What are you doing tomorrow?

September 12, 2002

of course, let us not forget the pure christian crusaders...

" kill them all, god will know his own "

people suck, religion just gives them a reason to

" nikki_mackovitch " <nikkimack wrote:

>Good Morning Ian!

>

>I agree to some extent, but that does not make it right!

>

>And what I can not possibly fathom is their belief system.

>

>Ala (completely misspelled, sorry), their god will bring them to

>glory if they do this so they did it for their god. Yet these same

>men who took these planes were drinking and looking at nude women the

>night before which is against their religion!

>

>This is something that remains a complete mystery to me!

>

>nikki - also pure as the white driven snow

>HEY! what are you all laughing at?

>

>, Ian McDonald <ian@m...> wrote:

>> Killing thousands of people for the sheer hell of it is not " coming

>back

>> at them " . Although there are big problems with foreign policy (and

>most

>> preventable deaths on 11/9/1 were not in New York), Al-Quaeda did

>what

>> they did not to accomplish a foreign policy goal by force majeure,

>but

>> because they don't like America. And most of the reasons Al-Quaeda

>don't

>> like America aren't actually very valid.

>>

>> (Unlike the reasons why *I* don't like America, which of course are

>pure

>> as the driven snow . ).

>>

>> --

>> Ian McDonald

>>

>> http://www.mcdonald.me.uk/

>

>To send an email to -

>

September 12, 2002

Hi Nikki

> And what I can not possibly fathom is their belief system.

It's called brain-washing, and has very little to do with belief systems!

Western governments run several high-quality brain-washing programmes. The

best known is MK Ultra.

Rather frighteningly, humans can be quite easily programmed to kill

themselves (and others) just by hearing or seeing a programmed " trigger " .

BB

Peter

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September 12, 2002

i just had a long discussion with someone who never heard of ML ultra...

wow..thought everyone knew that one....

fraggle

" Peter " <Snowbow wrote:

>Hi Nikki

>

>> And what I can not possibly fathom is their belief system.

>

>It's called brain-washing, and has very little to do with belief systems!

>Western governments run several high-quality brain-washing programmes. The

>best known is MK Ultra.

>

>Rather frighteningly, humans can be quite easily programmed to kill

>themselves (and others) just by hearing or seeing a programmed " trigger " .

>

>BB

>Peter

>

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>

September 12, 2002

Hi Nikki,

I have to say you spoke a lot sense in your post.

I loved what you wrote at the end " I live in my own little world.

But that's okay... they know me here! How comforting eh!!!

Geraldine

>

> " nikki_mackovitch " <nikkimack@m...> wrote:

>

> >Good Morning Peter!

> >

> >Yer absolutely right! And until we as a people stand up in unity

and

> >do something about it, it will not happen. Politics and money flow

> >too easily together.

> >

> >I think America personally needs to re-write it's Constitution and

> >Bill of Rights. It was written for our founding fathers way of

life

> >which has drastically changed. Unfortunately, I cannot think of

> >anyone I would trust to rewrite it either and I can only imagine

the

> >civil wars that would erupt from the attempt.

> >

> >I had quite an intense conversation yesterday with a very

opinionated

> >friend of mine. He is truly a wonderful person, but has some ideas

> >that turn me stomach. And he says things not really considering

the

> >consequences nor the truth behind them. He told me we (America)

> >should shut our doors and send back all of the immigrants. I said

and

> >where would you go?

> >He said, What do ya mean? I said which country would you proclaim

as

> >yer own, because to send back all the immigrants means only full-

> >blooded Native Americans and Mexicans derived from Spain (Mexico,

> >Texas, CA, NV etc) could stay! Oh no he says, I meant the ones who

> >came over recently. Oh, so this isn;t America anymore? If your

> >bloodline hasn;t been here for at least 50 years you must leave?

> >*sigh*

> >

> >do people realize what they say when the words come out of their

> >mouths?

> >

> >nikki

> >I live in my own little world. But it's okay...they know me here.

> >

> >, " Peter " <Snowbow@b...> wrote:

> >> Hi Nikki

> >>

> >> > Ya know, I'm getting a heck of a lot of flack from people with

the

> >> > pride I have for my country.

> >>

> >> There's nothing wrong with having pride! :-)

> >>

> >> Personally, I think the only major problem with most of the

Western

> >world

> >> (including America) is the people who rule it! The problem is

that

> >it

> >> doesn't help to replace a President or Prime Minister, because

it

> >is not

> >> these people who are really ruling our countries - it is the

> >people " behind

> >> the scenes " who are the problem. As soon as someone looks like

> >becoming a

> >> leader of a country, they are immediately gathered in by the

real

> >powers and

> >> told what they must do.

