why to fight

[maadhav 0]

a few times some one here said something like,

 

"fight if you want to fight

but do not fight in the name of religion,

or do not say that the religion says to fight."

 

so, let me address the issue here.

 

first let me define 'religion' and 'dharma'.

 

islam, ., judaism, are religions.

hinduism is not. hinduism is dharma - eternal.

 

islam (koran) cleary says to invade and conqure non muslim countries and convert or kill non muslims. the total history of islam proves that they did nothing but this, and the hindus have suffered the most from islam for 1000+ years.

 

. also is not comfortable with any other religion on this earth other than .. xians are very aggresive and organized to wipe out all the culutures of the world except . from the face of earth. previously they did go to wars for that. now they use political and money power to achieve that end. xians say there is no soul in animals and non human lives. . is focussed on possessing and expoliting this earth and its people. . says we all are sinners and anything other than the bible is devils work. so to them gita is devil's work.

 

hinduism (sanatana dharma or varnasrama dharma)

is not like islam or . that are with a set of beliefs. hinduism is about the truth, eternal truths about god, us, and his creation. krishna shows all possible ways, scientifically, how one can go to him. hinduism is not an organized dharma, that is, hindus do not have any interest to convert the whole world to hinduism. this is becaue krishna says in gita to not tell any one about dharma if one is not intersted or is evious to krishna.

 

so, basically, hinduism is inherently tolernt to all and the religions are not. this tolerance hower has a limit. adharma cannot be tolerated.

 

when arjun, all of a sudden on the battle field of kurukshetra, decided to tolerate adharma, krishna said him in gita to fight, even with the great souls like drona and bhishma. no one should miss to understnd this fact.

 

so, you can see here why hindus fight.

the reasons why hindus fight is totally different from why muslims or xians fight. dharma is not a 'religion'.

 

so, if you undersand this,

then you can see that islam and . will go to wars for religion, because their books say so.

 

hindus have no choice but to fight

with adharmis becaue krishna says so.

it is dharma to fight asuras.

 

this brings to another point:

 

some say, "fight with asuras only if you are a pure kshatriya." mostly the HK's say this to the hindus.

 

so, this implies the HKs are "pure" brahmanas.

so, then it is the duty of pure brahmans to raise pure kshatriyas. brahmans are the 'head' of a vedic society.

like drona and chanakya muni, the HK's need to be expert not only in shaastras, bur also shastras - the modern weapons and the art of war. then they must teach dharma of kshatriyas and teach how to fight to win over the asuras.

 

to win over the asuras, you need to know your emeny and their ideology well. if you give free political field to the asuras, then they will rule over the suras and you.

therefore, the pure brahmanas must enter politics and place suras in political positions.

 

this activity of raising pure kshatriyas

cannot happen by slandering and fighting with the hindus.

be one of them, and encourage them to become pure kshatriya by example, as krishna has said to do.

you need to learn and practice and preach chanakya niti also.

 

also rememeber that HKs's freedom to do bhakti is protected by kshatriyas only, no matter how impure they are.

 

so, realizing the fact that the asuras have raised hell (terrorism) every where, the priority of the time is to fight and win over the asuras and kill their ideology (intellectual fight).

 

so, the bottom line is:

 

those who follow a 'religion' do fight with infidels.

those who follow dharma have no choice but to fight asuras and win over them.

 

there is no shame in saying, "i will fight asuras because krishna says so in gita." if the "pure" brahmanas do not expose the asuras and encourge the kshatriyas to fight, then they will do a great dis-service to the society.

 

 

[Guest guest]

""""there have to be common reasons and features to consider that some people belong to the same group, you think that what's in common between all vaguely "indian inspired" religious groups is enough to call them under the same name.... i am for first not interested in identifications, i appreciate people personally, not by group.. next, technically, i do not think that one who thinks that krsna/vishnu is supreme, one who thinks that siva is supreme, one who thinks that brahman is supreme and vishnu, krsna, shiva are only illusory charachters, belong to the same religion..

