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Gauracandra

When does the soul enter the body?

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how come you conclude that women are not worth of anything my dear brother. what makes you think so we are weak.

 

we are not weak in any terms. as per God is for every one and God is treating everyone. then why should it be different towards women. are we animals. is it a bane to be a girl.

 

my dear brother you have a mother. is she inferior?

 

i don't want to categorise men and women. i just want the answer for God being loved to all. i know as you are men you mean you are fortunate enough.is it so. and you are intelligent...what do you mean by this....

 

"It is true that women are considered less intelligent than men in most of the sastras "

 

what do you really mean by this? does God say men are intelligent and women are dumb. what a knowledge you are learning.

 

you will later tell you are the only inteligent person and your family is the only entelligent family in this world. that makes nonsense.

 

why can you say. men can't do jobs which women do. who don't you tell ??? please explain.

 

tell me you eat sastra's or food when you come home.

 

 

 

 

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Hari OM:

 

i am really sorry if you are hurt.

 

i never meant women are backward, and i never talked about "jobs" anywhere.

 

i just mentioned that the intelligence and emotional levels of men and women are different made according to their respective roles.

 

i have no problem, what ever you "job" you want to take up and no problem, even if you consider "men" in general or "me" in particular as inferior or backward to "women"

 

i was just trying to explain your questions from my knowledge (which may be entirely wrong), if you are offended i applogize and willing to retract all my statements.

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{Both contradicting with each other. IF Soul is NEVER born (and therefore) NEVER dies, then the 2nd statement CANNOT be true where Soul begin as a sperm which is successful.}

 

I think you're looking at it from the wrong perspective. If you are Hindu you will believe the soul is unborn and never dies as the Gita says so. If you didn't know that go read the Gita. I'm saying that the human being as a sperm is only a body for this life, of course it was other creatures in previous lives, but before it was a fully grown human being, before it was a baby it was a sperm - and before that it was in another life.

 

{1. Humans PRODUCE souls in them.

2. Humans ejacuate 200,000 SOULS where only one will fertilize an egg.

3. The other 199,999 SOULS die in a meaningless death.}

 

Is that so hard to believe? And for a start I didn't say that souls die, that's your misconception. There are thousands, if not millions of deaths of babies every day all over the world that appears meaningless and hard to believe, yet it still happens. We humans destroy millions of microscopic life forms, every time we breathe, move or sit down.

 

Yeah I know only one sperm makes it to the ovum and fertilized to egg. So are you saying THAT is the point when humans are reborn? I'm saying that every living thing has a soul and that includes sperm too? Are you saying that sperms do not have a soul? Are you even aware of the millions of microscopic creatures that live in our bodies, on our bodies and in our hair? Are you saying they don't have souls? So how does it have life then? Explain that!

 

 

 

 

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Its ok . but i din't get hurt. but i also din't answer to my question from your text.

 

why the equality to men women is shown in shivites

and not in vaishnavas.

 

krisha just play with gopi's.

but shiva treats parvathi as a part.

 

why contradiction.

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Hari OM:

 

And thanks for not getting hurt.

 

i think you have very valid questions:

 

we read from scriptures:

 

Krishna played with Gopis and Gopis played with Krishna

 

Shiva give one-half to Paravthi

 

But i don't have valid answers, in fact i have more questions - like why,

 

some gods are shown as Batchelors,

 

Some with one wife,

 

some with many wifes,

 

some women god are shown as gracious (Laxmi, Saraswathi, AnnaPooraneswari, ...)

 

Some are shown as angry (Durga, Paravathi)

 

Some are shown as Fericous (Kali...)

 

If you get answers for the above it would be great.

 

Also by the way, there is a seperate branch in Hinduism, where the original Brahamam is not considered a masculine Form (Narayana, Maha deva or Ganesha) but rather a feminine form (Adi Para Sakthi), references of this can be found in a scripture "Devi Maha Mathiyam" (we can't use even this also for food)

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Sorry but I disagree. There may have been some sections of Hindu society where women were treated inferior and some texts like manu smriti which made such statements but that is not true of all times for for the whole of Hindu society and certainly not all shastras. Also the same manu smriti states that a where women are honoured the devas are pleased and that a mother deserves a thousand more salutations than a father. In the Vedic times both men and women recieved education and studied the Vedas. As for Sri Krishna's statement in the Gita, he is simply saying that all are equal and you could take it as his criticism against those sections of Hindu society that said women were not worthy. He is simply saying that all are worthy.

 

Let's not forget Hinduism is the only religion where we've had female sages, even since the Vedic times, who've had the same experience of God as men (e.g Maitreyi and Gargi). These female sages led assmlies of men and women discoursing on spiritual knowledge. Women have contributed immensely to the growth and preservation of Hinduism. So how can they be inferior or less intelligent?

