Multiverse Theory

[Gauracandra 1]

Ghari wrote:

Right now in some universe, Lord Caitanya is inaugurating His sankirtana movement; in other universe Lord Krsna is performing His rasa dance; in another universe Dhanvantari is emerging with a giant jug of nectar; like that.

Avinash wrote:

Nice example of multi-universe theory (a theory accepted by some of Quantum Physicists).

Ahhh you bums, you beat me to it I was just about to start a posting on multiverse theory. Lets just chalk this up to “Great minds thinking alike” .

 

So yesterday I was ho-humming through the library when I came to the magazine section. I started flipping through Discover Magazine because it had an interesting front page headline. It was something like “The most important scientific theory that scientists don’t want to talk about…”. That’s paraphrased, as I don’t have a copy of the front page. Rather than type out the whole article (I’d end up with carpal tunnel syndrome), I figured I’d put in a few quotes. I don’t know much about physics, but I found the ideas presented to be interesting.

 

If quantum theory weren’t valid, no one would be walking around with cell phones or Palm Pilots. So physicist David Deutsch wonders this: Why do many smart scientists ignore the larger implications of quantum mechanics?

If his arguments, which have won over more than a few of his colleagues, turn out to be correct, our meeting is also occurring countless times in innumerable parallel universes, all in perfect accord with the uncanny laws of quantum theory.

 

Few physicists deny the validity of these laws, although they might not agree with Deutch’s interpretation of them. The laws insist that the fundamental constituents of reality, such as protons, electrons, and other subatomic particles, are not hard and indivisible. They behave like both waves and particles. They can appear out of nothing – a pure void – and disappear again.

To grapple with the contradictions, most physicists have chosen the easy way out: They restrict the validity of quantum theory to the subatomic world. But Deutsch argues that the theory’s laws must hold at every level of reality.

We, too, must exist in many states at once, even if we don’t realize it. There must be many versions of late-rising David Deutsches, Earth, and the entire universe. All possible events, all conceivable variations on our lives, must exist, says Deutsch. We live not in a single universe, he says, but in a vast and rich “multiverse”.

He knows the idea takes some getting used to, especially when one pauses to consider what it means on an everday level. For starters, it solves once and for all the ancient question of whether we have free will. “The bottom line is that the universe is open”, Deutsch says. “In the relevant sense of the word, we have free will”.

 

We also have every possible option we’ve ever encountered acted out somewhere in some universe by at least one of our other selves.

A detailed experiment about the dual nature of light (wave vs. particle) is described.

If in every case a particle – be it a photon, an electron, or any other denizen of the quantum world – appears to occupy more than one position at a time, then it clearly does occupy many positions at once. And thus so do we, and so does everything else in the universe.

Deutsch argues that physicists who use quantum mechanics in a utilitarian way – and that means most physicists working in the field today – suffer from a loss of nerve. They simply can’t accept the strangeness of quantum reality.

What if quantum theory is wrong?

 

“I’m sure that quantum theory will be proved false one day, because it seems inconceivable that we’ve stumbled across the final theory of physics. But I would bet my bottom dollar that the new theory will either retain the parallel universe feature of quantum physics, or it will contain something even more weird.”

I have always found the paintings of Visnu lying in the causal ocean with trillions of universes eminating from Him to be fascinating. The Vedic conception of reality is very complex. I am also reminded of the story of our Lord Brahma (with 4 heads) meeting the Brahmas of other universes. He was perplexed, because there were Brahmas with 10 heads, 1000 heads, millions of heads etc…. It is also said that Krsna’s pastimes are occuring innumerable times in other universes, with Him speaking the Gita to Arjuna etc… Also the question of whether light is a particle or a wave, caused me to think about Sri Caitanya’s notion that the soul is inconceivably both one and distinct from the Lord. Are we “in” this universe? Or are we “with” God at this very moment. Or perhaps we occupy both positions at once….

 

Gauracandra

[gHari 0]

Fascinating, Jim. Very logical. Vedas better than Star Trek!