if you want to say : "let's unite for fighting muslims, terrorists and so on" this is a possible purpose, one can agree or not, but it's up to him.... but , if for this reason you have to force everyone under the same HINDU flag calling it sanatana dharma you are wrong

so if you say: "friend please help me...." it could be right

if you say "friend let us unite in the same religion in this way you are forced to help me against fanatics.." it is very easy that i recognize another fanaticism and i do not help

so do not search this artificial hinduism, this is a modern muslim, fanatic definition.... they were ignorants, not interested in distinctions, they saw themselves, the religious people.. and the others in this land that they were going to conquer.. all infidels, atheists, idol worshippers

so making no differences "they are beyond this river sindhu.. they are (s)hindu"

so uniting artificially people under a false definition you are behaving exactly as a western ignorant invader (=they're all enemies, they're all the same)

i, born as a christian, have learn by india how to live peacefully and friendly not fearful of the differences, if you take away them very soon you will remain only with an "hinduism" etiquette and no substance

so push your idea of opposing to the terrorists, religious fanatics and so on... but do not mix it with religion, because when the goal will be reached, when ayodya will have a temple, when all the muslim will be in arabia and so on, someone will use this hinduism/nationalism to conquer and oppress others

hitler started like that, first unite artificially (in a race) to defend from oppression, then remain unite to be oppressors """"""

[maadhav 0]

yes, i would be happy to answer every point in your response.

 

i would be more happy to reply if you assume a user name please.

 

 

 

 

[Dravidian 0]

I agree with Maahdav. I wrote a similar but less eliquent message on the matter before. With my qualities I would be a kshatriya and I would bow before a Brahmana who would have me as a disciple. I bow before God Krishna and Lord Shiva. Whether on the battlefield, or on this site I would defend the honor of sanatana dharma, as is the duty of all hindus.

 

We meditate on the glory of the Creator;

Who has created the Universe;

Who is worthy of Worship;

Who is the embodiment of Knowledge and Light;

Who is the remover of all Sin and Ignorance;

May He enlighten our Intellect.

 

 

[Dravidian 0]

I thin kyou misinterpret what Maahdav has said. Although I do not speak for Maahdav, I think that sanatana dharma is the underlying spirituality beyond all convention...this includes religion. As convention it falls under definition as Hinduism or whatever religion that can uphold such ideals. To me Hinduism has become a religion in somw ways. And dharma is rita, the law of the universe or the divine will. Such things are beyond our petty language...but I will still profess to defend what I believe to be the closest convention to it. For it is a guide for me and others until I and they outgrow it and find sanatana dharma. No convention can teach me this, but can be a stepping stone of sorts.

 

We meditate on the glory of the Creator;

Who has created the Universe;

Who is worthy of Worship;

Who is the embodiment of Knowledge and Light;

Who is the remover of all Sin and Ignorance;

May He enlighten our Intellect.

 

[maadhav 0]

dear dravidian arya,

please accept my praNam!

 

 

[Guest guest]

We meditate on the glory of the Creator;

-right

 

Who has created the Universe;

-right

 

Who is worthy of Worship;

-right

 

Who is the embodiment of Knowledge and Light;

-not so right, if you believe that there's a knowledge and a light above god or the body of god, this discrepance is too big to be me classified with you in the same dharma.. i believe the opposite: the personal god, source of all sources, govindam adi purusham, is the source of knowledge and light.

 

so i do not care, everyone has his idea, ask me if you want any help on personal or collective basis i will see, but it is useless to say that we belongs to the same dharma, it is not respectiful for my idea and yours

 

so why all this botheration with this religious FICTICIOUS division created by the ignorance of invaders?

 

for me krsna shows various ideas to arjuna, in these ideas he shows monism, advaitism, jnana, karma etc.. but the ultimate dharma, the conclusion, the sanatana dharma is "sarva dharma.. surrender to me..." to the original person, the adi purusham, the source of paramatma and brahman.. i repeat, i do not love classification, but this is a religion, advaitism is another religion, mayavadism is another religion, jainism is another religion, sikhism another even if the practitioners often dress in a similar way..

 

considering the essence of the concept of god my idea is more close to xianism that differs in other aspects

 

so let us discuss, if you want, if some different religions have to collaborate for the ayodya stuff or if there's necessity to fight together terrorism or fanaticism but do not create artificially a super religion

 

all religion in the world are based on 1)mainly bhagavan, 2)mainly paramatma, 3)mainly brahman even if they say the same things with different words, so if we make one religion with opposite beliefs in india, we have to include also xians, muslims, buddhists, native american indians, australian abhorigens, grecian/roman gods etc.

