What do you think about pets as therapy?

[Guest guest]

I know a lot of us vegans do not approve of the term or idea of pets, prefering companions, but what do you think about animal therapy for depression treatment?Read this and the comments at the bottom..............

 

I have a history of depression, and have been advised to get a pet. Can you confirm that this would be beneficial? CAROL SMILLIE

Who advised you? Do they own a pet? And what kind of pet did they specify? If this advice has come from a counsellor or GP, it's worth listening to; if it's just wise words from a friend, then discuss it with your doctor or therapist first. You should also consider how your condition might affect whatever animal you choose.

I don't have personal experience of depression, but I understand that there can be days when sufferers can barely make it out of bed, let alone out of the house to walk a dog. If your depression is serious and debilitating, choose a pet that needs less attention; remember that animals never have off days.

If your depression is mild, you could think about either a dog or cat. Nurturing something else and considering its needs will help to shift your focus away from your illness. Stroking animals is also therapeutic, so make sure you choose a tactile animal that likes human beings.

Pet shop owners say that rats are greatly underrated. They are very clean and can be trained; something that's fun and a focus for the time you spend together. They also are diurnal, so you'll see them during the day.

But first you should think about a safety net, perhaps asking a family member if he or she will help out on bad days. Put that into place before you commit.

Another idea is to volunteer to work with animals. This would allow you to test the water first, and to meet people and gain the experience and skills you'll need to look after a pet.

The TV presenter Carol Smillie lives in Glasgow with her husband and three children. She supports the University of Glasgow's Faculty of Veterinary Medicine

EMMA MAGNUS

Pets have been shown to have a marked effect on human psychology and wellbeing. Boris Levinson, a psychologist in New York, was the first person to use animals alongside therapy. In 1962 he discovered that he made significant progress during the treatment of a disturbed child if he made sure that his dog was present during the sessions.

In 2003 research at the University of Pennsylvania showed that stroke victims had a greater chance of survival if they owned a pet, as their blood pressure was lower than non-owners.

Some mental health units also have on-site pets. A ward hamster looked after by staff and patients at Huntercombe Hospital, in Roehampton, South London, has been a great success. Pets are also being used more and more as part of a range of alternative therapies for depression. The companionship, physical contact, interaction, responsibility and focus that a pet brings to daily life helps to take your mind off your illness.

There is no evidence about which type of pet brings the most relief. It could be a fish, rat, cat, dog or bird; the important thing is that you become involved and engaged in its life.

A dog is the ideal companion, but only if you've owned one before. If not, you must take the time to find the right pet for you or you could end up getting a dog that is too bouncy or a cat that wants to be outside all the time.

Think, too, about the commitment of keeping an animal. For many people, having a dog is a real lifesaver, as it forces them to leave their homes and interact with others. But you may not be able to cope with this.

How about a cat? They can be very affectionate (particularly the oriental breeds such as Burmese and Siamese) and they are more independent than dogs, which puts less pressure on their owners. If you're interested, contact your local rescue centre to see if they have any older cats looking for homes. These will already be house-trained, saving you the stress of raising a kitten. Good luck!

Emma has a masters degree in applied animal behaviour and animal welfare. She is the author of How to Have a Relaxed Rabbit (Pet Behaviour Centre, £3.50)

Have you any top tips for perfect pets? Send them to body & soul

WHAT YOU NEED

CHECK IT

Society for Companion Animal Studies, dedicated to understanding how animals can improve quality of life; scas.org.uk

READ IT

In the Company of Animals: A Study of Human-Animal Relationships, James Serpeli (Cambridge Press, £16.99)

BUY IT

Make sure that your dog or cat stays shiny and glossy with a Grooming Glove, pets2home.co.uk , £3.15

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Have your say

 

 

 

 

I got my dog when I was at my "worst" in depression. My heart rate slows and my anxiety abates when I spend time with her. Happy to say I'm better now and still thrilled that I have my dog in my life. Yes J Doe, I do still take care of her and always will. She's part of my family.

 

Andie D., Phoenix, USA

 

I got a cat to assist in alleviating my depression - having something warm to come home to instead of an empty flat was wonderful, her company made a huge difference to my health, reducing recovery time, to be able to cope with day to day life once more. She was an incentive to get up in the morning

 

Allison, Portsmouth, England

 

I took medication for depression for years and when I got my dogs (2 small rescues) I started to feel better. The routine of getting up every day to take care of them helps me maintain a good physical schedule. I can't say enough about the enthusiastic greeting I get every morning.

 

JC, New York, US

 

I don't suffer from depression, but when I need a cheering up, my two cats are always there for me. I've been lucky to have very affectionate kitties and merely petting them when upset comforts and calms me. I support responsible pet ownership, but not everyone does. Good luck finding the right pet!

 

natalya, Chapel Hill, North Carolina, USA

 

Pets do help keep depression at bay but as much as we would like them to be, they are not immortal. One of the worst moments of my life was when I lost my dog. Only now, 8 years later, than I am able to think of getting another dog. Remember to treasure them but remember they are not there forever.

 

Nadia, Hamilton, Bermuda

 

When I had cats I kept depression at bay. They are so beautiful, intelligent, sensitive, affectionate and amusing. I've been catless for eight years, and have nothing to counteract the day to day sorrow that often overwhelms me. I plan to move where I can have them again.

 

thalassa, quimper, france

 

If you get a pet because you suffer from depression and you then recover from your depression, are you still going to look after and care for the creature?They aren't just for stroking. Pets have bodily functions.They urinate and defecate and you must clean up.They need to eat and drink regularly

 

J Doe, london,

 

Peter vv

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[Guest guest]

I think this concept is tapping into the wonderful healing feelings of

loving, tending to, and appreciating nature and animals. While having

a companion animal my or may not be beneficial or provide therapy it's

still a type of injustice in certain lights. Finding and adopting a

starving stray would be an example of something that I could see as

mutually beneficial and uplifting for both parties. But I would be

wary of the notion of using animals as treatment. That's not too far

a stretch from the mentality that allows us to justify experimenting

on them for the benefit of people.

 

Maggie

 

On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 4:08 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:

> I know a lot of us vegans do not approve of the term or idea of pets,

> prefering companions, but what do you think about animal therapy for

> depression treatment?Read this and the comments at the bottom..............

>

> I have a history of depression, and have been advised to get a pet. Can you

> confirm that this would be beneficial?

[Guest guest]

Normally, I just check in once in awhile.

 

However.

 

I adopted a cat from the Humane Society.

I was alone, suffering from major depression, and then, I contracted recurring

cancer.

 

Everyday, forcing myself to get up, to

love him, to take care of his needs, and to interact with him, was the one

thing keeping me from taking my own life. It was a win-win situation. I saved

his life, and he saved mine.

 

Near here, there is a nursing home. A

Golden Labrador is also in residence there. The Labrador

is making everyone’s life there happier and brighter in their final

days. As Labradors do, he got hip dysplasia,

and had to have major surgery on his hip. The physical therapist at the

nursing home provides him therapy right along with the elderly patients. The

elderly patients look outside themselves when they worry about the Lab’s

welfare. It’s a win-win situation.

 

It is NOT “experimenting

on them for the benefit of people.” <Snort>

 

Cyn

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Behalf Of Maggie Vining

Saturday, July 19, 2008 4:58

PM

 

Re: What do

you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

 

 

I think

this concept is tapping into the wonderful healing feelings of

loving, tending to, and appreciating nature and animals. While having

a companion animal my or may not be beneficial or provide therapy it's

still a type of injustice in certain lights. Finding and adopting a

starving stray would be an example of something that I could see as

mutually beneficial and uplifting for both parties. But I would be

wary of the notion of using animals as treatment. That's not too far

a stretch from the mentality that allows us to justify experimenting

on them for the benefit of people.

 

Maggie

 

On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 4:08 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote:

> I know a lot of us vegans do not approve of the term or idea of pets,

> prefering companions, but what do you think about animal therapy for

> depression treatment?Read this and the comments at the bottom..............

>

> I have a history of depression, and have been advised to get a pet. Can

you

> confirm that this would be beneficial?

[Guest guest]

, Peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:

>

> I know a lot of us vegans do not approve of the term or idea of

pets, prefering companions, but what do you think about animal

therapy for depression treatment? Peter vv

>

>

 

Hi Peter

 

I have never liked the idea of my beloved companions being

called " pets " , thats a slave term to me. I personalyl dont know

every.single.person with depression. Severe cases make you block out

everythign but that PAIN. And animals and even human family can make

it seem worst off and put more pressure and stress on you.