 

You can read more about women in Hinduism here.

 

http://www.atributetohinduism.com/Women_in_Hinduism.htm

 

 

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Hari OM:

 

i quoted some texts and did say they mean women may be less intelligent than man, however i also posted in that same thread, women are considered more emotionally strong than men.

 

it is a modern day concept that if some body is less intelligent, less wealthy, less beautiful, less powerful , etc., etc., it means they are "inferior" to the corresponding "more" person.

 

However most of the traditional scriptures acknowledges , less and more are but natural, and each one assigned corresponding duties as per their nature. it is not their fault, if you consider some duties as supreme to other duties now, they did consider all duties are equal and perfection in the duty is the best way to worship Him.

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I know you didn't say inferior, I mentioned it as it a common criticism of Hinduism by non-Hindus and I was just setting the record straight. There have been times in all religions and cultures where women were regarded as inferior and there has also been opposite views expressed.

 

About women being less intelligent only expresses the views of whoever said that, it does not express the views of the entire Hindu society. Maybe the person who said that saw that women were less intelligent IN HIS SOCIETY. Maybe they didn't recieve education in that period and he generalised thinking all women were less intelligent. Everyone is at different levels and there may be some women who are more intelligent than some men and vice versa, that's why I think we need to look at intelligence at an individual level rather that between genders. I don't know about India but in the west (especially UK)Indian girls outperform every other ethnic community (apart from Chinese) as well as Indian boys when it comes to high academic results. Now how can they be less intelligent?

 

I would agree that women are more emotional than men, but emotionally stronger? I'm not sure about that.

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If you are Hindu you will believe the soul is unborn and never dies as the Gita says so.

 

IF you believe Gita says the Soul is UNBORN and NEVER DIES, then it cannot come as a sperm, does it? Common Sense.

 

And for a start I didn't say that souls die, that's your misconception.

 

Wrong ... it IS scientific fact that out of a single ejaculation, 200,000 spermazoid is produced which ONLY ONE will fertilize an egg. Those who do not fertilize the egg WILL DIE.

 

Anyone who says otherwise are contradicting against Facts of Science.

 

Are you saying that sperms do not have a soul? Are you even aware of the millions of microscopic creatures that live in our bodies, on our bodies and in our hair? Are you saying they don't have souls? So how does it have life then?

 

Define first what is a Soul and what is a Life.

 

BTW ... why don't you log-in instead of acting like a guest. We both know who you are from the way you act. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

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as far I understand.

 

Its always good to see one in all and all in one. so its need not be related to either any creed of caste or inferior or superior. here only the definition of oneness comes.

 

shivties... states clearly that all are one by shiva and parvathi take role in supporting all activites. which is currently in modern world exactly happening suffering and sorrows are there as per each persons karma it can't be said that its due to women going out sufferings start..

 

but

vaishavites... doesn't include women in their growth of spiritualism they don't lead but just keep them dasi's as also God lakshmi ,andal is always a dasi under narayanas feet.but very well protected by the lord.

 

by seeing this. all the humans with the intelligence in them is equal to God's eye and never should misunderstood that women are backwards and less intelligent. Men has given oppourtunity to Women to come up and women should respect the same for their attitude and take as a gift to come up in spirituality.

 

as the receptiveness in very quick in women compared to men as its kept in order to recieve maximum benefit to grow spiritually.for men receptiveness is fixed from the birth which is gifted.

 

so its always right to say from my understanding that to compare on the terms of physical emotional ability for both male and female is totaly wrong from what we know. but from inside all are unique and take part in their own progression with God's grace.

 

in fact my understanding is. God is what we make of . as you said some God has two wifes and one wifes and no wifes. its all the nature of a man only which says its no nonsense when seen in right attitude. when we see it in different angle all false in a wrong cretiria. so each one has God in him. your Characters are said to be God. some time you get angry that symbolises the shiva, some time you get very soft that symbolises the vishu, some time you become evil that symbolises the asuras. these are all in mind not outside as God's photos.

 

in old times. as no body know about there mental attitude they used to convey the inner reactions as God's and they start respecting the same. but also tells that the soft part in you should be nutured long way.

 

when you tune your mind you go to softness. so only the lots of techniques are still being undertaken to tune the mind to make calm.

 

if i am wrong pls let me know. if any puranas related to this (inner ability of men and women are given pls let me know) in fact nobody has asked these questions. but i want to analys.

 

please ask you guru or spiritual friends that if what i state is correct."all is in mind and in our own nature. even God" . so don't seek it outside.

 

when all are one then why the dissimilarities.