 

so we mantain differences.. or we have include everyone even outside india...... choose the one you like more

 

i repeat there's less difference between a christian and vaishnava or between a shakarite and a buddhist than a vaishnava and a follower of sri shankaracharya.... and we not speak of, for me absolutely irreligious phenomenons like sai baba, osho, ramakrishna, sri mataji, maharishi.. and absolutely i am not in their religion in any way

 

no criticism, only scientific and rational examination

 

[maadhav 0]

sound rational, but is not.

 

all who fly are birds. they need to unite

to fight the hunters.

 

one bird says, "birds, unite. else the hunters will kill us all."

 

and a sparrow, one among many types of sparrows says:

 

"i am am a bird, i am a special HK sparrow that krishna has blessed, i do the best as krishna has said. you all so called birds are deluded. some of you even eat other birds.

so i will not unite with you. hell, i do not unite with any one.

 

i know some of you kshatriya-birds do protect my freedom to chant. but i am not grateful to them. let the hunters shoot. just chant and dance with mridangamam and cymbals.

just ignore hunters and theri ak-47's."

 

is this rational argument?

o krishna! please enlighten the sparrow.

 

 

[Guest guest]

J Ganesh

Jai Shree Krishna Maadhav

I admire your steadfast fighting spirit, keep it up. I know in my heart of heart you do not hate any human being, you would not even hurt a fly, it is not in the nature of true Hindu.you would rather if left alone do your sadhna and search for the truth

You are alert to the danger faced by our Bhumi mata. We will be failing in our duty if we cant protect her.

As you rightly say asura are gathering force and if we don’t face up to it they will over run us. We are also in danger of being over run by western materialistic values, which many Hindus are embracing. I am afraid Kali is taking hold.

I see your many pleads for help from HK are falling on deaf ears, I don’t think you should despair as their taking up of Krishna bhakti is in itself is a silent support.

How do you tackle a problem Islam in our holy dham they are also citizen of the country, I think the majority are peace loving individual. I don’t think we would mind them practicing their religion so long as they can respect our values.

Why cant they see their mistake of the past insult to the Hindus. Their mosque on top of our temples in our most holy dhams is a constant reminder of their brutality.

Would they for one minute put up with a similar situation on their holy Kaba I ask? `

I do not see any clear-cut answer to huge problem we have. I guess the Lord has his own agenda

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Guest guest]

"i know some of you kshatriya-birds do protect my freedom to chant. but i am not grateful to them. let the hunters shoot. just chant and dance with mridangamam and cymbals."

 

-this reply is not intelligent because you are deliberately missing the point.. the problem is not in unite for a particular task, this is a discussion that it's very important to do ..... the problem is if we want to build a non existent religion for this purpose, this is a blasphemy for any group that you unite in this hodgepodge because you see something "indian" in them

 

two kinds of propositions, one correct and loyal, one false and cheating

 

a: help us to fight terrorism

b: you belong to my religion so you have the compulsive duty to fight

 

if the only common thing you can find is that one risks to be oppressed by islamic terrorists, everywere in the world is hindu, because this is all over the world..

 

at the end... i am afraid like you of the (pseudo)islamic terrorism, i can speak, collaborate, discuss... but not being forced in a group, classification, banner, brand that i do not recognise?

 

yours is a very muslim system.. if one muslim has problems in palestine, usa, french a muslim in jakarta, london, india authomatically says that he's a saint without knowing anything only because he's muslim

 

i do not want to contribute to a creation of a thing like that with hinduism

 

(stop this ksatrya joke... you have to desire to go back to godhead, to find a spiritual master and do sadhana and your karma/bhakti yoga.. you haven't any autority to judge what groups, gurus, maths, disciples or sampradayas can do.. you are not a pope or an ayatollah to say to saint religious leaders "now stop samkirtan... do this or do that" thinking yourself more intelligent

 

if hinduism is sanatana dharma, the first dharma is to respect gurus, if you do not do like this your belonging to sanatana dharma has no meaning

 

if you do not agree ... create your own religion, no problem.. if you think that the maths, groups, sampradayas that do not make disciples taking guns in the place of mridangas are not giving real service to sanatana dharma do not bother to ask collaboration.. they're adharmic like the muslims

 

another reason to be honest and not to speak of religion

 

hinduism, or "indian" religions never had a pope, or an ayatollah... i am interested to listen to you speaking of fighting the terrorism, but i do not recognise you as an ayatollah and i do not like to hear you saying to my masters: "you're wrong, put aside chaitanya and take bombs and guns"

 

this is antireligious, asuric, anti hindu)

[maadhav 0]

praNam borhter!