 

I however, will tell you a bit about how Bokka my Umbrella cockatoo,

helped me over come depression.

 

We bought a house, nice and big, land too, and well them ass holes

robbed us of our place - said we didnt make payments when we still

have the reciets (money order receipts saying we did! And so we lost

our house. Mom then got al her medication for all her problems taken

from her, which made her severely ill. Lived in a hotel for 9 or so

months.. a crackie hotel.. then a O.K apartments until they got new

management which made our lives not worth living. Well thats how I

felt. We still had many of our animals from our house.. we stuck

through thick and thin, together.

 

I still had depression, pretty bad. And needless to say, one morning

when I felt all was lost, I had this " feeling " to contact a " rescue " .

I need a larger bird companion in my life. We had smaller birds, but

they were of flock, handraised - yes, but of flock. I needed that

bonding and that needyness from an animal that NEEDED me like a child

would. I needed something to bring me back and attach me to this

world again. And well Bokka and I are here now, I am as happy as

ever, and look to him for happiness :-) I see a ray of warmth and

fire from him when I see him, and him and I are Best Friends

 

A bit about Bokka.. well he was a rescue/adoption. I honestly

consider " rescue " is getting a Being out of a bad condition, even

though I technically " adopted " him, I believe I rescued him because

he has been through SHIT for 12 years of his life.. and the person I

got him from rescued him from a hell of a place.. but honestly she

didnt know a darn thing about Cockatoos. He will be with me for my

entire life, and hopefully we'll die together

 

Since him I have rescued other parrots as well from horrible

conditions, and I hope to place many of them in Ideal Homes that they

can live the rest of their lives at.

 

Mercedez

[Guest guest]

I was referring to a general human arrogance where we tend to have the

mentality of believing that it's ok to use an animal to cure (insert

blank here). Your situation would be no different than having a child

who encouraged you to get up every day to tend to them, or a garden,

or a goal, or a spiritual belief. For me, it was dancing. Your

situation appears to be mutually beneficial. My point was only that I

disagree with the notion that animals should be used without regard to

their own happiness. Making an animal a commodity isn't ok weather

they are destined to live it up in a nursing home or be slaughtered

for food. It's the mentality that I am referring to, not so much the

end result.

 

 

Maggie

 

 

On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 8:55 PM, ckg <cynthiaandtheothers wrote:

 

>

> It is NOT " experimenting on them for the benefit of people. " <Snort>

>

>

>

> Cyn

>

[Guest guest]



Hi Peter

 

Hmmm - I'm feeling in a slightly controversial mood.... so, what do people think is wrong with the term "pet"? Doesn't it simply imply a form of relationship. Should we abandon words like "wife" in favour of "companion female", husband in favour of "companion male", son and daughter in favour of "companion child", etc, etc.

 

BB

Peter

 

-

Peter VV

Saturday, July 19, 2008 9:08 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

I know a lot of us vegans do not approve of the term or idea of pets, prefering companions, but what do you think about animal therapy for depression treatment?Read this and the comments at the bottom..............

 

I have a history of depression, and have been advised to get a pet. Can you confirm that this would be beneficial? CAROL SMILLIE

Who advised you? Do they own a pet? And what kind of pet did they specify? If this advice has come from a counsellor or GP, it's worth listening to; if it's just wise words from a friend, then discuss it with your doctor or therapist first. You should also consider how your condition might affect whatever animal you choose.

I don't have personal experience of depression, but I understand that there can be days when sufferers can barely make it out of bed, let alone out of the house to walk a dog. If your depression is serious and debilitating, choose a pet that needs less attention; remember that animals never have off days.

If your depression is mild, you could think about either a dog or cat. Nurturing something else and considering its needs will help to shift your focus away from your illness. Stroking animals is also therapeutic, so make sure you choose a tactile animal that likes human beings.

Pet shop owners say that rats are greatly underrated. They are very clean and can be trained; something that's fun and a focus for the time you spend together. They also are diurnal, so you'll see them during the day.

But first you should think about a safety net, perhaps asking a family member if he or she will help out on bad days. Put that into place before you commit.

Another idea is to volunteer to work with animals. This would allow you to test the water first, and to meet people and gain the experience and skills you'll need to look after a pet.

The TV presenter Carol Smillie lives in Glasgow with her husband and three children. She supports the University of Glasgow's Faculty of Veterinary Medicine

EMMA MAGNUS

Pets have been shown to have a marked effect on human psychology and wellbeing. Boris Levinson, a psychologist in New York, was the first person to use animals alongside therapy. In 1962 he discovered that he made significant progress during the treatment of a disturbed child if he made sure that his dog was present during the sessions.

In 2003 research at the University of Pennsylvania showed that stroke victims had a greater chance of survival if they owned a pet, as their blood pressure was lower than non-owners.

Some mental health units also have on-site pets. A ward hamster looked after by staff and patients at Huntercombe Hospital, in Roehampton, South London, has been a great success. Pets are also being used more and more as part of a range of alternative therapies for depression. The companionship, physical contact, interaction, responsibility and focus that a pet brings to daily life helps to take your mind off your illness.

There is no evidence about which type of pet brings the most relief. It could be a fish, rat, cat, dog or bird; the important thing is that you become involved and engaged in its life.

A dog is the ideal companion, but only if you've owned one before. If not, you must take the time to find the right pet for you or you could end up getting a dog that is too bouncy or a cat that wants to be outside all the time.

Think, too, about the commitment of keeping an animal. For many people, having a dog is a real lifesaver, as it forces them to leave their homes and interact with others. But you may not be able to cope with this.

How about a cat? They can be very affectionate (particularly the oriental breeds such as Burmese and Siamese) and they are more independent than dogs, which puts less pressure on their owners. If you're interested, contact your local rescue centre to see if they have any older cats looking for homes. These will already be house-trained, saving you the stress of raising a kitten. Good luck!

Emma has a masters degree in applied animal behaviour and animal welfare. She is the author of How to Have a Relaxed Rabbit (Pet Behaviour Centre, £3.50)

Have you any top tips for perfect pets? Send them to body & soul

WHAT YOU NEED

CHECK IT

Society for Companion Animal Studies, dedicated to understanding how animals can improve quality of life; scas.org.uk

READ IT

In the Company of Animals: A Study of Human-Animal Relationships, James Serpeli (Cambridge Press, £16.99)

BUY IT

Make sure that your dog or cat stays shiny and glossy with a Grooming Glove, pets2home.co.uk , £3.15

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Have your say

 

 

 

 

I got my dog when I was at my "worst" in depression. My heart rate slows and my anxiety abates when I spend time with her. Happy to say I'm better now and still thrilled that I have my dog in my life. Yes J Doe, I do still take care of her and always will. She's part of my family.

 

Andie D., Phoenix, USA

 

I got a cat to assist in alleviating my depression - having something warm to come home to instead of an empty flat was wonderful, her company made a huge difference to my health, reducing recovery time, to be able to cope with day to day life once more. She was an incentive to get up in the morning

 

Allison, Portsmouth, England

 

I took medication for depression for years and when I got my dogs (2 small rescues) I started to feel better. The routine of getting up every day to take care of them helps me maintain a good physical schedule. I can't say enough about the enthusiastic greeting I get every morning.

 

JC, New York, US

 

I don't suffer from depression, but when I need a cheering up, my two cats are always there for me. I've been lucky to have very affectionate kitties and merely petting them when upset comforts and calms me. I support responsible pet ownership, but not everyone does. Good luck finding the right pet!

 

natalya, Chapel Hill, North Carolina, USA

 

Pets do help keep depression at bay but as much as we would like them to be, they are not immortal. One of the worst moments of my life was when I lost my dog. Only now, 8 years later, than I am able to think of getting another dog. Remember to treasure them but remember they are not there forever.

 

Nadia, Hamilton, Bermuda

 

When I had cats I kept depression at bay. They are so beautiful, intelligent, sensitive, affectionate and amusing. I've been catless for eight years, and have nothing to counteract the day to day sorrow that often overwhelms me. I plan to move where I can have them again.

 

thalassa, quimper, france

 

If you get a pet because you suffer from depression and you then recover from your depression, are you still going to look after and care for the creature?They aren't just for stroking. Pets have bodily functions.They urinate and defecate and you must clean up.They need to eat and drink regularly

 

J Doe, london,

 

Peter vv

 

Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at

[Guest guest]

Hi Mercedez> I have never liked the idea of my beloved companions being> called " pets " , thats a slave term to me.Interesting perspective - how so? (As in, why do you perceive it as a synonym for " slave " ?)

