Shiva - Swaminarayan - Jesus

[Guest guest]

Swaminarayana did not do anything in life to suggest he is God. He did many things that a devotee does, thus he is a devotee, and I offer my obeisances to him for being a pure devotee...He is not, however, God. He did not lift a mountain with his finger, he did not kill anyone with sudarshan chakra, and he did not show universal form.

 

In fact, he said Krsna is the source of all incarnations. Is that not clear enough?

[Guest guest]

this was an e-mail i sent someone, and have edited a little

 

Jay Sri Radha Krishna

 

I am sending this to you not out of jealousy or any inimical feelings, but

would like to know why so many people are blind to the truth. Please do not

take me wrong, as I have grown up in a family of Swaminarayana followers.

 

This is not meant to be an argument, but straight-forward statements.

 

Before I begin, let me inform the reader of the following: in the

Shikshapatri, towards the end, Swaminarayana has written that anyone who

acts against these teachings is not in his sampraday(in his sect); he also

says that his followers should follow each and every verse of the

Shikshapatri. He has also said that those who are evil minded and act in a

bad manner should not be given the Shikshapatri; this means that those who

will not act according to the Shikshapatri are not the followers of

Swaminarayana, and that they are acting in a bad manner by going against

these teachings, while at the same time claiming to be

Swaminarayana-devotees.

 

With that said, I will give two sides to the issue, and you can pick

whichever you think is right. You may agree with what Swaminarayana has to

say, or what his followers have to say.

 

***Note, the word "followers" in the following indicates the followers of

Swaminarayana.

 

Followers say: pray to Swaminarayana.

Swaminarayana says in the first verse that he himself prays to and meditates

 

on Lord Krishna, Who in His heart has Goddess Lakshmi, and at His left

Srimati Radharani.

 

If even Swaminarayana prays to Lord Krishna, they why should we not pray to

Lord Krishna?

 

Followers say: worship Swaminarayana.

Swaminarayana says: Verse 54 "Sri Radha Krishna ni je chitrapatrima tenu

aadarthaki darshan karine...". Translation: One should meditate fully on the

picture or idol of Sri Radha Krishna, and offer one's respectful obeisances

unto Them.

In verse 102, Swaminarayana has said we should perform devotional service

unto Lord Krishna with great devotion, because that is the mystery and the

message of all of the revealed scriptures.

 

 

This is a big one:

Followers say: chant "Swaminarayana".

Swaminarayana says: Verse 54 "Sri Krishna no je Astakshara mantra, teno japa

karine te pasi potanu vyavharik kaam-kaaj karvu." Translation: Only after

chanting the 'ASTAKSHARA MANTRA OF LORD KRISHNA' one should begin with other

duties, such as household duties,etc.

He has also written in verse 49: My followers should rise before dusk, and

should remember Lord Krishna Bhagavan, and then they should get ready for

the day.

Then, in verse 63, he says: our devotees should go to a temple everyday, and

should worship Him who is the husband of Srimati Radharani (Husband of

Srimati Radharani is Lord Krishna), by engaging in congregational chanting

of Lord Krishna's names with great devotion.

 

***Note: in the above argument, the followers of Swaminarayana say, as far

as I know, that the Astakshara mantra is Sri Swaminarayana because it has 8

aksharas (letters when written in Sanskrit or gujarati). However,

Swaminarayana has clearly stated that he is talking about the Astakshara

mantra of Lord Krishna in the same verse,where he says "chant the Astakshara

mantra of Lord Krishna."

 

What fool is there that cannot understand that "Swaminarayana" is not the

Astakshara mantra of Lord Krishna, when it is not even referring to Lord

Krishna when chanted?

 

Also, for those that do not know, the Astakshara mantra of Lord Krishna is:

"Shree Krishna Sharanam Mama"; translation: Lord Shree Krishna is my one and

only shelter.

 

Swaminarayana has written in verse 57 that after the chanting of the Sri

Krishna Sharanam mama mantra, the devotees should hold a lecture or study

the sanskrit mantras by Lord Krishna, and about Lord Krishna. And for those

that have not studied Sanskrit, they should simply engage Sri Krishna

Bhagavana's namakirtana (congregagtional chanting of the Holy Names of Lord

Krishna)

 

Followers say: Swaminarayana is the cause of all incarnations of Godhead,

such as Krsna, Rama, etc.

