What do you think about pets as therapy?

[Guest guest]

Any level you like - it is just a word.

 

Jo

 

 

-

Gayalondiel

Saturday, July 26, 2008 10:24 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

Well, if you don't ascribe a level of consciousness to animals that you do to humans, and you pay for the animal (or you pick it up from the rescue centre, whatever), and you pay for it's food and it's insurance and it's vet's bills and so on and so forth, then to a degree it is property, because you choose it but it didn't choose you.My point here is that I do't ascribe that level of sentience to animals, that's not why I became vegan, I'm sick of people assuming that that's what I do believe and there seems to be a blanket view that if you don't eat animal products then you must believe thatanimals have human-level sentience. I'm asking at what point it becomes ok for me to say yeah, it's a pet.

On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 9:58 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Youve lost me now, sorry?, I`m not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Animals are not property.

 

 

 

Peter vv

 

 

Gayalondiel <gayalondiel (AT) livejournal (DOT) com>

Saturday, 26 July, 2008 9:42:11 PMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

So hypothetically, you could comfortably use the term 'pet' if you were happy that animals didn't have an equivalent level of sentience with humans, and you did pay for an animal and keep it in your house and feed it out of your money, then there would be no logistical problem with calling it a 'pet', as it is in fact a creature that belongs to you?G

 

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 7:55 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey Tammy,

Pay attention, you seem to have missed a few posts?

Some people associate the term pet, with ownership, as in "my pet" - i own it, it belongs to me type of ting....

 

 

 

Peter vv

 

 

"tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com" <tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com>@gro ups.com

Friday, 25 July, 2008 10:13:03 AMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

In a message dated 7/20/2008 11:42:24 A.M. Central Standard Time, Dragonheart_ Kitty (AT) hotmail (DOT) com writes:

> I know a lot of us vegans do not approve of the term or idea of pets, prefering companions, but what do you think about animal therapy for depression treatment? Peter vv> >

 

HUH??? A pet is a companion and most are very good ones. I see nothing wrong with calling a pet a pet. What's the big deal?

 

Tammy

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

I can't believe it either - it is a term of endearment, and should not cause offense.

 

Jo

 

 

-

tammyco5

Saturday, July 26, 2008 10:18 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

 

In a message dated 7/26/2008 2:44:23 P.M. Central Standard Time, gayalondiel (AT) livejournal (DOT) com writes:

 

 

 

 

 

So hypothetically, you could comfortably use the term 'pet' if you were happy that animals didn't have an equivalent level of sentience with humans, and you did pay for an animal and keep it in your house and feed it out of your money, then there would be no logistical problem with calling it a 'pet', as it is in fact a creature that belongs to you?G

 

Okay...this is topic is getting really OUT THERE and I'm feeling like I'm in an animal rights fanatic group. Maybe I am? I just can't believe some people get offended because others call their pet a pet! I love my pets but I don't worship them. And yes, I do own them, not the other way around.

 

Tammy

 

 

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[Guest guest]



You see ... calling animals 'kids' makes me squirm - can't think of any other way to put it. Do you think that it is wrong to call kids 'kids' or is it just calling pets 'pets' that is wrong?

 

Jo

 

 

-

fraggle

Saturday, July 26, 2008 11:14 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

hmmm...

no offense, but taking your statement "you pay for food, insurance" et al, wouldn't that also stand for any human children ya had, or your parents, or anyone you care about or...

you get the picture...

fer my point o view..i don't have to anthropomorphise...animals have their own "being"...they have awareness all their own...just cuz it may be different then lil ol humans doesn't make it any less valid....

to go back, sorry, the word pet conveys ownership and property...my kids are not slaves.....and, if wee go that root, heck, they own me much more then....

Gayalondiel Jul 26, 2008 2:24 PM Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

 

Well, if you don't ascribe a level of consciousness to animals that you do to humans, and you pay for the animal (or you pick it up from the rescue centre, whatever), and you pay for it's food and it's insurance and it's vet's bills and so on and so forth, then to a degree it is property, because you choose it but it didn't choose you.My point here is that I do't ascribe that level of sentience to animals, that's not why I became vegan, I'm sick of people assuming that that's what I do believe and there seems to be a blanket view that if you don't eat animal products then you must believe thatanimals have human-level sentience. I'm asking at what point it becomes ok for me to say yeah, it's a pet.

On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 9:58 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Youve lost me now, sorry?, I`m not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Animals are not property.

 

 

 

Peter vv

 

 

Gayalondiel <gayalondiel (AT) livejournal (DOT) com>

Saturday, 26 July, 2008 9:42:11 PMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

So hypothetically, you could comfortably use the term 'pet' if you were happy that animals didn't have an equivalent level of sentience with humans, and you did pay for an animal and keep it in your house and feed it out of your money, then there would be no logistical problem with calling it a 'pet', as it is in fact a creature that belongs to you?G

 

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 7:55 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey Tammy,

Pay attention, you seem to have missed a few posts?

Some people associate the term pet, with ownership, as in "my pet" - i own it, it belongs to me type of ting....

 

 

 

Peter vv

 

 

"tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com" <tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com>@gro ups.com

Friday, 25 July, 2008 10:13:03 AMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

In a message dated 7/20/2008 11:42:24 A.M. Central Standard Time, Dragonheart_ Kitty (AT) hotmail (DOT) com writes:

> I know a lot of us vegans do not approve of the term or idea of pets, prefering companions, but what do you think about animal therapy for depression treatment? Peter vv> >

 

HUH??? A pet is a companion and most are very good ones. I see nothing wrong with calling a pet a pet. What's the big deal?

 

Tammy

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]



What's the difference between having a companion animal and owning a companion animal - how does it alter the situation in any way, whatever you call it? I have heard the argument that people have rescued animals - but all the same, they 'rescue' only the animals they like, so isn't this rescuing also done for some selfish reason - the fact that you want that animal. I'm not really sure what makes one different to the other.

 

Jo

 

 

-

fraggle

Saturday, July 26, 2008 11:16 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

sorry...everyone is different tammy....everyone views things differently...takes things differently, etc and so forth....certainly helps the world go round

sorry, fer me, i don't own my companions, kids, wotever you want to call them....

 

tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com Jul 26, 2008 2:18 PM Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

 

 

In a message dated 7/26/2008 2:44:23 P.M. Central Standard Time, gayalondiel (AT) livejournal (DOT) com writes:

 

 

 

 

 

So hypothetically, you could comfortably use the term 'pet' if you were happy that animals didn't have an equivalent level of sentience with humans, and you did pay for an animal and keep it in your house and feed it out of your money, then there would be no logistical problem with calling it a 'pet', as it is in fact a creature that belongs to you?G

 

Okay...this is topic is getting really OUT THERE and I'm feeling like I'm in an animal rights fanatic group. Maybe I am? I just can't believe some people get offended because others call their pet a pet! I love my pets but I don't worship them. And yes, I do own them, not the other way around.

 

Tammy

 

 

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With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.

[Guest guest]

Well, there is a difference, because when I have children it will be a custodial role of guardianship and teaching until such time as I can send them off to college and support them in building a life of their own. Agasin, I don't think any pets I have are every going to be able to go out into the wide world and fend for themselves, no matter how much I try to teach them. So it's not the same thing.