 

<< How do you tackle a problem Islam in our holy dham they are also citizen of the country, I think the majority are peace loving individual. >>

 

yes. however, they need to give up islam, and we need to make them undertand it peacefully. just becasue they are citizens of the devabhoomi does not give them freedom to go against the local culture.

 

<< I don&#8217;t think we would mind them practicing their religion so long as they can respect our values. >>

 

it is a hindu thought, but misses the point that sooner or later their generations will again do what they did in the past. the problem is - their book is Koran and it is opposie to gita. when they go to mecca (at our expese!) they learn how to treate kafirs, and we are kafirs to them. so, we need to help them give up islam if they want to live on the deva bhoomi.

 

<< Why cant they see their mistake of the past insult to the Hindus. >>

 

because koran says we are kafirs.

 

<< Their mosque on top of our temples in our most holy dhams is a constant reminder of their brutality. >>

 

yes, and the HK's fail to understand it.

 

< Would they for one minute put up with a similar situation on their holy Kaba I ask? `>>

 

i think not.

but islam is not eternal. we need some work.

 

<< I do not see any clear-cut answer to huge problem we have. I guess the Lord has his own agenda >>

 

and we need to tune with krishna/gita aod serve Him.

following chaitanya (dancing and chanting) can wait for some time till the asuras are under check.

 

winston churchill can be called a western chanakya.

once he ws invited to address at teh graduation ceremony at a university in london.

 

he got up, and looked into the eyes of the fresh graduates assembled, and said,

 

"never, never, never, give up!

never, never, never, give up!

never, never, never, give up!"

 

and he sat down.

 

the suras cannot give up,

especially when the asura are like ghauri.

 

protecting dharma means doing what krishna has said.

 

could you agree?

 

 

[maadhav 0]

i woudl respond.

please pick a user name first.

 

[Guest guest]

no need to answer... only understand

[Dravidian 0]

Vanakam....Greetings to you also my brother!

 

 

[Dravidian 0]

You replied to my translation of the gayatri mantra. You believe that the line about "Who is the embodiment of Knowledge and Light;" is "not so right". Forgive me, perhaps it is my intellect, however, i still do not understand what it is you really said in your reply to me about the mantra. I do not believe in a Knowledge and Light higher than God. I don't think that I said or implied this in any way. If I have please show me how, and accept my apologee.

 

We meditate on the glory of the Creator;

Who has created the Universe;

Who is worthy of Worship;

Who is the embodiment of Knowledge and Light;

Who is the remover of all Sin and Ignorance;

May He enlighten our Intellect.

[Guest guest]

Jai Ganesh

 

praNam borhter!

 

Re

(it is a hindu thought, but misses the point that sooner or later their generations will again do what they did in the past. the problem is - their book is Koran and it is opposie to gita. when they go to mecca (at our expese!) they learn how to treate kafirs, and we are kafirs to them. so, we need to help them give up islam if they want to live on the deva bhoomi.)

 

I still have a great regard for this Hindu thought, of respect an tolerance, one thing my parents tought me was not to thrust any thing down anyone throat.

Fight we must, with inteligent.

why should they go to mecca at our expense?

we should have one uniform law for all the citizens.

 

Re

(protecting dharma means doing what krishna has said.

 

could you agree?)

 

yes, you do not have to ask.

 

Krisha says many things in Gita

 

Above all he is asking Arjun to fight to protect the Dharma

 

Jai Shree Krishna

[Guest guest]

/images/graemlins/smile.gif Jai Shri Krishna

 

All "hindu" holy places are in india itself. so thres no necessary for hindus to travel outside india for pilgrimage. so no expenses needed for hindus.

 

But for our muslim brothers, "Mecca" is main pilgrimage place which they should visit atleast once in a lifetime. so they are going to mecca with help of our government. is it not our duty to help our muslim brothers to help in their pilgrimage trip.

 

So lets be positive.

 

/images/graemlins/smile.gif Jai Shri Krishna

[Guest guest]

<< is it not our duty to help our muslim brothers to help in their pilgrimage trip. >>

 

the above question is like, "is it not our duty to help our asura brothers in learning how to kill suras and destroy suras' temples?"