I ask, for two reasons: firstly, I see it as simply a term defining a relationship (much like wife, husband, mother, father, son daughter, etc.), and secondly because the etymological roots would appear to be entirely the opposite - having roots which imply " small " (although not in a disparaging sense, rather as a term of endearment), or " favourite " ...

BBPeter

[Guest guest]

I have always thought that the term pet has conitations of ownership? maybe its just me then?

 

 

 

Peter vv

 

Peter <metalscarab Sent: Sunday, 20 July, 2008 8:56:18 AMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 Hi Peter

 

Hmmm - I'm feeling in a slightly controversial mood.... so, what do people think is wrong with the term "pet"? Doesn't it simply imply a form of relationship. Should we abandon words like "wife" in favour of "companion female", husband in favour of "companion male", son and daughter in favour of "companion child", etc, etc.

 

BB

Peter

 

-

Peter VV

@gro ups.com

Saturday, July 19, 2008 9:08 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

I know a lot of us vegans do not approve of the term or idea of pets, prefering companions, but what do you think about animal therapy for depression treatment?Read this and the comments at the bottom...... ........

 

I have a history of depression, and have been advised to get a pet. Can you confirm that this would be beneficial? CAROL SMILLIE

Who advised you? Do they own a pet? And what kind of pet did they specify? If this advice has come from a counsellor or GP, it's worth listening to; if it's just wise words from a friend, then discuss it with your doctor or therapist first. You should also consider how your condition might affect whatever animal you choose.

I don't have personal experience of depression, but I understand that there can be days when sufferers can barely make it out of bed, let alone out of the house to walk a dog. If your depression is serious and debilitating, choose a pet that needs less attention; remember that animals never have off days.

If your depression is mild, you could think about either a dog or cat. Nurturing something else and considering its needs will help to shift your focus away from your illness. Stroking animals is also therapeutic, so make sure you choose a tactile animal that likes human beings.

Pet shop owners say that rats are greatly underrated. They are very clean and can be trained; something that's fun and a focus for the time you spend together. They also are diurnal, so you'll see them during the day.

But first you should think about a safety net, perhaps asking a family member if he or she will help out on bad days. Put that into place before you commit.

Another idea is to volunteer to work with animals. This would allow you to test the water first, and to meet people and gain the experience and skills you'll need to look after a pet.

The TV presenter Carol Smillie lives in Glasgow with her husband and three children. She supports the University of Glasgow's Faculty of Veterinary Medicine

EMMA MAGNUS

Pets have been shown to have a marked effect on human psychology and wellbeing. Boris Levinson, a psychologist in New York, was the first person to use animals alongside therapy. In 1962 he discovered that he made significant progress during the treatment of a disturbed child if he made sure that his dog was present during the sessions.

In 2003 research at the University of Pennsylvania showed that stroke victims had a greater chance of survival if they owned a pet, as their blood pressure was lower than non-owners.

Some mental health units also have on-site pets. A ward hamster looked after by staff and patients at Huntercombe Hospital, in Roehampton, South London, has been a great success. Pets are also being used more and more as part of a range of alternative therapies for depression. The companionship, physical contact, interaction, responsibility and focus that a pet brings to daily life helps to take your mind off your illness.

There is no evidence about which type of pet brings the most relief. It could be a fish, rat, cat, dog or bird; the important thing is that you become involved and engaged in its life.

A dog is the ideal companion, but only if you've owned one before. If not, you must take the time to find the right pet for you or you could end up getting a dog that is too bouncy or a cat that wants to be outside all the time.

Think, too, about the commitment of keeping an animal. For many people, having a dog is a real lifesaver, as it forces them to leave their homes and interact with others. But you may not be able to cope with this.

How about a cat? They can be very affectionate (particularly the oriental breeds such as Burmese and Siamese) and they are more independent than dogs, which puts less pressure on their owners. If you're interested, contact your local rescue centre to see if they have any older cats looking for homes. These will already be house-trained, saving you the stress of raising a kitten. Good luck!

Emma has a masters degree in applied animal behaviour and animal welfare. She is the author of How to Have a Relaxed Rabbit (Pet Behaviour Centre, £3.50)

Have you any top tips for perfect pets? Send them to body & soul (AT) thetimes (DOT) co.uk

WHAT YOU NEED

CHECK IT

Society for Companion Animal Studies, dedicated to understanding how animals can improve quality of life; scas.org.uk

READ IT

In the Company of Animals: A Study of Human-Animal Relationships, James Serpeli (Cambridge Press, £16.99)

BUY IT

Make sure that your dog or cat stays shiny and glossy with a Grooming Glove, pets2home.co. uk , £3.15

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Have your say

 

 

 

I got my dog when I was at my "worst" in depression. My heart rate slows and my anxiety abates when I spend time with her. Happy to say I'm better now and still thrilled that I have my dog in my life. Yes J Doe, I do still take care of her and always will. She's part of my family.

 

Andie D., Phoenix, USA

 

I got a cat to assist in alleviating my depression - having something warm to come home to instead of an empty flat was wonderful, her company made a huge difference to my health, reducing recovery time, to be able to cope with day to day life once more. She was an incentive to get up in the morning

 

Allison, Portsmouth, England

 

I took medication for depression for years and when I got my dogs (2 small rescues) I started to feel better. The routine of getting up every day to take care of them helps me maintain a good physical schedule. I can't say enough about the enthusiastic greeting I get every morning.

 

JC, New York, US

 

I don't suffer from depression, but when I need a cheering up, my two cats are always there for me. I've been lucky to have very affectionate kitties and merely petting them when upset comforts and calms me. I support responsible pet ownership, but not everyone does. Good luck finding the right pet!

 

natalya, Chapel Hill, North Carolina, USA

 

Pets do help keep depression at bay but as much as we would like them to be, they are not immortal. One of the worst moments of my life was when I lost my dog. Only now, 8 years later, than I am able to think of getting another dog. Remember to treasure them but remember they are not there forever.

 

Nadia, Hamilton, Bermuda

 

When I had cats I kept depression at bay. They are so beautiful, intelligent, sensitive, affectionate and amusing. I've been catless for eight years, and have nothing to counteract the day to day sorrow that often overwhelms me. I plan to move where I can have them again.

 

thalassa, quimper, france

 

If you get a pet because you suffer from depression and you then recover from your depression, are you still going to look after and care for the creature?They aren't just for stroking. Pets have bodily functions.They urinate and defecate and you must clean up.They need to eat and drink regularly

 

J Doe, london,

 

Peter vv

 

Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at

Not happy with your email address?

Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at

[Guest guest]

Funny, I was just having this discussion with a vegan online friend.

He'd been angered by an article about a woman in Missouri who uses a

monkey as a companion to help cope with her near debilitating anxiety.

The monkey was rescued, and seems content. I don't really see

anything wrong with that situation. He detests the idea of keeping

animals in our homes at all.

 

I have two thoughts about this:

 

In my ideal world, people would phase out breeding any and all

domestic animals as most humans do not make good parents (to fur

children or even their own children) and can often barely take care of

themselves. The only animals we would have in our care are those that

were injured or orphaned and were being rehabilitated to be released

back into the wild. We could also befriend wild animals if they were

interested or just enjoy them from afar as they went about the

business of being wild.

 

In the world we live in, there are many animals that would not be here

on this planet were it not for the selfish or ill-informed acts of

people letting or forcing them to breed. These animals are not wild

and cannot simply be released. During the time that we are (ideally)

moving away from this usage of animals for food/clothing/pets, there

will be animals that fall through the cracks and need homes. For

them, the options are to provide them with homes or to put them down.

Provided that people are providing a good home that the animal feels

content in, I don't see anything inherently wrong with humans forming

mutually beneficial relationships with animals. I am opposed to

buying animals that were specifically bred to be sold, as that just

supports the industry that I'd like to see disappear over time.

 

We adopted three cats on this island. We were able to keep the

siblings together and they help us daily with island-induced

depression. I feel sad that we cannot simply let them run about

outside as they would like, but our house is much larger than the

small, metal box they were living in for three months before we

adopted them.

 

I also think that many " working " animals are happier with their lives

than those that are only " pets. " When we see dogs at the airport or

out on their shifts with police men, they look so incredibly happy.