Hmm... This topic is making me feel more and more like this is an AR list too, which is not really my bag.On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 11:14 PM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

hmmm...

no offense, but taking your statement " you pay for food, insurance " et al, wouldn't that also stand for any human children ya had, or your parents, or anyone you care about or...

you get the picture...

fer my point o view..i don't have to anthropomorphise...animals have their own " being " ...they have awareness all their own...just cuz it may be different then lil ol humans doesn't make it any less valid....

to go back, sorry, the word pet conveys ownership and property...my kids are not slaves.....and, if wee go that root, heck, they own me much more then....

Gayalondiel Jul 26, 2008 2:24 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

 

Well, if you don't ascribe a level of consciousness to animals that you do to humans, and you pay for the animal (or you pick it up from the rescue centre, whatever), and you pay for it's food and it's insurance and it's vet's bills and so on and so forth, then to a degree it is property, because you choose it but it didn't choose you.

My point here is that I do't ascribe that level of sentience to animals, that's not why I became vegan, I'm sick of people assuming that that's what I do believe and there seems to be a blanket view that if you don't eat animal products then you must believe thatanimals have human-level sentience. I'm asking at what point it becomes ok for me to say yeah, it's a pet.

 

On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 9:58 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Youve lost me now, sorry?, I`m not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Animals are not property.

 

 

 

Peter vv

 

 

Gayalondiel <gayalondiel

 

Saturday, 26 July, 2008 9:42:11 PMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

So hypothetically, you could comfortably use the term 'pet' if you were happy that animals didn't have an equivalent level of sentience with humans, and you did pay for an animal and keep it in your house and feed it out of your money, then there would be no logistical problem with calling it a 'pet', as it is in fact a creature that belongs to you?

G

 

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 7:55 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey Tammy,

Pay attention, you seem to have missed a few posts?

Some people associate the term pet, with ownership, as in " my pet " - i own it, it belongs to me type of ting....

 

 

 

Peter vv

 

 

" tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com " <tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com>

@gro ups.com

Friday, 25 July, 2008 10:13:03 AMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

In a message dated 7/20/2008 11:42:24 A.M. Central Standard Time, Dragonheart_ Kitty (AT) hotmail (DOT) com writes:

> I know a lot of us vegans do not approve of the term or idea of pets, prefering companions, but what do you think about animal

therapy for depression treatment? Peter vv> >

 

HUH??? A pet is a companion and most are very good ones. I see nothing wrong with calling a pet a pet. What's the big deal?

 

Tammy

 

 

 

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Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at

-- Ms Madeline J Andersont: 01242 861269m: 07881 623654e: maddy.anderson

 

With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.

 

 

 

-- Ms Madeline J Andersont: 01242 861269m: 07881 623654e: maddy.anderson

[Guest guest]



Hi Fraggle

 

Yep - I have to say that I don't ever recall it being used that way by anyone with an American accent...

 

BB

Peter

 

 

-

fraggle

Saturday, July 26, 2008 9:35 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

thyose welsh emigrants...always picking up nasty habits from you brits

gotta say, pet in your sense, i've basically only heard on british television shows

different countries, different cultures...

gotta be a billion other words like that.....

Peter Jul 26, 2008 7:06 AM Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

 Hi Peter

 

Funny thing is, I've most often heard it used to refer to humans by people speaking with Welsh accents...

 

BB

Peter

 

-

Peter VV

Saturday, July 26, 2008 3:01 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

I think that it maybe confined to certain regions in the uk, certainly not heard here in south wales. I would tend to agree with Frag on this one.

 

 

Peter vv

 

jo <jo.heartwork > Sent: Friday, 25 July, 2008 11:35:21 PMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 It really doesn't mean that over here. It means a much loved person.

 

Jo

 

 

-

fraggle

@gro ups.com

Friday, July 25, 2008 6:31 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

we call our's "our kids"...

they are only pets when we get mad at them

hahahahhahaha

seriously tho, a lot of folks have issues with the word pet, as it denotes a level of ownership and subservience

jo Jul 25, 2008 8:35 AM @gro ups.com Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

 

LOL - I agree.

 

Jo

 

 

-

tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com

@gro ups.com

Friday, July 25, 2008 10:13 AM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

 

In a message dated 7/20/2008 11:42:24 A.M. Central Standard Time, Dragonheart_ Kitty (AT) hotmail (DOT) com writes:

> I know a lot of us vegans do not approve of the term or idea of pets, prefering companions, but what do you think about animal therapy for depression treatment? Peter vv> >

 

HUH??? A pet is a companion and most are very good ones. I see nothing wrong with calling a pet a pet. What's the big deal?

 

Tammy

 

 

Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today.

 

With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.

 

 

 

Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at

 

 

 

 

With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.

[Guest guest]



Hi Fraggle

 

Interesting point which leads to an interesting question... if you were married, would you call your partner your "wife"? After all, it's only recently that the term "wife" hasn't implied ownership, yet most of us still use it freely.

 

BB

Peter

 

 

-

fraggle

Saturday, July 26, 2008 11:14 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

hmmm...

no offense, but taking your statement "you pay for food, insurance" et al, wouldn't that also stand for any human children ya had, or your parents, or anyone you care about or...

you get the picture...

fer my point o view..i don't have to anthropomorphise...animals have their own "being"...they have awareness all their own...just cuz it may be different then lil ol humans doesn't make it any less valid....

to go back, sorry, the word pet conveys ownership and property...my kids are not slaves.....and, if wee go that root, heck, they own me much more then....

Gayalondiel Jul 26, 2008 2:24 PM Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

 

Well, if you don't ascribe a level of consciousness to animals that you do to humans, and you pay for the animal (or you pick it up from the rescue centre, whatever), and you pay for it's food and it's insurance and it's vet's bills and so on and so forth, then to a degree it is property, because you choose it but it didn't choose you.My point here is that I do't ascribe that level of sentience to animals, that's not why I became vegan, I'm sick of people assuming that that's what I do believe and there seems to be a blanket view that if you don't eat animal products then you must believe thatanimals have human-level sentience. I'm asking at what point it becomes ok for me to say yeah, it's a pet.

On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 9:58 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Youve lost me now, sorry?, I`m not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Animals are not property.

 

 

 

Peter vv

 

 

Gayalondiel <gayalondiel (AT) livejournal (DOT) com>

Saturday, 26 July, 2008 9:42:11 PMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

So hypothetically, you could comfortably use the term 'pet' if you were happy that animals didn't have an equivalent level of sentience with humans, and you did pay for an animal and keep it in your house and feed it out of your money, then there would be no logistical problem with calling it a 'pet', as it is in fact a creature that belongs to you?G

 

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 7:55 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey Tammy,

Pay attention, you seem to have missed a few posts?

Some people associate the term pet, with ownership, as in "my pet" - i own it, it belongs to me type of ting....

 

 

 

Peter vv

 

 

"tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com" <tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com>@gro ups.com

Friday, 25 July, 2008 10:13:03 AMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

In a message dated 7/20/2008 11:42:24 A.M. Central Standard Time, Dragonheart_ Kitty (AT) hotmail (DOT) com writes:

> I know a lot of us vegans do not approve of the term or idea of pets, prefering companions, but what do you think about animal therapy for depression treatment? Peter vv> >

 

HUH??? A pet is a companion and most are very good ones. I see nothing wrong with calling a pet a pet. What's the big deal?

 

Tammy

 

 

 

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Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at

-- Ms Madeline J Andersont: 01242 861269m: 07881 623654e: maddy.anderson@ gmail.com

 

 

Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at -- Ms Madeline J Andersont: 01242 861269m: 07881 623654e: maddy.anderson

 

 

 

 

With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.