 

Reality - the ultimate scifi.

 

It is He. Jai Sri Krsna!

[mahak 0]

multiverse and concurrent realities are very much a part of the theology of vedic shastra.

 

The perfect story about multiverse comes from my favorite book, the teachings of Lord Chaitanya, when Brahma of the four directions arrived at the gate of Lord Narayana. Ther gatekeeper asked Him, "Lord Narayana wants to know which Brahma are you?"

 

The four direction Lord Brahma was quite surprised when the creators of the multiple universes arrived to give tribute to Lord Narayana,

 

Its all a amtter of inches that separate all these dimensions. Like those whose feet never touch the cround, and those others whose feet cannot be seen because they rest below the surface.

 

The ol 5th Canto contraversy is solved by the string theory of multiverse. If one can appreciate existance without void in this realm, then living beneath the surface of this planet can be better understood. When the lower planetary systems are discussed, and clearly described as "subterranean", then one should not look up to try to imagine where they are, nor should one think they are on the other side of the globe, because that direction is also "up".

 

The descriptions of 5th canto are very clear, the drawings may be a bit flawed only because of our inability to imagine anything "nano". As far as the scientists reach for the nebulae, there is just as vast an undiscovere4d region inward.

 

Funny, while typing, I was thinking of a marvelous Hollywood concept presented in the movie "Men In Black", where the victimized universe was located in a medalion located in the necklas of the kittycat. That is not wrong at all, and the imagination of the screenwriters is nothing more than Krsna, who claims to be the ability in mankind.

 

Its all there, perfect and complete, and will all be revealed in due course.

 

I love theoretical physics of the 21st century. It is way beyond the mad science of the twentieth century, based in darwinism atheism, mechanical beings without ghosts in the machine, just electricity without self. The new science begins with glorification of the Supreme Energetic, where all energy emanates. The new science will verify God's existance, because the paradigms of the past are vigorously cast aside (much to the protests of the old guard with war machine motivations of domination).

 

Also, to add to dear gHari's point, somewhere, there is a gentle man trying to give Krsna to a powerful nation of hedonists. Think of it, the possibility to associate with Srila Prabhupada in the bowery while He is saving the world.

 

Did He not say that Krsna Consciousness is beyond the time and space restrictions of our particular dimension.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[gHari 0]

AUTHORIZED MULTIVERSE

 

Chapter Eight of The Teachings of Lord Caitanya:

The AvatAras

 

Lord Caitanya continued to explain to SanAtana GosvAmI that the expansions of Lord KRSNa who come to the material creation are called avatAras, or incarnations. The word avatAra means "One who descends," and in this case the word specifically refers to one who descends from the spiritual sky. In the spiritual sky there are innumerable VaikuNTha planets, and from these planets the expansions of the Supreme Personality of Godhead come into this universe.

The first descent of the Supreme Personality of Godhead from the expansion of SaGkarSaNa is the puruSa incarnation, MahA-ViSNu. It is confirmed in SrImad-BhAgavatam (1.3.1) that when the Supreme Personality of Godhead descends as the first puruSa incarnation of the material creation, He immediately manifests sixteen elementary energies. Known as the MahA-ViSNu, He lies within the Causal Ocean, and it is He who is the original incarnation in the material world. He is the Lord of time, nature, cause and effect, mind, ego, the five elements, the three modes of nature, the senses and the universal form. Although He is master of all objects movable and immovable in the material world, He is totally independent.

The influence of material nature cannot reach beyond the VirajA, or Causal Ocean, as confirmed in SrImad-BhAgavatam (2.9.10). The modes of material nature (goodness, passion and ignorance), as well as material time, have no influence on the VaikuNTha planets. On those planets the liberated associates of KRSNa live eternally, and they are worshiped both by the demigods and the demons.