 

almost all muslim countries have only islam as the legal religion. so, then it makes very good sense that india and other free countries declare islam only as the illegal religion?

 

let islam reap the fruits of their actions and attitudes.

 

the mecca or your muslim "brother" does not allow any non muslim to enter mecca. why it is so difficult for you to understand that for muslims, you are not brother, you are a kafir as long as you are a hindu or HK?

 

if your real muslim friend is nice to you,

that does not make koran as good as gita.

he is good out of ignorance of islam or he is just waiting for a time when he can show you his true colors.

 

islam has always acted violently towards moorti pooja,

and you a krishna devotee, with moorti in your home altar, think that islam or islami is better than a hindu who tolerates almost any one.

 

know well the barbarians' ideology before showing your brotherhood to it. cobras' ideology does not need to be treated like you treat a hindu or a cow.

 

if they like mecca, they better live in mecca,

not in a kafir's land.

 

cancer cell is a living cell.

so would you say, "this cancer cells in my body are my brothers - grown out of my own body - and have the souls like my soul. all souls are krishna's children. so, i should grow more cells in my body and not kill them. they are nice to me."

 

what you said above is just like that.

 

what amazes me is that you will not persuade your muslim friend to give up islam because koran is the bible of terrorism, but you would strongly argue against a hindu who feels good about you because you are a krishna devotee.

 

this reminds me krishna's words:

 

maayayaa apahR^ita GYaanaa...

 

association with an asuric ideology is not satasanga or sadhu sanga.

 

 

[Dravidian 0]

I respect your ideal for tolerance, it is definitely a dharmic principle. But there is a limit to that tolerance. Just as the Pandavas could not tolerate the Kurava's threat to dharma neither can we. The Kuravas also worshiped God as the Pandavas did. But they were still cultivating asuric qualities. So that is there businiess to cultivate whatever qulities they want...agreed...ok. But when one's freedom of religion or expression of self, impinges upon anothers freedom to do the same, then they have broken the law that they themselves enjoy so much. They use the law of freedom to pursue religion, but use the same law to oppress the freedom of others to do the same. This cannot be tolerated and must be dealt with by force, for nothing else may be understood. Of course force is the last resort, for ALL other avenues must be pursued first. But if it comes to force, then so be it. Just as Arjuna had to in the end. It seems you may be dealing with the same dillemma in some sense. Himsa is never appealing, but never forget the qualities of God such as Kalki, Narashima, Rudra, Kali, Durga, Skantha...emphasizing that there is a time for force. The wisdom in a dharmic student is to know when to use it. Whether you disagree that this is a time for force or not may be a valid argument. But you must see that force is a required element at times.

 

We meditate on the glory of the Creator;

Who has created the Universe;

Who is worthy of Worship;

Who is the embodiment of Knowledge and Light;

Who is the remover of all Sin and Ignorance;

May He enlighten our Intellect.

[barney 0]

Yes, it was said so in the Gita but who were they fighting against, their own kins men. Today in India we see corrupted politicians and non believers ruling the state governments. These are the asuras of the modern world and and enemy of Hinduism, we must fight to save India from their clutches than we can face the world against any others who come against Hinduism. Having enemies in your own home and trying to look else where is wrong. If you can destroy these enemies first than the others will have no choice but to surrender. We are our own enemy and we must win over ourselves first in order to fight against alien religions because ours is not a religion but the way of life. We live by it everyday not a chosen day like other faiths.

[maadhav 0]

barney,

 

my view has never differed from what you said above, except slightly.

 

yes, we need work to do internally,

but at the same time externally too.

 

now, it is not right for me to say, "you fix it"

nor it is right for you say to me, "you fix it."

 

"we" need to do it, any small or big way we can.

 

would you agree?

 

[maadhav 0]

barney,

 

pls see my previous post,

if you missed to see it.

 

 

[gokulkr 1]

Dear Maadhav,

 

First tell this barney to mind his own business rather than irritating me.

 

He has no rights to tell me as a fool just because i dont agree with "secularists".

 

He thinks ke knows everything. If i debate with him, i can defeat him within minutes. but i dont wanna debate with arrogant persons like him.

 

Ask him to stay away from my threads. My threads are for "vaishnavas" not for dumb persons like him. Hes just a baba freak following baba.

 

These baba freaks always irriatate others & tell others as fools.