[Guest guest]

It is a chat list, so any subject may come up for discussion at any time. Some people are hot on animal rights, some may not be. I always recommend deleting the ones you are not interested in. You could start another discussion on something you are interested in :-)

 

Jo

 

 

-

Gayalondiel

Sunday, July 27, 2008 9:29 AM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

Well, there is a difference, because when I have children it will be a custodial role of guardianship and teaching until such time as I can send them off to college and support them in building a life of their own. Agasin, I don't think any pets I have are every going to be able to go out into the wide world and fend for themselves, no matter how much I try to teach them. So it's not the same thing.Hmm... This topic is making me feel more and more like this is an AR list too, which is not really my bag.

On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 11:14 PM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

hmmm...

no offense, but taking your statement "you pay for food, insurance" et al, wouldn't that also stand for any human children ya had, or your parents, or anyone you care about or...

you get the picture...

fer my point o view..i don't have to anthropomorphise...animals have their own "being"...they have awareness all their own...just cuz it may be different then lil ol humans doesn't make it any less valid....

to go back, sorry, the word pet conveys ownership and property...my kids are not slaves.....and, if wee go that root, heck, they own me much more then....

 

Gayalondiel Jul 26, 2008 2:24 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

 

 

Well, if you don't ascribe a level of consciousness to animals that you do to humans, and you pay for the animal (or you pick it up from the rescue centre, whatever), and you pay for it's food and it's insurance and it's vet's bills and so on and so forth, then to a degree it is property, because you choose it but it didn't choose you.My point here is that I do't ascribe that level of sentience to animals, that's not why I became vegan, I'm sick of people assuming that that's what I do believe and there seems to be a blanket view that if you don't eat animal products then you must believe thatanimals have human-level sentience. I'm asking at what point it becomes ok for me to say yeah, it's a pet.

 

On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 9:58 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Youve lost me now, sorry?, I`m not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Animals are not property.

 

 

 

Peter vv

 

 

 

Gayalondiel <gayalondiel (AT) livejournal (DOT) com>

Saturday, 26 July, 2008 9:42:11 PMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

 

So hypothetically, you could comfortably use the term 'pet' if you were happy that animals didn't have an equivalent level of sentience with humans, and you did pay for an animal and keep it in your house and feed it out of your money, then there would be no logistical problem with calling it a 'pet', as it is in fact a creature that belongs to you?G

 

 

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 7:55 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey Tammy,

Pay attention, you seem to have missed a few posts?

Some people associate the term pet, with ownership, as in "my pet" - i own it, it belongs to me type of ting....

 

 

 

Peter vv

 

 

 

"tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com" <tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com>@gro ups.com

 

Friday, 25 July, 2008 10:13:03 AMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

 

In a message dated 7/20/2008 11:42:24 A.M. Central Standard Time, Dragonheart_ Kitty (AT) hotmail (DOT) com writes:

> I know a lot of us vegans do not approve of the term or idea of pets, prefering companions, but what do you think about animal therapy for depression treatment? Peter vv> >

 

HUH??? A pet is a companion and most are very good ones. I see nothing wrong with calling a pet a pet. What's the big deal?

 

Tammy

 

 

 

 

 

Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today.

 

 

 

Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at

 

-- Ms Madeline J Andersont: 01242 861269m: 07881 623654e: maddy.anderson@ gmail.com

 

 

 

Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at

-- Ms Madeline J Andersont: 01242 861269m: 07881 623654e: maddy.anderson

With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.

-- Ms Madeline J Andersont: 01242 861269m: 07881 623654e: maddy.anderson

[Guest guest]

You have completely lost me now, what has a wife ( a woman to whom a man is married ) have to do with a pet ( which is an animal KEPT in the home) which infers property.

Did I miss something?

Its about time I fired another bullet, this one has done its job.

 

Peter vv

 

Peter <metalscarab Sent: Sunday, 27 July, 2008 10:08:03 AMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 Hi Fraggle

 

Interesting point which leads to an interesting question... if you were married, would you call your partner your "wife"? After all, it's only recently that the term "wife" hasn't implied ownership, yet most of us still use it freely.

 

BB

Peter

 

 

-

fraggle

@gro ups.com

Saturday, July 26, 2008 11:14 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

hmmm...

no offense, but taking your statement "you pay for food, insurance" et al, wouldn't that also stand for any human children ya had, or your parents, or anyone you care about or...

you get the picture...

fer my point o view..i don't have to anthropomorphise. ..animals have their own "being"...they have awareness all their own...just cuz it may be different then lil ol humans doesn't make it any less valid....

to go back, sorry, the word pet conveys ownership and property...my kids are not slaves.....and, if wee go that root, heck, they own me much more then....

Gayalondiel Jul 26, 2008 2:24 PM @gro ups.com Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

 

Well, if you don't ascribe a level of consciousness to animals that you do to humans, and you pay for the animal (or you pick it up from the rescue centre, whatever), and you pay for it's food and it's insurance and it's vet's bills and so on and so forth, then to a degree it is property, because you choose it but it didn't choose you.My point here is that I do't ascribe that level of sentience to animals, that's not why I became vegan, I'm sick of people assuming that that's what I do believe and there seems to be a blanket view that if you don't eat animal products then you must believe thatanimals have human-level sentience. I'm asking at what point it becomes ok for me to say yeah, it's a pet.

On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 9:58 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Youve lost me now, sorry?, I`m not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Animals are not property.

 

 

 

Peter vv

 

 

Gayalondiel <gayalondiel@ livejournal. com>@gro ups.com

Saturday, 26 July, 2008 9:42:11 PMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

So hypothetically, you could comfortably use the term 'pet' if you were happy that animals didn't have an equivalent level of sentience with humans, and you did pay for an animal and keep it in your house and feed it out of your money, then there would be no logistical problem with calling it a 'pet', as it is in fact a creature that belongs to you?G

 

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 7:55 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey Tammy,

Pay attention, you seem to have missed a few posts?

Some people associate the term pet, with ownership, as in "my pet" - i own it, it belongs to me type of ting....

 

 

 

Peter vv

 

 

"tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com" <tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com>@gro ups.com

Friday, 25 July, 2008 10:13:03 AMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

In a message dated 7/20/2008 11:42:24 A.M. Central Standard Time, Dragonheart_ Kitty (AT) hotmail (DOT) com writes:

> I know a lot of us vegans do not approve of the term or idea of pets, prefering companions, but what do you think about animal therapy for depression treatment? Peter vv> >

 

HUH??? A pet is a companion and most are very good ones. I see nothing wrong with calling a pet a pet. What's the big deal?

 

Tammy

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

A lot of vegans are vegans for the sake of animals not just health, so you will probably see more posts on animal rights. You can always delete once you see the heading?

Alternitavely, you can start your own threads on topics that do interest you? Its an open forum.....

 

 

 

Peter vv

 

Gayalondiel <gayalondiel Sent: Sunday, 27 July, 2008 9:29:48 AMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

Well, there is a difference, because when I have children it will be a custodial role of guardianship and teaching until such time as I can send them off to college and support them in building a life of their own. Agasin, I don't think any pets I have are every going to be able to go out into the wide world and fend for themselves, no matter how much I try to teach them. So it's not the same thing.Hmm... This topic is making me feel more and more like this is an AR list too, which is not really my bag.

On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 11:14 PM, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@earthlin k.net> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

hmmm...

no offense, but taking your statement "you pay for food, insurance" et al, wouldn't that also stand for any human children ya had, or your parents, or anyone you care about or...

you get the picture...

fer my point o view..i don't have to anthropomorphise. ..animals have their own "being"...they have awareness all their own...just cuz it may be different then lil ol humans doesn't make it any less valid....

to go back, sorry, the word pet conveys ownership and property...my kids are not slaves.....and, if wee go that root, heck, they own me much more then....

