the ones you like as you have done. You probably don't approach things in this way anyhow.

 

 

"there's no evidence that when prabhupada did speak on mohammed he was telling lies"

 

who said they were lies? It's called preaching.

[Guest guest]

preaching is telling the truth...

 

and you gave the same impression not only to me but also to the one who has posted after yourself

 

"Exactly! This is a reason why Prabhupdas said that what he is preaching is not Hinduism or that he or HK's are not Hindus.

"

[Guest guest]

"Prabhupada: General principle is that if you can engage anyone in Krsna consciousness, that is good. That is good. That is also said in the Bhakti-rasamrta. Yena tena prakarena manah krsne nivesayet. If your aim is to engage him in Krsna consciousness, if you do something which is not very straight, that is allowed. (laughter) Because you are doing very good to him"

 

http://www.prabhupadavani.org/web/text/057.html

 

 

Prabhupada: Just like a mother says to his child, "My dear child, if you take this medicine, I will give you this lugloo." The child is diseased. He will not be able to digest lugloo, but the mother sometimes cheats him. And when he takes the medicine the lugloo is not delivered. Similarly, sometimes we have to say so many things very pleasing to him, but our business is that let him take this medicine. That is tactics. But that is not cheating. If the mother helps the child in drinking medicine and then afterwards she does not supply the lugloo, that is not cheating. Some way or other... That is the instruction of Rupa Gosvami, yena tena prakarena manah krsne nivesayet: "Somehow or other, let everyone be Krsna conscious." There is no question of vidhi-nisedha. Sarve vidhi-nisedha syur etayor eva kinkarah. The other rules and regulation will act as servant, but the main business is to bring one to Krsna consciousness. That is the main business. We are not meant for cheating anyone. We have no business. But to lead one to Krsna consciousness we may say something sometimes. So that is not cheating. (SP Room Conv. Atlanta, March 2, 1975)

 

Rupa Goswami:

 

yena tena prakarena manah krsne nivesayet...

 

"An acarya should devise a means by which people may somehow or other come to Krsna consciousness." (Brs.1.2.4)

 

[Guest guest]

but it is not up to us to judge

 

a guru has be taken as absolute

[Guest guest]

right, islam is mleccha dharma...it does not lead to santan dharma...directly...

 

i'm not saying all religions lead to same goal...

 

I'm saying, if Prabhupada told the Muslims to chant Allah, then surely Prabhupada would have considered Islam to be bona fide...can u imagine Prabhupada telling Sai Baba followers to chant Sai Baba? He wouldn't because he knows that Sai baba is nothing to do with God, but Prabhupada knows that Allah is at least a post of God i.e. the highest, so there is no harm in chanting it...a bit like if we kept chanting 'Supreme Lord, Supreme Lord' there is no harm in it...and there is spiritual advancement...

 

Hence, don't start emphasising the asuric aspects of other religions...Why? Because if u strive to be devotee of Krsna, you must respect the fact that they are of that level of consciousness...if Muslims follow uncorrupted teachings of Mohammed sincerely undoubtedly they will get favourable reincarnation for more God consciousness...

 

We are trying to be devotees of Lord, so let's not be getting into insulting other dharma sent down by that very same Lord...

 

 

[Guest guest]

"right, islam is mleccha dharma...it does not lead to santan dharma...directly...

 

i'm not saying all religions lead to same goal...

"

 

 

oki dok

 

 

"Allah is at least a post of God i.e. the highest, so there is no harm in chanting it...a bit like if we kept chanting 'Supreme Lord, Supreme Lord' there is no harm in it...and there is spiritual advancement...

"

"if Muslims follow uncorrupted teachings of Mohammed sincerely undoubtedly they will get favourable reincarnation for more God consciousness"

 

 

yep

 

 

"Hence, don't start emphasising the asuric aspects of other religions..."

"We are trying to be devotees of Lord, so let's not be getting into insulting other dharma sent down by that very same Lord..."

 

 

Where was i doing that? When i was telling you what Bhavishya Purana said? Bhavishya emphasises the asuric aspects, have you seen it?

 

Thats fine if you need to focus on the positive unproprotionately to respect mleccha dharma. Others can take it for what it is and give it due respect.

 

 

"Because if u strive to be devotee of Krsna, you must respect the fact that they are of that level of consciousness"

 

 

I do respect that, i just don't like when 'hare krishnas' make a hodge podge of mleccha dharma and kc other than for preaching purposes.