They strut around, proud, all business. They have the constant smile,

they are mentally challenged. Many of them are adopted from shelters

these days.

 

I'm rambling. That's what happens when it rains all day long here.

Have a lovely day.

~Faith

[Guest guest]

At 10:00 PM +0000 7/20/08, Faith wrote:

>I also think that many " working " animals are happier with their lives

>than those that are only " pets. " When we see dogs at the airport or

>out on their shifts with police men, they look so incredibly happy.

>They strut around, proud, all business. They have the constant smile,

>they are mentally challenged. Many of them are adopted from shelters

>these days.

 

I think the reason working animals are always smiling is the same

reason people are happy: they feel valued. Working animals,

especially, tend to be praised often and given incentives (treats).

They have skills and delight in using them. I think if people felt

truly valued and recognized, and could spend their days using their

favorite skills and got treats for being who they are, they would be

smiling all the time as well. And (bringing this full circle) dogs

are the quintessential " I love you because you're you " beings. Most

dogs I've known act out the equivalent of " yay! you're home! " whether

the people have been away for 5 minutes or 5 days. Some dogs are good

as therapy dogs because their mindset seems to be " yay! Another

person to pat me and give me treats! " It's the same reason that the

best remedy for depression is often helping someone else -- finding a

way to be useful and feel valued.

[Guest guest]

I think if a pet needs therapy then it would help. Hopefully the

therapist would also help the person who has the pet to be able to

make the pet happy.

 

Jo

, Peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:

>

> I know a lot of us vegans do not approve of the term or idea of

pets, prefering companions, but what do you think about animal

therapy for depression treatment?Read this and the comments at the

bottom..............

> I have a history of depression, and have been advised to get a

pet. Can you confirm that this would be beneficial?

> CAROL SMILLIE

> Who advised you? Do they own a pet? And what kind of pet did they

specify? If this advice has come from a counsellor or GP, it's worth

listening to; if it's just wise words from a friend, then discuss it

with your doctor or therapist first. You should also consider how

your condition might affect whatever animal you choose.

> I don't have personal experience of depression, but I understand

that there can be days when sufferers can barely make it out of bed,

let alone out of the house to walk a dog. If your depression is

serious and debilitating, choose a pet that needs less attention;

remember that animals never have off days.

> If your depression is mild, you could think about either a dog or

cat. Nurturing something else and considering its needs will help to

shift your focus away from your illness. Stroking animals is also

therapeutic, so make sure you choose a tactile animal that likes

human beings.

> Pet shop owners say that rats are greatly underrated. They are very

clean and can be trained; something that's fun and a focus for the

time you spend together. They also are diurnal, so you'll see them

during the day.

> But first you should think about a safety net, perhaps asking a

family member if he or she will help out on bad days. Put that into

place before you commit.

> Another idea is to volunteer to work with animals. This would allow

you to test the water first, and to meet people and gain the

experience and skills you'll need to look after a pet.

> The TV presenter Carol Smillie lives in Glasgow with her husband

and three children. She supports the University of Glasgow's Faculty

of Veterinary Medicine

> EMMA MAGNUS

> Pets have been shown to have a marked effect on human psychology

and wellbeing. Boris Levinson, a psychologist in New York, was the

first person to use animals alongside therapy. In 1962 he discovered

that he made significant progress during the treatment of a disturbed

child if he made sure that his dog was present during the sessions.

> In 2003 research at the University of Pennsylvania showed that

stroke victims had a greater chance of survival if they owned a pet,

as their blood pressure was lower than non-owners.

> Some mental health units also have on-site pets. A ward hamster

looked after by staff and patients at Huntercombe Hospital, in

Roehampton, South London, has been a great success. Pets are also

being used more and more as part of a range of alternative therapies

for depression. The companionship, physical contact, interaction,

responsibility and focus that a pet brings to daily life helps to

take your mind off your illness.

> There is no evidence about which type of pet brings the most

relief. It could be a fish, rat, cat, dog or bird; the important

thing is that you become involved and engaged in its life.

> A dog is the ideal companion, but only if you've owned one before.

If not, you must take the time to find the right pet for you or you

could end up getting a dog that is too bouncy or a cat that wants to

be outside all the time.

> Think, too, about the commitment of keeping an animal. For many

people, having a dog is a real lifesaver, as it forces them to leave

their homes and interact with others. But you may not be able to cope

with this.

> How about a cat? They can be very affectionate (particularly the

oriental breeds such as Burmese and Siamese) and they are more

independent than dogs, which puts less pressure on their owners. If

you're interested, contact your local rescue centre to see if they

have any older cats looking for homes. These will already be house-

trained, saving you the stress of raising a kitten. Good luck!

> Emma has a masters degree in applied animal behaviour and animal

welfare. She is the author of How to Have a Relaxed Rabbit (Pet

Behaviour Centre, £3.50)

> Have you any top tips for perfect pets? Send them to body & soul

> WHAT YOU NEED

> CHECK IT

> Society for Companion Animal Studies, dedicated to understanding

how animals can improve quality of life; scas.org.uk

> READ IT

> In the Company of Animals: A Study of Human-Animal Relationships,

James Serpeli (Cambridge Press, £16.99)

> BUY IT

> Make sure that your dog or cat stays shiny and glossy with a

Grooming Glove, pets2home.co.uk , £3.15

> * Have your say

> I got my dog when I was at my " worst " in depression. My heart rate

slows and my anxiety abates when I spend time with her. Happy to say

I'm better now and still thrilled that I have my dog in my life. Yes

J Doe, I do still take care of her and always will. She's part of my

family.

> Andie D., Phoenix, USA

> I got a cat to assist in alleviating my depression - having

something warm to come home to instead of an empty flat was

wonderful, her company made a huge difference to my health, reducing

recovery time, to be able to cope with day to day life once more. She

was an incentive to get up in the morning

> Allison, Portsmouth, England

> I took medication for depression for years and when I got my dogs

(2 small rescues) I started to feel better. The routine of getting up

every day to take care of them helps me maintain a good physical

schedule. I can't say enough about the enthusiastic greeting I get

every morning.

> JC, New York, US

> I don't suffer from depression, but when I need a cheering up, my

two cats are always there for me. I've been lucky to have very

affectionate kitties and merely petting them when upset comforts and

calms me. I support responsible pet ownership, but not everyone does.

Good luck finding the right pet!

> natalya, Chapel Hill, North Carolina, USA

> Pets do help keep depression at bay but as much as we would like

them to be, they are not immortal. One of the worst moments of my

life was when I lost my dog. Only now, 8 years later, than I am able

to think of getting another dog. Remember to treasure them but

remember they are not there forever.

> Nadia, Hamilton, Bermuda

> When I had cats I kept depression at bay. They are so beautiful,

intelligent, sensitive, affectionate and amusing. I've been catless

for eight years, and have nothing to counteract the day to day sorrow

that often overwhelms me. I plan to move where I can have them again.

> thalassa, quimper, france

> If you get a pet because you suffer from depression and you then

recover from your depression, are you still going to look after and

care for the creature?They aren't just for stroking.

> Pets have bodily functions.They urinate and defecate and you must

clean up.They need to eat and drink regularly

> J Doe, london, 

>  

> Peter vv

>

>

> ________

> Not happy with your email address?.

> Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses

available now at http://uk.docs./ymail/new.html

>

[Guest guest]

Obviously I didn't read the article properly! If using pets as

therapy for other people was the question - I'm not really in favour,

unless the animal seems to enjoy it.

 

I have seen dogs on the television who are hospital visitors, and

they love the attention they get from the patients - so maybe it is

not such a bad idea.

 

I have a blind sister-in-law who has guide dogs - does the average

vegan consider this to be wrong? The dogs do work hard, but they are

usually very much loved too.

 

Jo

 

, " Maggie Vining "

<Maggie.Vining wrote:

>

> I think this concept is tapping into the wonderful healing feelings

of

> loving, tending to, and appreciating nature and animals. While

having

> a companion animal my or may not be beneficial or provide therapy

it's

> still a type of injustice in certain lights. Finding and adopting a

> starving stray would be an example of something that I could see as

> mutually beneficial and uplifting for both parties. But I would be

> wary of the notion of using animals as treatment. That's not too

far

> a stretch from the mentality that allows us to justify experimenting

> on them for the benefit of people.

>

> Maggie

>

> On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 4:08 PM, Peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:

> > I know a lot of us vegans do not approve of the term or idea of

pets,

> > prefering companions, but what do you think about animal therapy

for

> > depression treatment?Read this and the comments at the

bottom..............