 

Gayalondiel Jul 26, 2008 2:24 PM @gro ups.com

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

 

 

Well, if you don't ascribe a level of consciousness to animals that you do to humans, and you pay for the animal (or you pick it up from the rescue centre, whatever), and you pay for it's food and it's insurance and it's vet's bills and so on and so forth, then to a degree it is property, because you choose it but it didn't choose you.My point here is that I do't ascribe that level of sentience to animals, that's not why I became vegan, I'm sick of people assuming that that's what I do believe and there seems to be a blanket view that if you don't eat animal products then you must believe thatanimals have human-level sentience. I'm asking at what point it becomes ok for me to say yeah, it's a pet.

 

On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 9:58 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Youve lost me now, sorry?, I`m not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Animals are not property.

 

 

 

Peter vv

 

 

 

Gayalondiel <gayalondiel@ livejournal. com>@gro ups.com

Saturday, 26 July, 2008 9:42:11 PMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

 

So hypothetically, you could comfortably use the term 'pet' if you were happy that animals didn't have an equivalent level of sentience with humans, and you did pay for an animal and keep it in your house and feed it out of your money, then there would be no logistical problem with calling it a 'pet', as it is in fact a creature that belongs to you?G

 

 

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 7:55 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey Tammy,

Pay attention, you seem to have missed a few posts?

Some people associate the term pet, with ownership, as in "my pet" - i own it, it belongs to me type of ting....

 

 

 

Peter vv

 

 

 

"tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com" <tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com>@gro ups.com

 

Friday, 25 July, 2008 10:13:03 AMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

 

In a message dated 7/20/2008 11:42:24 A.M. Central Standard Time, Dragonheart_ Kitty (AT) hotmail (DOT) com writes:

> I know a lot of us vegans do not approve of the term or idea of pets, prefering companions, but what do you think about animal therapy for depression treatment? Peter vv> >

 

HUH??? A pet is a companion and most are very good ones. I see nothing wrong with calling a pet a pet. What's the big deal?

 

Tammy

 

 

 

 

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Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at

 

-- Ms Madeline J Andersont: 01242 861269m: 07881 623654e: maddy.anderson@ gmail.com

 

 

 

Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at

-- Ms Madeline J Andersont: 01242 861269m: 07881 623654e: maddy.anderson@ gmail.com

With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.

-- Ms Madeline J Andersont: 01242 861269m: 07881 623654e: maddy.anderson@ gmail.com

Not happy with your email address?

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[Guest guest]



Hi Peter

 

Possibly just a bit of history - in that women were considered for many centuries to be the property of men. When you were married, did your wife get "given away" by her father? Assuming she did (as most women still are), doesn't that sound very much like property?

 

BB

Peter

 

-

Peter VV

Sunday, July 27, 2008 6:50 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

You have completely lost me now, what has a wife ( a woman to whom a man is married ) have to do with a pet ( which is an animal KEPT in the home) which infers property.

Did I miss something?

Its about time I fired another bullet, this one has done its job.

 

Peter vv

 

Peter <metalscarab Sent: Sunday, 27 July, 2008 10:08:03 AMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 Hi Fraggle

 

Interesting point which leads to an interesting question... if you were married, would you call your partner your "wife"? After all, it's only recently that the term "wife" hasn't implied ownership, yet most of us still use it freely.

 

BB

Peter

 

 

-

fraggle

@gro ups.com

Saturday, July 26, 2008 11:14 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

hmmm...

no offense, but taking your statement "you pay for food, insurance" et al, wouldn't that also stand for any human children ya had, or your parents, or anyone you care about or...

you get the picture...

fer my point o view..i don't have to anthropomorphise. ..animals have their own "being"...they have awareness all their own...just cuz it may be different then lil ol humans doesn't make it any less valid....

to go back, sorry, the word pet conveys ownership and property...my kids are not slaves.....and, if wee go that root, heck, they own me much more then....

Gayalondiel Jul 26, 2008 2:24 PM @gro ups.com Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

 

Well, if you don't ascribe a level of consciousness to animals that you do to humans, and you pay for the animal (or you pick it up from the rescue centre, whatever), and you pay for it's food and it's insurance and it's vet's bills and so on and so forth, then to a degree it is property, because you choose it but it didn't choose you.My point here is that I do't ascribe that level of sentience to animals, that's not why I became vegan, I'm sick of people assuming that that's what I do believe and there seems to be a blanket view that if you don't eat animal products then you must believe thatanimals have human-level sentience. I'm asking at what point it becomes ok for me to say yeah, it's a pet.

On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 9:58 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Youve lost me now, sorry?, I`m not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Animals are not property.

 

 

 

Peter vv

 

 

Gayalondiel <gayalondiel@ livejournal. com>@gro ups.com

Saturday, 26 July, 2008 9:42:11 PMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

So hypothetically, you could comfortably use the term 'pet' if you were happy that animals didn't have an equivalent level of sentience with humans, and you did pay for an animal and keep it in your house and feed it out of your money, then there would be no logistical problem with calling it a 'pet', as it is in fact a creature that belongs to you?G

 

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 7:55 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey Tammy,

Pay attention, you seem to have missed a few posts?

Some people associate the term pet, with ownership, as in "my pet" - i own it, it belongs to me type of ting....

 

 

 

Peter vv

 

 

"tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com" <tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com>@gro ups.com

Friday, 25 July, 2008 10:13:03 AMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

In a message dated 7/20/2008 11:42:24 A.M. Central Standard Time, Dragonheart_ Kitty (AT) hotmail (DOT) com writes:

> I know a lot of us vegans do not approve of the term or idea of pets, prefering companions, but what do you think about animal therapy for depression treatment? Peter vv> >

 

HUH??? A pet is a companion and most are very good ones. I see nothing wrong with calling a pet a pet. What's the big deal?

 

Tammy

 

 

 

Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today.

 

 

Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at

-- Ms Madeline J Andersont: 01242 861269m: 07881 623654e: maddy.anderson@ gmail.com

 

 

Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at -- Ms Madeline J Andersont: 01242 861269m: 07881 623654e: maddy.anderson@ gmail.com

With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hey steady on Jo, some people could find the phrase " they rescue only the animals they like", offensive. I have rescued animals no-one else would have, ( currently have 3 ) and a lot of people do the same.The cats in my house are healthy little tikes who come and go as they please. I merely provide them with food and care and somewhere warm to sleep. I also feed their mother ( even though she has a home ) because she asks. I , and a lot of others also spent a lot of time, effort, and money trying to find people who would like to help strays and look after them.

 

Peter vv

 

jo <jo.heartwork Sent: Saturday, 26 July, 2008 11:57:07 PMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 What's the difference between having a companion animal and owning a companion animal - how does it alter the situation in any way, whatever you call it? I have heard the argument that people have rescued animals - but all the same, they 'rescue' only the animals they like, so isn't this rescuing also done for some selfish reason - the fact that you want that animal. I'm not really sure what makes one different to the other.

 

Jo

 

 

-

fraggle

@gro ups.com

Saturday, July 26, 2008 11:16 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

sorry...everyone is different tammy....everyone views things differently. ..takes things differently, etc and so forth....certainly helps the world go round

sorry, fer me, i don't own my companions, kids, wotever you want to call them....