Material nature acts in two capacities as mAyA and pradhAna. MAyA is the direct cause, and pradhAna refers to the elements of the material manifestation. When the first puruSa-avatAra, MahA-ViSNu, glances over the material nature, material nature becomes agitated, and the puruSa-avatAra thus impregnates matter with living entities. Simply by the glance of the MahA-ViSNu, consciousness is created, and this consciousness is known as mahat-tattva, The predominating Deity of the mahat-tattva is VAsudeva. This created consciousness is then divided into three departmental activities according to the three guNas, or modes of material nature. Consciousness in the mode of goodness is described in the Eleventh Canto of SrImad-BhAgavatam. The predominating Deity of the mode of goodness is called Aniruddha. Consciousness in the mode of material passion produces intelligence, and the predominating Deity in this case is Pradyumna. He is the master of the senses. Consciousness in the mode of ignorance causes the production of ether, the sky and the sense of hearing. The cosmic manifestation is a combination of all these modes, and in this way innumerable universes are created. No one can count the number of universes.<TABLE><TD WIDTH="40%" VALIGN=MIDDLE><CENTER></CENTER></TD><TD WIDTH="60%">These innumerable universes are produced from the pores of the MahA-ViSNu's body. As innumerable particles of dust pass through the tiny holes in a screen, similarly from the pores of the MahA-ViSNu's body innumerable universes emanate. As He breathes out, innumerable universes are produced, and as He inhales, they are annihilated. All of the energies of the MahA-ViSNu are spiritual, and they have nothing to do with the material energy. In Brahma-saMhitA (5.48) it is stated that the predominating deity of each universe, BrahmA, lives only during one breath of the MahA-ViSNu. Thus MahA-ViSNu is the original Supersoul of all the universes and the master of all universes as well.</TD></TABLE>

 

The second ViSNu incarnation, the GarbhodakazAyI ViSNu, enters each and every universe, spreads water from His body, and lies down on that water. From His navel, the stem of a lotus flower grows, and on that lotus flower the first creature, BrahmA, is born. Within the stem of that lotus flower are fourteen divisions of planetary systems, which are created by BrahmA. Within each universe the Lord is present as the GarbhodakazAyI ViSNu, and He maintains each universe and tends to its needs. Although He is within each material universe, the influence of material energy cannot touch Him. When it is required, this very same ViSNu takes the form of Lord Siva and annihilates the cosmic creation. The three secondary incarnations--BrahmA, ViSNu and Siva--are the predominating deities of the three modes of material nature. The master of the universe, however, is the GarbhodakazAyI ViSNu, who is worshiped as the HiraNyagarbha Supersoul. The Vedic hymns describe Him as having thousands of heads. Although He is within the material nature, He is not touched by it.

The third incarnation of ViSNu, KSIrodakazAyI ViSNu, is also an incarnation of the mode of goodness. He is also the Supersoul of all living entities, and He resides on the ocean of milk within the universe. Thus Caitanya MahAprabhu described the puruSa-avatAras.

Lord Caitanya next described the lIlA-avatAras, or "pastime" avatAras, and of these the Lord points out that there is no limit. However, He describes some of them--for example, Matsya, KUrma, RaghunAtha, NRsiMha, VAmana and VarAha.

As far as the guNa-avatAras, or qualitative incarnations of ViSNu, are concerned, they are three--BrahmA, ViSNu and Siva. BrahmA is one of the living entities, but due to his devotional service he is very powerful. This primal living entity, master of the mode of material passion, is directly empowered by the GarbhodakazAyI ViSNu to create innumerable living entities. In Brahma-saMhitA (5.49) BrahmA is likened to valuable jewels influenced by the rays of the sun, and the sun is likened to the Supreme Lord GarbhodakazAyI ViSNu. If in some kalpa there is no suitable living entity capable of acting in BrahmA's capacity, GarbhodakazAyI ViSNu Himself manifests as BrahmA and acts accordingly.