> >

> > I have a history of depression, and have been advised to get a

pet. Can you

> > confirm that this would be beneficial?

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Peter

 

I think 'pet' is a lovely name. Lots of people call their husbands

and wives 'pet' as a term of endearment.

 

As you say - it is a term for a relationship.

 

BB

Jo

 

, " Peter " <metalscarab wrote:

>

> Hi Peter

>

> Hmmm - I'm feeling in a slightly controversial mood.... so, what do

people think is wrong with the term " pet " ? Doesn't it simply imply a

form of relationship. Should we abandon words like " wife " in favour

of " companion female " , husband in favour of " companion male " , son and

daughter in favour of " companion child " , etc, etc.

>

> BB

> Peter

> -

> Peter VV

>

> Saturday, July 19, 2008 9:08 PM

> Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

>

>

> I know a lot of us vegans do not approve of the term or idea of

pets, prefering companions, but what do you think about animal

therapy for depression treatment?Read this and the comments at the

bottom..............

>

> I have a history of depression, and have been advised to get a

pet. Can you confirm that this would be beneficial?

> CAROL SMILLIE

>

> Who advised you? Do they own a pet? And what kind of pet did they

specify? If this advice has come from a counsellor or GP, it's worth

listening to; if it's just wise words from a friend, then discuss it

with your doctor or therapist first. You should also consider how

your condition might affect whatever animal you choose.

>

> I don't have personal experience of depression, but I understand

that there can be days when sufferers can barely make it out of bed,

let alone out of the house to walk a dog. If your depression is

serious and debilitating, choose a pet that needs less attention;

remember that animals never have off days.

>

> If your depression is mild, you could think about either a dog or

cat. Nurturing something else and considering its needs will help to

shift your focus away from your illness. Stroking animals is also

therapeutic, so make sure you choose a tactile animal that likes

human beings.

>

> Pet shop owners say that rats are greatly underrated. They are

very clean and can be trained; something that's fun and a focus for

the time you spend together. They also are diurnal, so you'll see

them during the day.

>

> But first you should think about a safety net, perhaps asking a

family member if he or she will help out on bad days. Put that into

place before you commit.

>

> Another idea is to volunteer to work with animals. This would

allow you to test the water first, and to meet people and gain the

experience and skills you'll need to look after a pet.

>

> The TV presenter Carol Smillie lives in Glasgow with her husband

and three children. She supports the University of Glasgow's Faculty

of Veterinary Medicine

>

> EMMA MAGNUS

>

> Pets have been shown to have a marked effect on human psychology

and wellbeing. Boris Levinson, a psychologist in New York, was the

first person to use animals alongside therapy. In 1962 he discovered

that he made significant progress during the treatment of a disturbed

child if he made sure that his dog was present during the sessions.

>

> In 2003 research at the University of Pennsylvania showed that

stroke victims had a greater chance of survival if they owned a pet,

as their blood pressure was lower than non-owners.

>

> Some mental health units also have on-site pets. A ward hamster

looked after by staff and patients at Huntercombe Hospital, in

Roehampton, South London, has been a great success. Pets are also

being used more and more as part of a range of alternative therapies

for depression. The companionship, physical contact, interaction,

responsibility and focus that a pet brings to daily life helps to

take your mind off your illness.

>

> There is no evidence about which type of pet brings the most

relief. It could be a fish, rat, cat, dog or bird; the important

thing is that you become involved and engaged in its life.

>

> A dog is the ideal companion, but only if you've owned one

before. If not, you must take the time to find the right pet for you

or you could end up getting a dog that is too bouncy or a cat that

wants to be outside all the time.

>

> Think, too, about the commitment of keeping an animal. For many

people, having a dog is a real lifesaver, as it forces them to leave

their homes and interact with others. But you may not be able to cope

with this.

>

> How about a cat? They can be very affectionate (particularly the

oriental breeds such as Burmese and Siamese) and they are more

independent than dogs, which puts less pressure on their owners. If

you're interested, contact your local rescue centre to see if they

have any older cats looking for homes. These will already be house-

trained, saving you the stress of raising a kitten. Good luck!

>

> Emma has a masters degree in applied animal behaviour and animal

welfare. She is the author of How to Have a Relaxed Rabbit (Pet

Behaviour Centre, £3.50)

>

> Have you any top tips for perfect pets? Send them to

body & soul

>

> WHAT YOU NEED

>

> CHECK IT

>

> Society for Companion Animal Studies, dedicated to understanding

how animals can improve quality of life; scas.org.uk

>

> READ IT

>

> In the Company of Animals: A Study of Human-Animal Relationships,

James Serpeli (Cambridge Press, £16.99)

>

> BUY IT

>

> Make sure that your dog or cat stays shiny and glossy with a

Grooming Glove, pets2home.co.uk , £3.15

>

> a.. Have your say

> I got my dog when I was at my " worst " in depression. My heart

rate slows and my anxiety abates when I spend time with her. Happy to

say I'm better now and still thrilled that I have my dog in my life.

Yes J Doe, I do still take care of her and always will. She's part of

my family.

>

> Andie D., Phoenix, USA

>

> I got a cat to assist in alleviating my depression - having

something warm to come home to instead of an empty flat was

wonderful, her company made a huge difference to my health, reducing

recovery time, to be able to cope with day to day life once more. She

was an incentive to get up in the morning

>

> Allison, Portsmouth, England

>

> I took medication for depression for years and when I got my dogs

(2 small rescues) I started to feel better. The routine of getting up

every day to take care of them helps me maintain a good physical

schedule. I can't say enough about the enthusiastic greeting I get

every morning.

>

> JC, New York, US

>

> I don't suffer from depression, but when I need a cheering up, my

two cats are always there for me. I've been lucky to have very

affectionate kitties and merely petting them when upset comforts and

calms me. I support responsible pet ownership, but not everyone does.

Good luck finding the right pet!

>

> natalya, Chapel Hill, North Carolina, USA

>

> Pets do help keep depression at bay but as much as we would like

them to be, they are not immortal. One of the worst moments of my

life was when I lost my dog. Only now, 8 years later, than I am able

to think of getting another dog. Remember to treasure them but

remember they are not there forever.

>

> Nadia, Hamilton, Bermuda

>

> When I had cats I kept depression at bay. They are so beautiful,

intelligent, sensitive, affectionate and amusing. I've been catless

for eight years, and have nothing to counteract the day to day sorrow

that often overwhelms me. I plan to move where I can have them again.

>

> thalassa, quimper, france

>

> If you get a pet because you suffer from depression and you then

recover from your depression, are you still going to look after and

care for the creature?They aren't just for stroking.

> Pets have bodily functions.They urinate and defecate and you must

clean up.They need to eat and drink regularly

>

> J Doe, london,

>

>

>

> Peter vv

>

>

> --

----------

> Not happy with your email address?

> Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses

available now at

>

[Guest guest]

I think pets make fantastic therapy especially ones that are in sanctuaries.

Ive just started walking dogs for a local animal sanctuary Woodside and can definetly recommend it for therapuetic purposes.

Anyone in need of therapy try walking dogs for your local sanctuarys!!