 

tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com Jul 26, 2008 2:18 PM @gro ups.com Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

 

 

In a message dated 7/26/2008 2:44:23 P.M. Central Standard Time, gayalondiel@ livejournal. com writes:

 

 

 

 

 

So hypothetically, you could comfortably use the term 'pet' if you were happy that animals didn't have an equivalent level of sentience with humans, and you did pay for an animal and keep it in your house and feed it out of your money, then there would be no logistical problem with calling it a 'pet', as it is in fact a creature that belongs to you?G

 

Okay...this is topic is getting really OUT THERE and I'm feeling like I'm in an animal rights fanatic group. Maybe I am? I just can't believe some people get offended because others call their pet a pet! I love my pets but I don't worship them. And yes, I do own them, not the other way around.

 

Tammy

 

 

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[Guest guest]

And what is a young goat called?

 

 

 

Peter vv

 

jo <jo.heartwork Sent: Saturday, 26 July, 2008 11:52:21 PMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 You see ... calling animals 'kids' makes me squirm - can't think of any other way to put it. Do you think that it is wrong to call kids 'kids' or is it just calling pets 'pets' that is wrong?

 

Jo

 

 

-

fraggle

@gro ups.com

Saturday, July 26, 2008 11:14 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

hmmm...

no offense, but taking your statement "you pay for food, insurance" et al, wouldn't that also stand for any human children ya had, or your parents, or anyone you care about or...

you get the picture...

fer my point o view..i don't have to anthropomorphise. ..animals have their own "being"...they have awareness all their own...just cuz it may be different then lil ol humans doesn't make it any less valid....

to go back, sorry, the word pet conveys ownership and property...my kids are not slaves.....and, if wee go that root, heck, they own me much more then....

Gayalondiel Jul 26, 2008 2:24 PM @gro ups.com Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

 

Well, if you don't ascribe a level of consciousness to animals that you do to humans, and you pay for the animal (or you pick it up from the rescue centre, whatever), and you pay for it's food and it's insurance and it's vet's bills and so on and so forth, then to a degree it is property, because you choose it but it didn't choose you.My point here is that I do't ascribe that level of sentience to animals, that's not why I became vegan, I'm sick of people assuming that that's what I do believe and there seems to be a blanket view that if you don't eat animal products then you must believe thatanimals have human-level sentience. I'm asking at what point it becomes ok for me to say yeah, it's a pet.

On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 9:58 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Youve lost me now, sorry?, I`m not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Animals are not property.

 

 

 

Peter vv

 

 

Gayalondiel <gayalondiel@ livejournal. com>@gro ups.com

Saturday, 26 July, 2008 9:42:11 PMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

So hypothetically, you could comfortably use the term 'pet' if you were happy that animals didn't have an equivalent level of sentience with humans, and you did pay for an animal and keep it in your house and feed it out of your money, then there would be no logistical problem with calling it a 'pet', as it is in fact a creature that belongs to you?G

 

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 7:55 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey Tammy,

Pay attention, you seem to have missed a few posts?

Some people associate the term pet, with ownership, as in "my pet" - i own it, it belongs to me type of ting....

 

 

 

Peter vv

 

 

"tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com" <tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com>@gro ups.com

Friday, 25 July, 2008 10:13:03 AMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

In a message dated 7/20/2008 11:42:24 A.M. Central Standard Time, Dragonheart_ Kitty (AT) hotmail (DOT) com writes:

> I know a lot of us vegans do not approve of the term or idea of pets, prefering companions, but what do you think about animal therapy for depression treatment? Peter vv> >

 

HUH??? A pet is a companion and most are very good ones. I see nothing wrong with calling a pet a pet. What's the big deal?

 

Tammy

 

 

 

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Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at

-- Ms Madeline J Andersont: 01242 861269m: 07881 623654e: maddy.anderson@ gmail.com

 

 

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With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Well they certainly act like it!

 

 

 

Peter vv

 

jo <jo.heartwork Sent: Saturday, 26 July, 2008 11:48:26 PMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 They are not kids either!

 

Jo

 

 

-

Peter VV

@gro ups.com

Saturday, July 26, 2008 9:46 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

thats cause they are not pets....

 

 

Peter vv

 

jo <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comSaturday, 26 July, 2008 7:01:23 PMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 Well - I've hear you and Fraggle call your pets 'furkids'!

 

Jo

 

 

-

Peter VV

@gro ups.com

Saturday, July 26, 2008 2:59 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

I agree, but talking about the common man and woman here, the type that doesnt know what etymology means, or use it in conversation. The majority use of the term pet refers to animals not humans. Wheras wife,husband & son & father are all descriptions of human family members not animals, wheras pet could be used by some as slang to describe a human, but not the other way around.

 

 

Peter vv

 

Peter <metalscarab@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comSaturday, 26 July, 2008 9:40:30 AMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 Hi Peter

 

You seem to have missed a few as well... it's been pointed out several times that that's not inherent in the etymology of the word, and that the same could be said of any relationship term: "wife", "husband", "son", "father"....

 

BB

Peter

 

-

Peter VV

@gro ups.com

Friday, July 25, 2008 7:55 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

Hey Tammy,

Pay attention, you seem to have missed a few posts?

Some people associate the term pet, with ownership, as in "my pet" - i own it, it belongs to me type of ting....

 

 

 

Peter vv

 

"tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com" <tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com>@gro ups.comFriday, 25 July, 2008 10:13:03 AMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

In a message dated 7/20/2008 11:42:24 A.M. Central Standard Time, Dragonheart_ Kitty (AT) hotmail (DOT) com writes:

> I know a lot of us vegans do not approve of the term or idea of pets, prefering companions, but what do you think about animal therapy for depression treatment? Peter vv> >

 

HUH??? A pet is a companion and most are very good ones. I see nothing wrong with calling a pet a pet. What's the big deal?

 

Tammy

 

 

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Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at

 

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[Guest guest]

Point taken, so its an outdated concept. Maybe the same should be said of people "owning" pets.

 

 

 

Peter vv

 

Peter <metalscarab Sent: Sunday, 27 July, 2008 6:54:24 PMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 Hi Peter

 

Possibly just a bit of history - in that women were considered for many centuries to be the property of men. When you were married, did your wife get "given away" by her father? Assuming she did (as most women still are), doesn't that sound very much like property?

 

BB

Peter

 

-

Peter VV

@gro ups.com

Sunday, July 27, 2008 6:50 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

You have completely lost me now, what has a wife ( a woman to whom a man is married ) have to do with a pet ( which is an animal KEPT in the home) which infers property.

Did I miss something?

Its about time I fired another bullet, this one has done its job.

 

Peter vv

 

Peter <metalscarab@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comSunday, 27 July, 2008 10:08:03 AMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 Hi Fraggle

 

Interesting point which leads to an interesting question... if you were married, would you call your partner your "wife"? After all, it's only recently that the term "wife" hasn't implied ownership, yet most of us still use it freely.

 

BB

Peter

 

 

-

fraggle

@gro ups.com

Saturday, July 26, 2008 11:14 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

hmmm...

no offense, but taking your statement "you pay for food, insurance" et al, wouldn't that also stand for any human children ya had, or your parents, or anyone you care about or...

you get the picture...

fer my point o view..i don't have to anthropomorphise. ..animals have their own "being"...they have awareness all their own...just cuz it may be different then lil ol humans doesn't make it any less valid....

to go back, sorry, the word pet conveys ownership and property...my kids are not slaves.....and, if wee go that root, heck, they own me much more then....