Similarly, by expanding Himself as Lord Siva, the Supreme Lord is engaged when there is a need to annihilate the universe. Lord Siva, in association with mAyA, has many forms, which are generally numbered at eleven. Lord Siva is not one of the living entities; he is, more or less, KRSNa Himself. The example of milk and yogurt is often given in this regard--yogurt is a preparation of milk, but still yogurt cannot be used as milk. Similarly, Lord Siva is an expansion of KRSNa, but he cannot act as KRSNa, nor can we derive the spiritual restoration from Lord Siva that we derive from KRSNa. The essential difference is that Lord Siva has a connection with material nature, but ViSNu or Lord KRSNa has nothing to do with material nature. In SrImad-BhAgavatam (10.88.3) it is stated that Lord Siva is a combination of three kinds of transformed consciousness known as vaikArika, taijasa and tAmasa.

The ViSNu incarnation, although master of the modes of goodness within each universe, is in no way in touch with the influence of material nature. Although ViSNu is equal to KRSNa, KRSNa is the original source. ViSNu is a part, but KRSNa is the whole. This is the version given by Vedic literatures. In Brahma-saMhitA the example is given of an original candle which lights a second candle. Although both candles are of equal power, one is accepted as the original, and the other is said to be kindled from the original. The ViSNu expansion is like the second candle. He is as powerful as KRSNa, but the original ViSNu is KRSNa. BrahmA and Lord Siva are obedient servants of the Supreme Lord, and the Supreme Lord as ViSNu is an expansion of KRSNa.

After describing the LIlA and guNa-avatAras, Lord Caitanya explains the manvantara-avatAras to SanAtana GosvAmI. He first states that there is no possibility of counting the manvantara-avatAras. In one kalpa, or one day of BrahmA, fourteen Manus are manifest. One day of BrahmA is calculated at 4 billion 320 million years, and BrahmA lives for one hundred years on this scale. Thus if fourteen Manus appear in one day of BrahmA, there are 420 Manus during one month of BrahmA, and during one year of BrahmA there are 5,040 Manus. Since BrahmA lives for one hundred of his years, it is calculated that there are 504,000 Manus manifest during the lifetime of one BrahmA. Since there are innumerable universes, no one can imagine the totality of the manvantara incarnations. Because all the universes are produced simultaneously by the exhalation of the MahA-ViSNu, no one can begin to calculate how many Manus are manifest at one time. Each Manu, however, is called by a different name. The first Manu is called SvAyambhuva, and he is the son of BrahmA. The second Manu, SvArociSa, is the son of the predominating deity of fire. The third Manu is Uttama, and he is the son of King Priyavrata. The fourth Manu, TAmasa, is the brother of Uttama. The fifth Manu, called Raivata, and the sixth Manu, CAkSuSa, are both brothers of TAmasa, but CAkSuSa is the son of CAkSu. The seventh Manu is called Vaivasvata, and he is the son of the sun-god. The eighth Manu is called SAvarNi, and he is also a son of the sun-god, born of a wife named ChAyA. The ninth Manu, DakSasAvarNi, is the son of Varuna. The tenth Manu, BrahmasAvarNi, is the son of Upazloka. Four other Manus are known as RudrasAvarNi, DharmasAvarNi, DevasAvarNi and IndrasAvarNi.

After describing the Manu incarnations, Lord Caitanya explained the yuga-avatAras to SanAtana GosvAmI. There are four yugas, or millennia--Satya, TretA, DvApara, and Kali--and in each millennium the Supreme Lord incarnates, and each incarnation has a different color according to the yuga. In the Satya-yuga the color of the principal incarnation is white. In the TretA-yuga the color is red, in the DvApara-yuga the color is blackish (KRSNa), and in the Kali-yuga the color of the principal incarnation is yellow (Caitanya MahAprabhu). This is confirmed in SrImad-BhAgavatam (10.8.13) by the astrologer Gargamuni, who calculated KRSNa's horoscope in the house of Nanda MahArAja.