Steve --- On Mon, 21/7/08, heartwerk <jo.heartwork wrote:

heartwerk <jo.heartworkRe: What do you think about pets as therapy? Date: Monday, 21 July, 2008, 8:06 AM

 

 

Hi PeterI think 'pet' is a lovely name. Lots of people call their husbands and wives 'pet' as a term of endearment.As you say - it is a term for a relationship.BBJo@gro ups.com, "Peter" <metalscarab@ ...> wrote:>> Hi Peter> > Hmmm - I'm feeling in a slightly controversial mood.... so, what do people think is wrong with the term "pet"? Doesn't it simply imply a form of relationship. Should we abandon words like "wife" in favour of "companion female", husband in favour of "companion male", son and daughter in favour of "companion child", etc, etc.> > BB> Peter> - > Peter VV > @gro ups.com >

Saturday, July 19, 2008 9:08 PM> Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?> > > I know a lot of us vegans do not approve of the term or idea of pets, prefering companions, but what do you think about animal therapy for depression treatment?Read this and the comments at the bottom...... ........> > I have a history of depression, and have been advised to get a pet. Can you confirm that this would be beneficial? > CAROL SMILLIE> > Who advised you? Do they own a pet? And what kind of pet did they specify? If this advice has come from a counsellor or GP, it's worth listening to; if it's just wise words from a friend, then discuss it with your doctor or therapist first. You should also consider how your condition might affect whatever animal you choose. > > I don't have personal experience of depression, but I understand

that there can be days when sufferers can barely make it out of bed, let alone out of the house to walk a dog. If your depression is serious and debilitating, choose a pet that needs less attention; remember that animals never have off days. > > If your depression is mild, you could think about either a dog or cat. Nurturing something else and considering its needs will help to shift your focus away from your illness. Stroking animals is also therapeutic, so make sure you choose a tactile animal that likes human beings. > > Pet shop owners say that rats are greatly underrated. They are very clean and can be trained; something that's fun and a focus for the time you spend together. They also are diurnal, so you'll see them during the day. > > But first you should think about a safety net, perhaps asking a family member if he or she will help out on bad days. Put

that into place before you commit. > > Another idea is to volunteer to work with animals. This would allow you to test the water first, and to meet people and gain the experience and skills you'll need to look after a pet. > > The TV presenter Carol Smillie lives in Glasgow with her husband and three children. She supports the University of Glasgow's Faculty of Veterinary Medicine > > EMMA MAGNUS> > Pets have been shown to have a marked effect on human psychology and wellbeing. Boris Levinson, a psychologist in New York, was the first person to use animals alongside therapy. In 1962 he discovered that he made significant progress during the treatment of a disturbed child if he made sure that his dog was present during the sessions. > > In 2003 research at the University of Pennsylvania showed that stroke victims had a greater chance of survival

if they owned a pet, as their blood pressure was lower than non-owners. > > Some mental health units also have on-site pets. A ward hamster looked after by staff and patients at Huntercombe Hospital, in Roehampton, South London, has been a great success. Pets are also being used more and more as part of a range of alternative therapies for depression. The companionship, physical contact, interaction, responsibility and focus that a pet brings to daily life helps to take your mind off your illness. > > There is no evidence about which type of pet brings the most relief. It could be a fish, rat, cat, dog or bird; the important thing is that you become involved and engaged in its life. > > A dog is the ideal companion, but only if you've owned one before. If not, you must take the time to find the right pet for you or you could end up getting a dog that is too bouncy or a

cat that wants to be outside all the time. > > Think, too, about the commitment of keeping an animal. For many people, having a dog is a real lifesaver, as it forces them to leave their homes and interact with others. But you may not be able to cope with this. > > How about a cat? They can be very affectionate (particularly the oriental breeds such as Burmese and Siamese) and they are more independent than dogs, which puts less pressure on their owners. If you're interested, contact your local rescue centre to see if they have any older cats looking for homes. These will already be house-trained, saving you the stress of raising a kitten. Good luck! > > Emma has a masters degree in applied animal behaviour and animal welfare. She is the author of How to Have a Relaxed Rabbit (Pet Behaviour Centre, £3.50) > > Have you any top tips for perfect pets? Send

them to body & soul@.. . > > WHAT YOU NEED> > CHECK IT> > Society for Companion Animal Studies, dedicated to understanding how animals can improve quality of life; scas.org.uk> > READ IT > > In the Company of Animals: A Study of Human-Animal Relationships, James Serpeli (Cambridge Press, £16.99) > > BUY IT> > Make sure that your dog or cat stays shiny and glossy with a Grooming Glove, pets2home.co. uk , £3.15 > > a.. Have your say> I got my dog when I was at my "worst" in depression. My heart rate slows and my anxiety abates when I spend time with her. Happy to say I'm better now and still thrilled that I have my dog in my life. Yes J Doe, I do still take care of her and always will. She's part of my family.> > Andie D., Phoenix, USA> > I got a cat to assist in

alleviating my depression - having something warm to come home to instead of an empty flat was wonderful, her company made a huge difference to my health, reducing recovery time, to be able to cope with day to day life once more. She was an incentive to get up in the morning> > Allison, Portsmouth, England> > I took medication for depression for years and when I got my dogs (2 small rescues) I started to feel better. The routine of getting up every day to take care of them helps me maintain a good physical schedule. I can't say enough about the enthusiastic greeting I get every morning. > > JC, New York, US> > I don't suffer from depression, but when I need a cheering up, my two cats are always there for me. I've been lucky to have very affectionate kitties and merely petting them when upset comforts and calms me. I support responsible pet ownership, but

not everyone does. Good luck finding the right pet!> > natalya, Chapel Hill, North Carolina, USA> > Pets do help keep depression at bay but as much as we would like them to be, they are not immortal. One of the worst moments of my life was when I lost my dog. Only now, 8 years later, than I am able to think of getting another dog. Remember to treasure them but remember they are not there forever.> > Nadia, Hamilton, Bermuda> > When I had cats I kept depression at bay. They are so beautiful, intelligent, sensitive, affectionate and amusing. I've been catless for eight years, and have nothing to counteract the day to day sorrow that often overwhelms me. I plan to move where I can have them again.> > thalassa, quimper, france> > If you get a pet because you suffer from depression and you then recover from your depression, are you still

going to look after and care for the creature?They aren't just for stroking. > Pets have bodily functions.They urinate and defecate and you must clean up.They need to eat and drink regularly> > J Doe, london, > > > > Peter vv> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -----------> Not happy with your email address? > Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at >

Not happy with your email address?

Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at

[Guest guest]

, " Peter Kebbell " <metalscarab

wrote:

>

> Hi Mercedez

>

> > I have never liked the idea of my beloved companions being

> > called " pets " , thats a slave term to me.

>

> Interesting perspective - how so? (As in, why do you perceive it as

a

> synonym for " slave " ?)

>

>

> BB

> Peter

>

 

 

Well I see it as a slave term (Im white) because I see " Pet " as

something that isnt an equal, something that can be put into horrible

breeding program, neglected, etc and the USDA will " inspect " the

area, say they have food, water, and shelter and then seem to not see

the bad bad things about this. Puppy mills are still out there, and I

work at a petstore job who gets their odgs from a broker, and then

she sells them to us. But we sell our Yorkies for $1000, we get them

at %500, how much did this broker get the dog for? Now think about

the less expensive dogs. We get Pembroke Corgies for about $250 and

we raise the price to $550, sometimes $650.. and how much did this

broker get it? No real, licensed breeder, would sell a Yorkie for

less than $500 (if that low) and no one would sell a 8week old corgie

for less than $500... doesnt make sense if you think about it. All

these breeders ar eproduving " pets " .. the breeders dont even have a

say in this matter. And needless to say most of the poor dogs that

come into our store have some sort of problem... anorexia, belemic,

anxiety, depression - you name it. Do I have to say much about the

birds and other animals people dont think much about? Theres so much

abuse to caged animals and Tanked animals.. its not even funny.. and

all for the means of being a " pet " ?

 

I believe animals should be considered more than pets, but

companions, a friend, not a subordinate under ruling.

 

You cant consider a parrot of any kind a pet. Because it KNOWS its

not under ruling. A cat is VERY independent, they grace you with your

presence, they dont need you really, they just only know that you

provide food. Dogs seem to be the only species that knows how to be

submissive, but even they shouldnt be a pet that is just there, to be

loved for a time until its pack can no longer take care of it.

 

I dont know.. maybe Im just weird, perhaps Im not the greatest at

explaining what I mean, but this is just how I see it. Theres just

too much abuse that goes into these " pets " today...

 

Merecedez

[Guest guest]

Hiya Jo,

 

I think the difference is weather or not someone feels entitled to the

service seeing-eye dogs or if they mostly feel grateful for their

service. I have worked for people who treated me like a commodity and

people who treated me like someone who's choices, time and life

mattered. Wow what a difference. I had to do pretty much the exact

same tasks for similar pay but in one scenario I felt horrible and the

other I felt inspired.

 

Maggie

 

 

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 3:04 AM, heartwerk <jo.heartwork wrote:

 

>

> I have a blind sister-in-law who has guide dogs - does the average

> vegan consider this to be wrong? The dogs do work hard, but they are

> usually very much loved too.

>

> Jo

[Guest guest]

According to the dog whisperer dogs are pack animals and most of them are happier being submissive and not the pack leader - it makes life easier for them., Presumably the same applies if they are in a human pack just as much as if they are in a dog pack.