Gayalondiel Jul 26, 2008 2:24 PM @gro ups.com Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

 

Well, if you don't ascribe a level of consciousness to animals that you do to humans, and you pay for the animal (or you pick it up from the rescue centre, whatever), and you pay for it's food and it's insurance and it's vet's bills and so on and so forth, then to a degree it is property, because you choose it but it didn't choose you.My point here is that I do't ascribe that level of sentience to animals, that's not why I became vegan, I'm sick of people assuming that that's what I do believe and there seems to be a blanket view that if you don't eat animal products then you must believe thatanimals have human-level sentience. I'm asking at what point it becomes ok for me to say yeah, it's a pet.

On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 9:58 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Youve lost me now, sorry?, I`m not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Animals are not property.

 

 

 

Peter vv

 

 

Gayalondiel <gayalondiel@ livejournal. com>@gro ups.com

Saturday, 26 July, 2008 9:42:11 PMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

So hypothetically, you could comfortably use the term 'pet' if you were happy that animals didn't have an equivalent level of sentience with humans, and you did pay for an animal and keep it in your house and feed it out of your money, then there would be no logistical problem with calling it a 'pet', as it is in fact a creature that belongs to you?G

 

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 7:55 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey Tammy,

Pay attention, you seem to have missed a few posts?

Some people associate the term pet, with ownership, as in "my pet" - i own it, it belongs to me type of ting....

 

 

 

Peter vv

 

 

"tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com" <tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com>@gro ups.com

Friday, 25 July, 2008 10:13:03 AMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

In a message dated 7/20/2008 11:42:24 A.M. Central Standard Time, Dragonheart_ Kitty (AT) hotmail (DOT) com writes:

> I know a lot of us vegans do not approve of the term or idea of pets, prefering companions, but what do you think about animal therapy for depression treatment? Peter vv> >

 

HUH??? A pet is a companion and most are very good ones. I see nothing wrong with calling a pet a pet. What's the big deal?

 

Tammy

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

What about all the animals that keep showing up at our house without

asking if we want them? The little free-loaders take our food, and

our attention, but they refuse to get jobs and pull their weight

around here. I'd love to know how all the animals know how to pick

the suckers out of a crowd. With all the doors around here, they

always manage to chose ours to cry at. Odd.

 

Words are strange. It's remarkable how much power we give words, just

a few letters shuffled in one direction or another, and one can start

a riot.

 

~Faith

 

 

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

Posted by: " Peter VV " swpgh01 bty406720

Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:59 am (PDT)

Hey steady on Jo, some people could find the phrase " they rescue only

the animals they like " , offensive. I have rescued animals no-one else

would have, ( currently have 3 ) and a lot of people do the same.The

cats in my house are healthy little tikes who come and go as they

please. I merely provide them with food and care and somewhere warm to

sleep. I also feed their mother ( even though she has a home ) because

she asks. I , and a lot of others also spent a lot of time, effort,

and money trying to find people who would like to help strays and look

after them.

 

Peter vv

 

 

jo <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com>

@gro ups.com

Saturday, 26 July, 2008 11:57:07 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

& #65279;

What's the difference between having a companion animal and owning a

companion animal - how does it alter the situation in any way,

whatever you call it? I have heard the argument that people have

rescued animals - but all the same, they 'rescue' only the animals

they like, so isn't this rescuing also done for some selfish reason -

the fact that you want that animal. I'm not really sure what makes

one different to the other.

 

Jo

[Guest guest]



No offense intended, just an observation. You have indeed been extremely kind to your cats - but that is part of the point. You love cats so you help them.

 

Has anyone though of adopting a child? -)

 

Jo

 

 

-

Peter VV

Sunday, July 27, 2008 6:59 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

Hey steady on Jo, some people could find the phrase " they rescue only the animals they like", offensive. I have rescued animals no-one else would have, ( currently have 3 ) and a lot of people do the same.The cats in my house are healthy little tikes who come and go as they please. I merely provide them with food and care and somewhere warm to sleep. I also feed their mother ( even though she has a home ) because she asks. I , and a lot of others also spent a lot of time, effort, and money trying to find people who would like to help strays and look after them.

Peter vv

 

jo <jo.heartwork > Sent: Saturday, 26 July, 2008 11:57:07 PMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 What's the difference between having a companion animal and owning a companion animal - how does it alter the situation in any way, whatever you call it? I have heard the argument that people have rescued animals - but all the same, they 'rescue' only the animals they like, so isn't this rescuing also done for some selfish reason - the fact that you want that animal. I'm not really sure what makes one different to the other.

 

Jo

 

 

-

fraggle

@gro ups.com

Saturday, July 26, 2008 11:16 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

sorry...everyone is different tammy....everyone views things differently. ..takes things differently, etc and so forth....certainly helps the world go round

sorry, fer me, i don't own my companions, kids, wotever you want to call them....

 

tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com Jul 26, 2008 2:18 PM @gro ups.com Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

 

 

In a message dated 7/26/2008 2:44:23 P.M. Central Standard Time, gayalondiel@ livejournal. com writes:

 

 

 

 

 

So hypothetically, you could comfortably use the term 'pet' if you were happy that animals didn't have an equivalent level of sentience with humans, and you did pay for an animal and keep it in your house and feed it out of your money, then there would be no logistical problem with calling it a 'pet', as it is in fact a creature that belongs to you?G

 

Okay...this is topic is getting really OUT THERE and I'm feeling like I'm in an animal rights fanatic group. Maybe I am? I just can't believe some people get offended because others call their pet a pet! I love my pets but I don't worship them. And yes, I do own them, not the other way around.

 

Tammy

 

 

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[Guest guest]



I don't think you or Fraggle have any goats though.

 

Jo

 

 

-

Peter VV

Sunday, July 27, 2008 7:00 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

And what is a young goat called?

 

 

Peter vv

 

jo <jo.heartwork > Sent: Saturday, 26 July, 2008 11:52:21 PMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 You see ... calling animals 'kids' makes me squirm - can't think of any other way to put it. Do you think that it is wrong to call kids 'kids' or is it just calling pets 'pets' that is wrong?

 

Jo

 

 

-

fraggle

@gro ups.com

Saturday, July 26, 2008 11:14 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

hmmm...

no offense, but taking your statement "you pay for food, insurance" et al, wouldn't that also stand for any human children ya had, or your parents, or anyone you care about or...

you get the picture...

fer my point o view..i don't have to anthropomorphise. ..animals have their own "being"...they have awareness all their own...just cuz it may be different then lil ol humans doesn't make it any less valid....

to go back, sorry, the word pet conveys ownership and property...my kids are not slaves.....and, if wee go that root, heck, they own me much more then....

Gayalondiel Jul 26, 2008 2:24 PM @gro ups.com Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

 

Well, if you don't ascribe a level of consciousness to animals that you do to humans, and you pay for the animal (or you pick it up from the rescue centre, whatever), and you pay for it's food and it's insurance and it's vet's bills and so on and so forth, then to a degree it is property, because you choose it but it didn't choose you.My point here is that I do't ascribe that level of sentience to animals, that's not why I became vegan, I'm sick of people assuming that that's what I do believe and there seems to be a blanket view that if you don't eat animal products then you must believe thatanimals have human-level sentience. I'm asking at what point it becomes ok for me to say yeah, it's a pet.

On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 9:58 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Youve lost me now, sorry?, I`m not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Animals are not property.