In the Satya-yuga the process of self-realization was meditation, and this process is taught by the white incarnation of God. This incarnation gave a benediction to the sage Kardama by which he could have an incarnation of the Personality of Godhead as his son. In the Satya-yuga, everyone meditated on KRSNa, and each and every living entity was in full knowledge. In this present age, Kali-yuga, people who are not in full knowledge are still attempting this meditative process which was recommended for a previous age. The process for self-realization recommended in the TretA millennium was the performance of sacrifice, and this was taught by the red incarnation of God. In the DvApara millennium, KRSNa was personally present, and He was worshiped by everyone by the mantra:

namas te vAsudevAya

namaH saGkarSaNAya

pradyumnAyAniruddhAya

tubhyaM bhagavate namaH

"Let me offer my obeisances unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead, VAsudeva, SaGkarSaNa, Pradyumna, and Aniruddha." This was the process of self-realization for the DvApara age. In the next millennium--this present age of Kali-yuga--the Lord incarnates to preach the chanting of the holy name of KRSNa. In this age the Lord is yellow (Caitanya MahAprabhu), and He teaches people love of God by chanting the names of KRSNa. This teaching is carried out personally by KRSNa, and He exhibits love of Godhead by chanting, singing and dancing with thousands of people following Him. This particular incarnation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is foretold in SrImad-BhAgavatam (11.5.32):<TABLE><TD width="60%"><CENTER>

kRSNa-varNaM tviSAkRSNaM

sAGgopAGgAstra-pArSadam

yajJaiH saGkIrtana-prAyair

yajanti hi sumedhasaH</CENTER></TD><TD WIDTH="40%"><CENTER></CENTER></TD></TABLE>

"In the age of Kali the Lord incarnates as a devotee, yellowish in color, and is always chanting Hare KRSNa, Hare KRSNa, KRSNa KRSNa, Hare Hare/ Hare RAma, Hare RAma, RAma RAma, Hare Hare. Although He is KRSNa, His complexion is not blackish like KRSNa's in DvApara-yuga but is golden. It is in Kali-yuga that the Lord engages in preaching love of Godhead through the saGkIrtana movement, and those living entities who are intelligent adopt this process of self-realization." It is also stated in SrImad-BhAgavatam (12.3.52):

kRte yad dhyAyato viSNuM

tretAyAM yajato makhaiH

dvApare paricaryAyAM

kalau taddhari-kIrtanAt

"The self-realization which was achieved in the Satya millennium by meditation, in the TretA millennium by the performance of different sacrifices, and in the DvApara millennium by worship of Lord KRSNa, can be achieved in the age of Kali simply by chanting the holy names, Hare KRSNa." This is also confirmed in ViSNu PurANa (6.2.17) where it is stated:.

dhyAyan kRte yajan yajJais

tretAyAM dvApare 'rcayan

yad Apnoti tad Apnoti

kalau saGkIrtya kezavam

"In this age there is no use in meditation, sacrifice and temple worship. Simply by chanting the holy name of KRSNa--Hare KRSNa, Hare KRSNa, KRSNa KRSNa, Hare Hare/ Hare RAma, Hare RAma, RAma RAma, Hare Hare--one can achieve perfect self-realization."

When Lord Caitanya described the incarnation for this age of Kali, SanAtana GosvAmI, who had been a government minister and was perfectly capable of drawing conclusions, directly asked of the Lord, "How can one understand the advent of an incarnation?" By the description of the incarnation for the Kali millennium, SanAtana GosvAmI could understand that Lord Caitanya was indeed that incarnation of KRSNa, and he could also understand that in the future there would be many people who would try to imitate Lord Caitanya because the Lord played as an ordinary brAhmaNa, despite the fact that His devotees accepted Him as an incarnation. Since SanAtana knew that there would be many pretenders, he asked the Lord, "How can one understand the symptoms of an incarnation?"

"As one can understand the different incarnations for different millenniums by referring to Vedic literatures,"the Lord replied, "one can similarly understand who is actually the incarnation of Godhead in this age of Kali." In this way the Lord especially stressed reference to authoritative scriptures. In other words, one should not whimsically accept a person as an incarnation but should try to understand the characteristics of an incarnation by referring to scriptures. An incarnation of the Supreme Lord never declares Himself to be an incarnation, but His followers must ascertain who is an incarnation and who is a pretender by referring to authoritative scriptures.