> >>

> >> The answer to resolving the problems in both America and the UK

> >doesn't

> >> revolve around changing the basic concepts which are the

> >foundations of the

> >> political systems - it revolves around exposing and removing the

> >group who

> >> are orchestrating events to get and keep more and more power.

Once

> >those

> >> people are exposed, the countries would stand a chance of

operating

> >the way

> >> they are meant to!

> >>

> >> BB

> >> Peter

> >>

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> >

September 12, 2002

Nikki

Good thinking!

Jo

> He said, What do ya mean? I said which country would you proclaim as

> yer own, because to send back all the immigrants means only full-

> blooded Native Americans and Mexicans derived from Spain (Mexico,

> Texas, CA, NV etc) could stay!

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September 12, 2002

Hi Nikki

We all need to hope, and there's nothing wrong with dreams either.

Jo

> Tis a long way off, but each day gets easier if we try~!

>

> Hugz & Hope,

>

> nikki

>

> , " Heartwork " <Heartwork@b...> wrote:

> > Hi Nikki

> >

> > I agree that there are good things to find pride in with both our

> countries,

> > and things to be ashamed of.

> >

> > > Thing is, if I am to live here and call it home, it is up to me to

> > > fix it. Me. And for me to sit here and do nothing but trash it

> (not

> > > that you are doing this at all Peter!) and to not try to take

> action,

> > > is being a hypocrit. What good are opinions if they just sit

> there.

> >

> > I agree with this also. We do criticise, but we also attend

> demonstrations,

> > and write letters to leaders, the media etc. to try to add weight

> to the

> > people trying to change things for the better.

> > >

> > > So yes, today I will celebrate the part of the country I love and

> > > everyday I will continue to try and fix what is broken. Maybe if

> > > enough people did that, something will eventually get fixed.

> >

> > There is a chance. I think there is an upsurge, as with the

> > anti-globalisation activists.

> > >

> > > Our government needs to be eradicated, but if everyone only says

> that

> > > and doesn't start working for it, it will never ever happen.

> >

> > That is the trouble, and in the UK if you get rid of one you just

> get

> > another one much the same. But we live in hope (which is very hard

> at

> > times).

> > >

> > > Or, maybe I should just learn to keep my mouth shut! Maybe that

> > > one!

> >

> > No, always say what you believe.

> >

> > BB

> > Jo

> >

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>

September 12, 2002

Hi Ian

LOL - it's governments and big business I don't like - not the general

populous of any country.

Jo

> (Unlike the reasons why *I* don't like America, which of course are pure

> as the driven snow . ).

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September 12, 2002

>

>My favourite, though, is the 16th amendment. For the non-Americans, this is

>the amendment which basically allowed for the setting up of the IRS, and is

>the entire basis of the current US taxation system. It is actually

>unconstitutional as it was only ever ratified by three states!!! Basically,

>the American taxation system is based on almost mafia-like enforcement of a

>law which was never passed!!!

not technically true

it passed with the needed amount, just that many staes ratified it with a change

in punctuation er a change of a word er 3...

i find the story behind the 16th amendment funnier...an income tax law was

passed durin our civil war, then abolished, and afterwards, it came up every few

years...

then, after the robber baron years, the idea of " soaking the rich " was gaining

in the populus..and the democrats introduced an income tax over and over..it was

defeated over and over..then it was introduced, and a bunch of republicans

jumped ship and said they would vote for it...this terrified the republican

leadership, which asked Taft to ask for a constituitional amendment

instead...thinking " hahahah..it will never pass the states " ...

and they went nuts when it was ratified..it passed the senate 77-0 i think..and

most states ratified it, inconsistencies er not...

>

>> Unfortunately, I cannot think of

>> anyone I would trust to rewrite it either and I can only imagine the

>> civil wars that would erupt from the attempt.

>

>I vote for Fraggle! :-)

i accept yer nomination

why vote for the lesser evil! vote fraggle

September 12, 2002

Hi Fraggle

> funny..i don't seem to recall many al queda members being captured

I know they managed to kill one. It was reported on our news in the UK. I

thought that was rather an impressive ration: 20,000 troops, one enemy

soldier taken out. Ironically, they've also managed to kill four British

soldiers - I guess Al Qaeda weren't proving enough of a challenge, so they

decided to help them out.