 

 

 

Peter vv

 

 

Gayalondiel <gayalondiel@ livejournal. com>@gro ups.com

Saturday, 26 July, 2008 9:42:11 PMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

So hypothetically, you could comfortably use the term 'pet' if you were happy that animals didn't have an equivalent level of sentience with humans, and you did pay for an animal and keep it in your house and feed it out of your money, then there would be no logistical problem with calling it a 'pet', as it is in fact a creature that belongs to you?G

 

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 7:55 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey Tammy,

Pay attention, you seem to have missed a few posts?

Some people associate the term pet, with ownership, as in "my pet" - i own it, it belongs to me type of ting....

 

 

 

Peter vv

 

 

"tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com" <tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com>@gro ups.com

Friday, 25 July, 2008 10:13:03 AMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

In a message dated 7/20/2008 11:42:24 A.M. Central Standard Time, Dragonheart_ Kitty (AT) hotmail (DOT) com writes:

> I know a lot of us vegans do not approve of the term or idea of pets, prefering companions, but what do you think about animal therapy for depression treatment? Peter vv> >

 

HUH??? A pet is a companion and most are very good ones. I see nothing wrong with calling a pet a pet. What's the big deal?

 

Tammy

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]



Maybe the owning isn't to your liking, but what should we call them if not 'pets' - it is the term used for them that you started the discussion on !

 

Companion Animal Semetary, anyone?

 

Jo

 

 

-

Peter VV

Sunday, July 27, 2008 7:09 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

Point taken, so its an outdated concept. Maybe the same should be said of people "owning" pets.

 

 

Peter vv

 

Peter <metalscarab > Sent: Sunday, 27 July, 2008 6:54:24 PMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 Hi Peter

 

Possibly just a bit of history - in that women were considered for many centuries to be the property of men. When you were married, did your wife get "given away" by her father? Assuming she did (as most women still are), doesn't that sound very much like property?

 

BB

Peter

 

-

Peter VV

@gro ups.com

Sunday, July 27, 2008 6:50 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

You have completely lost me now, what has a wife ( a woman to whom a man is married ) have to do with a pet ( which is an animal KEPT in the home) which infers property.

Did I miss something?

Its about time I fired another bullet, this one has done its job.

 

Peter vv

 

Peter <metalscarab@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comSunday, 27 July, 2008 10:08:03 AMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 Hi Fraggle

 

Interesting point which leads to an interesting question... if you were married, would you call your partner your "wife"? After all, it's only recently that the term "wife" hasn't implied ownership, yet most of us still use it freely.

 

BB

Peter

 

 

-

fraggle

@gro ups.com

Saturday, July 26, 2008 11:14 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

hmmm...

no offense, but taking your statement "you pay for food, insurance" et al, wouldn't that also stand for any human children ya had, or your parents, or anyone you care about or...

you get the picture...

fer my point o view..i don't have to anthropomorphise. ..animals have their own "being"...they have awareness all their own...just cuz it may be different then lil ol humans doesn't make it any less valid....

to go back, sorry, the word pet conveys ownership and property...my kids are not slaves.....and, if wee go that root, heck, they own me much more then....

Gayalondiel Jul 26, 2008 2:24 PM @gro ups.com Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

 

Well, if you don't ascribe a level of consciousness to animals that you do to humans, and you pay for the animal (or you pick it up from the rescue centre, whatever), and you pay for it's food and it's insurance and it's vet's bills and so on and so forth, then to a degree it is property, because you choose it but it didn't choose you.My point here is that I do't ascribe that level of sentience to animals, that's not why I became vegan, I'm sick of people assuming that that's what I do believe and there seems to be a blanket view that if you don't eat animal products then you must believe thatanimals have human-level sentience. I'm asking at what point it becomes ok for me to say yeah, it's a pet.

On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 9:58 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Youve lost me now, sorry?, I`m not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Animals are not property.

 

 

 

Peter vv

 

 

Gayalondiel <gayalondiel@ livejournal. com>@gro ups.com

Saturday, 26 July, 2008 9:42:11 PMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

So hypothetically, you could comfortably use the term 'pet' if you were happy that animals didn't have an equivalent level of sentience with humans, and you did pay for an animal and keep it in your house and feed it out of your money, then there would be no logistical problem with calling it a 'pet', as it is in fact a creature that belongs to you?G

 

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 7:55 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey Tammy,

Pay attention, you seem to have missed a few posts?

Some people associate the term pet, with ownership, as in "my pet" - i own it, it belongs to me type of ting....

 

 

 

Peter vv

 

 

"tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com" <tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com>@gro ups.com

Friday, 25 July, 2008 10:13:03 AMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

In a message dated 7/20/2008 11:42:24 A.M. Central Standard Time, Dragonheart_ Kitty (AT) hotmail (DOT) com writes:

> I know a lot of us vegans do not approve of the term or idea of pets, prefering companions, but what do you think about animal therapy for depression treatment? Peter vv> >

 

HUH??? A pet is a companion and most are very good ones. I see nothing wrong with calling a pet a pet. What's the big deal?

 

Tammy

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

I for one have not thought of adopting a child, cant speak for anyone else.

As for me liking cats, I like all creatures, I once held up traffic for 20 minutes to help migrating frogs cross a busy road, and have helped stunned birds, even bees. I love all animals.Sometimes they deserve more respect and compassion than humans who treat them and their enviroment so badly.

 

 

 

Peter vv

 

jo <jo.heartwork Sent: Sunday, 27 July, 2008 9:39:54 PMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 No offense intended, just an observation. You have indeed been extremely kind to your cats - but that is part of the point. You love cats so you help them.

 

Has anyone though of adopting a child? -)

 

Jo

 

 

-

Peter VV

@gro ups.com

Sunday, July 27, 2008 6:59 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

Hey steady on Jo, some people could find the phrase " they rescue only the animals they like", offensive. I have rescued animals no-one else would have, ( currently have 3 ) and a lot of people do the same.The cats in my house are healthy little tikes who come and go as they please. I merely provide them with food and care and somewhere warm to sleep. I also feed their mother ( even though she has a home ) because she asks. I , and a lot of others also spent a lot of time, effort, and money trying to find people who would like to help strays and look after them.

Peter vv

 

jo <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comSaturday, 26 July, 2008 11:57:07 PMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 What's the difference between having a companion animal and owning a companion animal - how does it alter the situation in any way, whatever you call it? I have heard the argument that people have rescued animals - but all the same, they 'rescue' only the animals they like, so isn't this rescuing also done for some selfish reason - the fact that you want that animal. I'm not really sure what makes one different to the other.

 

Jo

 

 

-

fraggle

@gro ups.com

Saturday, July 26, 2008 11:16 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

sorry...everyone is different tammy....everyone views things differently. ..takes things differently, etc and so forth....certainly helps the world go round

sorry, fer me, i don't own my companions, kids, wotever you want to call them....

 

tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com Jul 26, 2008 2:18 PM @gro ups.com Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

 

 

In a message dated 7/26/2008 2:44:23 P.M. Central Standard Time, gayalondiel@ livejournal. com writes:

 

 

 

 

 

So hypothetically, you could comfortably use the term 'pet' if you were happy that animals didn't have an equivalent level of sentience with humans, and you did pay for an animal and keep it in your house and feed it out of your money, then there would be no logistical problem with calling it a 'pet', as it is in fact a creature that belongs to you?G

 

Okay...this is topic is getting really OUT THERE and I'm feeling like I'm in an animal rights fanatic group. Maybe I am? I just can't believe some people get offended because others call their pet a pet! I love my pets but I don't worship them. And yes, I do own them, not the other way around.