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Hari OM:

 

there are two main levels of functioning - at spiritual level and at social level (called as "Nivarti" and "Pravatri" in Sanskrit)

 

At spiritual level, all are one and no difference (including the difference between God and Man)

 

However in social level, difference do (and should for efficiency and smooth functioning) exists. There are gender differences, role differences (difference between father and son), position differences (difference between king and his solider), etc., etc., and i don't think this difference would disappear anytime in the near future (now there is no caste based difference, but difference like manager-worker exists), and better would be to acknowledge the difference and create a smooth working environment with the differences, instead of trying to break all the differences and create a "One" group , of course if any body feels superior/inferior due to the differences , then it is wrong and needs to be corrected. However, please note that this is just my opinion.

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vaishavites... doesn't include women in their growth of spiritualism they don't lead but just keep them dasi's as also God lakshmi ,andal is always a dasi under narayanas feet.but very well protected by the lord.

 

Vaishavites think Woman have no capability to be spiritual and should remain as servant to Man?

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are all vaishnavits jump from the sky. shouldn't they respect Mother. is she not women.

 

what is wrong giving and treating a women equality in spirituality. ok agreed that they can't perform some rituals that is for goodness sake. but mentally also its taken that they are not fit for spirituality. as they say God has never advised for them.

 

isn't a covered mentality of vaishnavites part. even i know vaishanvites women would agree with me. that they are not given full right from their family due to the scriptures.

 

see Shivites they give equal importance in all temples to them. Lord never told ... men should come first and take my blessings. when the scriptures are treated to be text only like all do... women can be the best at it always. bagawat geetha as some one quoted that "when women can come up why men can't" that means when animals can get my . all should agree. so why only men are encouraged to do so. why not they plan to bring up the good mentality on women who are so reseptive. even though i agree they are God feared and take as it is.

 

on those days women were kept at home for just cooking as the prime job was in temples. its man made job again. and now you can see... how many women are working in your office as colleuges. why the status is not respected as same.

 

all should be treated same in all levels....somebody said the relation of the boss and workmen....will not change. is that the same in spirituality that mind will not change for men.

 

 

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Hari OM:

 

i think you are mixing so many issues (from Satsras, upanishads, modern day issues, novels, cinemas,etc.,) and creating a mixed vegetable rice pulao.

 

if all are one, then from whom you are expecting respect? can the existing "ONE" can respect or humiliate itself?

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I have been reading priya_K 's question i shall answer the same. subham only knows Bhagawath Geetha as he has read many times(its good read for 1000 crore times still you will not see krishna. but sure you will master the text to quote your saying)

 

dear sister priya. i have the answer for your question. Yes you are correct by saying all are one. God is in all. and they them selves should open their eyes inward and see. Bhagawat Geetha is a beautiful script as Guide for oneself.

 

talking about vaishnavites and shivites . vishnu and shiva doesn't say i am vishu and i am shiva follow this...they never asked you to say neither they tell you only should follow or be my devotee.. there is a freedom and its your mind which points and stops thats where all stand. if you understand this you are clever and shall progress soon on your path.both are not formed by Gods but mind formed and framed their own Gods with natural tendency. and all are following the same irrespective of knowing the truth. why? no body knows . as they don't want to and they only know following.

 

its true that mind is powerful to think anything and have contradictions. as you said men and women are not equal in spiritual terms. its not true.

 

both of them have equal roots to God and the only thing is how they take it with them self. just ask your own heart "Dear heart is God in me? God shall give you the answer thru you. don't ask any body and assume that you are not given or given spirituality.and now you can see how much happiness you can get. reavealing yourself to you.

 

Krishna is with you. don't go out in search of him. only fools do the same. Krishna himself says he is in you and he shall reveal him. but first we should accept we should open our eyes thru(heart to him).

 

ok sister hope this will give you clarity. krishna in you will open it up for your goodness. don't think you are backward of not intelligent or over emotional...others may say that as they think what they have studies or assumed is right.

 

just go by yourself. and as yourself the God in you shall answer.

 

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nice "mixed vegetable rice pulao". I think you like it.

 

which means you understand very less of reality. and sticking to a blind path. wake up. its not mix up .

 

if you can cook only plain rice. they why can't you explain. i never expected respect dear brother. i only needed a answer for the mind's reaction. if you think a "mixed vegetable rice pulao" then you are hungry.

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ok agreed that they can't perform some rituals that is for goodness sake. but mentally also its taken that they are not fit for spirituality.

 

I think only time women cannot perform rituals are when they are undergoing their periods. But that is physical reason, which doesn't make them spiritually unclean or something.

 

Frankly, I'm quite surprise at this sort of attitude. Vaishnavits who take Sri Krishna as God don't seems to know much about Sri Krishna at all.

 

Who are Sri Krishna's main devotees? Yogis? Men? Swamis? Nope, those Gopis who never read (or understood Vedas) yet capable of Loving Him the best.

 

Frankly speaking again, Men should understand that when comes to competition of devotion to God between sexes, Men are at disadvantage. Women has ONE thing which Men do not have - strong emotions.