Any intelligent person can understand the characteristics of an avatAra by understanding two features--the principal feature, called personality, and the marginal features. In the scriptures there are descriptions of the characteristics of the body and the activities of an incarnation, and the description of the body is the principal feature by which an incarnation can be identified. The activities of the incarnation are the marginal features. This is confirmed in the beginning of SrImad-BhAgavatam (1.1.1) where the features of an avatAra are nicely described. In that verse, the two terms param and satyam are used, and Lord Caitanya indicates that these words reveal KRSNa's principal feature. The other marginal features indicate that He taught Vedic knowledge to BrahmA and incarnated as the puruSa-avatAra to create the cosmic manifestation. These are occasional features manifest for some special purposes. One should be able to understand and distinguish the principal and marginal features of an avatAra. No one can declare himself an incarnation without referring to these two features. An intelligent man will not accept anyone as an avatAra without studying the principal and marginal features. When SanAtana GosvAmI tried to confirm Lord Caitanya's personal characteristics as being those of the incarnation of this age, Lord Caitanya Himself indirectly made the confirmation by simply saying, "Let us leave aside all these discussions and continue with a description of the zaktyAveza-avatAras."

The Lord then pointed out that there is no limit to the zaktyAveza-avatAras and that they cannot be counted. However, some can be mentioned as examples. The zaktyAveza incarnations are of two kinds--direct and indirect. When the Lord Himself comes, He is called sAkSAt, or a direct zaktyAveza-avatAra, and when He empowers some living entity to represent Him that living entity is called an indirect or Aveza incarnation. Examples of indirect avatAras are the four KumAras, NArada, PRthu and ParazurAma. These are actually living entities, but there is specific power given to them by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. When a specific opulence of the Supreme Lord is invested in specific entities, they are called Aveza-avatAras. The four KumAras specifically represent the Supreme Lord's opulence of knowledge. NArada represents the devotional service of the Supreme Lord. Devotional service is also represented by Lord Caitanya, who is considered to be the full representation of devotional service. In BrahmA the opulence of creative power is invested, and in King PRthu the power for maintaining the living entities is invested. Similarly, in ParazurAma the power for killing evil elements is invested. As far as vibhAti, or the special favor of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is concerned, it is described in the Tenth Chapter of Bhagavad-gItA that a living entity who appears to be especially powerful or beautiful should be known to be especially favored by the Supreme Lord.

Examples of direct or sAkSAd-avatAras are the SeSa incarnation and the Ananta incarnation. In Ananta the power for sustaining all planets is invested, and in the SeSa incarnation the power for serving the Supreme Lord is invested.

After describing the zaktyAveza incarnations, Caitanya MahAprabhu began to speak about the age of the Supreme Lord. He said that the Supreme Lord KRSNa is always like a sixteen-year-old boy, and when He desires to descend on this universe, He first of all sends His father and mother, who are His devotees, and then He advents Himself as an incarnation, or He comes personally. All His activities--beginning with the killing of the PUtanA demon--are displayed in innumerable universes, and there is no limit to them. Indeed, at every moment, at every second, His manifestations and various pastimes are seen in different universes (brahmANDas). Thus His activities are just like the waves of the Ganges River. Just as there is no limit to the flowing of the waves of the Ganges, there is no cessation of Lord KRSNa's incarnations in different universes. From childhood He displays many pastimes, and ultimately He exhibits the rAsa dance.

It is said that all the pastimes of KRSNa are eternal, and this is confirmed in every scripture. Generally people cannot understand how KRSNa performs His pastimes, but Lord Caitanya clarified this by comparing His pastimes to the orbit of the earth about the sun. According to Vedic astrological calculations, the twenty-four hours of a day and night are divided into sixty daNDas. The days are again divided into 3,600 palas. The sun disc can be perceived in every sixty palas, and that time constitutes a daNDa. Eight daNDas make one prahara, and the sun rises and sets with in four praharas. Similarly, four praharas constitute one night, and after that the sun rises. Similarly, all the pastimes of KRSNa can be seen in any of the universes, just as the sun can be seen in its movement through 3,600 palas.