Swaminarayana says in Verse 108: And who is that Supreme

Controller(Ishavarah)? Know that ParaBrahman (the Supreme Brahman--greatest

being) purushottama (the greatest of all men) who is Lord Sri Krishna

Bhagavan(This is not talking about an incarnation of Lord Krishna, but about

Lord Krishna Himself), He is the Supreme Controller of everything manifest

and unmanifest; and that Lord Krishna is our worshipable Lord and He is the

cause of all incarnations.

***In other words, Swaminarayana says that Lord Krishna is actually the

cause of all causes, the cause of all incarnations, thus proving his future

followers wrong, so to say.

 

Followers say, like many of the Western world and Eastern world: Krishna is

an incarnation of Lord Vishnu.

Swaminarayana says in a verse about # 111: Forms such as those with four

hands, eight hands,etc. are created by the wish of Krishna.

 

And what form has four or eight hands, etc? So, here, Swaminarayana is

talking about Lord Narayana and Lord Vishnu; Swaminarayana means that Lord

Narayana and Lord Vishnu are created by Lord Krishna, and are created by the

simple desire of Lord Krishna.

 

To make it a little more clear: This means that forms such as Lord Narayana

and Lord Vishnu are simply expansions of Lord Krishna's, and they are

created by the sole desire of Lord Krishna.

 

 

Swaminarayana has also written: Remember Lord Krishna in the morning after

waking up, and then begin daily work.

 

When Sahajananda Swami (Swaminarayana) talks about doing puja, he says to

worship Lord Krsna, to meditate on the picture or idol of Radha Krishna, and

to chant Lord Krishna's Astakshara mantra: Shree Krishna Sharanam Mama.

 

Followers say: after we die we want to go to Akshardhama.

Swaminarayana says: The abode of Goloka is very dear to me.

And what is that Goloka? It is the highest planet in the Vaikuntha planets,

in the spiritual sky. Also, it is the abode of Lord Shree Krishna Himself.

 

 

__________________________

With that said, I want to know who is a true follower of Swaminarayana? They

simply say God has many names, but all of them are the same, and that is why

they worship Swaminarayana. So, according to Swaminarayana himself, these

people are misguided and are acting in a bad manner.

 

 

Also, Swaminarayana was a devotee of Lord Krishna; and, if he started to

tell other people that he himself is the cause of all incarnations including

Lord Krishna and Rama, and to chant Swaminarayana, etc. then he has insulted

himself by going against his own teachings. I don't know if this happened

or not, so I will not argue about it.

 

 

I was confused for a while some time ago about the following: if

Swaminarayana says to worship Lord Krishna, and glorifies Lord Krishna, why

do his pastimes show that he did so many things equal to Lord Krishna.

About some time ago ago i found out the answer. Don't get mad after reading this,

but someone has simply made up the pastimes. I heard that, in the show in

the series on Zee-TV, the show where Swaminarayana gives work to a

prostitute and gives her liberation, it is from the pastimes of Lord

Krishna. So is the fighting with the wrestlers in the childhood; and

probably so much other stuff. Does Swaminarayana talk about all these

pastimes of his ever in his classes, etc. just curious.

 

Sure, Swaminarayana may have been an empowered being, or an avatara, but he

came on this earth to spread the worship of Lord Krishna, and if anyone goes

against this and worships Swaminarayana, that is wrong because when one does

that, he goes against so many teachings of Swaminarayana.

 

With that said, I want to know, is there even one true follower of

Swaminarayana on earth today? By follower I do not mean a worshipper of

Swaminarayana, but a person who follows each and every order and teaching

given by Swaminarayana in the Shikshapatri(book of knowledge). If I simply

worship Lord Krishna, but at the same time go against so many of His

teachings consciously, am I truly following Him and worshipping Him?

 

thank you and Jai Jai Sri Radha Krishna

 

p.s. if you still think that Swaminarayana is to be worshipped instead of Lord Krishna, and that he is greater than Lord Krishna, and that he is the cause of Lord Krishna's existence, i have nothing more and do not want anything more to tell you. Jay Sri Krishna

[Guest guest]

exactly.