 

By using this emotions, Women can love God like lovers, love of daughter to her Father, love of a mother to a Son and so on.

 

Men, despite of whatever they do, can only follow strict rules and guidelines because their Ego is more than womens (women have pride but they willing to let go of Ego and lower themselves to God easily).

 

But then comes one question ... if Men have so much disadvantage, why put them as leaders? Again, the answer is same as above ... by giving them responsibility to weight them down, they are required to approach God by doing their duties and fullfill their burdens.

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Hari OM:

 

my dear sister, i had woken up now and understood all are "ONE".

 

now i am going to spread this message.

 

i saw in a ship, some times back, a clean white man, giving orders, and some body in dirty blue dresses, doing what he is saying.

 

What a stupid, foolish, ignorant setup, i am going to tell them , "Look all are one, either all of you give command or all of you execute the command, what non-sense is this one is giving command and another is executing it, our dear sister does not like all these things, change NOW"

 

 

 

 

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Hari OM:

 

"I'm saying that the human being as a sperm is only a body for this life".

 

This looks logical, there is not enough data, currently how the soul gets a physical form. [ even though there are lot of material available on what happens, after death, very less available for before birth]

 

your statement, the souls assumes different forms seems to be logical, however as per your definition, does Ovum also has a Soul? if yes then the resulting baby has two souls?

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Thanks Vishiva,

 

Thats a very good explanation. i liked it better than the "mixed veg pulao".

 

as you said its really truth to the end. see God in yourself and remove other things which are made up by mind.what a logical and clear thinking.

 

as you see all God . you are speaking like this. that is indeed a greatness in you. which is very hard to be at. and you are . its very cool and great. but yes i also believe in same way.

 

some are pointing of "Commander in ship" what silly example to wake up. they pick up reality with spirituality. as Commander has a job to command and other has respect thats what. if its wrongly misunderstood that commander should not command or all should command. [what thats makes you think.]

 

yes scriptures are guide that is truly said my friend vishiva . i also agree many men or women go up as set in rules blind foldedly with out an analysis they don't cause any harm but they don't realise the whole thing in themselves. and seek outside which is never ending.

 

God is there in all. that is what the message should be as vishva's speaking is wise where he sees God in not particularly one to be misunderstood. in deed for those who have not realised yet they shall always tell God is this and that.

 

i take your words and shall pray God in my self. never mind. and i am sure i shall clear my doubts as i have faith in myself(God).

 

also thanks to Guest_2 .... who had given a wonderful link in this post regarding women . i read it was wonderful of the importance to women.

 

subham should read that before commenting or explaining just keeping what he has in his mind or studied.

 

 

 

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Thanks for your reply. and its nice to hear that you understood what you wanted.

 

Mind is what you make of , what you put, what you analys, what you read, what you do with senses.Its very hard to make others understand.

 

analys your 'self' and get the answer who you are? you will get the answer with in.no body can tell you who you are.you alone can analys and get the answer . scriptures are a beautiful guides to understand yourself. don't take it outwardly for the external causes. take it for internal causes.

 

i am talking not of low level things. just come out of the basic learning. and lead up. your contradictions shall solve. God shall be happy in what you do and shall guide you. but its your part to move up ...

 

as rightly said " standing in a right path is not wrong but you should move along not just stand"

 

thinking moves you on and on.that is the beautiful part of mind.

 

take care my sister and tackle your own complextions of mind at any times. take BG to your heart as guide its not a solution. you alone have the solution.Krisha will tell you from your heart.

 

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Hari OM:

 

My dear Gods,

 

it is ok if both of you like each others view and say so.

 

but don't blast my head in the threads between you...

 

if you don't like any of my views please point it to me or just ignore it.

 

i can't come in between two Gods' communication and start clearing my views.

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very nice vishiva. i am getting yourpoint from my inner heart that. you have clear perception of what is what.and can differentiate things rightly.

 

men like you clear the points in short and crips . it seems you have lots of experience not just reading scriptures and following one particular concept.hats of to you. thanks for your advice. i shall realise it.

 

I liked the point 'one has to explore oneself first' .Good one

 

 

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Its not blasting you or anybody. if you think you are getting blast take it. the proper use of words is necessary. not like "mixed veg pulao" . you can think of that only all the time.

 

realise about others questions before answering. not just quoteting from the scriptures gives answers. you have to realise it before you quote.as vishiva said...

which makes sense.

 

not just you hear and read something and take as it is. realise. don't harm others sentiments.That is Godly.

 

not as you are joking like two Gods communication.no body invited in between our thoughts . if you are learning learn in a corner. but if you want to discuss. put your opinion or else quit. don't say "mixed vegitable pulao" and make mock as God's communication.

 

if you can't understand God's communication then try to understand,don't just make fun.

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