 

Jo

 

-

Mercedez

Monday, July 21, 2008 2:16 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

, "Peter Kebbell" <metalscarab wrote:>> Hi Mercedez> > > I have never liked the idea of my beloved companions being> > called "pets", thats a slave term to me.> > Interesting perspective - how so? (As in, why do you perceive it as a> synonym for "slave"?)> > > BB> Peter>Well I see it as a slave term (Im white) because I see "Pet" as something that isnt an equal, something that can be put into horrible breeding program, neglected, etc and the USDA will "inspect" the area, say they have food, water, and shelter and then seem to not see the bad bad things about this. Puppy mills are still out there, and I work at a petstore job who gets their odgs from a broker, and then she sells them to us. But we sell our Yorkies for $1000, we get them at %500, how much did this broker get the dog for? Now think about the less expensive dogs. We get Pembroke Corgies for about $250 and we raise the price to $550, sometimes $650.. and how much did this broker get it? No real, licensed breeder, would sell a Yorkie for less than $500 (if that low) and no one would sell a 8week old corgie for less than $500... doesnt make sense if you think about it. All these breeders ar eproduving "pets".. the breeders dont even have a say in this matter. And needless to say most of the poor dogs that come into our store have some sort of problem... anorexia, belemic, anxiety, depression - you name it. Do I have to say much about the birds and other animals people dont think much about? Theres so much abuse to caged animals and Tanked animals.. its not even funny.. and all for the means of being a "pet"? I believe animals should be considered more than pets, but companions, a friend, not a subordinate under ruling.You cant consider a parrot of any kind a pet. Because it KNOWS its not under ruling. A cat is VERY independent, they grace you with your presence, they dont need you really, they just only know that you provide food. Dogs seem to be the only species that knows how to be submissive, but even they shouldnt be a pet that is just there, to be loved for a time until its pack can no longer take care of it.I dont know.. maybe Im just weird, perhaps Im not the greatest at explaining what I mean, but this is just how I see it. Theres just too much abuse that goes into these "pets" today...Merecedez

[Guest guest]

Hi Mercedez

 

Interesting response - but still not sure I understand exactly what it is

about the word " pet " that you object to - I completely understand the

objectionable concepts of treating animals as less worthwhile than humans, I

just don't see how that is encompassed by the term " pet " .

 

Let me put it another way - how does the term " pet " when referring to

animals differ from the term " pet " when used between humans as a term of

endearment? How does it differ from the term " wife " , or " son " ? Are these not

all simply names we give to relationships without any baggage attached to

the actual word itself, except what the individual using it chooses to add?

 

I mean, when I get married in two weeks time, should I avoid introducing my

fiance as my " wife " because some husbands abuse their wives?

 

BB

Peter

 

>

>

> Well I see it as a slave term (Im white) because I see " Pet " as

> something that isnt an equal, something that can be put into horrible

> breeding program, neglected, etc and the USDA will " inspect " the

> area, say they have food, water, and shelter and then seem to not see

> the bad bad things about this. Puppy mills are still out there, and I

> work at a petstore job who gets their odgs from a broker, and then

> she sells them to us. But we sell our Yorkies for $1000, we get them

> at %500, how much did this broker get the dog for? Now think about

> the less expensive dogs. We get Pembroke Corgies for about $250 and

> we raise the price to $550, sometimes $650.. and how much did this

> broker get it? No real, licensed breeder, would sell a Yorkie for

> less than $500 (if that low) and no one would sell a 8week old corgie

> for less than $500... doesnt make sense if you think about it. All

> these breeders ar eproduving " pets " .. the breeders dont even have a

> say in this matter. And needless to say most of the poor dogs that

> come into our store have some sort of problem... anorexia, belemic,

> anxiety, depression - you name it. Do I have to say much about the

> birds and other animals people dont think much about? Theres so much

> abuse to caged animals and Tanked animals.. its not even funny.. and

> all for the means of being a " pet " ?

>

> I believe animals should be considered more than pets, but

> companions, a friend, not a subordinate under ruling.

>

> You cant consider a parrot of any kind a pet. Because it KNOWS its

> not under ruling. A cat is VERY independent, they grace you with your

> presence, they dont need you really, they just only know that you

> provide food. Dogs seem to be the only species that knows how to be

> submissive, but even they shouldnt be a pet that is just there, to be

> loved for a time until its pack can no longer take care of it.

>

> I dont know.. maybe Im just weird, perhaps Im not the greatest at

> explaining what I mean, but this is just how I see it. Theres just

> too much abuse that goes into these " pets " today...

>

> Merecedez

>

>

> ---

>

> To send an email to

> -! Groups Links

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wouldnt apply to cats though would it?

 

 

 

Peter vv

 

jo <jo.heartwork Sent: Monday, 21 July, 2008 7:40:48 PMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

According to the dog whisperer dogs are pack animals and most of them are happier being submissive and not the pack leader - it makes life easier for them., Presumably the same applies if they are in a human pack just as much as if they are in a dog pack.

 

Jo

 

-

Mercedez

@gro ups.com

Monday, July 21, 2008 2:16 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

@gro ups.com, "Peter Kebbell" <metalscarab@ ...> wrote:>> Hi Mercedez> > > I have never liked the idea of my beloved companions being> > called "pets", thats a slave term to me.> > Interesting perspective - how so? (As in, why do you perceive it as a> synonym for "slave"?)> > > BB> Peter>Well I see it as a slave term (Im white) because I see "Pet" as something that isnt an equal, something that can be put into horrible breeding program, neglected, etc and the USDA will "inspect" the area, say they have food, water, and shelter and then seem to not see the bad bad things about this. Puppy mills are still out there, and I work at a petstore job who gets their odgs from a broker,

and then she sells them to us. But we sell our Yorkies for $1000, we get them at %500, how much did this broker get the dog for? Now think about the less expensive dogs. We get Pembroke Corgies for about $250 and we raise the price to $550, sometimes $650.. and how much did this broker get it? No real, licensed breeder, would sell a Yorkie for less than $500 (if that low) and no one would sell a 8week old corgie for less than $500... doesnt make sense if you think about it. All these breeders ar eproduving "pets".. the breeders dont even have a say in this matter. And needless to say most of the poor dogs that come into our store have some sort of problem... anorexia, belemic, anxiety, depression - you name it. Do I have to say much about the birds and other animals people dont think much about? Theres so much abuse to caged animals and Tanked animals.. its not even funny.. and all for the means of

being a "pet"? I believe animals should be considered more than pets, but companions, a friend, not a subordinate under ruling.You cant consider a parrot of any kind a pet. Because it KNOWS its not under ruling. A cat is VERY independent, they grace you with your presence, they dont need you really, they just only know that you provide food. Dogs seem to be the only species that knows how to be submissive, but even they shouldnt be a pet that is just there, to be loved for a time until its pack can no longer take care of it.I dont know.. maybe Im just weird, perhaps Im not the greatest at explaining what I mean, but this is just how I see it. Theres just too much abuse that goes into these "pets" today...Merecedez

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[Guest guest]

LOL! I shall definitely call her my daughter-in-law :-)

 

BBJo

 

 

-

Peter

Monday, July 21, 2008 7:56 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

Hi MercedezInteresting response - but still not sure I understand exactly what it isabout the word "pet" that you object to - I completely understand theobjectionable concepts of treating animals as less worthwhile than humans, Ijust don't see how that is encompassed by the term "pet".Let me put it another way - how does the term "pet" when referring toanimals differ from the term "pet" when used between humans as a term ofendearment? How does it differ from the term "wife", or "son"? Are these notall simply names we give to relationships without any baggage attached tothe actual word itself, except what the individual using it chooses to add?I mean, when I get married in two weeks time, should I avoid introducing my fiance as my "wife" because some husbands abuse their wives?BBPeter>>> Well I see it as a slave term (Im white) because I see "Pet" as> something that isnt an equal, something that can be put into horrible> breeding program, neglected, etc and the USDA will "inspect" the> area, say they have food, water, and shelter and then seem to not see> the bad bad things about this. Puppy mills are still out there, and I> work at a petstore job who gets their odgs from a broker, and then> she sells them to us. But we sell our Yorkies for $1000, we get them> at %500, how much did this broker get the dog for? Now think about> the less expensive dogs. We get Pembroke Corgies for about $250 and> we raise the price to $550, sometimes $650.. and how much did this> broker get it? No real, licensed breeder, would sell a Yorkie for> less than $500 (if that low) and no one would sell a 8week old corgie> for less than $500... doesnt make sense if you think about it. All> these breeders ar eproduving "pets".. the breeders dont even have a> say in this matter. And needless to say most of the poor dogs that> come into our store have some sort of problem... anorexia, belemic,> anxiety, depression - you name it. Do I have to say much about the> birds and other animals people dont think much about? Theres so much> abuse to caged animals and Tanked animals.. its not even funny.. and> all for the means of being a "pet"?>> I believe animals should be considered more than pets, but> companions, a friend, not a subordinate under ruling.>> You cant consider a parrot of any kind a pet. Because it KNOWS its> not under ruling. A cat is VERY independent, they grace you with your> presence, they dont need you really, they just only know that you> provide food. Dogs seem to be the only species that knows how to be> submissive, but even they shouldnt be a pet that is just there, to be> loved for a time until its pack can no longer take care of it.>> I dont know.. maybe Im just weird, perhaps Im not the greatest at> explaining what I mean, but this is just how I see it. Theres just> too much abuse that goes into these "pets" today...>> Merecedez>>> --->> To send an email to> -

[Guest guest]

Which just proves that there are nasty people and nice people.