 

In fact, when Swaminarayan says wordhip the picture or idol, he actually means the deity - i.e. the presence of Radha-Krishna. Not that one should worship them as a 'favourite idol' like many 'followers' say...

 

I cannot mention anything about Swaminarayan maybe changing his teachings by calling himself God...all I know is that his written teachings are 100% compatible with Krishna Consciousness...his followers are not...

 

Perhaps it was part of his mission to corrupt his own teachings in order to keep people on the path of some sort of bhakti...

 

He was predicted in Vedic scriptures as a saint that would save some sinful so-called brahmanas - so perhaps it was part of his mission...

 

Swaminarayan should at the most be respected as guru - nothing else...

 

Haribol

[Bhavin 0]

first of all, if you don't know anything about the Swaminarayn sanstha don't talk smack about it cause everybody that has already tried were wrong. So basically there is Aksharpurshottam and then we have our guruparampara, And lord swaminarayan is not Jiva of anybody okay, so get that straight.

[Guest guest]

Jai Sri Radha Krsna

 

first of all, who told you i din't know smack about swaminarayana sanstha? took birth in it to begin with. also, sorry, but aksharpurshottama isn't told to be worshipped by swaminarayana, and swaminarayana hasn't said to worship swaminarayana either. give me one proof that he has, and please make this from swaminarayana's original teachings, not the bogus ones like the edited shikshapatri of swaminarayana.

WAIT A MINUTE!!!

if you call swaminarayana god, why change his words? just to suit your beliefs. "hear me swaminarayana, i think you are God, so i worship you, while i don't follow your teaching to worship Krishna, and at the same time i believe in the edited version of the scriptures you wrote but care not a filthy sense for what you truly wrote. and yes, i call ya GOD. AMEN!!!"

 

sure you can call the shikshapatri HOLY, but you have to read and understand it, without interpretations, without help from Pramukh swami or whatever guru; instead, accept it as swaminarayana wrote it. only then you can call yourself as follower of Swaminarayana.

 

you know, there is a deep message in that book, but one has to understand it by time, and not interpreting. why say that Krsna is an avatara of Visnu when swaminarayana has said that Krsna is the cause of all avatars?

 

you probably don't know, but swaminarayana has taught in the shikshapatri that Krsna is the cause of even Visnu and Narayana. where is that? know the verse wherein he says that four-handed (chaturbhuj) and eight-handed and so incarnations are created only by the sole desire and wish of Lord Krsna? well, who is this four handed avatara? it is simply Visnu and Narayana, none else. and eight handed is Durga and such. so, why say Krsna is an incarnation of Visnu or Narayana when Swaminarayana says other wise?

 

just an example. there are a lot of secrets in that book that you even have to do research on. like Vishista advaita and all.

 

hope you get the point. and i know i'm not wrong, so don't even go there. aksharpurshottam isn't even mentioed in sastras, do don't create it. then what is your ''lord swaminarayana'' if not a jiva? is he God and you his follower? wait, i forgot, you don't follow most of his clear teachings. so you're not a follower of swaminarayana; so, what is swaminarayana if not a jiva? if you follow his teachings, you can't worship him instead of Krsna; and if you don't worship Krsna and worship swaminarayana, you're not following swaminarayana. okay, so get that straight.

 

if you still don't get it, not my fault. i tried; i don't blame myself for you not understanding, I/A. and for any offenses incurred, please forgive, but that should only be for the harsh lang., not the infor presented. else it doesn't matter.

 

Jai Sri Radha Krsna

 

KrsnaBhakta@msn.com

[Guest guest]

couldn't have put it better myself...

[Guest guest]

First of all SwamiNarayan is not a Jiva.He has told that there are five Entities and they are Jiva, Ishwara,Maya,Brahman and ParaBrahman.And Lord SwamiNarayan is the ParaBrahman himself,Purna Purushottam Narayan.