Lord KRSNa remains in this universe for only 125 years, but all the pastimes of that period are exhibited in each and every universe. These pastimes include His appearance, His boyhood activities, His youth and His later pastimes up to those pastimes at DvArakA. Since all these pastimes are present in one or another of the myriad universes at any given time, they are called eternal. The sun is eternally existing, although we see it rise and set, appear and disappear, according to our position on the planet. Similarly, the Lord's pastimes are going on, although we can see them manifest in this particular universe only at certain intervals. His abode is the supreme planet known as Goloka VRndAvana, and by His will, this Goloka VRndAvana is manifested in this universe and in other universes as well. Thus the Lord is always in His supreme abode, Goloka VRndAvana, and by His supreme will His activities there are also manifested in innumerable universes. When He appears, He appears in those particular places, and in every manifestation His six opulences are displayed.

<font color="#f7f7f7">

 

[This message has been edited by gHari (edited 12-27-2001).]

[Gauracandra 1]

This also reminds me of a radical new theory I proposed a few months back When you read it let me know if you think I can win the Nobel prize in Physics The topic was titled "Spiritual Physics", and in it I proposed a theory of why the soul never ages. Here is the link:

 

http://www.indiadivine.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000133.html

 

Gauracandra

[Avinash 0]

For your hypothesis to be correct, soul must be continuously moving with the speed of light in vacuum. (In the other thread, you wrote that it must be moving faster than light. That is not needed. Equal to light is good enough).

 

But, is soul really moving?

 

Time depends not only on speed but also on gravity. If somebody is living at a place where gravity is higher than where I am living, then I will age faster than him.

 

Do we conclude that there is infinite gravity in Goloka?

 

[This message has been edited by Avinash (edited 12-27-2001).]

[gHari 0]

My cartoon superhero accidentally discovered this two years ago, and while Supersoul, Chaitya Guru supports the theory, I have been unable to produce supporting sastric references:

 

http://geocities.com/sk8toons

 

He succeeded in exceeding the speed of light using Vishvumbaraan crystals augmented with gravity. Go figure, mathematicians!

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

But, is soul really moving?

The soul is "acalah", or nonmoving, and the Lord is as well.

 

What is movement? To shift from one space of accomodation to another. Krishna is everything, thus where is the question of Him shifting to another space of accomodation? There is nothing else but Him.

 

The soul is also nonmoving while in the conditioned state, for the soul is beyond measuremeant. Material movement and the soul are incompatable, for the soul does not occupy any material space. Without occupying space, where is the question of changing one's space of accomodation?

 

[This message has been edited by jndas (edited 12-27-2001).]

[Avinash 0]

Material movement and the soul are incompatable, for the soul does not occupy any material space.

 

My soul is inside my body. When I move, then doesn't soul move with me?

[Tarun 6]

Avinashji: Only if you join a movement, a bonafide movement.

[Sephiroth 0]

My soul is inside my body. When I move, then doesn't soul move with me?

 

Which is you and which is your soul? You seems to be confuse, thinking both are same.

 

You get into a bus (at 12.00 noon), take a seat and the bus begin to move from Location A to Location C (passing Location B). You arrive at 1.00 in the afternoon.

 

Now, if you were inside the bus, did you move from Location A to Location C in an hour? Logical answer - Yes.

 

But in another logic, this is a lie. You NEVER moved because you were sitting down in ONE spot for an hour. What was moving was the bus.

 

So, if you never moved, how could you travel from one place to another? Answer - another object moved, carrying you with it.

 

Are you that object? No.

Is that object you? No.

 

Therefore, it is equals to say that Soul and the Body are not related to each other. Death of the Body will not become death of the Soul.

 

Mind is creation of the Body (just as you have NO relationship with the driver YET he has responsibility to take you were you want to go).