 

Tammy

 

 

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[Guest guest]

ah what is all this --- En date de : Dim 27.7.08, Peter VV <swpgh01 a écrit :

De: Peter VV <swpgh01Objet: Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?À: Date: Dimanche 27 Juillet 2008, 20h02

 

 

 

Well they certainly act like it!

 

 

Peter vv

 

jo <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comSaturday, 26 July, 2008 11:48:26 PMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 They are not kids either!

 

Jo

 

 

-

Peter VV

@gro ups.com

Saturday, July 26, 2008 9:46 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

thats cause they are not pets....

 

 

Peter vv

 

jo <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comSaturday, 26 July, 2008 7:01:23 PMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 Well - I've hear you and Fraggle call your pets 'furkids'!

 

Jo

 

 

-

Peter VV

@gro ups.com

Saturday, July 26, 2008 2:59 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

I agree, but talking about the common man and woman here, the type that doesnt know what etymology means, or use it in conversation. The majority use of the term pet refers to animals not humans. Wheras wife,husband & son & father are all descriptions of human family members not animals, wheras pet could be used by some as slang to describe a human, but not the other way around.

 

 

Peter vv

 

Peter <metalscarab@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comSaturday, 26 July, 2008 9:40:30 AMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 Hi Peter

 

You seem to have missed a few as well... it's been pointed out several times that that's not inherent in the etymology of the word, and that the same could be said of any relationship term: "wife", "husband", "son", "father"....

 

BB

Peter

 

-

Peter VV

@gro ups.com

Friday, July 25, 2008 7:55 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

Hey Tammy,

Pay attention, you seem to have missed a few posts?

Some people associate the term pet, with ownership, as in "my pet" - i own it, it belongs to me type of ting....

 

 

 

Peter vv

 

"tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com" <tammyco5 (AT) aol (DOT) com>@gro ups.comFriday, 25 July, 2008 10:13:03 AMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

In a message dated 7/20/2008 11:42:24 A.M. Central Standard Time, Dragonheart_ Kitty (AT) hotmail (DOT) com writes:

> I know a lot of us vegans do not approve of the term or idea of pets, prefering companions, but what do you think about animal therapy for depression treatment? Peter vv> >

 

HUH??? A pet is a companion and most are very good ones. I see nothing wrong with calling a pet a pet. What's the big deal?

 

Tammy

 

 

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Envoyé avec Mail.Une boite mail plus intelligente.

[Guest guest]

At 6:59 PM +0000 7/27/08, Faith wrote:

> What about all the animals that keep showing up at our house without

>asking if we want them? The little free-loaders take our food, and

>our attention, but they refuse to get jobs and pull their weight

>around here. I'd love to know how all the animals know how to pick

>the suckers out of a crowd. With all the doors around here, they

>always manage to chose ours to cry at. Odd.

 

Do you know for sure that they don't go to other doors and cry out?

Maybe yours is the only door that opens for them.

 

Or maybe they all " mark " your door in some way. I heard stories that,

during the Great Depression in the U.S., hoboes marked symbols on the

doors they visited to tell others whether this was a good place to

get a meal, a drink, a bed, or nothing.

[Guest guest]

www.slackaction.com/signroll.htm

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One evening as the sun went down and the jungle fire was burningDown the track came a hobo hiking and he said boys I'm not turningI'm headin for a land that's far away beside the crystal fountainsSo come with me we'll go and see the Big Rock Candy MountainsIn the Big Rock Candy Mountains there's a land that's fair and brightWhere the handouts grow on bushes and you sleep out every nightWhere the boxcars are all empty and the sun shines every dayOn the birds and the bees and the cigarette treesWhere the lemonade springs where the bluebird singsIn the Big Rock Candy MountainsIn the Big Rock Candy Mountains all the cops have wooden legsAnd the bulldogs all have rubber teeth and the hens lay soft boiled eggsThe farmer's trees are full of fruit and the barns are full of hayOh, I'm bound to go where there ain't no snowWhere the rain don't fall and the wind don't blowIn the Big Rock Candy MountainsIn the Big Rock Candy Mountains you never change your socksAnd the little streams of alcohol come a-trickling down the rocksThe brakemen have to tip their hats and the railroad bulls are blindThere's a lake of stew and of whiskey tooYou can paddle all around 'em in a big canoeIn the Big Rock Candy MountainsIn the Big Rock Candy Mountains the jails are made of tinAnd you can walk right out again as soon as you are inThere ain't no short handled shovels, no axes saws or picksI'm a goin to stay where you sleep all dayWhere they hung the jerk that invented workIn the Big Rock Candy MountainsI'll see you all this coming fall in the Big Rock Candy Mountains

 

yarrow Jul 27, 2008 8:33 PM Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

At 6:59 PM +0000 7/27/08, Faith wrote:> What about all the animals that keep showing up at our house without>asking if we want them? The little free-loaders take our food, and>our attention, but they refuse to get jobs and pull their weight>around here. I'd love to know how all the animals know how to pick>the suckers out of a crowd. With all the doors around here, they>always manage to chose ours to cry at. Odd.Do you know for sure that they don't go to other doors and cry out? Maybe yours is the only door that opens for them.Or maybe they all "mark" your door in some way. I heard stories that, during the Great Depression in the U.S., hoboes marked symbols on the doors they visited to tell others whether this was a good place to get a meal, a drink, a bed, or nothing.

 

 

 

 

With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.

[Guest guest]

Hi Jess,

Oh...I totally agree with you!!! I had 2 pet ducks for 11 yrs. and they are GREAT pets!!! People can be so cruel. Give Ducky a kiss for me.

 

Tammy

 

In a message dated 7/28/2008 2:51:44 P.M. Central Daylight Time, jessie3641 writes:

 

 

 

 

Wow, this is quite the thread. Personally, I refer to my ducky as my half-child, baby, or just pet. Since I have what is typically considered a farm animal for a pet, I encounter a lot of people who find this strange because they think of pets only as the cat and dog variety. I hear some very rude comments from people about eating my ducky - now, that's something to get upset about, when someone calls your pet dinner! As far as calling them pets, companions, children, furry/feathery things that run around the house - I say, call them whatever you want, just don't call my pet dinner. A pet means something different to every person and that needs to be respected.Jess , yarrow wrote:>> At

 

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[Guest guest]

Wow, this is quite the thread. Personally, I refer to my ducky as my

half-child, baby, or just pet. Since I have what is typically

considered a farm animal for a pet, I encounter a lot of people who

find this strange because they think of pets only as the cat and dog

variety. I hear some very rude comments from people about eating my

ducky - now, that's something to get upset about, when someone calls

your pet dinner! As far as calling them pets, companions, children,

furry/feathery things that run around the house - I say, call them

whatever you want, just don't call my pet dinner. A pet means something

different to every person and that needs to be respected.

 

Jess

 

 

 

 

 

 

, yarrow wrote:

>

> At 6:59 PM +0000 7/27/08, Faith wrote:

> > What about all the animals that keep showing up at our house

without

> >asking if we want them? The little free-loaders take our food, and

> >our attention, but they refuse to get jobs and pull their weight

> >around here. I'd love to know how all the animals know how to pick

> >the suckers out of a crowd. With all the doors around here, they

> >always manage to chose ours to cry at. Odd.

>

> Do you know for sure that they don't go to other doors and cry out?

> Maybe yours is the only door that opens for them.

>

> Or maybe they all " mark " your door in some way. I heard stories that,

> during the Great Depression in the U.S., hoboes marked symbols on the

> doors they visited to tell others whether this was a good place to

> get a meal, a drink, a bed, or nothing.

>