In Shiskshapatri Maharaj has also written to be in accordance with the other Scriptures of the Sampraday."Vachanamrut" is the Spiritual text which if u read can understand every thing.In this scripture he has also told that he is the Supreme ParaBrahman(Amdavad-7,GaghadaII-13 and many other).And the 116th Shloka of Shikshapatri says :"Nijatmanam Brahmarupam Dehtraya Vilakshanam, vibhaavya tena Kartavya Bhaktihi Krishnasya Sarvada".Translation:"Identifying ones Atma as Brahmroop above three bodies(Sthul,Sukshma and Karan) One Should offer devotion (in Brahmic State) to Krishna" And here Krishna means the ParaBrahman.In Akshardhaam there is no male nor female but all are BrahmRoop i.e, in Brahmic State.Now tell me do you have every one in the Golok in Brahmic State? You still have the male and Female difference in the abode of Golok.The reason why SwamiNarayan Bhagwaan used Krishna Bhagwaan's Name every where is because if he woukd say he is god then no body would have believed him.And even in the "VACHANAMRUT" he has told in most of his Discourses that the "SatPurush" is the Door for ur Liberation."God and the Devotee of the God" are the words used almost every where by him in his Discourses.And that Devotee is his Choicest Devotee Gunatitanand Swami Who is Brahman Himself.That's If u become like Brahman(BrahmRoop) then u will be eligible for the Bhakti of Purushottam i.e., Akshar Purushottam Upasana.

And as Lord SwamiNarayan has told that he will always be present on this earth through his Gunatit Sant and since then has started the Guru Parampara.Pramukh Swami Maharaj is the Fifth successor of Lord SwamiNarayan.He is not God but he his the Choicest Devotee or Gunatit Sant of God that's why god resides in his every pore.

Its due to god is Pragat here in this Sampraday all the followers are able to control their senses and be away from the sense pleasures.We all have caught the hand of the SatPurush who is above Maya and who will definitely make us Brahmroop and take us to the Ultimate Abode of "AKSHARDHAAM".

 

There is no point in arguing but try to learn some thing.If u have the Knowledge of Scriptures its good but dont ever feel proud of having this Knowledge.

If u believe in Krishna Bhagwaan belive in him and try to understand his Glory fully so that nothing would disturb u from his Bhakti.See the Bhakti of the Gopis.Once they were asked that:"To what extent do u offer bhakti to Krishna?" They answered:"Burn our body to ashes after we die,then take a piece of hollow bone out of ashes.Then if u blow that piece of bone,"Krishna,Krishna" would be the sound u will here out of that".

Similarly We have that Conviction in our hearts due to our Guru that SwamiNarayan Bhagwaan is Sarvopari and AksharDhaam is the Ultimate Abode.Reading the ShikshaPatri by ourselves and hearing it from the Guru who is In-communion with God is different.First of all take out the I-ness from with in and Surrender ur self totally towards ur IshtaDev.If ur Bhakti is so Powerful then ur god himself will direct u towards the right path and u will meet the Satpurush who will take u to God's Abode.Make sure that u dont have Hatred towards any thing mainly any god or the Satpurush of God other wise ur soul will never rest to peace.

JAI SWAMINARAYAN

[Guest guest]

u said in another discussion that someone is a big fool...

 

your comments in the above post shows who the big fool is...

 

My advice: stop interpreting Swaminarayana and follow his teachings 'AS-IT-IS' - in other words, Swaminarayana says worship Krishna, the source of all incarnations...so please, do not offend Swaminarayana by not doing so...

[Guest guest]

why do a person have to critise other belives?

[Guest guest]

Sorry for saying some one a fool.Because he had written that having lot of sex is a good Idea.But this would never allow him to come out of Maya.

[Guest guest]

true...

 

but also you need to find out if your course of action is free of foolishness before criticising others...

[Guest guest]

This Last post should be aplauded!

 

In this day and age when the akliyug is well and truely set in here we are as hindus bickering between ourselves! Follow your ishtdev and salvate your soul! Go to the Goluk or whereever your naath is! Personally Akshardham jevu sukh to kaiye nahi male... but its down to your own belief! The person who made the last post has said it exquisitely. Many people post ... for want of a better word .!... and they are confused in there own belief... the basis of all of hinduism is ahimsa! ahimsa is non-violence not only of a physical nature, also watching what you say. Sometime things we say intigate moral and ethical boundaries which later lead to more worser things. if as hindus we bicker and back bite eachother then we don't believe in ahimsa and hence have absolutley no right to call ourselves hindus! So please stop the hating and stand up and achieve your own Moksha... and let others achieve theirs without having to justify their beliefs to anyone!