BB

Peter

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September 12, 2002

Unfortunately it was not reported in the Daily Mail after all

Peaceful protests are hardly considered newsworthy, as is the case

with the animal rights movement too.

Lesley

, " Heartwork " <Heartwork@b...> wrote:

> Hi Lesley

>

> Was your photo in the paper then? I don't buy papers, so wouldn't

have seen

> it, but if there is a photo I will try to look at one tomorrow.

>

> Jo

>

> > > when a photographer took a photo of is, so there might be a

picture

> > of us in the Daily Mail today, if anyone sees it I am the one

> > with the baby.

> >

>

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September 12, 2002

Glad to see some level minded folk out there,that see beyond the

ruling party(mean daddy!)and shadow party(understanding mummy!)facade

that constitute power.

But this is an issue we all have to deal with,we are indocrinated

into a heriarchy from the day we are born,and like children we are

taught to respect our elders(whether they deserve it or not!)this

works on a institutional level as well as a personal level.

Dont question your father;mother knows best(or else?)

Maybe this theory really is a Freudian wet dream!?But there must be a

better way than this!

On the UK front,looking for possible culprits,The Bank of England

have been running this country's economy since the fall of EMU,and

what's Chris Patten up to?sent to Hong Kong after scandal,to hang out

with the Chinese(not really a 'bit' player in the global scheme of

things)and apparently the first British delegate to visit America

after 9/11.Could be nothing!

Ouch!National Security is a real pain!gets in the way of

UNDERSTANDING

Jak %)

September 12, 2002

, " Lesley Dove " <Lesley@v...> wrote:

>

I was on a pro-life protest against

> the use of human embryos for stem cell research

I believe that stem cell research could replace animal

experimentation in some instances. Why would anyone want to prevent

that? Cells can't feel pain.

Cathy

September 12, 2002

well..it was actually to show blair a thing er two..don't even think of stepping

out of line!!!

and you too, pesky red cross!

" Peter " <Snowbow wrote:

>Hi Fraggle

>

>> funny..i don't seem to recall many al queda members being captured

>

>I know they managed to kill one. It was reported on our news in the UK. I

>thought that was rather an impressive ration: 20,000 troops, one enemy

>soldier taken out. Ironically, they've also managed to kill four British

>soldiers - I guess Al Qaeda weren't proving enough of a challenge, so they

>decided to help them out.

>

>BB

>Peter

>

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September 13, 2002

, " cathyjupp " <cj@r...> wrote:

> , " Lesley Dove " <Lesley@v...> wrote:

> >

> I was on a pro-life protest against

> > the use of human embryos for stem cell research

>

> I believe that stem cell research could replace animal

> experimentation in some instances. Why would anyone want to

prevent

> that? Cells can't feel pain.

>

> Cathy

No problem with stem cell research per se, I agree, it's great if

ETHICALLY obtained stem cells can replace animals.

There is no problem getting stem cells without controversy as it is

possible to get adult stem cells, and stem cells can also be obtained

from the cord blood from live births. This stem cell collection which

is totally ethical is already being done in many hospitals. They were

asking about it when I gave birth to Lucy and I was OK with it, but

they had to check if the blood was suitable because of our rhesus

incompatibility, and they never got back to me, so I don't know if

they were able to use ours or not, but in most normal births they

surely can if the mother gives permission.

Stem cells are not people or animals and they can't feel pain, but if

they are obtained from human embryos which are created and destroyed

for research, this is a taking of human life and a form of

vivisection. We are not sure when the unborn human starts to feel

pain, but it is still a human being at the start of life.

We all wore t-shirts with the words FORMER EMBRYO on them, to make

the point that these were tiny human beings who were being killed

here. Even if they were too undeveloped to feel pain, they were each

still a person who was being deprived of their life. Aside from the

pain issue, I believe that is still a loss as we are all valuable.

We all started out as embryos including the thousands of people who

died in the World Trade Centre attack, so there is really no huge

difference between voicing concern against war and terrorism and

doing the same against abortion and embryo experiments.

One of the other pro-lifers I know is considering going vegan because

of my influence I hope he follows through with that or at least

goes veggie. If I can work on pro-lifers to become more consistent

and also respect animal life, I think it's worth me getting involved

for that reason too.

Lesley

September 13, 2002

Theres' only God I could follow is the the plant-food God that wants everyone to live happly,healthly and harmoniously together, all animals and humans alike.Roll on that day!