 

Jo

 

 

-

Maggie Vining

Monday, July 21, 2008 5:50 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

Hiya Jo,I think the difference is weather or not someone feels entitled to theservice seeing-eye dogs or if they mostly feel grateful for theirservice. I have worked for people who treated me like a commodity andpeople who treated me like someone who's choices, time and lifemattered. Wow what a difference. I had to do pretty much the exactsame tasks for similar pay but in one scenario I felt horrible and theother I felt inspired.MaggieOn Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 3:04 AM, heartwerk <jo.heartwork > wrote:>> I have a blind sister-in-law who has guide dogs - does the average> vegan consider this to be wrong? The dogs do work hard, but they are> usually very much loved too.>> Jo

[Guest guest]



Cats are not pack animals, are they? Also, I'm not aware that they are used in hospitals etc to help people - much too selfish!

 

Jo

 

 

-

Peter VV

Monday, July 21, 2008 8:07 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

Wouldnt apply to cats though would it?

 

 

Peter vv

 

jo <jo.heartwork > Sent: Monday, 21 July, 2008 7:40:48 PMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

According to the dog whisperer dogs are pack animals and most of them are happier being submissive and not the pack leader - it makes life easier for them., Presumably the same applies if they are in a human pack just as much as if they are in a dog pack.

 

Jo

 

-

Mercedez

@gro ups.com

Monday, July 21, 2008 2:16 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

@gro ups.com, "Peter Kebbell" <metalscarab@ ...> wrote:>> Hi Mercedez> > > I have never liked the idea of my beloved companions being> > called "pets", thats a slave term to me.> > Interesting perspective - how so? (As in, why do you perceive it as a> synonym for "slave"?)> > > BB> Peter>Well I see it as a slave term (Im white) because I see "Pet" as something that isnt an equal, something that can be put into horrible breeding program, neglected, etc and the USDA will "inspect" the area, say they have food, water, and shelter and then seem to not see the bad bad things about this. Puppy mills are still out there, and I work at a petstore job who gets their odgs from a broker, and then she sells them to us. But we sell our Yorkies for $1000, we get them at %500, how much did this broker get the dog for? Now think about the less expensive dogs. We get Pembroke Corgies for about $250 and we raise the price to $550, sometimes $650.. and how much did this broker get it? No real, licensed breeder, would sell a Yorkie for less than $500 (if that low) and no one would sell a 8week old corgie for less than $500... doesnt make sense if you think about it. All these breeders ar eproduving "pets".. the breeders dont even have a say in this matter. And needless to say most of the poor dogs that come into our store have some sort of problem... anorexia, belemic, anxiety, depression - you name it. Do I have to say much about the birds and other animals people dont think much about? Theres so much abuse to caged animals and Tanked animals.. its not even funny.. and all for the means of being a "pet"? I believe animals should be considered more than pets, but companions, a friend, not a subordinate under ruling.You cant consider a parrot of any kind a pet. Because it KNOWS its not under ruling. A cat is VERY independent, they grace you with your presence, they dont need you really, they just only know that you provide food. Dogs seem to be the only species that knows how to be submissive, but even they shouldnt be a pet that is just there, to be loved for a time until its pack can no longer take care of it.I dont know.. maybe Im just weird, perhaps Im not the greatest at explaining what I mean, but this is just how I see it. Theres just too much abuse that goes into these "pets" today...Merecedez

 

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I disagree, I read one article where a cat was introduced to patients at one hospital, and while they are certainly more independant than dogs, I wouldnt call them selfish. As long as they have a full belly, somewhere warm, and a bit of attention when they want it , they can be very affectionate ( a bit like me). I think its a bit of a generalisation to tar the whole feline kindom with the same brush, calling them "too selfish"? Every type of animal consists of individuals, my 3 cats are all completely differntly behaved, an have different personalities/traits...

 

 

 

Peter vv

 

jo <jo.heartwork Sent: Monday, 21 July, 2008 10:17:38 PMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 Cats are not pack animals, are they? Also, I'm not aware that they are used in hospitals etc to help people - much too selfish!

 

Jo

 

 

-

Peter VV

@gro ups.com

Monday, July 21, 2008 8:07 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

 

Wouldnt apply to cats though would it?

 

 

Peter vv

 

jo <jo.heartwork@ gmail.com>@gro ups.comMonday, 21 July, 2008 7:40:48 PMRe: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

According to the dog whisperer dogs are pack animals and most of them are happier being submissive and not the pack leader - it makes life easier for them., Presumably the same applies if they are in a human pack just as much as if they are in a dog pack.

 

Jo

 

-

Mercedez

@gro ups.com

Monday, July 21, 2008 2:16 PM

Re: What do you think about pets as therapy?

 

 

@gro ups.com, "Peter Kebbell" <metalscarab@ ...> wrote:>> Hi Mercedez> > > I have never liked the idea of my beloved companions being> > called "pets", thats a slave term to me.> > Interesting perspective - how so? (As in, why do you perceive it as a> synonym for "slave"?)> > > BB> Peter>Well I see it as a slave term (Im white) because I see "Pet" as something that isnt an equal, something that can be put into horrible breeding program, neglected, etc and the USDA will "inspect" the area, say they have food, water, and shelter and then seem to not see the bad bad things about this. Puppy mills are still out there, and I work at a petstore job who gets their odgs from a broker,

and then she sells them to us. But we sell our Yorkies for $1000, we get them at %500, how much did this broker get the dog for? Now think about the less expensive dogs. We get Pembroke Corgies for about $250 and we raise the price to $550, sometimes $650.. and how much did this broker get it? No real, licensed breeder, would sell a Yorkie for less than $500 (if that low) and no one would sell a 8week old corgie for less than $500... doesnt make sense if you think about it. All these breeders ar eproduving "pets".. the breeders dont even have a say in this matter. And needless to say most of the poor dogs that come into our store have some sort of problem... anorexia, belemic, anxiety, depression - you name it. Do I have to say much about the birds and other animals people dont think much about? Theres so much abuse to caged animals and Tanked animals.. its not even funny.. and all for the means of

being a "pet"? I believe animals should be considered more than pets, but companions, a friend, not a subordinate under ruling.You cant consider a parrot of any kind a pet. Because it KNOWS its not under ruling. A cat is VERY independent, they grace you with your presence, they dont need you really, they just only know that you provide food. Dogs seem to be the only species that knows how to be submissive, but even they shouldnt be a pet that is just there, to be loved for a time until its pack can no longer take care of it.I dont know.. maybe Im just weird, perhaps Im not the greatest at explaining what I mean, but this is just how I see it. Theres just too much abuse that goes into these "pets" today...Merecedez

 

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[Guest guest]

> I think if a pet needs therapy then it would help. Hopefully the

> therapist would also help the person who has the pet to be able to

> make the pet happy.

 

Giggle. I thought you were just making a joke, then I saw your other

post.

 

I actually call my husband and closer friends " my pet " at times. I'd

never thought of it as an inherently bad term. I certainly recognize

that some (most?) people that keep animals do so poorly without

considering the feelings and emotional needs of those animals, but

this can be said of any relationship in which humans engage. Not all

parents are good to their children, or spouses or friends to each

other. I don't think this abuse within a relationship has a bearing

on what the relationship is called, or that changing the name of the

relationship would change the dynamic of that relationship. Hm, how

many times can I say " relationship " in one paragraph? Too much class

today, no brain power left for being articulate at home.

 

Have a lovely evening.

~Faith

[Guest guest]



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