 

Good luck to all who wish to take this advice.

 

Jai Swaminarayan

 

 

[Guest guest]

this is a forum, a discussion place.. if you like to go on with your belief without being disturbed why come here?

 

if you came we discuss and we ask the demonstrations of what you say

 

where's the difficulty?

[Guest guest]

your post is a typical political post:

 

1) you said 'salvate your soul' - how can you do that unless you are a servant of God - not a human

 

2) 'It's down to your own belief' - no, reality is not relative, u either follow the absolute truth or you have to accept birth, death, old age and disease as your reality...

 

3) ahimsa - exactly, and swaminarayana said to pray to krishna as source of all incarnations - you watch what you say about who God is - otherwise Swaminarayana will be offended...

 

4) Moksha - is just impersonal liberation - it is not ultimate salvation...

 

5) All beliefs must be justified - otherwise theya re fanatic beliefs...so far you have not justified your beliefthat Swaminarayana is God - therefore, out of my genuine concern for your spiritual progress, i will keep asking you to justify it - not out of any desire to bicker or create sects...

[Guest guest]

YO ... I just hit this junction thru google and i think you are a complete idiot and moron. How could you defy what's true out there. Can you even contradict the SHIKSHAPATRI against incompetant Hare Krishna Books ?? From what I know, Edited versions of the Shikshapatri are made so that even the most common person can grasp the true essence of Hinduism. Whereas, most of Hare Krsna books sold out in the book stalls have captured the meaning of Geeta, that too bare minimum.

 

If you want to learn more on Swaminrayan go to www.Swaminarayan.org or ever want to debate or want to learn more on Swaminarayan, hit this email: pchirag_007@hotmail.com . I welcome criticism and rebuttals.

[Guest guest]

hope you get the point. and i think YOU, hare krsna, are wrong, so don't even stay where you are. Aksharpurshottam does not need reference, so don't google it. then what is our''Lord Swaminarayana'' if not a jiva - He is the Supreme Lord and thru Him comes all the incarnations. Yes, He is our modest God and we are his followers? wait, you forgot, as human beings, we try to follow most of His niyams ... mistakes happen .. To err is Human, but to forgive is divine and Lord Swaminarayan does forgive !! Ands thats why he is Divine .... Anyway, what do you know about niyams ... Nada !! YOU, Hare Krsna, do you even follow the single most important niyam of krsna Sect - maitain Celibacy ??? That's Lord krsna's foremost clear teachings. SO we are followers of Swaminarayana (BAPS) and you're just jealous. Most people are .. even the ones that are of different Swaminarayan sects...it's ok. Inferiority complex prevails in these kinds of circumstances. So, what is Swaminarayana if not a jiva? He is the ultimate BHAGWAAN. At the dusk, you want to go pray to his feet and ask for redemption from cycles of birth rather than one of the Avatars. He is Beyond MAYA and the Avatars themselves. In the ascending order, its

1. Jiva - Living beings with souls

2. Ishawar - Dieties - Demi-Gods, such as all the Matas, Shiva, Vishnu, etc.

3. Maya - anything that alters your path from GOD

4. Brahm - Divine abode of the Ultimate God aka Gunatitananad Swami, not to be misunderstood by Bhrahma, "the creator".

5. Parabhram - The Ultimate God - Sahajanand Swami aka Swaminarayan Bhagwaan

 

Get it?? We follow his teachings, so we can't listen to fools like you. We do worship Krishna. In fact we hold Him at a higher postion than any of the Avatars. We do worship Lord Swaminarayan and GUESS WHAT, we do follow most of His niyams. ANY DOUBTS?? HIT da mail - pchirag_007@hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

"YO ... I just hit this junction thru google and i think you are a complete idiot and moron. How could you defy what's true out there. Can you even contradict the SHIKSHAPATRI against incompetant Hare Krishna Books ?? From what I know, Edited versions of the Shikshapatri are made so that even the most common person can grasp the true essence of Hinduism. Whereas, most of Hare Krsna books sold out in the book stalls have captured the meaning of Geeta, that too bare minimum. "

 

1) You say I am a complete idiot and moron - therefore you are specifically disobeying the principle of ahimsa 'not to cause insult to other living beings' - this is not surprising since you don't follow Swaminarayan's instruction of praying to Krsna as supreme.

 

2) I do not criticise the Shiskapatri. I'm humbly asking you to explain why you see Swaminarayan as God, when the Shikshapatri says that Krishna is the source of all incarnations? Also, why do you criticise Prabhupada's Bhagavad Gita when scholars have confirmed this is as the most accurate and unadulterated translation of the original Sanskrit Bhagavad Gita? To criticise this is to criticise the Bhagavad Gita itself, because Prabhupada made word for word translations.

[Guest guest]

"hope you get the point. and i think YOU, hare krsna, are wrong, so don't even stay where you are. Aksharpurshottam does not need reference, so don't google it. then what is our''Lord Swaminarayana'' if not a jiva - He is the Supreme Lord and thru Him comes all the incarnations."

 

Then why does his own Shikshapatri say tht Krishna is source of all incarnations?

 

"YOU, Hare Krsna, do you even follow the single most important niyam of krsna Sect - maitain Celibacy ??? That's Lord krsna's foremost clear teachings."

 

Krishna says Celibacy is important for Sannyasis, Brahmacaris - but Grihasthas are allowed sex that is not contrary to religious principle i.e. for reproduction. Therefore we are following Krsna's teachings.

 

 

"1. Jiva - Living beings with souls

2. Ishawar - Dieties - Demi-Gods, such as all the Matas, Shiva, Vishnu, etc.

3. Maya - anything that alters your path from GOD

4. Brahm - Divine abode of the Ultimate God aka Gunatitananad Swami, not to be misunderstood by Bhrahma, "the creator".

5. Parabhram - The Ultimate God - Sahajanand Swami aka Swaminarayan Bhagwaan"

 

But Bhagavad Gita says Krsna is Parabrahman. Swaminarayan also says Krsna is source of all incarnations...

 

"Get it?? We follow his teachings, so we can't listen to fools like you. We do worship Krishna. In fact we hold Him at a higher postion than any of the Avatars. We do worship Lord Swaminarayan and GUESS WHAT, we do follow most of His niyams. ANY DOUBTS??"

 

Simple really, Krsna says in the Bhagavad Gita: 'Surrender unto me'

 

'Those who worship others are worshipping me indirectly, but in a WRONG way'

 

Do you follow his niyams? Do you worship Krsna as the ULTIMATE SOURCE OF ALL INCARNATIONS?

 

Do you follow his teaching of not worshipping him as God, but as Guru?

 

I don't think you do...

[Guest guest]

hi there,

this is to clear your confusion about present swaminarayan sect considering their GURU to be GOD.No, being a devotee , i am refusing to your comment.

we dont claim that H.D.H. Pramukh Swami Maharaj is God,but we only believe that God resides in him, his whole life is revolving around shreeji maharaj's bhakti, & henceforth he is very near to God & we realise that day & night when we do his darshana.

 

 

[Guest guest]

anyone can give me the following information:

narsimha stutis and mantras(avatar of lord vishnu)

their cost and company(like times music)

is it available in audio cassettes

give the information about it also

pls post it here

thank you

[Guest guest]

my dears pls stop comparing gods of various religions

god is one and is the power that runs life

your doing this will omly increase fights

be wise and respect every religion

thank you

 

[Guest guest]

jai swaminarayan

 

we respect all religions and avtars of god but bhagwan swaminaryan is supreme

you may say that he hasnt lifted a mountain on one finger or killed someone but that made him better.

krishna killed kans but kans was still evil inside, then what good was that to his jiva?

the difference with bhagwan swaminaryan is that he killed the evil nature of men. And he has said many a time that akshar was his best devotee. Even Akshar's greatness is indescribable, maharaj has said that thousands of universesare present in just noe pore of his body

 

Jai swaminarayn

[Guest guest]

now please explain who is swami narayan, never heard of him ,is he new saktyavesa avatara of Sri krsna ?

[Guest guest]

All gods are one. Swaminarayan is Krishna is Jesus. Dont fight like fools here...Just follow your own way and learn to respect others. Brahman extolled in the Vedanta is the same as Krishna extolled in the Puranas is the same as Siva extolled in the Tantra. Every philosophy will contradict other philosophies...so just follow one philosophy and reach the end and realize that allm spokes of the wheel are finally meeting at the same point.

 

Hari OM Tat Sat

[Guest guest]

I have put away other important work that I was pursuing in order to, I pray, ... that He is my mind, fingers, limbs, consciousness, thought, ... in doing this writing.

 

First : Even Radhe Krishna teaching(s) says beyond Krishna Himself is, and also He Himself is, Purno Purshotam.

 

Next: Even the fact that we are in discussion of all this is His Leela. Today is Ekadshi. Any of us (not "you") are observibg this? I am. So I pray I say this with a purer heart today than other days.

 

Note, I am (though)a weak follower of Lord Swaminarayan Teachings from my Akshar Bhram Swaroop Guru Pramukhswami. But, now know that there is no contradiction in my mind between Parbrhama Purno Purshotam Bhagwan Lord Swaminarayan and His-self as Krishna Leela, or Krishna of Nar Narayan at another time in His Kreeya.

 

Just an annecdote: Believe it or not, yesterday I had a dream where He, Narayan, as Krishan but as a waterbearer-provider was barefoot "Person" as a boy like you or me, in shorts, in my dream. He was like a friend (Sakha) to me in there. I touched His feet with my head even though He was not in His Krishna form. That did not create any waves in my mind about differentiating Him from Lord Swaminarayan of my teachings.

 

Who is that can with deep devotion say that, that grain of sand is not Him, that atom is not Him, that Proton is not Him, that electron is not Him, that Quark is not HIM, that Cosmos is not Him, the FOURTEEN Loks are not Him, the myriad universes are not Him?! He is said to be Everything and is said to be the Nothing itself too.

 

Sri Ram prayed to Shiv Bhagvan ... can you see the light? That means yes, Lord Ram is saying Lord Shiv Bhagvan is your Narayan, as is Lord Ram your Narayan too. Ram Bhagvan did not teach anyone to worship Him, though He accepted worship and did not dissapoint His worshippers.

 

Even Lord Ram had to get His Earth bound teachings from His Guru. Lord Krishna had to get His teachings from His Guru. Lord Swaminarayan had to get His teachings from His Guru. All Gurus had to be worthy on this Earth to teach. You have to have a GOOD Guru no matter who you follow ... not "pakhandis" ... even according to Krishna all will reach Him no matter what path they follow ... that Krishna is not in His Earthly form but His Divine form .. .

 

Can you question and not know the answer as soon as you ask the question, does the Supreme Parbhrama (outside Bhraman) Narayan Bhagvan not have the unfathomable but simplicity to Himself, the ability (no not the ability, but the fact that He Himself) to be that Guru ("Brahma-Vishnu-Mahesh") sitting in front of you telling you to pray to Krishna or no different but at another level HariKrishna-Sahjanand-Swaminrayan?! My Guru's teachings are not to worship himself, but to go find whoever suits you but just beware and follow a Satya Guru no matter what. I have to see a more Satya Guru than my Guru Pramukh Swami and His sants ... who are PRACTICE essence of TYAG of all contacts (all sensories -be it eyes, taste, ... and material) that can draw you into Maya.

 

As Sri Krishna revealed to Sri Arjun, His ultimate form is Purno Purshotam but He is difficult to grasp or comprehend, for a mortal, in that form ... so where is the difference ? Pray ... no not pray ... surrender your Mind, Body and Intelect to Him as Krishna in His loving form or His Mukti-Moksh form Purno Purshotam the Lord in Lord Swaminarayan as we follow as Swamirayans. We still study and follow all Shastras of Vedas and Sanatan Dharam, if we can grasp their depth and can wring out the essence on our own. Or, we can make life simpler in these Kalyug times and just follow the basic simple Shikshapatri's tenets drawn from the same roadmaps of Shree Bhagvad Gita.

 

... Sorry all fellow souls and travellers of mine ... I have to go do other duties before I finish this, ... grahast duties ... repairs.

 

We will pickup later.

 

Jay Swaminarayan ... Jay Shree Krishna to all !